RDTs/compensation for people affected by SS 'bugfix'?

No matter which way you look at it, the 'bugfix' for Symbiote Supreme is shady. Released only a few hours after the end of the Symbiomancer Event Quest, this change has made Symbiote Supreme a TON less useful than before. Seriously, show me why this ISN'T shady.

I have not been directly affected by this change, but I know at least a couple of people that have. Numbers of people have probably ranked up and awakened this champion, just to have said champion become significantly less effective.

I am just wondering whether Kabam has any intention to provide compensation and/or Rank Down Tickets (specifically for SS) for those affected by this MASSIVE change. I hope you guys do though, cause this shadiness will hurt you a lot (at least in the way of respect from your player-base).

Also, as a recommendation for future instances of similar bugs, I'd say telling us about the bug AS SOON AS YOU FIND IT would make it much easier to trust you. I mean, you didn't even say anything about how broken SS was until that post where you said he was broken and you'd 'fix' him. Being held accountable and being vulnerable are two VERY different things, you know.

P.S. I'm sorry if this sounds accusatory. And I can understand why this could be seen as such. But I really just want to make sure that everybody understands as much as possible about this and avoid the need for posts like these to be made in the future. After all, the best leaders are those who fight for justice, but wish for a world where it is not necessary. And I really wish for a community where we don't need to be pulling you guys up for these shady things.

Comments

Cryptic_Cobra

You are just regurgitating the same thing everyone says every time they “bugfix” a champion. They won’t give you RDT, they never do.

Mathking13

Cryptic_Cobra wrote: »

You are just regurgitating the same thing everyone says every time they “bugfix” a champion. They won’t give you RDT, they never do.

I have merely requested that they tell me THEMSELVES whether or not they plan to compensate players. The more common response to champion changes are more along the lines of demanding compensation/RDTs.
And yes I realise it is unlikely that they will give compensation/RDTs. But I feel like we need to remind Kabam about this sort of issue.

MrBanks

Throughout my time on the forums, I have always been against more RDTs being given out or sold.

This is the first time I want RDTs for those who poured the time, money, and resources into this champion only to have him nerfed to the ground like his opposite, Dr. Strange. Ironic.

It still baffles me that Kabam did this in 2018. I personally believe the community and Kabam have made so much progress in improving our relationship.

But Kabam just took one major step back.

GroundedWisdom

Tickets aren't given for fixes.

MrBanks

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Tickets aren't given for fixes.

This should not be considered a fix, it was way too late. I think when people saw the SS was a good counter to Aegon Kabam had to change things. Nothing about SS before the nerf seemed out of the ordinary as well

GroundedWisdom

Timing has nothing to do with it. Fixes can take place minutes or months after.

EvilEmpire

Honestly they make champs abilities so wordy and confusing you have no way to even tell if it’s working correctly or not. Anyone that spent for GMCs should be going in for full refund right now. I didn’t buy any, don’t have a stake in this but completely unacceptable imo.

MrBanks

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Timing has nothing to do with it. Fixes can take place minutes or months after.

Honestly the timing is irrelevant. The fact that they changed him so much and removed the “bugs” is confusing. Did anyone report these as being even a little bit suspicious? It seems like the “bugs” were Kabams intentions at first. Instead of nerfing him, they should’ve come out and said they made him too powerful and gave players the option to rank him down.

GroundedWisdom

MrBanks wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Timing has nothing to do with it. Fixes can take place minutes or months after.

Honestly the timing is irrelevant. The fact that they changed him so much and removed the “bugs” is confusing. Did anyone report these as being even a little bit suspicious? It seems like the “bugs” were Kabams intentions at first. Instead of nerfing him, they should’ve come out and said they made him too powerful and gave players the option to rank him down.

That's not what happened. They fixed it as soon as it came to their attention. Doesn't matter when they address it. People will still want Tickets. Fix it right away, people call it Bait and Switch. Fix it later on, people complain they invested time and Resources into it. When something is game-altering, it needs to be fixed. That's not a nerf.

rockykoston

I spent units pulling him, spent resources ranking him but I know anything is possible. I'm not even going to hold my breath and I'm not going to spend anything (not even if it's just units that I grinded for).

They have been releasing bugs left and right, who knows what champ is bugged anymore. You called it right, the descriptions are so convoluted and written in embarrassing English that nothing can be ascertained. Back to the grind fellas, nothing to see here.

