Gifting Badge Discussion [Merged Threads]

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  • Nov2018Nov2018 Posts: 3
    let me show you another example
    Gift badge cost $30.00 x 200,000 players = 6 M
    Odin pack $150.00 x 10,000 players = 1.5 m, (ok odin pack got nothing to do with this)

    Refund in units ? what you want to do with the units ? what can you do with the units ?
    I am going to walk into Starbucks, drink coffee and pay them in units or walking into Apple store buy earphone and pay them in units. lets see what they will say ..


  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 19,422 ★★★★★
    You bought Units when you bought the Pack. Which you got. Plus the Badge, at no extra cost. Plus, they gave Units on top of the Units you bought and used.
  • Nov2018Nov2018 Posts: 3
    Wrong,,,... it is the other way round.
    Bought the units because of the gift badge
  • Plato92Plato92 Posts: 50
    They did say they plan to bring it back once they find a permanent fix for it so just be glad we got the units for this issue. It could have been a lot worse then this
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 19,422 ★★★★★
    Nov2018 said:

    Wrong,,,... it is the other way round.
    Bought the units because of the gift badge

    Some people buy Baseball Cards for the Gum.
    That doesn't change the fact that the Units were the purchase, not the Badge.

    Price of an Odin w/Badge - $100
    Price of an Odin w/o Badge - $100

  • Vale84Vale84 Posts: 308 ★★★

    Vale84 said:

    “None but maybe 2% of the current player population would be able to afford the full impact of donations+potions+revives+boosts.”

    If that’s the assertion then it’s all good because less than 1% is in that position.

    Furthermore if people are/were riding the backs of fraud and the black market they do not belong in the position they’ve acquired with unfair play; and that position should not now be protected absent their ability to rely on fraud to maintain their status, w/e good riddance, they’ve been stealing from honest players and Kabam.

    Also drop the threats and hyperbole they negate prior assertions of being “reasonable”.


    TL;DR- If you or your alliance relied on the balck market, kick rocks or learn to play the game and manage your resources, you’re done.

    I also like how you completely skip the reasons behind unlocking higher level heals up for farming and just focus on putting me and my ally next to fraudolent units sellers, lmao. So much for a deeper look on the matter. Guess you woke up with the wrong leg.

    PS: actually i think you're drunk, you don't usually write badly on that way. Guess i'll wait you sober up and read properly.
    I ignored the reasons (and entire portions about potions) because higher level health pots and revives are a moot point as they are likely just around the corner thus making their discussion/relevance pointless. I instead focused on the idea put forth that absent the black market and fraud the game is in dire straights because people will actually have to play the game or pay Kabam instead of 3rd parties.

    Proving yourself to be neither resonable nor respectful. So GL with this thread, I’ll be enjoying the laugh.

    Projecting?
    so basically what you're stating is that MAYBE, on a total personal and not provided-with-info base, healing are changing "SOON".

    So basically, you're telling me that lv4 potions soon to become obsolete within 6* rankups will be farmable? Just right before they become the new l3 potions for 2 more years? I am starting to think you argue just for the sake of arguing, but i know you since a while, and tbh, the level and frequency you play the game is probably biasing a TINY bit your opinion.

    I wasnt offending you, just asking if you pheraps were drunk, cause that would have explained both the arrogance you came posting in reply here and the lack of basic reasoning behind your answer pointing me up straight to be "a fraud unit user" along my alliance, which for me was the end before even the beginning, give AGAIN you talk just for the sake of tossing an opinion contrary to what's been discussed.

    Yes, by all means avoid coming back on the topic, as there's no use for random free jumping at someone just cause you're having a bad day, lmao. I m sure you ll enjoy the company of the other 2 golden boys around these forums.

    Whenever i ask myself why a tons of useful insight posts get buried under a flurry of posts asking for compensations and "why do i take dmg when i get hit", i can see how we got there, given the daily efforts you and the other two bring on the table. It's like people infesting this forums too often have managed to lower so much the knowledge level and common sense that unless you post a rant, there won't be any occasion to discuss peacefully. Good for you, enjoy the golden trio status.
  • Vale84Vale84 Posts: 308 ★★★

    Lvl 1 and 2 potions are still relatively useful to me when I have a huge stack expiring in my inventory. I do like the idea of scaling the potions up by title though. Even so, potions can be farmed in rol and by saving the 4 hour crystals, and the venom boss quest in act 4 is a fairly reliable way to farm lvl 1 revives. I also agree on the idea of reducing the price of potions (not revives), because they’re horribly overpriced for their actual value. Even so, a lvl2 revive can top off most champions well enough, so that’s a bit of a moot point besides iceman fights.

