Champ acquisition is extremely painful

2

Comments

  • TaZ_4178TaZ_4178 Posts: 256

    Todays OG Thor offer got me thinking.

    If anyone's ever gone after a champ they want, they know the process very well:

    1. Drop 33 000+ units on feature grandmaster crystals for a chance.
    2. Grind 700 rounds over 72 hours and or spend several odins on a 70m+ grind.
    3. Wait months for the champ to go into the featured pool for a 4.2% chance that also comes with a very mediocre basic pool.
    4. Wait several more months for the champ to go into the basic pool for a 1 in 115+ chance.

    If we're exceptionally lucky and spent several thousand dollars pulling him and using rare t2as, awakening gems, t5b shards, and precious sig stones, by the time we get them ranked up they will no longer be as effective in the meta as hard counters have already been released if not hard nodes counters in war that weaken them.

    If we're lucky and they're still useful, they won't be for much longer as the game has been pushed into the 6* meta and we have to go through this mind numbing wallet killing process all over again.

    This is a serious issue with the game. Champs are so difficult to acquire and the time we get them and rank them up, they're not as useful and the game's moved on. There has to be something better than this. It is extremely frustrating to see your hard work and money go to waste like this.

    100% agree with you
  • TaZ_4178TaZ_4178 Posts: 256

    I kind of agree. On the one hand I don't expect to get newer champs right away without spending or grinding (and I do neither). On the other, I have often gone 6 months or more without a single newer champ. Right now every crystal is a 2015 champ. I have opened 9 6* crystals and not one that I will take to rank 2. I just wish there was some way to avoid months of garbage crystals. I'm fine with getting garbage champs but it gets old when that's all you pull. I have a good roster but that doesn't change the fact that I'm getting tired of 100% bad pulls from basic, featured, dungeon etc for the last 4 months.

    Very well said!
  • TaZ_4178TaZ_4178 Posts: 256
    Personally for me the only crystals I actually let spin are cav. Crystals/6*crystals... honestly just got sick of the same ol falcon beast ip kk hulkbuster etc. From 4-5* crystals. I don't know if just popping them help your odds but it does make me feel better to just get it out the way you know lol good luck everyone!
  • RiderofHellRiderofHell Posts: 1,541 ★★★★
    Last year i was able to complete 4/12 UC 100% this year not so much...tell me how ppl with no SL.Blade.Corvus.Magik.Iceman are able to 100% UC everytime when i struggle all the damn time.

    Bc if i am missing something please tell me? I am a f2p and refuse to spend units on UC maybe that is my problem
  • JRock808JRock808 Posts: 1,149 ★★★★
    edited April 17
    Games like this are designed as carrots on sticks. The problem with this one is the carrot could be rotten, or it could be ripe.. and the stick steadily gets longer without giving you any guarantee of a fresh crisp carrot instead of a brown mushy one.

    Lack of focused roster growth, outside of whaling out, has always been this games major shortcoming. Absolutely everything, even down to rank up materials, are dictated by RNG and nothing else.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,136 Guardian
    Lormif said:


    DNA3000 said:

    QuikPik said:

    Unfortunately, some of the newer content requires specific champions as counters. I am talking about Act 6, so if you don't have a 5 or 6* Void you are SoL. Many times you are at the mercy of RNG and not everyone is going to have the right champ for current content.

    Which fight in Act 6 requires a Void?
    There is an Incinerate/ buffet line 6.1.5 that is a total pain in the ass without Void, and a walk through the park with him. That is terrible design when you add in the 4* ban.
    That is not the same thing as "requiring". You could also use any of the other incarcerate immune as well...
    I haven't done that path yet, but I don't think you even need an incinerate immune champ necessarily. It might be easier with, say, a team using Heimdall's rez synergy and different attackers for the different fights.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,136 Guardian


    DNA3000 said:

    QuikPik said:

    Unfortunately, some of the newer content requires specific champions as counters. I am talking about Act 6, so if you don't have a 5 or 6* Void you are SoL. Many times you are at the mercy of RNG and not everyone is going to have the right champ for current content.