MrBanks

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

MrBanks wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Timing has nothing to do with it. Fixes can take place minutes or months after.

Honestly the timing is irrelevant. The fact that they changed him so much and removed the “bugs” is confusing. Did anyone report these as being even a little bit suspicious? It seems like the “bugs” were Kabams intentions at first. Instead of nerfing him, they should’ve come out and said they made him too powerful and gave players the option to rank him down.

That's not what happened. They fixed it as soon as it came to their attention. Doesn't matter when they address it. People will still want Tickets. Fix it right away, people call it Bait and Switch. Fix it later on, people complain they invested time and Resources into it. When something is game-altering, it needs to be fixed. That's not a nerf.

They fixed him yesterday. He was the first new champ in october. Are we talking about the same champion? Lol

Kenny292

There were two things they "fixed" with SS. The second one was indeed a bug. It only started after 21.0 dropped and caused him to deal more damage than he should have been with his staggers, as it was dealing extra damage for buffs nullified earlier on the fight as well. However, I do think SS specific RDT's should be given because I do take issue with the first "bug" that was "fixed". They changed his stagger so that when multiple buffs trigger at the same time, only one of them is nullified. This was working as it should have been and was not a bug, but a direct change they decided to make to SS because when asked if this would change how stagger works with champs like Hood and Juggernaut, they said that this change was specific to SS. How is this a bug if they are singling out SS and changing how his stagger works and not how stagger works in general??

GroundedWisdom

Kenny292 wrote: »

There were two things they "fixed" with SS. The second one was indeed a bug. It only started after 21.0 dropped and caused him to deal more damage than he should have been with his staggers, as it was dealing extra damage for buffs nullified earlier on the fight as well. However, I do think SS specific RDT's should be given because I do take issue with the first "bug" that was "fixed". They changed his stagger so that when multiple buffs trigger at the same time, only one of them is nullified. This was working as it should have been and was not a bug, but a direct change they decided to make to SS because when asked if this would change how stagger works with champs like Hood and Juggernaut, they said that this change was specific to SS. How is this a bug if they are singling out SS and changing how his stagger works and not how stagger works in general??

In order to address it with him, that's the only way they could do it without redoing the entire way Stagger functions.

GroundedWisdom

MrBanks wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

MrBanks wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Timing has nothing to do with it. Fixes can take place minutes or months after.

Honestly the timing is irrelevant. The fact that they changed him so much and removed the “bugs” is confusing. Did anyone report these as being even a little bit suspicious? It seems like the “bugs” were Kabams intentions at first. Instead of nerfing him, they should’ve come out and said they made him too powerful and gave players the option to rank him down.

That's not what happened. They fixed it as soon as it came to their attention. Doesn't matter when they address it. People will still want Tickets. Fix it right away, people call it Bait and Switch. Fix it later on, people complain they invested time and Resources into it. When something is game-altering, it needs to be fixed. That's not a nerf.

They fixed him yesterday. He was the first new champ in october. Are we talking about the same champion? Lol

Correct. Things aren't always noticed or fixed the same day they're released.

Kenny292

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Kenny292 wrote: »

There were two things they "fixed" with SS. The second one was indeed a bug. It only started after 21.0 dropped and caused him to deal more damage than he should have been with his staggers, as it was dealing extra damage for buffs nullified earlier on the fight as well. However, I do think SS specific RDT's should be given because I do take issue with the first "bug" that was "fixed". They changed his stagger so that when multiple buffs trigger at the same time, only one of them is nullified. This was working as it should have been and was not a bug, but a direct change they decided to make to SS because when asked if this would change how stagger works with champs like Hood and Juggernaut, they said that this change was specific to SS. How is this a bug if they are singling out SS and changing how his stagger works and not how stagger works in general??

In order to address it with him, that's the only way they could do it without redoing the entire way Stagger functions.

Yes, I understand it may have been something they specifically needed to address with him if they saw it as over powered. What I'm saying is that this wasn't actually a bug, but a change they felt was needed for game balance. The fact that it wasn't a bug, in my opinion, means people deserve a RDT specific to SS.

