Long Post: Red Skull isn't bad. He's actually a mix of The Visions, plus. But he needs three things

First, as always: my usual disclaimer: I'm sorry, because I know some people don't have a ton of patience for it, but my posts tend to run long. I try to cut them short, but because I do a ton of testing -- 30 hours on the Red Skull alone -- and take a lot of notes, I try to make sure I cover as many bases as I can, potential questions people might have.

So: TL: DR version: Red Skull is likely working exactly as intended. While I would love for the DPS to be higher, he is actually a highly effective character IF YOUR GOAL AND PLAY STYLE IS POWER CONTROL. He needs to be awakened and probably a high Signature Level, much like the Visions. His animations are extremely smooth, and he rewards skill -- if you are a master at intercepting, you could very well love this character. If you are not good at intercepting, even if he is awakened, you probably will not enjoy playing this character.

If you're going to continue reading, I'll offer some insights into the character, as well as three things the character could really use to make him a bit more comparable to the utility of the Visions -- and again, it is likely pointless to want more DPS to be added to the character. So, here we go:

Oh, Kabam. It took me about 30 hours to figure it out because I'm dense, but I finally realized what you did there, with the Red Skull. Which is actually hilarious, since I am a Day 1 player of OG Vision and likely have used that character twice as much as any other character in this game.

First, the specs: All testing was done with a 5/50 Red Skull, awakened, Sig Level 26. But most importantly for this discussion, as I noted just above: I've been running a 5/50 OG Vision for years now, and have the AOU version, as well.

If I had my guess -- and this is the part that I found hilarious -- whoever designed Red Skull likely has a spreadsheet for exactly how much power steal/burn the Visions can do, and I wouldn't be surprised if those numbers translate EXACTLY into what Red Skull does.

If you have my sense of humor, it's hilarious -- because I tested Red Skull for hours, trying to figure out why in the world Kabam would release a character with such low DPS, even with some power control.

Then, after popping the L3 in hour 30 of testing and seeing the opponent power bar go to zero but only 3,000 damage, it finally dawned upon me:

HEY, WAIT A MINUTE. THAT'S WHAT THE VISION'S L2 DOES.

And then it all made sense -- and now, if you're following along, it probably does for you, too.

So, here's the thing, folks: Red Skull is a mix of OG Vision and AOU Vision, with slightly different mechanics but the same design philosophy from Kabam: You can either have huge DPS or supreme Power Control...but not both. You cannot have both in one character.

If you play Red Skull well AND he is awakened AND at a high sig level, he likely falls right in between where OG Vision and AOU Vision are, for these reasons:

1. OG Vision has automatic power gain through Synthesis. AOU Vision has power gain through Power Steal. Red Skull is a mix of the two, through design and his awakened ability: You gain an Armor Up when crossing power thresholds; that Armor Up can be used to drain power.

2. You can charge a heavy attack and gain power when the Red Skull is awakened -- at the risk of getting popped in the mouth by the opponent -- but that's where skill is rewarded: If you can heavy intercept consistently, not only can you have a ton of uptime on power gain, you also deal Shock damage on the intercept. Get it? It's not as rapid as OG Vision's Synthesis, where you get a batch of power randomly. but it's also not as slow building as AOU Vision's Power Steal. It's likely right in the middle -- possibly higher at a high sig level, if you are skilled at intercepting.

3. That's fair, to me: You can literally gain power on demand. I don't think any other character has that mechanic in the game -- seriously. Think about it for a second: Loki has continuous power gain when awakened, even more with the Thor Ragnarok synergy, while Hyperion and Mordo, among others, synthesize power at random intervals. With Red Skull, if you're good and confident at intercepting, you have power gain at your disposal at all times, in addition to building it up through your basic attacks.

4. One huge advantage of the Red Skull is that when those Armor Ups are rolling in, this guy is a tank. Absolute tank. If you don't get hit -- and sometimes, even when you do -- you can play this guy almost forever. He's at Iron Man (IW)/Cap (IW) levels of durability.

5. HOWEVER, AND THIS IS A HUGE POINT. AGAIN, A HUGE POINT: The Red Skull's durability, guaranteed stun and shock refresh on L1, and Shock DOT on L2 does NOT, repeat NOT, offset the double immunity of the Visions. It just doesn't. Bleed and Poison immunity is a huge, huge deal.

