Stop making champs so complicated

Ultra8529Ultra8529 Posts: 526 ★★★
This is an urgent plea to Kabam to listen up to your player base. People turn to games to destress and unwind. Yet nowadays more and more of the new champs being released require you to basically study the game in depth, way more than what most players are willing to do. There will be who say that such detailed analysis is only needed at the top levels. But that is not true - if you are a beginner and you run into any one of the new champs with really complicated mechanics, you are going to be extremely overwhelmed, frustrated, and probably just quit outright. The same goes for many of the older veteran players in the community. I have heard so many stories of people who have played this game for 2 - 3 years simply quitting because it is too much effort now each month to learn 2 new complicated champs.

Annihilus is the latest example in a long line of such complicated champs. The number of mechanics he has - obliterate, stifle, cosmic control rod - plus their interactions between each other, makes him such a complicated champ. But he's not the first like this. We have seen similar trends in Korg, IMIW, Thing - all champs with really nuanced mechanics.

Good champs don't have to be complicated - think Omega, Corvus, Magik, even quake. All of those champs are really easy to understand - they may not be easy to use, but their mechanics are simple and straightforward. I can pretty much explain how they work to any player in 5 mins. That should be the aim of champ design in my humble opinion.
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Comments

  • BenQcSlayerBenQcSlayer Posts: 635 ★★★
    Champs are getting more complex and yes it does require that players study and do some research on champions to understand their mecanics, that’s what keeps the interest of this game going, and I think that Kabam is doing a great job!

    When you pull a new champ, your happy! But if you pull a 1rst year champ like a hulkbuster or a falcon, or a cyclops... simple mecanics, boring has hell to play, you aint going to be happy!

    My point is that new champs are fun to play against, and when you understand their mecanics and you woop their ass in AW or EQ, you feel on top of the world!
  • MilesHolmwoodMilesHolmwood Posts: 41
    edited April 9
    Ultra8529 said:

    This is an urgent plea to Kabam to listen up to your player base. People turn to games to destress and unwind. Yet nowadays more and more of the new champs being released require you to basically study the game in depth, way more than what most players are willing to do. There will be who say that such detailed analysis is only needed at the top levels. But that is not true - if you are a beginner and you run into any one of the new champs with really complicated mechanics, you are going to be extremely overwhelmed, frustrated, and probably just quit outright. The same goes for many of the older veteran players in the community. I have heard so many stories of people who have played this game for 2 - 3 years simply quitting because it is too much effort now each month to learn 2 new complicated champs.

    Annihilus is the latest example in a long line of such complicated champs. The number of mechanics he has - obliterate, stifle, cosmic control rod - plus their interactions between each other, makes him such a complicated champ. But he's not the first like this. We have seen similar trends in Korg, IMIW, Thing - all champs with really nuanced mechanics.

    Good champs don't have to be complicated - think Omega, Corvus, Magik, even quake. All of those champs are really easy to understand - they may not be easy to use, but their mechanics are simple and straightforward. I can pretty much explain how they work to any player in 5 mins. That should be the aim of champ design in my humble opinion.


    So you want a boring ass game with no new challenges? You want to be able to play an easy linear game that doesn’t stimulate your brain or motor skills? You want every champs to be the same? You want everyone to be a reskinned Black Panther OG or something? People quit games from them getting boring, if they are quitting a game because it’s challenging then they shouldn’t play and maybe should go back to the APP store and purchase a game for ages 3-5.

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,005 ★★★★★
    Personally, I enjoy Champs that take some time and practice to get to know. We spend all that time acquiring them and Ranking them. Seems worth it more to spend more time discovering their potential.
  • Ultra8529Ultra8529 Posts: 526 ★★★
    yall are missing the point. Fights can be fun without being complicated. it is a fact that the amount of text in each champion description has been increasingly steadily since 2016. There was a time when voodoo was the most complicated champ in the game, now he's easy to understand. I'm just sharing my experience from talking to a bunch of people in the community - there is frustration at what is needed to understand in each new champ.

