4 star deal after restriction [Merged Threads]

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  • DarthPhalDarthPhal Posts: 1,002 ★★★★
    AndiYTDE said:

    DarthPhal said:

    It’s funny because if it had been a 5* deal the reaction would have been “See? Milk the whales!! 🐳 Told you it’s a money grab!! What a slap in the face!!”

    How about not releasing this sort of deals at all until the rage of the community has worn off? They do have these "standard offers" they could show now that would not cause such a rage.
    I’m pretty sure they could have given the community a free 6* crystal and the community would have raged over what they pulled from it. The community doesn’t need a ton of help to find rage.
  • Chris_ThisChris_This Posts: 17
    The fact is this company is purely for profit, not user enjoyment. They could not give two farts about how you feel. Once you understand that and expect it, the better off you will feel in the long run. Poor, poor taste but that is now their norm. No one there plays the game like the rest of us. Hence, they will never understand our point of view, no matter how we articulate it.
  • DarthPhalDarthPhal Posts: 1,002 ★★★★
    AndiYTDE said:

    DarthPhal said:

    AndiYTDE said:

    DarthPhal said:

    It’s funny because if it had been a 5* deal the reaction would have been “See? Milk the whales!! 🐳 Told you it’s a money grab!! What a slap in the face!!”

    How about not releasing this sort of deals at all until the rage of the community has worn off? They do have these "standard offers" they could show now that would not cause such a rage.
    I’m pretty sure they could have given the community a free 6* crystal and the community would have raged over what they pulled from it. The community doesn’t need a ton of help to find rage.
    Yeah, the community would have raged over a free 6* champion (It´s the Internet, so I have to say: This was sarcasm!)... You are comparing a free chance at one of the best champions currently in game with a 150$ offer that does only guarantee something which is useless for the mid-tier to endgame players, and too expensive for beginners. There is no real target audience here
    No, I assure you people would have been crying foul over their 6* Hulkbusters.

    As to the deal, I bet it sold more than you think. The game has a lot of players at a lot of progress points and most of them don’t even read the forums.
  • DarthPhalDarthPhal Posts: 1,002 ★★★★

  • DarthPhalDarthPhal Posts: 1,002 ★★★★
    “There is no real target audience here”.

    “I have not seen anyone who bought one of the rank up deals”

    Are what I read. Your words.
  • DarthPhalDarthPhal Posts: 1,002 ★★★★
    Because your assumption is vastly unlikely. There is a large segment of the player base, most of whom you would not be able to observe anecdotally purchasing the deal because they aren’t in the forums, to whom the deals may have benefited. To assume that none of them pulled the trigger is a far greater leap than to assume that some of them did.

    “This discussion is useless” is making sense though.

    Live long and prosper.
  • Haji_SaabHaji_Saab Posts: 4,166 ★★★★★
    I will never understand the rage about bad deals ... don't buy it?
  • Colinwhitworth69Colinwhitworth69 Posts: 1,952 ★★★★
    In my first year of playing deals like this were enticing. A lot of newer players could use the resources/champs.
  • AceLuffySaboAceLuffySabo Posts: 253 ★★
    Because then you're making it pay to win; horrible idea and, fortunately, I highly doubt this would ever happen.
  • Animejay70Animejay70 Posts: 400 ★★★
    with or without the 4* restrictions (which are ridiculous IMO), this deal is not worth it in today's game. Even for newer players, it'd be better to spend that money on 5* resources.
  • JChanceH9JChanceH9 Posts: 334 ★★
    If 4*s didn’t have a timer on them for everyone regardless of where they’re at in the game, these offers are still overpriced in 2019.
  • IlikeblanketsIlikeblankets Posts: 56
    RaveNN said:

    Next deal will be to max rank a 3* ...

    They did make that offer LOL

  • ThatGrootGrootThatGrootGroot Posts: 427 ★★

    Granted, I will say that the timing is coincidental, but when you're talking about asking Marketing to verify their plans with Design, that's a whole cross-department mess that's not feasible.