So, in summation: While I like the Red Skull because I understand the character because I am a longtime OG Vision user, and while I love the design and animations -- this is one of the smoothest characters to fight with in the game -- he is not as good as OG Vision, and he is probably closer to AOU Vision in value, if not function.

But here's where I have three suggestions that can help mitigate that.

Again: Folks have to understand that Red Skull is working as intended. Asking for a DPS buff is pointless -- it's not going to happen. It's just not. The character is effective for what he is designed to be.

But here are three fair-minded suggestions that could help offset the double immunity advantage comparable characters like The Visions have:

1. Red Skull shrugs off debuffs at the cost of one Armor Up.

2. Successful heavy attacks and intercepts are guaranteed critical hits;

3. L1, L2 and L3 have guaranteed Armor Break lasting for 7, 10 and 15 seconds, respectively.

That's it; that would bring the Red Skull right in line with OG Vision's value, in my opinion -- he would be slightly more offensive and defensive, as befitting having a Cosmic Cube at his disposal, but his requirement of being awakened, at a high sig level and the user needing to be skilled keeps a cap on the character.

Thanks for reading, if you made it this far!

Comments

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V1PER1987

Not sure why another essay was concocted about Dorm lol but nice post OP. Thanks for getting to the heart of Red Skull and what he was designed for. I think suggestion 2 and 3 are reasonable buffs for Red Skull. I don’t think suggestion two is, mainly because typically shrugging off debuffs tend to be more of a skill class feature with a little bit from cosmic and one mutant champ. Tech usually focuses on armor, armor break, and power control and I think armor break on Red Skull would be a good buff. It would slightly increase his damage output indirectly as well as giving him a little extra utility against champs like IMIW and Killmonger. He should get a fairly strong armor break. Maybe a heavy armor break for maybe around 1,000 (Thor’s is 2,686 for comparison and he can stack 2). I don’t think that would be completely OP. Great post OP

ESF

Ace_03 wrote: »

ESF wrote: »

First, as always: my usual disclaimer: I'm sorry, because I know some people don't have a ton of patience for it, but my posts tend to run long. I try to cut them short, but because I do a ton of testing -- 30 hours on the Red Skull alone -- and take a lot of notes, I try to make sure I cover as many bases as I can, potential questions people might have.

So: TL: DR version: Red Skull is likely working exactly as intended. While I would love for the DPS to be higher, he is actually a highly effective character IF YOUR GOAL AND PLAY STYLE IS POWER CONTROL. He needs to be awakened and probably a high Signature Level, much like the Visions. His animations are extremely smooth, and he rewards skill -- if you are a master at intercepting, you could very well love this character. If you are not good at intercepting, even if he is awakened, you probably will not enjoy playing this character.

If you're going to continue reading, I'll offer some insights into the character, as well as three things the character could really use to make him a bit more comparable to the utility of the Visions -- and again, it is likely pointless to want more DPS to be added to the character. So, here we go:

Oh, Kabam. It took me about 30 hours to figure it out because I'm dense, but I finally realized what you did there, with the Red Skull. Which is actually hilarious, since I am a Day 1 player of OG Vision and likely have used that character twice as much as any other character in this game.

First, the specs: All testing was done with a 5/50 Red Skull, awakened, Sig Level 26. But most importantly for this discussion, as I noted just above: I've been running a 5/50 OG Vision for years now, and have the AOU version, as well.

If I had my guess -- and this is the part that I found hilarious -- whoever designed Red Skull likely has a spreadsheet for exactly how much power steal/burn the Visions can do, and I wouldn't be surprised if those numbers translate EXACTLY into what Red Skull does.

If you have my sense of humor, it's hilarious -- because I tested Red Skull for hours, trying to figure out why in the world Kabam would release a character with such low DPS, even with some power control.

Then, after popping the L3 in hour 30 of testing and seeing the opponent power bar go to zero but only 3,000 damage, it finally dawned upon me:

HEY, WAIT A MINUTE. THAT'S WHAT THE VISION'S L2 DOES.

And then it all made sense -- and now, if you're following along, it probably does for you, too.