    Also not saying only easy fights. Look at a champ like medusa, she was challenging for the longest time prior to all the true strike counters. But she had a simple mechanic - don't hit twice when she has 3 furies up. Magik for the longest time was a tough defender and only one simple mechanic - limbo when power bar is filled. Same for dorm - don't proc a buff.

    Contrary to what many have said, I am not asking for a more boring game. I am asking Kabam to use more imagination to create more innovative challenges, but without increasing complexity too much. Think of new ways to create challenges. I think a lot of the nodes are itself interesting buffs that create challenges for players. I don't see why instead of making them only like nodes, you can't put those nodes/effects into champs instead.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,005 ★★★★★
    The game has also evolved since Voodoo came. I'm sorry, but I disagree that it's a hindrance. I actually enjoy taking more time to get to know Champs. Bare bones and straightforward is fine now and then, but that's anticlimactic when you get only 2 a month.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,005 ★★★★★
    Besides, there's nothing that says we have to understand them fully as soon as they come out. It's okay to take some time.
  • BadroseBadrose Posts: 577 ★★★
    The problem is not the exactly the complexity of new characters, as BenQcSlayer noted, once you learned every champ is "easy". The problem is you need a whole day to read their descriptions/abilities and honestly is boring as hell. I still have to understand how exactly Human Torch works... All I know is that if my Blade don't send him to sleep in one shot because my ass got burned, then I need my second champion :#

    Sorry but I won't spend my day reading all the crappy stuff written there. I'm with the OP, champs are too complicated... to read.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,005 ★★★★★
    To be fair, they'd be called out from lack of descriptions. Lol.
  • xNigxNig Posts: 3,525 ★★★★
    I remember vaguely that someone posted before saying Hawkeye’s description is too short. can’t seem to please everyone lol
  • Marri_2Marri_2 Posts: 404 ★★
    Op, new players will probably not encounter them as much. In story quest A1-4 these champs aren't present (in fact, they're not even in A5).

    AQ doesn't have them (yet).

    AW won't have many of them for beginners.

    Only in Arena, but there they have no nodes.

    By the time these defenders become more commonplace for newer players, they should have some experience. And yeah, then, like everyone else, they will simply have to learn how to fight them.

    I, for one, hated IMIW at first, but he forces me out of my comfort zone and ultimately made me expand my toolbox of fight strategies. Otherwise the game would be kind of dull, right? Parry, 5-hits...that's not gonna keep players around for more than a year or so.
  • Ultra8529Ultra8529 Posts: 526 ★★★
    edited April 9



    Opposed to:

    Here’s Champion A: Look at how shiny and new he is. He does this thing, so don’t do that thing. When he does this just do this. Oh, ok. So, basically like all the other champs. I’m having all of the fun now. Gimme crystals and stuff.

    The thing is every single champ, no matter how complex, resolves itself to exactly what you have described. It is simply a matter of how many "when he does this, i just do this" that you have to remember. Take Thing for example

    (1) When he has no rock stacks, i hit him normally
    (2) When he has 15 rock stacks and power bar, i bait his special
    (3) when he has less than 15 rock stacks and no power bar, i hit his block until he gets his power bar
    (4) When he is on All or nothing node, I use someone like quake.
    (5) When he is on passive regen node, I use someone like BW/GP.
    etc.

    The game is just a never-ending list of counters and solutions. It is just more and more sets of 'rules' to memorise and learn for every new champ and node that comes out. I still think the focus should be on skill, that you can take into most if not all fights and come out with a win; rather than "if you didn't know A counters B" then you lose.
  • Secret_GamerSecret_Gamer Posts: 104
    edited April 9
    I personally absolute like more complicated champs (and I'm not the only one who does!). It makes every champ more unique and you can see that the newer champs aren't lazy designed as the older champs are.
  • PeterQuillPeterQuill Posts: 1,102 ★★★
    I brought this up a while ago when IMIW was released. Its funny to compare his ability description to someone like the original captain marvel.
  • I love a new challenges every months but I don’t know if you guys would agree with what i am gonna say right now. Actually we all just want a comfortable and challenging game, not a high spec new champ like the lately released new champ. They got so many ability descriptions on them (I don’t even bother to read them all), which is i think the main reason why the game got broken in every aspect every time they create the new patch for the game. New promising god tier candidate and complicated champ, new debuff, new buff, don’t they will just make your phone to work harder to process every single code. This game’s bugs are getting worse every time they release a new complicated champ into the contest. I am not a programmer but this is what i think the main causes why there would always be a new bug in every single patch...
    I complain because i love this game so much 🥰
  • kryer79kryer79 Posts: 165
    @TheSquish671
    quote:
    Thing:
    1 hit=1 rock charge. Don't hit him at 15 rock charges. Specials will be fully unblockable at 15 rock charges, consuming all of them.

