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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,913 Guardian
    John757 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    John757 said:

    John757 said:

    War Rating is the metric people are manipulating to take advantage of others, so I think fair went out the window.

    No one is being taken advantage of
    I'm sorry, but I disagree with that.
    Allies are taking Losses to lower their War Rating, so they can ambush weaker Allies for Seasons momentum. The people who are trying to be Matched with reasonable Matches are being taken advantage of. All these people are doing is entering a Match. It is the definition of taking advantage. Only it comes at someone else's expense. You can't climb your way uphill on someone's back and not expect to make footprints.
    If you feel like someone doing something in a video game is taking advantage of someone else I find that sad. There are people who truely get taken advantage of in real life. Choose you’re words carefully
    I personally think there's a lot of grey area when it comes to how people treat off season wars, but almost everyone I know that plays this game plays it in real life. When you harm someone else's game play, you aren't harming meaningless pixels, the harm lands on actual people.
    I’ll make sure to have 911 on speed dial the next time I get harmed by a tanking alliance
    You call 911 whenever you're harmed in real life? Don't they eventually get mad at you for doing that?
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    John757John757 Posts: 1,085 ★★★
    Yes if someone physically and deliberately inflicts an injury on me I would call 911. Nice try
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,913 Guardian
    John757 said:

    Yes if someone physically and deliberately inflicts an injury on me I would call 911. Nice try

    That's not the question I asked. That isn't even close to the question I asked. That sounds like you accidentally quoted me while trying to reply to someone else discussing the topic of trauma triage.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,328 ★★★★★
    So you only consider harm as physical? Hmm...
    Remind me not to seek your Legal Council. No offense.
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    John757John757 Posts: 1,085 ★★★
    Do you know what harm means? You asked me if I call 911 when I am harmed in real life. Look up what harm means.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,328 ★★★★★
    I'm going to let my comment stand.
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    John757John757 Posts: 1,085 ★★★
    You both are jokes 😂😂
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,328 ★★★★★
    That's the problem. People don't take it seriously.
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    TChalllaTChallla Posts: 85
    John757 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    John757 said:

    John757 said:

    War Rating is the metric people are manipulating to take advantage of others, so I think fair went out the window.

    No one is being taken advantage of
    I'm sorry, but I disagree with that.
    Allies are taking Losses to lower their War Rating, so they can ambush weaker Allies for Seasons momentum. The people who are trying to be Matched with reasonable Matches are being taken advantage of. All these people are doing is entering a Match. It is the definition of taking advantage. Only it comes at someone else's expense. You can't climb your way uphill on someone's back and not expect to make footprints.
    If you feel like someone doing something in a video game is taking advantage of someone else I find that sad. There are people who truely get taken advantage of in real life. Choose you’re words carefully
    I personally think there's a lot of grey area when it comes to how people treat off season wars, but almost everyone I know that plays this game plays it in real life. When you harm someone else's game play, you aren't harming meaningless pixels, the harm lands on actual people.
    I’ll make sure to have 911 on speed dial the next time I get harmed by a tanking alliance
    You’re clearly bothered because this is a practice you participate in.

    Again since you walked down the language path I’d suggest nuance is applicable here. It’s certainly harming the level of competition of the game as well as the integrity.

    Harm isn’t exclusive to physical and emotional pain as you well know. In addition to the type of harm i described it coukd easily be nullified if people didn’t do it. Since and advantage can be taken with the practice in the off season simply acting with integrity would solve it.

    When i asked my alliance why we dont do it ourselves, the response was, “cause we ain’t b******” case closed as we certainly ain’t
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    John757John757 Posts: 1,085 ★★★
    😂 I’ve never once tanked during the offseason.
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    John757John757 Posts: 1,085 ★★★
    I just think it’s ridiculous to get upset over it like it’s something serious and has a negative effect on the everyday lives of people
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,913 Guardian
    John757 said:

    Do you know what harm means? You asked me if I call 911 when I am harmed in real life. Look up what harm means.

