What takes Priority- Signature, Passive, Ability, OR SP Attack?!

This gets confusing. If ANY champion can be poisioned by AA, because of his Signature, does this mean it is first on the list of “Cannot be affected by Opponents Ability Acccuary Reduction”

If so, what is second?

Passive: “Cannot be affected 100%”

Built into an ability: (I.e. Mordo Astral Reverse Stun -100%)

Triggered by Special: (I.e. Concusion or Disorent)

Or triggered by an ability?? -Neurotoxin, Taskmaster stacking Resistance?? Or Blades Danger Sense Vs. Mephisto Soul Imprisonment??





Comments

  • Poison immune champs can't be poisoned by AA. His signature doesn't allow him to do that.

    The other stuff I just don't getwhat you are trying to say. Is a little confusing
  • BeginthEndBeginthEnd Posts: 327
    I will have to take a Screenshot to prove you wrong here right? Give me one minute LOL

    @will-o-wisp
  • BeginthEndBeginthEnd Posts: 327
    edited December 2018
    Back to topic please.

    Does anyone know what order takes precedence??
  • KattohSKattohS Posts: 549 ★★
    RNG takes precedence over everything.
  • Kushstar420Kushstar420 Posts: 192
    not sure what your question is tbh?
  • BeginthEndBeginthEnd Posts: 327
    AA gains the ability to negate all champions Ability Accuary Reduction Abilities.

    However, say another champion has a passive ability that bypasses any champions ability to negate their ability”

    Yet another champion may have Special Attack that causes which lowers Offensive or Defensive Ability Accuracy by 100% for a period of time.

    Now, imagine any two of these champions facing off against one another. Which activated, passive, or special ability bypasses the other.

    MIND BLOWN: Identical Champions facing one another.
  • Kushstar420Kushstar420 Posts: 192
    AA can not get his ability reduced by anyone. if they try it will say immune in grey/gray
  • BeginthEnd wrote: »
    AA gains the ability to negate all champions Ability Accuary Reduction Abilities.

    However, say another champion has a passive ability that bypasses any champions ability to negate their ability”

    Yet another champion may have Special Attack that causes which lowers Offensive or Defensive Ability Accuracy by 100% for a period of time.

    Now, imagine any two of these champions facing off against one another. Which activated, passive, or special ability bypasses the other.

    MIND BLOWN: Identical Champions facing one another.

    The general answer is: it depends. The text descriptions of the abilities are just that: text that a human wrote based on their understanding of the effect. But all game effects have a "true" mechanical implementation that determines this. Sometimes there are hints in the precise wording of the descriptions (and sometimes not, because the people who write these are incredibly fallible).

    However, in your example the answer is pretty simple. If you have a champion that applies an AA reduction with an attack, that AA reduction would have no effect on Archangel.

    I think you might be confused into thinking that if a champion is poison immune they are somehow reducing the chance to inflict poison. But immunity is not an ability accuracy reduction. The poison triggers, but the target is simply immune to the effect.

    The actual mechanics of the game are complex, and sometimes describing them in anything but non-technical and imprecise ways hides the true mechanics. For example, when you say "say another champion has a passive ability that bypasses any champions ability to negate their ability" that is too vague to really answer technically. That isn't possible in game implementation terms. First of all, if a champion has a passive ability, that passive ability affects *them* not the target. It can ignore resistances and other effects that the champion might have to reduce or overcome those effects. But when a passive ability affects the enemy, it doesn't just "do that." It generally has to apply a debuff. The debuff itself can be active or passive, and that determines what actually happens. Of course there are always exceptions, but to really understand what happens in the corner cases requires knowledge of the actual implementation (or a lot of testing). There's no general rule that works everywhere (mostly because as the game developers add effects, they can sometimes change the rules).
  • HaminHamin Posts: 2,446 ★★★★★
    This is a vast and broad question.

    It depends on the champ.
  • You guys keep playing three dimensional chess.

    Anyway, Happy New Year!
  • HaminHamin Posts: 2,446 ★★★★★
    Mitchell35 wrote: »
    You guys keep playing three dimensional chess.

    Anyway, Happy New Year!

    Chess is 3D on a 2D field just like MCoC.

    Unless you're playing digital chess, then it's usually 2D on 2D.