So, here's the thing, folks: Red Skull is a mix of OG Vision and AOU Vision, with slightly different mechanics but the same design philosophy from Kabam: You can either have huge DPS or supreme Power Control...but not both. You cannot have both in one character.

If you play Red Skull well AND he is awakened AND at a high sig level, he likely falls right in between where OG Vision and AOU Vision are, for these reasons:

1. OG Vision has automatic power gain through Synthesis. AOU Vision has power gain through Power Steal. Red Skull is a mix of the two, through design and his awakened ability: You gain an Armor Up when crossing power thresholds; that Armor Up can be used to drain power.

2. You can charge a heavy attack and gain power when the Red Skull is awakened -- at the risk of getting popped in the mouth by the opponent -- but that's where skill is rewarded: If you can heavy intercept consistently, not only can you have a ton of uptime on power gain, you also deal Shock damage on the intercept. Get it? It's not as rapid as OG Vision's Synthesis, where you get a batch of power randomly. but it's also not as slow building as AOU Vision's Power Steal. It's likely right in the middle -- possibly higher at a high sig level, if you are skilled at intercepting.

3. That's fair, to me: You can literally gain power on demand. I don't think any other character has that mechanic in the game -- seriously. Think about it for a second: Loki has continuous power gain when awakened, even more with the Thor Ragnarok synergy, while Hyperion and Mordo, among others, synthesize power at random intervals. With Red Skull, if you're good and confident at intercepting, you have power gain at your disposal at all times, in addition to building it up through your basic attacks.

4. One huge advantage of the Red Skull is that when those Armor Ups are rolling in, this guy is a tank. Absolute tank. If you don't get hit, you can play this guy almost ever -- he's at Iron Man (IW)/Cap (IW) levels of durability.

5. HOWEVER, AND THIS IS A HUGE POINT. AGAIN, A HUGE POINT: The Red Skull's durability, guaranteed stun and shock refresh on L1, and Shock DOT on L2 does NOT, repeat NOT, offset the double immunity of the Visions. It just doesn't. Bleed and Poison immunity is a huge, huge deal.

So, in summation: While I like the Red Skull because I understand the character because I am a longtime OG Vision user, and while I love the design and animations -- this is one of the smoothest characters to fight with in the game -- he is not as good as OG Vision, and he is probably closer to AOU Vision in value, if not function.

But here's where I have two suggestions that can help mitigate that.

Again: Folks have to understand that Red Skull is working as intended. Asking for a DPS buff is pointless -- it's not going to happen. It's just not. The character is effective for what he is designed to be.

But here are two fair-minded suggestions that could help offset the double immunity advantage comparable characters like The Visions have:

1. Red Skull shrugs off debuffs at the cost of one Armor Up.

2. Successful heavy attacks and intercepts are guaranteed critical hits;

3. L1, L2 and L3 have guaranteed Armor Break lasting for 7, 10 and 15 seconds, respectively.

That's it; that would bring the Red Skull right in line with OG Vision's value, in my opinion -- he would be slightly more offensive and defensive, as befitting having a Cosmic Cube at his disposal, but his requirement of being awakened, at a high sig level and skilled keeps a cap on the character.

Thanks for reading, if you made it this far!

Dormammu Description.

Ace: Thanks so much for reading and responding with such detail -- people can say what they want about me, but I like reading detailed stuff like you posted because it helps me to understand how to use these characters to their fullest potential.

I have never been good at Dormmamu because I didn't understand him. But thanks to your post: I get it! And I am grateful for you taking the time!

ZzyzxGuy

I read the whole thing. Thank you for this write up.

ESF

V1PER1987 wrote: »

Not sure why another essay was concocted about Dorm lol but nice post OP. Thanks for getting to the heart of Red Skull and what he was designed for. I think suggestion 2 and 3 are reasonable buffs for Red Skull. I don’t think suggestion two is, mainly because typically shrugging off debuffs tend to be more of a skill class feature with a little bit from cosmic and one mutant champ. Tech usually focuses on armor, armor break, and power control and I think armor break on Red Skull would be a good buff. It would slightly increase his damage output indirectly as well as giving him a little extra utility against champs like IMIW and Killmonger. He should get a fairly strong armor break. Maybe a heavy armor break for maybe around 1,000 (Thor’s is 2,686 for comparison and he can stack 2). I don’t think that would be completely OP. Great post OP

Thanks, Viper -- appreciate your interest in the topic. I was hoping you'd see it; I know you wanted to get another perspective on Red Skull, as well.