    "when you're talking about asking Marketing to verify their plans with Design, that's a whole cross-department mess that's not feasible."

    No, it isn't. I have worked in companies that range from small to Fortune 500 size, mostly from the finance side but involved with Marketing at times. Not as difficult as you're making it out to be.
    Not the same ballpark. Not at all. There are way too many variables involved with Design. They are most certainly working on something at all times, sometimes months in advance, and nothing is certain until it's as optimal as they can get it for release. Marketing operates at a different pace, with different objectives, and different goals. Inevitably, they would be waiting indefinitely at times for Devs to give the "OK", and that would be a financial nightmare. Totally diffetent deadlines.
    I worked for a tech company. I was a data analyst in Marketing and worked very closely with developers as did others in Marketing. Marketing never did anything unless the tech side was ready. If the tech wasn't ready, Marketing slowed down. I think you're in over your head on this one unless you happen to work at Kabam and know the day-to-day operations personally.
    Was the company you worked for designing a game that had contractual obligations with major companies?
    That's an oddly-specific scenario and you're trying to make your point by excluding any other relevant scenarios. It's also irrelevant. Exactly what kind of "contractual obligations" would there be in this case? How does that prove your point that developers and Marketing can't coordinate?
    Financial deadlines. That's what.
    So those "financial deadlines" set what exactly? The date for a 4-star offer that could have easily been replaced by another offer? And these "financial deadlines" make an environment in which devs and Marketing can't coordinate anything?

    I feel like you don't have much to back up your point here. Enlighten us if you do.
    You're missing the point of what I'm saying entirely. They are two different aspects of the game that work independently, for the most part. Offers are set out over time, in advance, with specific finaicial goals in mind. The only thing that really checks in with is balancing the finances and resources. They're not responsible for coinciding that with whatever might offend people in relation to content changes.
    Design is concerned with creating upcoming content. In some cases, it's possible to merge the two, because there are specific deadlines. A Major Motion Picture Release, for example. There's a very specific deadline in that case. It coincides with the release of the Film. Other content has more freedom to be made when they decide, and there's very little definite about that, other than the tentative they set. TL:DR - They don't know until it's ready.

    They're not about to go back and rearrange the Marketing schedule to avoid Offers that people will take personally. Two different wheel houses, and one isn't even related to the other. The Offer isn't even connected to Act 6. Which is why we're constantly reminded that not all Offers will appeal to everyone. It's not for the same demographic.
    What we have is people who are not happy with the news, and are applying whatever comes up to the news they're not happy with. Same thing came up with the Memorandum, which didn't even make sense because it opened FGMSs to people who weren't Uncollected, totally demographic. Yet, because people aren't happy with the gate, it was seen as some kind of ploy. It's just suspicion gaining monentum, when things aren't even related. That's what happens when people claim it's all just for money. They start operating on Confirmation Bias.
    "You're missing the point of what I'm saying entirely."

    As soon as you effectively make a point, let me know.

    If you think this one offer is going to move the needle much on their financials, you're out of touch. Also, when I worked in a Marketing group, it was easy to replace an offer even on short notice. We were even able to adjust one during an offer.
    Just because you worked for another company doesn't mean you know what's feasible for this one.
    Just because you have an internet connection and a keyboard doesn't mean you do.
  • ThatGrootGrootThatGrootGroot Posts: 427 ★★
    Waboba said:

    Drooped2 said:

    It'll be full of fake, exaggerated indignation just like the last one. He's a good actor and marketer, that's for sure.