    In no English dictionary is "harm" going to be defined exclusively to be when "someone physically and deliberately inflicts an injury" so before I look up what harm means, it would be appropriate for you to indicate what language you're referring to.
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    DiablosUltimateDiablosUltimate Posts: 1,021 ★★★
    Lower alliance that encounters higher alliance that is tanking suffers emotional harm? So they would rather fight 5/65 medusa than 3star undupped star lord?
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    John757John757 Posts: 1,085 ★★★
    harm
    noun
    1.
    physical injury, especially that which is deliberately inflicted.
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    DiablosUltimateDiablosUltimate Posts: 1,021 ★★★
    edited April 2019
    One can argue that mind is physical, since it's projection of brain. With that said, it's hard to imagine someone getting hurt over game in any way
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    LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 8,643 ★★★★★
    John757 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    John757 said:

    John757 said:

    War Rating is the metric people are manipulating to take advantage of others, so I think fair went out the window.

    No one is being taken advantage of
    I'm sorry, but I disagree with that.
    Allies are taking Losses to lower their War Rating, so they can ambush weaker Allies for Seasons momentum. The people who are trying to be Matched with reasonable Matches are being taken advantage of. All these people are doing is entering a Match. It is the definition of taking advantage. Only it comes at someone else's expense. You can't climb your way uphill on someone's back and not expect to make footprints.
    If you feel like someone doing something in a video game is taking advantage of someone else I find that sad. There are people who truely get taken advantage of in real life. Choose you’re words carefully
    I personally think there's a lot of grey area when it comes to how people treat off season wars, but almost everyone I know that plays this game plays it in real life. When you harm someone else's game play, you aren't harming meaningless pixels, the harm lands on actual people.
    I’ll make sure to have 911 on speed dial the next time I get harmed by a tanking alliance
    Whatever. You could make the same "point" about every aspect of this game or any game. Why bother having a forum or discussing anything about the game at all?
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    John757John757 Posts: 1,085 ★★★

    One can argue that mind is physical, since it's projection of brain. With that said, it's hard to imagine someone getting hurt over game in any way

    Touché and yes I agree on that 100%
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,913 Guardian
    John757 said:

    harm
    noun
    1.
    physical injury, especially that which is deliberately inflicted.

    Where to start. First, you only quoted the very first line of the definition, which is only a partial definition. The full definition states that harm is a) physical injury, b) material damage, or c) actual or potential ill effect or danger.

    Second, even that clipped definition states "especially" when deliberate, it doesn't define harm to be "deliberate physical injury." So your own improper out of context quote disagrees with you.

    Third, you quoted the definition of the noun "harm" but "I’ll make sure to have 911 on speed dial the next time I get harmed by a tanking alliance" uses the word as a verb. The verb definition from the exact same source you improperly quoted (Google) states:

    verb
    verb: harm; 3rd person present: harms; past tense: harmed; past participle: harmed; gerund or present participle: harming
    1.
    physically injure.
    "the villains didn't harm him"
    synonyms: injure, hurt, wound, maltreat, mistreat, misuse, ill-treat, ill-use, abuse, molest, inflict pain on, inflict suffering on, handle/treat roughly, do violence to, lay a finger on; More
    antonyms: benefit, improve
    damage the health of.
    "smoking when pregnant can harm your baby"
    have an adverse effect on.
    "this could harm his Olympic prospects"
    synonyms: injure, hurt, wound, maltreat, mistreat, misuse, ill-treat, ill-use, abuse, molest, inflict pain on, inflict suffering on, handle/treat roughly, do violence to, lay a finger on; More
    antonyms: benefit, improve