Also: Totally understand your point about the buffs; it would be really nice to get any one of them, but definitely I understand what you are saying. Hope we can somehow get the Armor Break and guaranteed crits, even if we don't get the debuffs able to be shrugged off.

ESF

ZzyzxGuy wrote: »

I read the whole thing. Thank you for this write up.

You're welcome! We're all in this together -- it does no good for characters to be released and we don't help each other to understand what they do.

V1PER1987

ESF wrote: »

V1PER1987 wrote: »

Not sure why another essay was concocted about Dorm lol but nice post OP. Thanks for getting to the heart of Red Skull and what he was designed for. I think suggestion 2 and 3 are reasonable buffs for Red Skull. I don’t think suggestion two is, mainly because typically shrugging off debuffs tend to be more of a skill class feature with a little bit from cosmic and one mutant champ. Tech usually focuses on armor, armor break, and power control and I think armor break on Red Skull would be a good buff. It would slightly increase his damage output indirectly as well as giving him a little extra utility against champs like IMIW and Killmonger. He should get a fairly strong armor break. Maybe a heavy armor break for maybe around 1,000 (Thor’s is 2,686 for comparison and he can stack 2). I don’t think that would be completely OP. Great post OP

Thanks, Viper -- appreciate your interest in the topic. I was hoping you'd see it; I know you wanted to get another perspective on Red Skull, as well.

Also: Totally understand your point about the buffs; it would be really nice to get any one of them, but definitely I understand what you are saying. Hope we can somehow get the Armor Break and guaranteed crits, even if we don't get the debuffs able to be shrugged off.

I never went for champs like Wasp, Ghost, or Red Skull because the characters themselves don’t interest me that much. However as champs in the game I do like to learn what I can about them such as their strengths and weaknesses, especially when they’re not popular champs. I really enjoy using underrated champs so if I’m able to pull Red Skull when he’s added it’ll be nice to know his niche. Straightforward champs can tend to be a little boring.

ESF

V1PER1987 wrote: »

ESF wrote: »

V1PER1987 wrote: »

Not sure why another essay was concocted about Dorm lol but nice post OP. Thanks for getting to the heart of Red Skull and what he was designed for. I think suggestion 2 and 3 are reasonable buffs for Red Skull. I don’t think suggestion two is, mainly because typically shrugging off debuffs tend to be more of a skill class feature with a little bit from cosmic and one mutant champ. Tech usually focuses on armor, armor break, and power control and I think armor break on Red Skull would be a good buff. It would slightly increase his damage output indirectly as well as giving him a little extra utility against champs like IMIW and Killmonger. He should get a fairly strong armor break. Maybe a heavy armor break for maybe around 1,000 (Thor’s is 2,686 for comparison and he can stack 2). I don’t think that would be completely OP. Great post OP

Thanks, Viper -- appreciate your interest in the topic. I was hoping you'd see it; I know you wanted to get another perspective on Red Skull, as well.

Also: Totally understand your point about the buffs; it would be really nice to get any one of them, but definitely I understand what you are saying. Hope we can somehow get the Armor Break and guaranteed crits, even if we don't get the debuffs able to be shrugged off.

I never went for champs like Wasp, Ghost, or Red Skull because the characters themselves don’t interest me that much. However as champs in the game I do like to learn what I can about them such as their strengths and weaknesses, especially when they’re not popular champs. I really enjoy using underrated champs so if I’m able to pull Red Skull when he’s added it’ll be nice to know his niche. Straightforward champs can tend to be a little boring.

That's exactly how I feel -- I freely admit that Red Skull won't be for everyone. There are simpler characters in the game, easier characters to play. You probably shouldn't put him on AW defense, though there might be a node combination that I can't think of.