    He certainly knows how to rile up his fanboys
    "Are you taking the piss, mate?" Honestly, I actually watched the newest "rant he had" after not watching him for a long time. I was actually impressed with some of it...then I remembered who I was listening to. He'll be back buying featured crystals for clicks very soon.
    im not gonna defend him but the guy plays the game for a living. he makes money off the game. he spends money on the game and gets double the money from ad revenue.
    So does Brian Grant and he doesn't have to do these fake outrage videos to get more views. With Seatin's subscribers, he could go play another game and still do fine. I've seen people in his video comments say they stopped playing MCOC long ago but they keep coming back for him. At this point, it's more about him and his persona.
    "He spends money on the game and gets double the money from ad rev"
    " so does bg"
    Was just mentioning bg, by the fact that he doesn't spend.
    You're not making a point here. Give up. I responded to the comment "the guy plays the game for a living" with "So does Brian Grant". Is your reading comprehension that bad?
  • ThatGrootGrootThatGrootGroot Posts: 427 ★★
    ctp1223 said:

    Netmarble is the company that owns Kabam and MCOC now. They're a publicly-traded South Korean company. I took a look at their Q4 2018 results. I wish it was more detailed, but they give a pretty good breakdown.

    Currently, MCOC makes up 18% of their revenue. This has steadily increased since the acquisition. In Q2 2017, the game was 13%. The increase could be for a couple reasons: MCOC revenue rising, Netmarble total revenue flat or falling, or a combination of the two.

    Looks like it's more a product of Netmarble's total revenue falling. They're also less profitable than they used to be. Ultimately, it's looking more and more like the company needs MCOC to thrive, so expect increased monetization going forward.



    https://sgimage.netmarble.com/images/netmarble/nmOfficial/20190213/9t3k1550039675981.pdf

    your credentials/experience?

    I don't have relevant work experience (I literally just finished school) but your explanation here is lacking a lot of detail
    I have worked in the investment management and financial analysis industry for over 15 years. I've managed hundreds of millions of dollars in investment portfolios.

    I'm not going to educate you on reading a VERY self-explanatory chart. Revenue is going down. MCOC makes up a larger portion of their revenue. It's not "lacking a lot of detail". The point is very simple.
  • ThatGrootGrootThatGrootGroot Posts: 427 ★★
    DNA3000 said:

    ctp1223 said:

    Netmarble is the company that owns Kabam and MCOC now. They're a publicly-traded South Korean company. I took a look at their Q4 2018 results. I wish it was more detailed, but they give a pretty good breakdown.

    Currently, MCOC makes up 18% of their revenue. This has steadily increased since the acquisition. In Q2 2017, the game was 13%. The increase could be for a couple reasons: MCOC revenue rising, Netmarble total revenue flat or falling, or a combination of the two.

    Looks like it's more a product of Netmarble's total revenue falling. They're also less profitable than they used to be. Ultimately, it's looking more and more like the company needs MCOC to thrive, so expect increased monetization going forward.



    https://sgimage.netmarble.com/images/netmarble/nmOfficial/20190213/9t3k1550039675981.pdf

    your credentials/experience?

    I don't have relevant work experience (I literally just finished school) but your explanation here is lacking a lot of detail
    I took at look at this a while ago myself. Netmarble reports overall revenue and percentage revenue for their top titles. You can do some basic arithmetic to find out how much revenue MCOC itself has been earning for the year or so. Since I suspect most of MCOC's revenue is in foreign currency (Netmarble is Korean, so they report all their numbers in Korean Wan) you can estimate currency fluctuations by converting revenue into adjusted dollars using any of a number of internet sites that have currency conversion history.

    Revenue for Netmarble: Q1: 507, Q2: 501, Q3: 526, Q4: 487
    Percentage of revenue for MCOC: Q1: 16% Q2: 15% Q3: 14% Q4: 18%

    This means MCOC generated 81, 75, 74, and 88 billion Won in those quarters. Converting that to USD using currency historical data, that's about $76.7m, $67.4m, $66.2m, and $78.7m in each of those quarters. The differences could be seasonal for the game: they don't follow the overall revenue line for Netmarble as a whole.

    In any case, I'd say that the percentage increase was due to a combination of MCOC making more money in Q4 than average, and Netmarble generating less overall revenue in Q4 from all other properties. MCOC's average revenue per quarter for the 2018 financial year was about 79.5 bn, or about $72.6 million. There's no obvious revenue trend up or down that I can see in the data I reviewed, but there's not a lot of data points available to confirm a trend.
    "In any case, I'd say that the percentage increase was due to a combination of MCOC making more money in Q4 than average, and Netmarble generating less overall revenue in Q4 from all other properties."