    I guess my point is that the system has flaws, but it’s also possible to work within it and still have proper healing resources w/o spending any units.

    I would think you're still at the level where you have to face peculiar champs on aimed nodes. If you take as example iceman as reference, where iceman coldsnap has been widely reduced along his sig as quest encounter, there's many more examples where you ll need a full heal.

    Just on a quick tought, i can name Domino put on a biohazard node, like map 7, where hitting WITHOUT triggering bleed will activate her sig ability and have you spend the whole fight degening for no reason. Dormammu degen is another example, along the mentioned iceman, Havok's ability trigger, block damage, and entire degen, starbust lanes for events and aqs. Bane, Duel, aspect of war, they are all nodes where yeah, you can play peerlessly and come out of it, but you will alwais want to have a champion at least above 60% hp. cause revives are more of a waste than potions.
  • Plato92Plato92 Posts: 50
    All I wanted was units but I got that a while ago I was expecting to be compensated for this issue but I will gladly take what I can get at this point. So please let this issue go maybe after a while we will get it back, but we need to be patient with Kabam and let them find a way to fix it and make it better so for now just move on and be happy you got units for it this time around.
  • winterthurwinterthur Posts: 3,600 ★★★★
    Maybe this will be introduced which will allow trade-up of higher level revive and potion.

    Item Transmutation

    It’s not quite turning lead into gold, but during the Trials you’ll be able to harness your inner alchemist by going to the Featured Tab in the Store and combine certain low value items to create a new higher value one! You’ll be able to combine:

    Level 1 Health Potions into a Level 2 Health Potion
    Level 2 Health Potions into a Level 3 Health Potion
    Level 2 Team Health Potions into a Level 3 Team Health Potion
    Level 1 Revives into a Level 2 Revive
    Level 1 Alliance Health Potions into a Level 2 Alliance Health Potion
    Level 2 Alliance Health Potions into a Level 3 Alliance Health Potion
    Level 1 Alliance Revives into a Level 2 Alliance Revive

    All Transmutations will require 2 of the lower level potion/revive to create the higher level one. For example, you’ll need to combine 2 Level 2 Health Potions to create a Level 3 Health Potion.

  • HulksmasshhHulksmasshh Posts: 742 ★★★

    Nov2018 said:

    Wrong,,,... it is the other way round.
    Bought the units because of the gift badge

    Some people buy Baseball Cards for the Gum.
    That doesn't change the fact that the Units were the purchase, not the Badge.

    Price of an Odin w/Badge - $100
    Price of an Odin w/o Badge - $100

    Given the extraordinary circumstances of fraud, I beliege Kabam made the best decisions in removing the gifting badge and refunding us units. But your argument that the unit package is the same with and without the gifting badge is just awful. It’s like if Kabam released new unit packages that every Odin came with a 6* crystal and a bunch of people bought it then Kabam rescinded their offer and took back everyone’s 6* champs, but left the units. Of course people would be pissed.

    Again, I think Kabam made the best possible choice in a rough situation. But the unit package offer is clearly different with and without the gifting badge. It’s not just a bonus item that can be taken without consequence. Kabam did rectify it (mostly) with the 850 unit refund so that can be closed, but your argument is terrible.
  • Plato92Plato92 Posts: 50
    I understand that this hurts everyone but not everyone is guilty of it so banning a whole alliance when it could have one or two of the members in the alliance that done it, just doesn’t work out so for now just give them time to figure something out for the next time bring it back or reinstate it. But to say that a whole alliance should be banned for it isn’t right, some of them work hard to get those units the hard way instead of cheating in the game. I myself use Apple iTunes to purchase units for this game so does that mean I should have my account banned for it even though I bought it legitimately without using a third party site
  • Plato92Plato92 Posts: 50
    Because that is what some people got in trouble for using a third party site to purchase units or others content in the game so in that case I understand on why those accounts should be banned but other account are just people following the rules and regulations so not a whole team should get the axe but a select few should if found guilty of the fraudulent actions in which Kabam pulled the gifting badge away from everyone.
  • kpkumardtskpkumardts Posts: 82
    ''
  • Vale84Vale84 Posts: 308 ★★★
    edited March 27
    Vale84 said:

    Let me me blunt. This won't be a short post. This wants to be a deeper analysis of the current situation of the game after the removal of gifting. I will start with 2 main points:

    1)WELL DONE. This was a long plague that despite being beneficial to almost all players, was depending on frauds. HAving them coming from couple people wanting a quick buck or being purely money laundering from Asian, European or any other Region, this needed to stop.