    Just saying.
  • BeginthEndBeginthEnd Posts: 327
    Wait a minute here. Unless my life has been some kind of twisted reality from the twilight zone... We do percecive things in a three dimensional perspective right? I mean sure, you can look REALLY REALLY close through the Hubble Telescopes new lens and make out faint “textures” which resemble small overlapping layers of light radiation, very similar to an X-Ray. Only it emanates from extreme gravitational forces that tear through space time at the speed of energy times mass condensed squared! That’s ala super massive black hole sun. For the first time we can see beyond our three dimensional box and catch a glimpse at the fourth dimension....

    but that’s not really here nor there sir. Nah, three deminsios of chess or checkers is enough for me. I would like to play this game in a VR setting on my HTC Vive though. That would blow my 2d phone away. And be much healthier and competitive. Espically if among other “real” superhero’s right?! I could even help design it.. there’s an idea. Run with that Kabam- there’s $ome real$ money$
  • MbizzMbizz Posts: 215 ★★
    BeginthEnd wrote: »
    Wait a minute here. Unless my life has been some kind of twisted reality from the twilight zone... We do percecive things in a three dimensional perspective right? I mean sure, you can look REALLY REALLY close through the Hubble Telescopes new lens and make out faint “textures” which resemble small overlapping layers of light radiation, very similar to an X-Ray. Only it emanates from extreme gravitational forces that tear through space time at the speed of energy times mass condensed squared! That’s ala super massive black hole sun. For the first time we can see beyond our three dimensional box and catch a glimpse at the fourth dimension....

    but that’s not really here nor there sir. Nah, three deminsios of chess or checkers is enough for me. I would like to play this game in a VR setting on my HTC Vive though. That would blow my 2d phone away. And be much healthier and competitive. Espically if among other “real” superhero’s right?! I could even help design it.. there’s an idea. Run with that Kabam- there’s $ome real$ money$
    kf2go6vffdtw.gif


  • The1_NuclearOnionThe1_NuclearOnion Posts: 893 ★★★
    BeginthEnd wrote: »
    Wait a minute here. Unless my life has been some kind of twisted reality from the twilight zone... We do percecive things in a three dimensional perspective right? I mean sure, you can look REALLY REALLY close through the Hubble Telescopes new lens and make out faint “textures” which resemble small overlapping layers of light radiation, very similar to an X-Ray. Only it emanates from extreme gravitational forces that tear through space time at the speed of energy times mass condensed squared! That’s ala super massive black hole sun. For the first time we can see beyond our three dimensional box and catch a glimpse at the fourth dimension....

    but that’s not really here nor there sir. Nah, three deminsios of chess or checkers is enough for me. I would like to play this game in a VR setting on my HTC Vive though. That would blow my 2d phone away. And be much healthier and competitive. Espically if among other “real” superhero’s right?! I could even help design it.. there’s an idea. Run with that Kabam- there’s $ome real$ money$

    We see in 2D, we perceive in 3D. That's why it's called depth perception. The double images from the close proximity of our eyes as well as our brain filling in data from shadows and other logical rendering are used to perceive the depth. If we saw in 3D, we would effectively see though things and literally see it's depth.
  • The1_NuclearOnionThe1_NuclearOnion Posts: 893 ★★★
    On topic though, I do think that the OP's example of Mephisto and Blade is interesting.
    Should Blade's danger sense override Mephisto's soul imprisonment, or should Mephisto's soul imprisonment override danger sense while it is active at the beginning of the fight? What logic determines the winner in an ability standoff?
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,237 Guardian
    On topic though, I do think that the OP's example of Mephisto and Blade is interesting.
    Should Blade's danger sense override Mephisto's soul imprisonment, or should Mephisto's soul imprisonment override danger sense while it is active at the beginning of the fight? What logic determines the winner in an ability standoff?

    Neither overrides the other. Mephisto's soul imprisonment takes effect immediately on Blade, and Blade's danger sense is triggered due to fighting a dimensional being. Soul Imprisonment reduces Blade's chance to trigger buffs. But danger sense is not an active buff with an ability accuracy chance, so when Blade's ability accuracy is temporarily reduced to 0% by soul imprisonment that has no effect on Danger Sense.