    That's the point. Thanks for putting some additional meat on the bones here. YOY, revenue is going the wrong direction for a publicly-traded company.

    The reason I posted that was to show that MCOC is a very important property of Netmarble and has grown in overall share of the revenue.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 6,191 ★★★★★
    edited March 2019
    AndiYTDE said:

    DarthPhal said:

    Because your assumption is vastly unlikely. There is a large segment of the player base, most of whom you would not be able to observe anecdotally purchasing the deal because they aren’t in the forums, to whom the deals may have benefited. To assume that none of them pulled the trigger is a far greater leap than to assume that some of them did.

    “This discussion is useless” is making sense though.

    Live long and prosper.

    Wrong. Mine is just as likely as yours, and nobody can proove theirs true. However: I think Endgame players have not bought it, mid-tier players who are ready for Act 6 have not bought it and beginners have not bought it as it's too expensive for a game they have barely played. Again: Your assumption can be wrong as well.
    Mid tier players aren’t ready for act 6 or they aren’t truly mid tier. The percentage of the player base ready for act 6 is very small. And “too expensive” is meaningless. Too expensive for you isn’t too expensive for everyone. The more I think about it the less I think the whole bad timing thing makes any sense. People interested in Act 6 are upset about the 4* announcement so Kabam can’t make any 4* offers?
  • dononedonone Posts: 23
    DarthPhal said:

    It’s funny because if it had been a 5* deal the reaction would have been “See? Milk the whales!! 🐳 Told you it’s a money grab!! What a slap in the face!!”

    A 5* deal would not have had the same reaction because that where the most players looking to progress in the game to Act 6 have players.

    In fact they should take these offers and make a 5* version.

    A 5* awakening gem and 5* champ by class offer is what us relevant.

    Some player is going to buy these 4* deal without knowing they are already buying a product with end of life date. It is not right.
  • dononedonone Posts: 23

    The fact is this company is purely for profit, not user enjoyment. They could not give two farts about how you feel. Once you understand that and expect it, the better off you will feel in the long run. Poor, poor taste but that is now their norm. No one there plays the game like the rest of us. Hence, they will never understand our point of view, no matter how we articulate it.

    Being out of touch with your customers is how most companies fail in the long term.
  • RapRap Posts: 2,787 ★★★
    Days before this announcement i remarked it was time to lower the number of shards it takes to make a five. I should think after the announcement more of you might see the light! I do not understand why they wouldn't. They would see an increase in unit sales for the purpose of buying their generous shard offers and in the end reducing the number of shards for 5s would be a win-win for everybody here!
  • luksassisluksassis Posts: 21
    edited March 2019
    Lmao
  • luksassisluksassis Posts: 21

    luksassis said:

    Granted, I will say that the timing is coincidental, but when you're talking about asking Marketing to verify their plans with Design, that's a whole cross-department mess that's not feasible.

    "when you're talking about asking Marketing to verify their plans with Design, that's a whole cross-department mess that's not feasible."

    No, it isn't. I have worked in companies that range from small to Fortune 500 size, mostly from the finance side but involved with Marketing at times. Not as difficult as you're making it out to be.
    Not the same ballpark. Not at all. There are way too many variables involved with Design. They are most certainly working on something at all times, sometimes months in advance, and nothing is certain until it's as optimal as they can get it for release. Marketing operates at a different pace, with different objectives, and different goals. Inevitably, they would be waiting indefinitely at times for Devs to give the "OK", and that would be a financial nightmare. Totally diffetent deadlines.
    I worked for a tech company. I was a data analyst in Marketing and worked very closely with developers as did others in Marketing. Marketing never did anything unless the tech side was ready. If the tech wasn't ready, Marketing slowed down. I think you're in over your head on this one unless you happen to work at Kabam and know the day-to-day operations personally.
    Was the company you worked for designing a game that had contractual obligations with major companies?
    That's an oddly-specific scenario and you're trying to make your point by excluding any other relevant scenarios. It's also irrelevant. Exactly what kind of "contractual obligations" would there be in this case? How does that prove your point that developers and Marketing can't coordinate?
    Financial deadlines. That's what.
    So those "financial deadlines" set what exactly? The date for a 4-star offer that could have easily been replaced by another offer? And these "financial deadlines" make an environment in which devs and Marketing can't coordinate anything?