    Which fight in Act 6 requires a Void?
    There is an Incinerate/ buffet line 6.1.5 that is a total pain in the ass without Void, and a walk through the park with him. That is terrible design when you add in the 4* ban.
    I don't see it as terrible design. First of all, that lane isn't a walk in the park with Void; Void might be the best option in general, but each node throws other challenges at the player like Aspect of War. Second, if every fight was doable at the same level of difficulty with every champ that would dilute the differences between the champs to the point where it didn't matter at all which champ you used.

    There are those that think this would be a good design objective for the game, where all the champs are just IROC duplicates with different decals and the only difference in a fight is the driver. But this is not that game, and personally I find the idea to be unbearably dull. If enough people out there actually want such a game where there aren't radical differences in situational performance, and were willing to pay for it, maybe there would be more games like that. But in my experience, people say they want games like that, but games that try to do that end up dying, because the people who claim they want all the control and none of the randomness, and want the game to be driven only by skill and not by external forces, also end up complaining the game is boring and repetitive and quit, leaving the game to die.

    I would never take that chance if my livelihood depended on a game I was developing, and I doubt the Kabam developers ever would either.
  • ẞlооdẞlооd Posts: 1,215 ★★★
    I just wanna get the dang champs I like.. My favorite superhero of all time (Hulk) still hasn't joined my roster above a 3* 🙄
  • LeoGnarleyardoLeoGnarleyardo Posts: 294
    This is pretty much the equivalent of complaining that you didnt get to buy boardwalk and park place in Monopoly.
    First its a game.. if you dont like the drop rates, dont spend real money.
    Second.. RNG!!!!!
    This is what happens when you give out participation awards... every one has something to complain about, and everyone thinks theyre OWED something.... wake up people.. Its CHANCE....
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 4,846 ★★★★★

    This is pretty much the equivalent of complaining that you didnt get to buy boardwalk and park place in Monopoly.
    First its a game.. if you dont like the drop rates, dont spend real money.
    Second.. RNG!!!!!
    This is what happens when you give out participation awards... every one has something to complain about, and everyone thinks theyre OWED something.... wake up people.. Its CHANCE....

    OP is pointing out an aspect of the game which can be very frustrating. It has nothing to do with being OWED something. We all know its CHANCE and no one needs to wake up. Playing for months without getting any newer champs is frustrating. The fact that it's RNG!!!!! doesn't make it not frustrating.
  • Dexman1349Dexman1349 Posts: 3,060 ★★★★★
    In a sense, I do agree with the OP. It can be very challenging (and expensive) if you truly wanted to focus on certain champs, and it becomes a game of luck for those of us who play the RNG game for "god-tier" champs.

    My top 3 champs had remained unchanged since July last year. Almost every 5* and 6* pull since simply lacked the damage output and/or utility I wanted in an R4 champ. So I used that time to build quite a stacked R3 roster to help my arena grinding. Now, in the time it takes me to "watch" a TV show I can knock out over 1m points and a couple milestones in arena.

    But even this gets boring and repetitive. I was basically riding out the game to see how the Endgame event would go and was planning on walking away shortly thereafter. It really does wear you down when it's pull after pull of garbage undesired champs. I don't even want or expect good pulls every time. I just want good pulls often enough to keep the roster "fresh".

    To Kabam's defense though, they have been pushing very hard with recent content to force players to look deeper into their rosters. Players are using Gambit for Variant one and King Groot is a beast for Variant 2. Two champs who would otherwise be arena fodder (at best). Taking this cue, I've forced myself to start learning how to use those garbage undesired champs more often. And I've been pleasantly surprised to learn that my 6* BB is actually pretty good in AQ and that 5* Vulture has some fairly decent power control. I have even grown to enjoy using Blue Cyclops (his unblockable specials against Medusa is awesome!).

    All of that being said, all it takes is one amazing pull and it's like being a kid in a candy shop all over again. Pulled a 6* Domino a few days ago and had the resources to R2 her saved up. It completely changes how I approach the game. I think we all need one of those "pick me up" pulls once in a while. Unfortunately the current RNG system simply cannot reliably provide that.
  • CliffordcanCliffordcan Posts: 759 ★★★
    @DNA3000 thanks for your assumptions, do the path without a Void and get back to me. Or even with a Void, then at least your assumptions could be considered opinion.