GroundedWisdom

Kenny292 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Kenny292 wrote: »

There were two things they "fixed" with SS. The second one was indeed a bug. It only started after 21.0 dropped and caused him to deal more damage than he should have been with his staggers, as it was dealing extra damage for buffs nullified earlier on the fight as well. However, I do think SS specific RDT's should be given because I do take issue with the first "bug" that was "fixed". They changed his stagger so that when multiple buffs trigger at the same time, only one of them is nullified. This was working as it should have been and was not a bug, but a direct change they decided to make to SS because when asked if this would change how stagger works with champs like Hood and Juggernaut, they said that this change was specific to SS. How is this a bug if they are singling out SS and changing how his stagger works and not how stagger works in general??

In order to address it with him, that's the only way they could do it without redoing the entire way Stagger functions.

Yes, I understand it may have been something they specifically needed to address with him if they saw it as over powered. What I'm saying is that this wasn't actually a bug, but a change they felt was needed for game balance. The fact that it wasn't a bug, in my opinion, means people deserve a RDT specific to SS.

I think that's a bit of fishing for a loophole. Lol. If something has to be fixed for the balance of the game, that's what has to happen. Same thing happened with GP. I didn't agree with Tickets then either.

unknown

This content has been removed.

unknown

This content has been removed.

GroundedWisdom

FlareDoge wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Tickets aren't given for fixes.

You havent been here since 12.0 then ive got over thirty rank down tickets to show you

I've been here 3 years. So yes.

Cryptic_Cobra

I really don’t see the big deal with champion specific rank downs. It’s a very common thing to do in games.
Take hearthstone for example. If they change ANYTHING about a card in the game, players are all offered the option to sell back that card for full value, for about a week after the change.

I don’t agree that they should give out generics or class based RDT, as that is not what the rank down is meant for. It should be champion specific, and provide a full refund (iso and gold included) to the people they have effected.

Kenny292

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Kenny292 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Kenny292 wrote: »

There were two things they "fixed" with SS. The second one was indeed a bug. It only started after 21.0 dropped and caused him to deal more damage than he should have been with his staggers, as it was dealing extra damage for buffs nullified earlier on the fight as well. However, I do think SS specific RDT's should be given because I do take issue with the first "bug" that was "fixed". They changed his stagger so that when multiple buffs trigger at the same time, only one of them is nullified. This was working as it should have been and was not a bug, but a direct change they decided to make to SS because when asked if this would change how stagger works with champs like Hood and Juggernaut, they said that this change was specific to SS. How is this a bug if they are singling out SS and changing how his stagger works and not how stagger works in general??

In order to address it with him, that's the only way they could do it without redoing the entire way Stagger functions.

Yes, I understand it may have been something they specifically needed to address with him if they saw it as over powered. What I'm saying is that this wasn't actually a bug, but a change they felt was needed for game balance. The fact that it wasn't a bug, in my opinion, means people deserve a RDT specific to SS.

I think that's a bit of fishing for a loophole. Lol. If something has to be fixed for the balance of the game, that's what has to happen. Same thing happened with GP. I didn't agree with Tickets then either.

I don't see how that's fishing for a loophole. I don't think GP's situation is comparable to this. What GP was able to do, that was exploitable. What SS was able to do, yeah it could be overpowered in buff heavy matchups, but I don't see it as what they'd call an exploit. It was working exactly as it was supposed to, as all other staggers work, and wasn't overpowered in very many situations. How were people supposed to expect this kind of change before ranking him up?? Even the Hela situation, that was a bug and the fix was explainable by the way her abilities were worded vs how they were actually working. That's not the case for SS.

Kenny292

Also, I feel like I should say this, but I do not have SS, so I have no bias in wanting people to have a champ specific RDT for him.

Cryptic_Cobra

No bias here as well

unknown

This content has been removed.

rockykoston

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

rockykoston wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Kenny292 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Kenny292 wrote: »

There were two things they "fixed" with SS. The second one was indeed a bug. It only started after 21.0 dropped and caused him to deal more damage than he should have been with his staggers, as it was dealing extra damage for buffs nullified earlier on the fight as well. However, I do think SS specific RDT's should be given because I do take issue with the first "bug" that was "fixed". They changed his stagger so that when multiple buffs trigger at the same time, only one of them is nullified. This was working as it should have been and was not a bug, but a direct change they decided to make to SS because when asked if this would change how stagger works with champs like Hood and Juggernaut, they said that this change was specific to SS. How is this a bug if they are singling out SS and changing how his stagger works and not how stagger works in general??