But I think -- repeat, think -- that if you're a skilled player, you might be able to do some Act 5 with him. I had him a 4/40 at the start of testing, took him into 5.1.2, and he survived for two-plus fights. The fights are longer. But he can survive them, especially if you're skilled

V1PER1987

ESF wrote: »

V1PER1987 wrote: »

ESF wrote: »

V1PER1987 wrote: »

Not sure why another essay was concocted about Dorm lol but nice post OP. Thanks for getting to the heart of Red Skull and what he was designed for. I think suggestion 2 and 3 are reasonable buffs for Red Skull. I don’t think suggestion two is, mainly because typically shrugging off debuffs tend to be more of a skill class feature with a little bit from cosmic and one mutant champ. Tech usually focuses on armor, armor break, and power control and I think armor break on Red Skull would be a good buff. It would slightly increase his damage output indirectly as well as giving him a little extra utility against champs like IMIW and Killmonger. He should get a fairly strong armor break. Maybe a heavy armor break for maybe around 1,000 (Thor’s is 2,686 for comparison and he can stack 2). I don’t think that would be completely OP. Great post OP

Thanks, Viper -- appreciate your interest in the topic. I was hoping you'd see it; I know you wanted to get another perspective on Red Skull, as well.

Also: Totally understand your point about the buffs; it would be really nice to get any one of them, but definitely I understand what you are saying. Hope we can somehow get the Armor Break and guaranteed crits, even if we don't get the debuffs able to be shrugged off.

I never went for champs like Wasp, Ghost, or Red Skull because the characters themselves don’t interest me that much. However as champs in the game I do like to learn what I can about them such as their strengths and weaknesses, especially when they’re not popular champs. I really enjoy using underrated champs so if I’m able to pull Red Skull when he’s added it’ll be nice to know his niche. Straightforward champs can tend to be a little boring.

That's exactly how I feel -- I freely admit that Red Skull won't be for everyone. There are simpler characters in the game, easier characters to play. You probably shouldn't put him on AW defense, though there might be a node combination that I can't think of.

But I think -- repeat, think -- that if you're a skilled player, you might be able to do some Act 5 with him. I had him a 4/40 at the start of testing, took him into 5.1.2, and he survived for two-plus fights. The fights are longer. But he can survive them, especially if you're skilled

I might have missed this but out of curiosity how are his base stats? Mainly crit rate and block proficiency.

Savio444

Nice post, I actually like red skull from what I’ve seen so far. Be a while till I’ll actually get to use him though...

ESF

V1PER1987 wrote: »

ESF wrote: »

V1PER1987 wrote: »

ESF wrote: »

V1PER1987 wrote: »

Not sure why another essay was concocted about Dorm lol but nice post OP. Thanks for getting to the heart of Red Skull and what he was designed for. I think suggestion 2 and 3 are reasonable buffs for Red Skull. I don’t think suggestion two is, mainly because typically shrugging off debuffs tend to be more of a skill class feature with a little bit from cosmic and one mutant champ. Tech usually focuses on armor, armor break, and power control and I think armor break on Red Skull would be a good buff. It would slightly increase his damage output indirectly as well as giving him a little extra utility against champs like IMIW and Killmonger. He should get a fairly strong armor break. Maybe a heavy armor break for maybe around 1,000 (Thor’s is 2,686 for comparison and he can stack 2). I don’t think that would be completely OP. Great post OP

Thanks, Viper -- appreciate your interest in the topic. I was hoping you'd see it; I know you wanted to get another perspective on Red Skull, as well.

Also: Totally understand your point about the buffs; it would be really nice to get any one of them, but definitely I understand what you are saying. Hope we can somehow get the Armor Break and guaranteed crits, even if we don't get the debuffs able to be shrugged off.

I never went for champs like Wasp, Ghost, or Red Skull because the characters themselves don’t interest me that much. However as champs in the game I do like to learn what I can about them such as their strengths and weaknesses, especially when they’re not popular champs. I really enjoy using underrated champs so if I’m able to pull Red Skull when he’s added it’ll be nice to know his niche. Straightforward champs can tend to be a little boring.

That's exactly how I feel -- I freely admit that Red Skull won't be for everyone. There are simpler characters in the game, easier characters to play. You probably shouldn't put him on AW defense, though there might be a node combination that I can't think of.

But I think -- repeat, think -- that if you're a skilled player, you might be able to do some Act 5 with him. I had him a 4/40 at the start of testing, took him into 5.1.2, and he survived for two-plus fights. The fights are longer. But he can survive them, especially if you're skilled

I might have missed this but out of curiosity how are his base stats? Mainly crit rate and block proficiency.