    In a game mechanical sense, this is what I believe is happening (very oversimplified):

    Blade entering the fight:
    Blade Ability Accuracy: 100% (default)
    Danger Sense ability accuracy: N/A

    Blade at start of fight:
    Blade Ability Accuracy: 0% (debuffed by Soul Imprisonment)
    Danger Sense ability accuracy: still N/A: Danger Sense activates.

    Until Soul Imprisonment wears off, Blade won't be able to activate buffs with an actual chance to activate, such as the dexterity buffs which by default have 100% chance to activate but can be reduced to zero by Soul Imprisonment.
  • The1_NuclearOnionThe1_NuclearOnion Posts: 893 ★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    On topic though, I do think that the OP's example of Mephisto and Blade is interesting.
    Should Blade's danger sense override Mephisto's soul imprisonment, or should Mephisto's soul imprisonment override danger sense while it is active at the beginning of the fight? What logic determines the winner in an ability standoff?

    Neither overrides the other. Mephisto's soul imprisonment takes effect immediately on Blade, and Blade's danger sense is triggered due to fighting a dimensional being. Soul Imprisonment reduces Blade's chance to trigger buffs. But danger sense is not an active buff with an ability accuracy chance, so when Blade's ability accuracy is temporarily reduced to 0% by soul imprisonment that has no effect on Danger Sense.

    In a game mechanical sense, this is what I believe is happening (very oversimplified):

    Blade entering the fight:
    Blade Ability Accuracy: 100% (default)
    Danger Sense ability accuracy: N/A

    Blade at start of fight:
    Blade Ability Accuracy: 0% (debuffed by Soul Imprisonment)
    Danger Sense ability accuracy: still N/A: Danger Sense activates.

    Until Soul Imprisonment wears off, Blade won't be able to activate buffs with an actual chance to activate, such as the dexterity buffs which by default have 100% chance to activate but can be reduced to zero by Soul Imprisonment.

    huh. Thanks for that breakdown @DNA3000 . I suppose it does make a bit more sense. Still though, abilities vs buffs vs active vs passive etc. gets a bit confusing. At least for me it does.
  • Maximus_SpankersonMaximus_Spankerson Posts: 447 ★★
    Game is full of confusing, inconsistent and conflicting interactions. It's expected as new content is introduced. Issue is lack of transparency and timely response from Kabam.

    Example: AA neurotin is a combination of poison and bleed. Therefore, this effect cannot be applied to champs who are immune to either -- even from SP3 which applies NT directly. HOWEVER, Infinity War Iron Man SP3 can apply plasma effect to Iceman, who is incinerate immune.


  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,237 Guardian
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    On topic though, I do think that the OP's example of Mephisto and Blade is interesting.
    Should Blade's danger sense override Mephisto's soul imprisonment, or should Mephisto's soul imprisonment override danger sense while it is active at the beginning of the fight? What logic determines the winner in an ability standoff?

    Neither overrides the other. Mephisto's soul imprisonment takes effect immediately on Blade, and Blade's danger sense is triggered due to fighting a dimensional being. Soul Imprisonment reduces Blade's chance to trigger buffs. But danger sense is not an active buff with an ability accuracy chance, so when Blade's ability accuracy is temporarily reduced to 0% by soul imprisonment that has no effect on Danger Sense.

    In a game mechanical sense, this is what I believe is happening (very oversimplified):

    Blade entering the fight:
    Blade Ability Accuracy: 100% (default)
    Danger Sense ability accuracy: N/A

    Blade at start of fight:
    Blade Ability Accuracy: 0% (debuffed by Soul Imprisonment)
    Danger Sense ability accuracy: still N/A: Danger Sense activates.

    Until Soul Imprisonment wears off, Blade won't be able to activate buffs with an actual chance to activate, such as the dexterity buffs which by default have 100% chance to activate but can be reduced to zero by Soul Imprisonment.

    huh. Thanks for that breakdown @DNA3000 . I suppose it does make a bit more sense. Still though, abilities vs buffs vs active vs passive etc. gets a bit confusing. At least for me it does.

    Here's my understanding. An "ability" is more or less what it sounds like. It is the name for a thing in the game that does something. Usually, if it is called an ability it is something that a champion possesses. Technically there are things like node and global buffs that are probably technically abilities but we don't call them that.