    2)At today, there is a ongoing "no spending week" movement. While i do understand the removal of gifts means more issues than goodies for summoners, i can't agree with it. By no means we should support any kind of fraud, and i am referring not to fraud toward kabam, rather fraud moeny being laundered in an online game.

    With that said, there ARE problems arising. And what follows wants to be not a flame, but a reasonable critique to the current system and state of the game from resources perspective.

    As start, let's be honest and brutal: fraud odins and units HAVE SUSTAINED the game for the last years. By no means summoners would be able to compete for higher AQs, or AWs without Donations being dropped, or potions/revives being purchased at lower price. None but maybe 2% of the current player population would be able to afford the full impact of donations+potions+revives+boosts. With this i am not saying this practice was good, but i'm saying, and stating, that it's been the pillar of the MCoC "society", and without it, there wouldn't be enough sustain ingame for summoners to play like they did last years.

    From this, i'm certain that the other side of the medal brought Kabam to record and acquire data on their events which wasn't resembling the true status of the game. With this, i mean having a noticeable lower revenue that probably expected due to people being able to access cheaper units for their accounts. That is a problem for both Kabam and playerbase, as it probably gave Kabam the wrong idea and pushed them towards adding difficulty, weird nodes, and combination of characters or matchups being probably harder than needed to cope up with the unexpected loss of revenue (the so called wallet nodes, bs nodes, and unavoidable dmg nodes).
    On another side, having this "fake" return of data, my guess is Kabam never really thought or felt like overhauling the POTION/REVIVES system. If summoners were able to clear content in a much easier way then predicted (we're still talking buisness and revenue here ofc) why would they need to add further ways of obtaining said resources. Makes sense.
    We are all aware that revives were made "casual" and impossible to farm consistently, if not trough milestones. Among them, only 20% and 40% are obtainable ingame. Same goes for potions, where even random drops from content like VARIANT, ACT 5-6 and similar only nets up to a lv 3 potion. Lv3 potions are the highest tier of heals consistently farmable ingame (RoL mainly), and are by far obsolete with the amount of HP r4 and r5 5* have.


    With that said, i'd like to take a step further into MCoC structure: MCoC is, and will still be, a FREE TO PLAY game with micro transactions to support the developer. There are many many free to play game which arised in popularity in the gaming community (i won't make names). Every single one of them either gets income from selling "looks" or "boosters". meaning they either give players the opportunity to customize accounts or directly sell them "faster account improvement" in forms like better weapons, better resources, and so on.
    In MCoC's case, the second one is the leitmotif, where you purchase micro-transactions in order to boost your account and speed up the process of building it stronger.
    In most of cases, and MCoC is no exception, you sell "TIME". You trade less time spent ingame obtaining those resources in exchange for your money and an istant availability. Which is still in the domain of "fairness".

    But here comes the hurdle: NONE, or very FEW of F2P games not only sell "Boosters", but also "basic items". That's where i feel MCoC is responsible, partially, into fueling up fraud units sellers.
    BY NO MEANS, IN ANY GAME, BASIC ITEMS SHOULD BE BARRICATED BEHIND MICROTRANSACTIONS. And sadly, MCoC is exactly there in terms of HEALING.


    We have a potion and revive system ranging from lv1 to lv5. Both for Revives and Heals. That's already two separated items needed to heal. Of those 2 items:

    REVIVES: Can't be farmed and appear randomly in quests with low cadency. Rewarded in milestones for individual and ally's events. Of those, only LV1 and LV2 are obtainable ingame. Rest can only be purchased through microtransactions.
    POTIONS: Random drops from fights in all content, can be farmed consistently in RoL mainly (time consuming), but only LV1, LV2, and LV3 potions are currently available ingame. LV4 and LV5, both team and single ones, can be only purchased through micro transactions. Lv1-2-3 are by now obsolete and will be even more obsolete with the advent of 6* rankups.

    And this is a very HUGE deal.