Ugh -- sorry. I meant to add that; that stuff is important.

His crit rate and damage are, to be honest, woeful -- that's why I thought the guaranteed crits on intercepts would be useful.

His block proficiency, on the other hand, is staggering. He can take a punch, for sure. But again -- and I know you know this, just stating for the record -- at some point, high block proficiency simply isn't a benefit when you start facing characters with 3,500-plus attack or more.

The base stats, for a 5/50 Red Skull:

1. Crit Rating: 14 percent
2. Crit Damage: 180 percent
3. Armor Rating: 16 percent
4. Block Proficiency: 79 percent

Also: His Prestige is probably one of the best in the game, but probably not the best. He is currently fourth on my list of 5/50 four-stars in Power Index at 6216 at sig level 26. I think he would get past Sentry, but with my build, he can't catch Iron Man (IW) or Blade

V1PER1987

ESF wrote: »

V1PER1987 wrote: »

ESF wrote: »

V1PER1987 wrote: »

ESF wrote: »

V1PER1987 wrote: »

Not sure why another essay was concocted about Dorm lol but nice post OP. Thanks for getting to the heart of Red Skull and what he was designed for. I think suggestion 2 and 3 are reasonable buffs for Red Skull. I don’t think suggestion two is, mainly because typically shrugging off debuffs tend to be more of a skill class feature with a little bit from cosmic and one mutant champ. Tech usually focuses on armor, armor break, and power control and I think armor break on Red Skull would be a good buff. It would slightly increase his damage output indirectly as well as giving him a little extra utility against champs like IMIW and Killmonger. He should get a fairly strong armor break. Maybe a heavy armor break for maybe around 1,000 (Thor’s is 2,686 for comparison and he can stack 2). I don’t think that would be completely OP. Great post OP

Thanks, Viper -- appreciate your interest in the topic. I was hoping you'd see it; I know you wanted to get another perspective on Red Skull, as well.

Also: Totally understand your point about the buffs; it would be really nice to get any one of them, but definitely I understand what you are saying. Hope we can somehow get the Armor Break and guaranteed crits, even if we don't get the debuffs able to be shrugged off.

I never went for champs like Wasp, Ghost, or Red Skull because the characters themselves don’t interest me that much. However as champs in the game I do like to learn what I can about them such as their strengths and weaknesses, especially when they’re not popular champs. I really enjoy using underrated champs so if I’m able to pull Red Skull when he’s added it’ll be nice to know his niche. Straightforward champs can tend to be a little boring.

That's exactly how I feel -- I freely admit that Red Skull won't be for everyone. There are simpler characters in the game, easier characters to play. You probably shouldn't put him on AW defense, though there might be a node combination that I can't think of.

But I think -- repeat, think -- that if you're a skilled player, you might be able to do some Act 5 with him. I had him a 4/40 at the start of testing, took him into 5.1.2, and he survived for two-plus fights. The fights are longer. But he can survive them, especially if you're skilled

I might have missed this but out of curiosity how are his base stats? Mainly crit rate and block proficiency.

Ugh -- sorry. I meant to add that; that stuff is important.

His crit rate and damage are, to be honest, woeful -- that's why I thought the guaranteed crits on intercepts would be useful.

His block proficiency, on the other hand, is staggering. He can take a punch, for sure. But again -- and I know you know this, just stating for the record -- at some point, high block proficiency simply isn't a benefit when you start facing characters with 3,500-plus attack or more.

The base stats, for a 5/50 Red Skull:

1. Crit Rating: 14 percent
2. Crit Damage: 180 percent
3. Armor Rating: 16 percent
4. Block Proficiency: 79 percent

Also: His Prestige is probably one of the best in the game, but probably not the best. He is currently fourth on my list of 5/50 four-stars in Power Index at 6216 at sig level 26. I think he would get past Sentry, but with my build, he can't catch Iron Man (IW) or Blade

Those defensive stats are actually pretty good. My CAIW at 4/40 has 10.8% armor and 75.8% block proficiency so that’s pretty respectable.

His crit rate is still better than Heimdall’s ha.