    I don’t think all champs should be the same, I was very clear in a later post, I want more avenues to get specific 5* champions (that doesn’t include $$$). I don’t think that is too much to ask with the direction the game is going.
  • Panchulon21Panchulon21 Posts: 708 ★★★
    I don’t have Corvus have been fine without him. Only have a 4 star starlord, been fine without him. Some content is more difficulty without certain champs but can still be done. The sentinel in 6.1.2 is a tough fight without Medusa but I managed with ghost rider (after 400 hits lol).

    I do have a rank 4 ghost (I rarely use her) I do have a rank 5 void (usually in war defense)

    Now some nodes like starburst only have 1 counter other than units and money but most content can be done with a lot of a champs.

    I do agree with the OP though, you grind and grind and grind for champs, get them then start back over. I also do agree with one of the guys who said this game isn’t an “end game (see what I did there)” it’s about collecting large roster and using it in all aspects of the game.
  • LeoGnarleyardoLeoGnarleyardo Posts: 294

    This is pretty much the equivalent of complaining that you didnt get to buy boardwalk and park place in Monopoly.
    First its a game.. if you dont like the drop rates, dont spend real money.
    Second.. RNG!!!!!
    This is what happens when you give out participation awards... every one has something to complain about, and everyone thinks theyre OWED something.... wake up people.. Its CHANCE....

    OP is pointing out an aspect of the game which can be very frustrating. It has nothing to do with being OWED something. We all know its CHANCE and no one needs to wake up. Playing for months without getting any newer champs is frustrating. The fact that it's RNG!!!!! doesn't make it not frustrating.
    The "aspect of the game" your talking about is just the persons perception of frustrating pulls I understand how it can be frustrating to have your favourite or needed champ elude your roster but still... Any pull is a good pull if you ask me..
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,136 Guardian

    I think we all need one of those "pick me up" pulls once in a while. Unfortunately the current RNG system simply cannot reliably provide that.

    It unreliably provides that. For a game to have longevity, it must make things players want, and also make sure they cannot reliably get them quickly. If they can, your days are numbered. But it is extremely difficult to make a deterministic reward system that has the property that players can't just get what they want quickly, don't get what they want all the time, appreciate the difference between more and less desirable rewards, and don't get into a rut of spending a huge amount of time getting no rewards at all because they are saving up for the best possible rewards. Randomness actually guarantees something: it guarantees that every players' experience is going to be different over time, and different across players, in a way that preserves reward value.

    If there exists a way to do this deterministically, no one has found it yet. The first person to invent a way is going to be very, very, very rich.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,136 Guardian

    @DNA3000 thanks for your assumptions, do the path without a Void and get back to me. Or even with a Void, then at least your assumptions could be considered opinion.

    I don’t think all champs should be the same, I was very clear in a later post, I want more avenues to get specific 5* champions (that doesn’t include $$$). I don’t think that is too much to ask with the direction the game is going.

    Thanks for your assumption that it isn't too much to ask. When you do professional game development, or even amateur game development, then your assumptions could be considered opinion.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 4,846 ★★★★★

    This is pretty much the equivalent of complaining that you didnt get to buy boardwalk and park place in Monopoly.
    First its a game.. if you dont like the drop rates, dont spend real money.
    Second.. RNG!!!!!
    This is what happens when you give out participation awards... every one has something to complain about, and everyone thinks theyre OWED something.... wake up people.. Its CHANCE....

    OP is pointing out an aspect of the game which can be very frustrating. It has nothing to do with being OWED something. We all know its CHANCE and no one needs to wake up. Playing for months without getting any newer champs is frustrating. The fact that it's RNG!!!!! doesn't make it not frustrating.
    The "aspect of the game" your talking about is just the persons perception of frustrating pulls I understand how it can be frustrating to have your favourite or needed champ elude your roster but still... Any pull is a good pull if you ask me..
    Any pull is a good pull? You can't really believe that. Some champs are objectively more useful for difficult content than others. Some champs are objectively better for AW defense than others. Some champs are obviously several years old and others are not. I'm glad you think that months of pulling nothing but old champs which are not helpful for war defense and also are not useful for clearing difficult content actually amounts to months of good pulls. It'll help ease the frustration when I open my 10th 6* crystal in a week or two hoping to finally get a champ I will take to R2 and I get HB or dupe my DPX. I'll try to remember that it's a good pull.
  • Dexman1349Dexman1349 Posts: 3,060 ★★★★★
    edited April 18
    DNA3000 said:

    I think we all need one of those "pick me up" pulls once in a while. Unfortunately the current RNG system simply cannot reliably provide that.