    I feel like you don't have much to back up your point here. Enlighten us if you do.
    You're missing the point of what I'm saying entirely. They are two different aspects of the game that work independently, for the most part. Offers are set out over time, in advance, with specific finaicial goals in mind. The only thing that really checks in with is balancing the finances and resources. They're not responsible for coinciding that with whatever might offend people in relation to content changes.
    Design is concerned with creating upcoming content. In some cases, it's possible to merge the two, because there are specific deadlines. A Major Motion Picture Release, for example. There's a very specific deadline in that case. It coincides with the release of the Film. Other content has more freedom to be made when they decide, and there's very little definite about that, other than the tentative they set. TL:DR - They don't know until it's ready.

    They're not about to go back and rearrange the Marketing schedule to avoid Offers that people will take personally. Two different wheel houses, and one isn't even related to the other. The Offer isn't even connected to Act 6. Which is why we're constantly reminded that not all Offers will appeal to everyone. It's not for the same demographic.
    What we have is people who are not happy with the news, and are applying whatever comes up to the news they're not happy with. Same thing came up with the Memorandum, which didn't even make sense because it opened FGMSs to people who weren't Uncollected, totally demographic. Yet, because people aren't happy with the gate, it was seen as some kind of ploy. It's just suspicion gaining monentum, when things aren't even related. That's what happens when people claim it's all just for money. They start operating on Confirmation Bias.
    I guess, yourself don’t work for Kabam so... and you take it from your experience, so also don’t know how they operate, you know how a similar company operates, so shut up and let them talk for themselves, your insight is useless and only aggravate the situation more than already is... in any company that two sectors don’t talk to each you have large room for blunders like this one, so a company should take more care of it and not take your word for it
    None of us work for them. That's obvious. What I'm operating on is an understanding of the factors involved, and the feedback from them over the course of the last few years. I didn't say they don't talk to each other. I said it's not reasonable to

    luksassis said:

    luksassis said:

    Granted, I will say that the timing is coincidental, but when you're talking about asking Marketing to verify their plans with Design, that's a whole cross-department mess that's not feasible.

    "when you're talking about asking Marketing to verify their plans with Design, that's a whole cross-department mess that's not feasible."

    No, it isn't. I have worked in companies that range from small to Fortune 500 size, mostly from the finance side but involved with Marketing at times. Not as difficult as you're making it out to be.
    Not the same ballpark. Not at all. There are way too many variables involved with Design. They are most certainly working on something at all times, sometimes months in advance, and nothing is certain until it's as optimal as they can get it for release. Marketing operates at a different pace, with different objectives, and different goals. Inevitably, they would be waiting indefinitely at times for Devs to give the "OK", and that would be a financial nightmare. Totally diffetent deadlines.
    I worked for a tech company. I was a data analyst in Marketing and worked very closely with developers as did others in Marketing. Marketing never did anything unless the tech side was ready. If the tech wasn't ready, Marketing slowed down. I think you're in over your head on this one unless you happen to work at Kabam and know the day-to-day operations personally.
    Was the company you worked for designing a game that had contractual obligations with major companies?
    That's an oddly-specific scenario and you're trying to make your point by excluding any other relevant scenarios. It's also irrelevant. Exactly what kind of "contractual obligations" would there be in this case? How does that prove your point that developers and Marketing can't coordinate?
    Financial deadlines. That's what.
    So those "financial deadlines" set what exactly? The date for a 4-star offer that could have easily been replaced by another offer? And these "financial deadlines" make an environment in which devs and Marketing can't coordinate anything?