    That's exactly the reason why for years the "Black Market" has flourished to those levels. To the point it had to shut down. BASIC ITEMS shouldn't be hidden behind paywalls by no means. But let me rephrase better:

    IT'S FAIR TO SELL BASIC ITEMS IN MICROTRANSACTIONS AS LONG AS THE SAME ITEMS ARE OBTAINABLE INGAME FOR THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF TIME INVESTED.

    That MUST be the main rule. As i said above, microtransactions are purchases of "TIME", allowing you to skip the "farming" and gaining access to ISTANT rewards.

    But what to do when the rewards you can purchase in 1 minute CAN'T be farmed in many hours through ingame content? Players should be rewarded for the time invested ingame being it farming or clearing content. You can't clear content without farming, unless you purchase "boosters" and cut the line, which is fair given you're giving sustain to the developer.
    But that's a one way situation while it should be a two ways one.

    -I will save time purchasing microtransactions for what i need

    or

    -I will not invest money but my time to gain what i need through ingame free drops.

    Putting a CAP, or a BAN, to the level of items being farmable ingame is EXACTLY what made fraud units so abused. If i can't afford 100 bucks for an odin, and there's nothing over lv3 potions to obtain with hours and hours of farming, what should i do, considering what i farm in 10 hours will be ok for 5 fights, given how the content has skyrocketed to new levels as the game progressed?
    Fraud units answered those demands.
    From a certain point of view, Kabam is responsible of what happened. Not factoring in this HUGE thing (no paywalls on basic items, again) has brought the game where it is.

    That is why closing down gifting was and is A GOOD CHOICHE. but it isn't nearly ENOUGH.

    Dear Kabam, i don't have better words to put this in, but right now you're cutting legs to 90% of your playerbase, despite doing the right thing. That's why:

    1) Cap on potions levels MUST be revoked, and you need to create "FARMING SPOTS" of different tiers to allow summoners to trade "TIME" for "ITEMS".
    2) Revives needs to be farmable at a consistent rate, adjusting difficulty of farming spots based on revive levels.
    3) SELLING potions and revives is still ok, as long as you can obtain ingame what you can buy, without bracketing differently.
    4) POTION LEVELS AND REVIVES levels need a COMPLETE OVERHAUL: we're at the point 75% of healing is absolutely useless.
    5) Have potions SCALE UP with titles, whereas progressing through ACT4, 5, and 6 wih the related titles and higher tier of ingame items obtainable potions and revives scale too.

    Else, there gonna be dark days ahead. We all love this game, and the least we want is people boycotting it, or the population getting halved.

    PS: the very same argument can be made for donations. Loyalty, battlechips, Gold all need a better farmability, and that too can be tiered with titles and acts progression up to currently cavalier. a node paying up 100 gold for a act 1 new account runner should net 1000 gold in every content for a cavalier running it, for example. Same goes for grey ISO and anything basic in the game.

    Hoping to have kept my wall of text decent and respectful, i'd like to hear other's opinions as well as the mods point of view.

    Regards.

    @Kabam Miike @Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Vydious @Kabam Lyra @Kabam Porthos

    how convenient to merge my other thread onto this without even the attention into keeping the flux of the convo pristine and mixing in other comments. despite what we were talking about was more a potion overhaul then the need of getting units back for the badge purchases.

    I guess you didn't bother reading the post rather just the title, and it comes very helpful putting everything in a single thread so that main points will get diluted into the costant flame of the golden boys trio.

    If i was against a protest and supported your choiche, i still support the choiche but you aren't gaining simphaty from me trying to blow smoke on every thread remotely inviting you to... move yer back and work on the game to balance it now that gifting is gone. Sometimes i just wonder HOW, how does MCoC make so much money.

    THANKS for the extreme attention to details like alwais. Hopefully you guys don't have pets, or the same level of attention would prove quite bothersome to them.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 19,422 ★★★★★
    edited March 27

    Nov2018 said:

    Wrong,,,... it is the other way round.
    Bought the units because of the gift badge

    Some people buy Baseball Cards for the Gum.
    That doesn't change the fact that the Units were the purchase, not the Badge.

    Price of an Odin w/Badge - $100
    Price of an Odin w/o Badge - $100

    Given the extraordinary circumstances of fraud, I beliege Kabam made the best decisions in removing the gifting badge and refunding us units. But your argument that the unit package is the same with and without the gifting badge is just awful. It’s like if Kabam released new unit packages that every Odin came with a 6* crystal and a bunch of people bought it then Kabam rescinded their offer and took back everyone’s 6* champs, but left the units. Of course people would be pissed.