    It unreliably provides that. For a game to have longevity, it must make things players want, and also make sure they cannot reliably get them quickly. If they can, your days are numbered. But it is extremely difficult to make a deterministic reward system that has the property that players can't just get what they want quickly, don't get what they want all the time, appreciate the difference between more and less desirable rewards, and don't get into a rut of spending a huge amount of time getting no rewards at all because they are saving up for the best possible rewards. Randomness actually guarantees something: it guarantees that every players' experience is going to be different over time, and different across players, in a way that preserves reward value.

    If there exists a way to do this deterministically, no one has found it yet. The first person to invent a way is going to be very, very, very rich.
    Agreed.

    If I remember correctly, one of Kabam's goals with update 12.0 was to reduce the players' focus on only a select few "highly desired" champs and level the playing field a bit. At the time, you could walk through almost anything with Scarlet Witch, Thor, Wolverine, and/or Dr Strange. Naturally they were the "must have champs" of the time. Kabam didn't want players obsessing over just those few so they changed the system. New buffs/debuffs were added, champs were buffed/nerfed, masteries were adjusted, all in the name of game balance.

    Unfortunately, they maintained the "here's a better champ" system of introducing new characters. It ended up building a new pool of elite champs that left the bulk of the "balanced" 12.0 champion pool in the dust. Now, just like pre-12.0, you can get through most content with almost anyone in your roster but instead we are all pining for Stark, Blade, Corvus, and Domino. The next wave is being built around Thing, Torch, Nick Fury, Capt Marvel and will leave the current meta behind.

    I don't mind having a spectrum of characters in the game. WIth differing abilities there will always be some that have more value than others. I just think Kabam has completely undone their 12.0 update goals of keeping a relatively balanced playing field. There is just too much gap between the haves and the have nots.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,136 Guardian

    I just think Kabam has completely undone their 12.0 update goals of keeping a relatively balanced playing field.

    I don't think that was ever a goal of 12.0. There's a difference between their stated goal of reducing players' reliance on a small number of top tier champs and trying to make a more literally "relatively balanced" playing field. Nor do I think 12.0 actually did that. I think flat stats and some of the champion balancing changes compressed the range of performance across all champions somewhat, but I don't think it actually created a balanced playing field in the sense I think you're saying.

    Some power inflation is necessary in a game like MCOC, because without power inflation veteran players can "lock in" their huge progress advantages. Imagine I wave a magic wand and do what we know game developers can't really do, but pretend they can. All champions are now "different' but also "equally valuable." The problem here is that beyond having a certain number of them, all progress is one-dimensionally focused on rank ups. Once we all have a large number of champs, having any particular one isn't important. What's important is how high in rank they all are. Veterans have a huge advantage there, because they simply have had more time to accumulate rank up materials. Eventually, this chokes the game off at the bottom: it becomes hopeless, and eventually laughably ridiculous, for any new player to join the game and have to compete with that. Veteran players have an advantage that simply cannot ever be overcome.

    Power inflation changes that equation, because in a sense new champions getting stronger is kind of like older champions getting weaker. It is like economic inflation: your money gets less valuable over time, because it can buy less. If all you do is sit on a big pile of money, that big pile of money eventually becomes worthless. Eventually, people working at 7-11 make more in a month than your big pile of money from a hundred years ago. Just to stay in one place, you have to keep working: your money has to make money to keep up with inflation. In games like MCOC, veteran players have a huge advantage, but they can only keep that advantage if they use their rosters to keep making forward progress. If they take their foot off the gas, someone who starts playing today could conceivably catch up with them if they put in similar amounts of effort.