    An ability can do one of two things. It can do something that takes effect immediately and "instantaneously" meaning the effect just happens and its over. Damage, for example, generally is delivered as an instantaneous effect. Even damage over time is a series of pulses of damage, each taking effect instantly. Importantly, these effects have no duration. But some effects are temporary and have a duration. When they do, the method for delivering that effect is with what we call buffs and debuffs. There is no game mechanical difference between a buff and a debuff: we call the ones that benefit us a buff and the ones that hurt us (or the opponent) a debuff. Buffs and debuffs have a duration, and during their duration they have some effect: temporarily reduce armor, temporarily reduce damage, or temporarily tick pulses of damage. That kind of thing.

    Buffs and debuffs can be either "active" or "passive." The distinction is technical and sometimes subtle. For reasons that would be tricky to explain fully I believe the distinction has to do primarily with the way the effects interact with resistances and other defensive effects. Consider a champion that has some kind of buff they apply to themselves which is beneficial, but they also have defenses that prevent enemies from applying certain kinds of debuffs. Remember that "buff" and "debuff" are just what we call them, the game treats them all as "buffs." So it is possible for your own defenses to sometimes prevent your own buffs from taking effect in some cases.

    Also, sometimes the game designers need to make a funky effect that the game engine doesn't directly support. But they figure out a way to implement it using buffs and debuffs to "keep track" of the stuff they want the game engine to do for them. You might want a champion to, say, deal double damage every ten hits, so you use a buff to keep track of the count. If that was a buff like any other, Scarlet Witch could nullify it and basically knock it off the champion, breaking their abilities.

    For these and other technical reasons, you sometimes want a buff/debuff to sort of "always work" and "never fail" no matter what else is going on. So the game engine implements a special flag that basically says "leave this buff/debuff alone, don't let other things mess with it." That's basically a passive buff/debuff. The "active" buffs are everything else.

    This "exempt from most but not all the game engine rules" property of passive effects is what causes most of the confusion. That, and the fact that players and developers speak and write colloquially and ambiguously a lot. For example, I don't think there is actually such a thing as a "passive ability." I think there are passive effects (i.e. buffs and debuffs) but I think when the game calls something a "passive ability" they really mean that it is an ability that generates its effects with a passive buff or debuff. That might sound like semantics, but that level of detail is sometimes key to understanding how the game works.

    Caveat: this is my current understanding of the game. If I could corner the game devs for an hour, I would love to get all these questions answered unambiguously and write a guide on mechanics. There's probably at least one oversimplification to the point of being wrong in there somewhere.
  • BeginthEndBeginthEnd Posts: 327
    Very interesting. Tested yesterday. At the time I was more interested in what would happen than I was in taking a screenshot, wish I had though.

    Blade Vs Mephisto: The unstoppable force meets unbreakabke object. In the very beginning of the match, I noticed both “Danger Sense” light up immediately, just as quickly as I saw the small black box under Blades health bar, indicating his soul was indeed improsoned. I thought for sure these two forces would not collide in any way, equally bypassing one another until one expires or the fight ended. However, about 7 seconds into the match I noticed Soul Imprisonment timer had just fallen off and blade began to hit much harder, his ability to “shrug it off” must have won over somehow. Don’t ask me how but it happened. Pounded Mephisto back through the mantle of the earth and sent em back to hell with a quickness. That’s not to say it could’ve gone a much different direction had Mephisto fired his SP1 and landed it though. Food for thought.
  • AxeCopFireAxeCopFire Posts: 1,115 ★★★
    Game is full of confusing, inconsistent and conflicting interactions. It's expected as new content is introduced. Issue is lack of transparency and timely response from Kabam.

    Example: AA neurotin is a combination of poison and bleed. Therefore, this effect cannot be applied to champs who are immune to either -- even from SP3 which applies NT directly. HOWEVER, Infinity War Iron Man SP3 can apply plasma effect to Iceman, who is incinerate immune.


    Wrong, Archangel's S3 does not inflict neurotoxin. It inflicts a bleed and a poison which combine into a neurotoxin, unlike Iron Man whose S3 inflicts plasma, not shock and incinerate.
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