ESF

Savio444 wrote: »

Nice post, I actually like red skull from what I’ve seen so far. Be a while till I’ll actually get to use him though...

Thanks! He is really fun to fight with -- seriously. He flows amazingly well, as well as any character in the game, IMO.

I know it's hard for some people to move past DPS DPS DPS, but if a person has an open mind about Red Skull, is skilled and gets him awakened, he's not a bad character at all. I play power control style, so I enjoy the character how he is designed and slowly but surely, using Red Skull is making me get better at intercepting

Vita_mortis_88

ESF wrote: »

First, as always: my usual disclaimer: I'm sorry, because I know some people don't have a ton of patience for it, but my posts tend to run long. I try to cut them short, but because I do a ton of testing -- 30 hours on the Red Skull alone -- and take a lot of notes, I try to make sure I cover as many bases as I can, potential questions people might have.

So: TL: DR version: Red Skull is likely working exactly as intended. While I would love for the DPS to be higher, he is actually a highly effective character IF YOUR GOAL AND PLAY STYLE IS POWER CONTROL. He needs to be awakened and probably a high Signature Level, much like the Visions. His animations are extremely smooth, and he rewards skill -- if you are a master at intercepting, you could very well love this character. If you are not good at intercepting, even if he is awakened, you probably will not enjoy playing this character.

If you're going to continue reading, I'll offer some insights into the character, as well as three things the character could really use to make him a bit more comparable to the utility of the Visions -- and again, it is likely pointless to want more DPS to be added to the character. So, here we go:

Oh, Kabam. It took me about 30 hours to figure it out because I'm dense, but I finally realized what you did there, with the Red Skull. Which is actually hilarious, since I am a Day 1 player of OG Vision and likely have used that character twice as much as any other character in this game.

First, the specs: All testing was done with a 5/50 Red Skull, awakened, Sig Level 26. But most importantly for this discussion, as I noted just above: I've been running a 5/50 OG Vision for years now, and have the AOU version, as well.

If I had my guess -- and this is the part that I found hilarious -- whoever designed Red Skull likely has a spreadsheet for exactly how much power steal/burn the Visions can do, and I wouldn't be surprised if those numbers translate EXACTLY into what Red Skull does.

If you have my sense of humor, it's hilarious -- because I tested Red Skull for hours, trying to figure out why in the world Kabam would release a character with such low DPS, even with some power control.

Then, after popping the L3 in hour 30 of testing and seeing the opponent power bar go to zero but only 3,000 damage, it finally dawned upon me:

HEY, WAIT A MINUTE. THAT'S WHAT THE VISION'S L2 DOES.

And then it all made sense -- and now, if you're following along, it probably does for you, too.

So, here's the thing, folks: Red Skull is a mix of OG Vision and AOU Vision, with slightly different mechanics but the same design philosophy from Kabam: You can either have huge DPS or supreme Power Control...but not both. You cannot have both in one character.

If you play Red Skull well AND he is awakened AND at a high sig level, he likely falls right in between where OG Vision and AOU Vision are, for these reasons:

1. OG Vision has automatic power gain through Synthesis. AOU Vision has power gain through Power Steal. Red Skull is a mix of the two, through design and his awakened ability: You gain an Armor Up when crossing power thresholds; that Armor Up can be used to drain power.

2. You can charge a heavy attack and gain power when the Red Skull is awakened -- at the risk of getting popped in the mouth by the opponent -- but that's where skill is rewarded: If you can heavy intercept consistently, not only can you have a ton of uptime on power gain, you also deal Shock damage on the intercept. Get it? It's not as rapid as OG Vision's Synthesis, where you get a batch of power randomly. but it's also not as slow building as AOU Vision's Power Steal. It's likely right in the middle -- possibly higher at a high sig level, if you are skilled at intercepting.

3. That's fair, to me: You can literally gain power on demand. I don't think any other character has that mechanic in the game -- seriously. Think about it for a second: Loki has continuous power gain when awakened, even more with the Thor Ragnarok synergy, while Hyperion and Mordo, among others, synthesize power at random intervals. With Red Skull, if you're good and confident at intercepting, you have power gain at your disposal at all times, in addition to building it up through your basic attacks.