    Again, I think Kabam made the best possible choice in a rough situation. But the unit package offer is clearly different with and without the gifting badge. It’s not just a bonus item that can be taken without consequence. Kabam did rectify it (mostly) with the 850 unit refund so that can be closed, but your argument is terrible.
    It's different in that you have access to the Feature after making the purchase, yes. The cost of the Offer is the same because people were not in fact, buying the Badge. "Free Gift With Purchase" is incentive that many companies use to make Offers more appealing, but the Offer IS the purchase.
    They gave 300 Units originally, most likely because they knew people would want something, although I can't say that for certain, I wasn't there. Could have been that it was what they valued it at. They added 550 Units because people persisted that 300 was not enough. So, people received the Units they purchased, plus the use of the Badge for the duration it was active, plus an extra 850 Units. It is, and was, a Bonus Item. One that required a minimum one-time purchase to access.
    The Offer is the same price with or without the Badge. That was what was purchased. They went out of their way to make sure people were compensated something, and I respect that. However, from my point of view, people already received what they purchased when they bought the Units. That is not an inherent part of those Offers. It was a Feature that they allowed access to with your first purchase, and people abused it to the point that no one is able to use it now.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 19,422 ★★★★★
    I swear, people argue in packs. LOL.
    Nowhere did Kabam even comment whether it was a Gift or Purchase. They agreed that they could have given more, after people expressed their disappointment with the 300 Units.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 19,422 ★★★★★
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 19,422 ★★★★★
    In the words of The Giant, "Look up! WAAAAAY UP!".
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 19,422 ★★★★★
    You're confusing Compensation with a Refund. Not to mention just arguing semantics with me. I'm bored with it, though. Enjoy your Units.
  • Captain_NietschCaptain_Nietsch Posts: 255

    I agree with the removal of the gifting badge BUT

    In my old alliance we used to help players to clear LOL. We went together and helped a few in the alliance with revives. I have gifted revives to people that are worth more than 2 or 3 odins and now I have no means to recover my expenses. What am I supposed to do in this case? I didn't sell them anything. Just help them and they were supposed to gift the items back once they finish

    The few units received as a compensation are worth nothing and I am left with a taste of d..k in my mouth and every time Kabam is doing changes, I get the same taste....EVERY TIME!

    I have never used to buy items from anyone. I make purchases in the game by legal means and I grind the arenas regularly. Nearly 180k pvp on my own time....

    How are we supposed to help alliance members when they are in trouble in AQ/AW? Nobody is perfect and we all have bad days from time to time. Or we wake up because we need to clear a node in AQ and play in a rush. Everyone knows about this....

    The decision will affect lots of people

    Kabam please think of a way to avoid fraud and bring the badge back or we will lose people. Heck...I might go to a different game too if it continues like that

    That is food for thought.
    Many have probably helped alliance members, like you did, hoping for the alliance mate to be able to return the favor once needed, or as soon as they have the units. There should be some way for players like you to get some of it back. This seems like an unforeseen result from suddenly removing the gifting badge.
    A proper warning and giving players a week to perhaps even out things gifted to one another would have at least helped a bit. Maybe submitting a ticket due to this problem would be good? to let the game team know that you now have this problem due to the gifting badge being removed.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 19,422 ★★★★★
    You literally just did that. Honestly, if you don't like what I say, why do you even bother talking to me? What do you think that will accomplish? Nothing, really. Just arbitrary arguments that fill the Forum which have to be cleaned up by the Mods. Here's a solution, if you don't like me, just scroll on. I'm not going anywhere anytime soon.
  • BajjsbwuqjwBajjsbwuqjw Posts: 523 ★★
    Come on guys

    It was possible to buy odin for 1/2 price and get items as gifts

    That is an exploit of course

    I think we put this exploit on the level as high as own unit selling
  • rafael125rafael125 Posts: 3
    i'm pay badged with money , give me back my REAL MONEY , tired of this game
  • DshuDshu Posts: 964 ★★★
    rafael125 said:

    i'm pay badged with money , give me back my REAL MONEY , tired of this game

    Unfortunately kabam can't do that. The closest they can come is giving you the value in units. While not ideal it is the best they can do since the purchase was actually made through either iTunes or Google play. They stepped up the units for this to make it the equivalent of what most people spent. You can try contacting iTunes or Google play or cut your losses but they have been fair with the compensation and that's what most on this thread have asked for
This discussion has been closed.