    So basically: to harm is to a) physically injury, b) damage the health of, or c) have an adverse effect on. This is something that I don't think we really needed to use a dictionary for, as I'm pretty sure everyone reading has the general idea of what "to harm" means, and generally agrees with that definition. Except you.
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    LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 8,643 ★★★★★
    This is a non argument about semantics. We invest time and (for some) money in a game in which other people are involved. War is a competition between these real people and it is reasonable to want something done when one group of people are manipulating the competition in a way that is not intended in order to have an unfair advantage over another group of people playing the game. Whether or not anyone is being actually harmed depends on what you mean by harm. Whether or not you, personally care, whether you lose a war to a group that manipulated their war rating is irrelevant to whether or not others should care.
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,913 Guardian

    This is a non argument about semantics.

    I wouldn't even call it that. In every game I've played, there's always a small group of people who try to redefine what "harm" means as part of a larger effort to assert the claim that the environment of online games is whatever they decide it is, and nothing else. Everyone who cares less is wrong, everyone who cares more is wrong, and only people who care about what they care about specifically have a valid claim to anything.

    It is silly and a little annoying, but fortunately it is also a marginal behavior that draws the complete rejection from all other players and the game operators combined. As a small consolation, in my experience the vast overwhelming majority of such players don't last long.
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    FugnastyFugnasty Posts: 115
    I think the tier multiplier being higher at the top levels would help.
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    TChalllaTChallla Posts: 85
    John757 said:

    harm
    noun
    1.
    physical injury, especially that which is deliberately inflicted.

    John757 said:

    harm
    noun
    1.
    physical injury, especially that which is deliberately inflicted.

    John757 said:

    harm
    noun
    1.
    physical injury, especially that which is deliberately inflicted.

    So it absolutely applies to the competitive integrity of the game. The competitive integrity of the game is physically harmed by tanking. Let move on from that known fact.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,328 ★★★★★
    You mean upset at losing enough to manipulate War Rating, just to get cakewalk Matches and take advanage of weaker Alliances? I agree.
    Your point is totally ignorant to the fact that we're all here discussing the same game. Unless you feel it's acceptable to be upset unless it involves the effects of your actions. In which case, I can't help you understand.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,328 ★★★★★
    No.That logic is as backwards as a blind horse.

    It is not more ethical to take advantage of people much farther below. It is anything but. My own personal view is it's cowardly. People can't stand the idea of playing fairly and losing fairly, so they try to use the system for an unfair advantage.
    The reality of it is, it is not harmless. The people who are being taken advantage of are playing honestly within a Matchmaking system they have no control over. They are playing and fighting with the trust that the system is designed to Match them accordingly. They're doing the best they can, and losing to Allies that shouldn't be in their vicinity, and that costs them potential Points for their own Seasons efforts. Points they would have had a more fair chance at earning had people not taken the weak route and used them for their own gain.
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    John757John757 Posts: 1,085 ★★★
    edited April 2019

    No.That logic is as backwards as a blind horse.

    It is not more ethical to take advantage of people much farther below. It is anything but. My own personal view is it's cowardly. People can't stand the idea of playing fairly and losing fairly, so they try to use the system for an unfair advantage.
    The reality of it is, it is not harmless. The people who are being taken advantage of are playing honestly within a Matchmaking system they have no control over. They are playing and fighting with the trust that the system is designed to Match them accordingly. They're doing the best they can, and losing to Allies that shouldn't be in their vicinity, and that costs them potential Points for their own Seasons efforts. Points they would have had a more fair chance at earning had people not taken the weak route and used them for their own gain.

    If the alliance was 30 kids who only had 2 months to live and they wanted to tank an offseason so their last season could be the best season they could play, would that be morally wrong? Ethical dilemma right there 🧐
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,328 ★★★★★
    I'm not even going to address your points unless you are looking at the situation in all seriousness.
    In the words of Judge Judy, "Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.".
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    John757John757 Posts: 1,085 ★★★
    I am, just answer the question. Would it be okay in that circumstance?
This discussion has been closed.