In order to address it with him, that's the only way they could do it without redoing the entire way Stagger functions.

Yes, I understand it may have been something they specifically needed to address with him if they saw it as over powered. What I'm saying is that this wasn't actually a bug, but a change they felt was needed for game balance. The fact that it wasn't a bug, in my opinion, means people deserve a RDT specific to SS.

I think that's a bit of fishing for a loophole. Lol. If something has to be fixed for the balance of the game, that's what has to happen. Same thing happened with GP. I didn't agree with Tickets then either.

Wow man, your defense just reached another level. First you say it's a bug, then when the guy proves that it is a Nerf, you back up and still defend it.

Are you uncollected yet?

It was a fix. I wasn't going to repeat myself. The OP is getting into semantics and I said it was fishing. It was not a nerf. It was a necessary fix. When something is game-breaking, that's what it is.
What exactly does Uncollected have to do with the conversation? Random.

NEcessary Fix = NErF

Now this is fishing. What the other guy said was legit logic.

If stagger has removed all buffs in past, why should SS stagger be any different. I don't care and I don't mind, but your defense is indefensible.

Kenny292

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

rockykoston wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Kenny292 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Kenny292 wrote: »

There were two things they "fixed" with SS. The second one was indeed a bug. It only started after 21.0 dropped and caused him to deal more damage than he should have been with his staggers, as it was dealing extra damage for buffs nullified earlier on the fight as well. However, I do think SS specific RDT's should be given because I do take issue with the first "bug" that was "fixed". They changed his stagger so that when multiple buffs trigger at the same time, only one of them is nullified. This was working as it should have been and was not a bug, but a direct change they decided to make to SS because when asked if this would change how stagger works with champs like Hood and Juggernaut, they said that this change was specific to SS. How is this a bug if they are singling out SS and changing how his stagger works and not how stagger works in general??

In order to address it with him, that's the only way they could do it without redoing the entire way Stagger functions.

Yes, I understand it may have been something they specifically needed to address with him if they saw it as over powered. What I'm saying is that this wasn't actually a bug, but a change they felt was needed for game balance. The fact that it wasn't a bug, in my opinion, means people deserve a RDT specific to SS.

I think that's a bit of fishing for a loophole. Lol. If something has to be fixed for the balance of the game, that's what has to happen. Same thing happened with GP. I didn't agree with Tickets then either.

Wow man, your defense just reached another level. First you say it's a bug, then when the guy proves that it is a Nerf, you back up and still defend it.

Are you uncollected yet?

It was a fix. I wasn't going to repeat myself. The OP is getting into semantics and I said it was fishing. It was not a nerf. It was a necessary fix. When something is game-breaking, that's what it is.
What exactly does Uncollected have to do with the conversation? Random.

It wasn't really game breaking. It was only in very buff heavy situations. How was it not a nerf if nothing in his abilities say that his stagger should work differently than any other champs' stagger?

GroundedWisdom

It was a bug. Indicated as such by the annoucnement. Hence, not what they had intended to happen. In fact, they specified that alone, the bugs were OP, but combined, they were game-breaking. Not hard to see the truth in that when you look at the potential for that. It was a bug.
Honestly, the demand for Tickets is so immedate and habitual now that people ask first and jusitfy after.

Nojokejaym

kabam is making a great game, but i understand were yall are coming from it isnt fair that stagger works different for one character, if they're gonna do this to him they should do it to alll stagger . I dont have him but i understand

Mathking13

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

It was a bug. Indicated as such by the annoucnement. Hence, not what they had intended to happen. In fact, they specified that alone, the bugs were OP, but combined, they were game-breaking. Not hard to see the truth in that when you look at the potential for that. It was a bug.
Honestly, the demand for Tickets is so immedate and habitual now that people ask first and jusitfy after.

I do not deny the possibility that these things were legitimate bugs compared to money exploitation tactics. However the reasoning behind people requesting that Kabam give SS-specific RDTs is not because it 'definitely was an exploitation tactic'. It's because SS is now no longer NEARLY as good as he was beforehand, and given that people ranked up SS in his previous form, people may no longer want that character ranked up.

EvilEmpire

Not nearly enough respect is show for the small fortune guys spend to get the new champs, you can’t just nerf something a few weeks after it’s released, it’s just robbery. You would think after going thru this time and time again they would have devised a fair system for the endless screw ups they make.