4. One huge advantage of the Red Skull is that when those Armor Ups are rolling in, this guy is a tank. Absolute tank. If you don't get hit -- and sometimes, even when you do -- you can play this guy almost forever. He's at Iron Man (IW)/Cap (IW) levels of durability.

5. HOWEVER, AND THIS IS A HUGE POINT. AGAIN, A HUGE POINT: The Red Skull's durability, guaranteed stun and shock refresh on L1, and Shock DOT on L2 does NOT, repeat NOT, offset the double immunity of the Visions. It just doesn't. Bleed and Poison immunity is a huge, huge deal.

So, in summation: While I like the Red Skull because I understand the character because I am a longtime OG Vision user, and while I love the design and animations -- this is one of the smoothest characters to fight with in the game -- he is not as good as OG Vision, and he is probably closer to AOU Vision in value, if not function.

But here's where I have three suggestions that can help mitigate that.

Again: Folks have to understand that Red Skull is working as intended. Asking for a DPS buff is pointless -- it's not going to happen. It's just not. The character is effective for what he is designed to be.

But here are three fair-minded suggestions that could help offset the double immunity advantage comparable characters like The Visions have:

1. Red Skull shrugs off debuffs at the cost of one Armor Up.

2. Successful heavy attacks and intercepts are guaranteed critical hits;

3. L1, L2 and L3 have guaranteed Armor Break lasting for 7, 10 and 15 seconds, respectively.

That's it; that would bring the Red Skull right in line with OG Vision's value, in my opinion -- he would be slightly more offensive and defensive, as befitting having a Cosmic Cube at his disposal, but his requirement of being awakened, at a high sig level and the user needing to be skilled keeps a cap on the character.

Thanks for reading, if you made it this far!

I do agree with all of this however i don't think he's necessarily only good for players who are proficient at intercepting... i personally love using a parry / heavy strategy with him especially with the benefits he gains from his heavy. Something noteworthy and supportive of this fact is that while an opponent is stunned redskull inflicts a heal block when making contact with a heavy attack and with his high block proficiency he takes little chip damage overall and counters with power drain and damage in accordance with armor stacks. If used this way while duped redskull actually posesses a great deal of value. Just my opinion and a different take on playstyle.

Magrailothos

Nice post @ESF.

Your usual insightful self. I agree, he's intended as a power control champion. I could generate a similar argument to this about Civil Warrior, by the way - another hugely underappreciated power control champion with great durability.

Whilst he's not an amazing champ, I do like Red Skull's design; which really references the advanced WW2 tech from the first Captain America movie. I find his SP3 slightly disconcerting, mind you; especially when used against a female champion like Magik.

Just as an addition tip for anyone else who gets this far down the thread: Red Skull's synergy with Omega Red fits beautifully with his Awakened ability:

Awakened ability - generate power when charging Heavy.

Synergy with OR: when charging Heavy (below 1 bar of power), go Unstoppable and auto-hit anyone who tries to attack you for the first 2 seconds of charging Heavy

I'm unsure if this automatic Heavy attack counts as an intercept for the purposes of Skull's synergy with P2099.

NOOOOOOOOPEEEEE

Wonder when people will realize he's a Domino counter

Lormif

Red skull is so much better than the visions when awakened it is no joke. You have absolute power control, where as the visions allow you mostly power control you do not have anywhere near as much as you do with Red skull. Mainly because you can control your power gain, which allows you to control the power control. In addition to that you take near 0 damage from blocks due to all the armor he gains.

I first learned how to be amazing with him on power gain nodes. On a reduced cost sp node you could keep the opponent at below sp1 levels for the entire fight without being awakened.

ThatGrootGroot

Wonder when people will realize he's a Domino counter

How so?

ThatGrootGroot

Red skull is so much better than the visions when awakened it is no joke. You have absolute power control, where as the visions allow you mostly power control you do not have anywhere near as much as you do with Red skull. Mainly because you can control your power gain, which allows you to control the power control. In addition to that you take near 0 damage from blocks due to all the armor he gains.

I first learned how to be amazing with him on power gain nodes. On a reduced cost sp node you could keep the opponent at below sp1 levels for the entire fight without being awakened.

Interesting perspective. I'd love to hear more on this. I have a 5* at r1, but have a tech awakening gem that's collecting dust.