    Korg:
    Don't dex, light intercepts, disable rock shield. Watch out for debuff shrugging

    IMIW:
    4 armor passives= consume one to autoblock. Unblockable sp1. Power gain below 15% health and autoblock without consuming armor.


    Well you should work for Kabam, if that was their description, it wouldn’t bother anyone, really...
  • kryer79kryer79 Posts: 165
    Could you please summarize Annihilus that way for me as well ?
  • kryer79kryer79 Posts: 165
    I just don’t understand that trend to make things unnecessarily complicated, most of the time you don’t even know where to look anymore to know if you’re stifled, if the attacker is unstoppable or stunned... there is an overload in small normal and passive buffs/debuffs... combined with the parade and block issues, I feel like it’s just blurring the gameplay.

    Many of the recent nodes and characters are just aimed at making gameplay random and disadvantage attackers.
  • kryer79kryer79 Posts: 165
    I am not even speaking about using them, it’s the player’s problem if he can’t figure out how to use the champ.

    But we have seen how some champs can become ridiculous on certain nodes and in alliance wars, because of their «complexity», just because they have some weird interactions. Korg on masochism in Variant, for example, IMiw in AW until Corvus was released as a counter, not even speaking about nodes like chaos lol...
  • kryer79kryer79 Posts: 165
    The most annoying thing about the complexity is that in many cases it does not feel justified. For 1. it just feels like 4 pages of description are filled to hide the relevant info, 2. in many cases, the complexity is useless blabber, and adding just unpredictable randomness based on percentages. So practically not even really useful as an attacker but are only used to make defenders less predictable.
  • kryer79kryer79 Posts: 165
    edited April 10
    And every new character just makes a ditch in an old champ with some cheap trick, now what is this new passive incineration ?! Just a way to make Iceman less immune... soon we’re going to find this in nodes or what ?



    to
  • RasiloverRasilover Posts: 272 ★★
    Passive Energy DOT
    kryer79 said:

    And every new character just makes a ditch in an old champ with some cheap trick, now what is this new passive incineration ?! Just a way to make Iceman less immune... soon we’re going to find this in nodes or what ?



    to

  • Dartz_MagicianDartz_Magician Posts: 33
    edited April 10
    @kryer79 it is nova flame debuff. It is a passive form debuff of incinerate. Just don’t hit johnny with an energy blast attack like iceman’s sp1. It’s doable with his sp2 tho. Any form of energy blast attack will raise johnny’s temperature and he will activate his nova form and your champ will get this passive debuff :)
  • DiablosUltimateDiablosUltimate Posts: 1,021 ★★★
    I like the complexity of new champions. I agree that games are means to relax, but the best way to do this is by using brain
  • CammonRoCammonRo Posts: 377 ★★
    Personally I really like the complexity of new champions. It keeps the game interesting and gives you a reason to play other than the Sisyphean hamster wheel of "oh no [X] stars are here, now my [X-1] star champs are obsolete!"

    I just wish Kabam would implement some real regression testing so new updates don't continually break previously released champions' abilities.

    Seriously, speaking as a dev, why isn't a new automated test written every time someone reports a bug on a champion? If your test fails when you're prepping your new release you know there's a problem beforehand and you don't have to rely on the community to tell you what's wrong with your game after the fact.
  • Colonaut123Colonaut123 Posts: 969 ★★★
    kryer79 said:

    Could you please summarize Annihilus that way for me as well ?

    No rod? No party.

    Thank God I've a fully maxed-out 4* awakened Mephisto.
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