    I feel like you don't have much to back up your point here. Enlighten us if you do.
    You're missing the point of what I'm saying entirely. They are two different aspects of the game that work independently, for the most part. Offers are set out over time, in advance, with specific finaicial goals in mind. The only thing that really checks in with is balancing the finances and resources. They're not responsible for coinciding that with whatever might offend people in relation to content changes.
    Design is concerned with creating upcoming content. In some cases, it's possible to merge the two, because there are specific deadlines. A Major Motion Picture Release, for example. There's a very specific deadline in that case. It coincides with the release of the Film. Other content has more freedom to be made when they decide, and there's very little definite about that, other than the tentative they set. TL:DR - They don't know until it's ready.

    They're not about to go back and rearrange the Marketing schedule to avoid Offers that people will take personally. Two different wheel houses, and one isn't even related to the other. The Offer isn't even connected to Act 6. Which is why we're constantly reminded that not all Offers will appeal to everyone. It's not for the same demographic.
    What we have is people who are not happy with the news, and are applying whatever comes up to the news they're not happy with. Same thing came up with the Memorandum, which didn't even make sense because it opened FGMSs to people who weren't Uncollected, totally demographic. Yet, because people aren't happy with the gate, it was seen as some kind of ploy. It's just suspicion gaining monentum, when things aren't even related. That's what happens when people claim it's all just for money. They start operating on Confirmation Bias.
    I guess, yourself don’t work for Kabam so... and you take it from your experience, so also don’t know how they operate, you know how a similar company operates, so shut up and let them talk for themselves, your insight is useless and only aggravate the situation more than already is... in any company that two sectors don’t talk to each you have large room for blunders like this one, so a company should take more care of it and not take your word for it
    None of us work for them. That's obvious. What I'm operating on is an understanding of the factors involved, and the feedback from them over the course of the last few years. I didn't say they don't talk to each other. I said it's not reasonable to expect one aspect to delegate its time to assuming what people will and will not take personally, and sync that with what the other side may or may not release.
    People are taking the Offer way too personally and it has nothing to do with the news.
    My point exactly, you are factoring your assumptions of their operation not knowledge of how they do so, players have no access to the company to know that

    People are pissed off about the timing of it, Kabam has gotten heat from Act 6 restriction since it wasn’t announced and there was this offer to come up, you tell me it is impossible to see this backlash coming? Really is it so hard to connect this dots? I mean it... really?

    Come on, for a company that says it is trying to improve on the communication with their most valuable stakeholders it seem like as they say have room for improvement... lots of it
    Impossible? No. Nothing is impossible. However, it's unreasonable to expect the rest of the game to just stop altogether because a portion of the community doesn't like something coming.
    "Sorry, lower and mid-range Players. We can't offer you anything because End-Gamers aren't happy about something that isn't even live yet. We understand this doesn't even pertain to where you're at right now, but that's all that matters in the game.".
    Whatta hell? You didn’t even read anything that I just said and keep saying the same rhetoric, it’s not about the deal itself it’s about timing, as I said in my first post, if it was in two weeks, probably no problem at all... Act 6 would be live and I believe everything would be settle by them

    When did I say for them to never come up with this deal? Those words never came out... but you attack as if I did say that, as I said before as well you are as tone deaf as Kabam dude
  • luksassisluksassis Posts: 21
    donone said:

    The fact is this company is purely for profit, not user enjoyment. They could not give two farts about how you feel. Once you understand that and expect it, the better off you will feel in the long run. Poor, poor taste but that is now their norm. No one there plays the game like the rest of us. Hence, they will never understand our point of view, no matter how we articulate it.

    Being out of touch with your customers is how most companies fail in the long term.
    Thank you, it so good to hear reasonable simple words
  • Kabam LyraKabam Lyra Posts: 2,898 ★★★
    Thank you all for your feedback about these 4-Star offers. We appreciate your input and have shared your concerns with the rest of the team. Since the offers are no longer available, this thread will be closed.
This discussion has been closed.