    This kind of power inflation is really the engine that drives the escalator of progress in the game. It is like a ladder, except we're all going up the down escalator. The people higher up have an advantage, but it is a temporary advantage. If they stop climbing and you don't, you will gain on them. This is something that new players have to perceive is possible in order to entice them to join a game with four year veterans in it.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,136 Guardian

    This is pretty much the equivalent of complaining that you didnt get to buy boardwalk and park place in Monopoly.
    First its a game.. if you dont like the drop rates, dont spend real money.
    Second.. RNG!!!!!
    This is what happens when you give out participation awards... every one has something to complain about, and everyone thinks theyre OWED something.... wake up people.. Its CHANCE....

    OP is pointing out an aspect of the game which can be very frustrating. It has nothing to do with being OWED something. We all know its CHANCE and no one needs to wake up. Playing for months without getting any newer champs is frustrating. The fact that it's RNG!!!!! doesn't make it not frustrating.
    The "aspect of the game" your talking about is just the persons perception of frustrating pulls I understand how it can be frustrating to have your favourite or needed champ elude your roster but still... Any pull is a good pull if you ask me..
    Any pull is a good pull? You can't really believe that. Some champs are objectively more useful for difficult content than others. Some champs are objectively better for AW defense than others. Some champs are obviously several years old and others are not. I'm glad you think that months of pulling nothing but old champs which are not helpful for war defense and also are not useful for clearing difficult content actually amounts to months of good pulls. It'll help ease the frustration when I open my 10th 6* crystal in a week or two hoping to finally get a champ I will take to R2 and I get HB or dupe my DPX. I'll try to remember that it's a good pull.
    To be honest, I tell myself there are no bad pulls. There are better pulls, but no actual bad pulls. Whether I'm being optimistic or just lying to myself is a matter of perspective, but it is true that I want every champ eventually, so over and above champion utility every champ is either a new pull which is okay, or it is a dup that generates shards that lead to more pulls of higher tier, which is okay.

    A lot of this is perspective. I'm an arena grinder, so of course every new champ helps (and every dup is more shards). But if I wasn't an arena grinder, then every new champ would still help, because I could get more milestones in my far more limited time in the arena.

    Not that I'm looking forward to duping my 6* DPX. I might die of old age before that dup becomes measureably useful.
  • QuikPikQuikPik Posts: 207 ★★
    There are definitely bad pulls. The 3 5* crystals I've gotten thus far from the variant quests have yielded me Rhino, Green Goblin and Magneto. That would leave you a bit salty after working hard for those rewards and getting 3 underwhelming champs (alright Green Goblin is OK but I also have him as a 6*).

    Whereas the free 5* crystal Kabam gave us is the same type of crystal but I viewed it differently. I didn't care too much who I got from it since I didn't really earn that crystal.

    Look at variant 2, Kabam did a great job with that as you don't need the perfect champs to complete it. Heck you don't even need a 5 person team of all XL champs. I wish they would revisit other facets of the game and think about how many viable counters there are for certain nodes. It's not healthy to have 1-2 champs that can tackle a particular node. I'd say 4-5 is a more reasonable number.
  • SiliyoSiliyo Posts: 508 ★★★
    This post... 👌🏼
  • LormifLormif Posts: 3,133 ★★★★

    Lormif said:


    DNA3000 said:

    QuikPik said:

    Unfortunately, some of the newer content requires specific champions as counters. I am talking about Act 6, so if you don't have a 5 or 6* Void you are SoL. Many times you are at the mercy of RNG and not everyone is going to have the right champ for current content.

    Which fight in Act 6 requires a Void?
    There is an Incinerate/ buffet line 6.1.5 that is a total pain in the ass without Void, and a walk through the park with him. That is terrible design when you add in the 4* ban.
    That is not the same thing as "requiring". You could also use any of the other incarcerate immune as well...
    That is not the point. The point I'm trying to make is that it makes me resent Kabam for not having a champ I already want. For Void you have a 1/115 chance to pull from Basic. Add along to this that a 4* Void would do this path fine, but they are banned, which adds to the resentment of not having a champ I want.

    I will get through the content, but the resentment starts to add up. I don't have a 5* GR, if he was in an Arena I would grind for him, I opened the 2 Dungeon Crystals he was in (i think he has been in 2). Sure he is in the featured currently with a bunch of champs I don't want and not worth the extra shards to me. This further stacks resentment.

    It is my opinion that this is bad game design. It has demotivated me. I don't get excited to see the new champions because chances are it will be a very long time before I get them. With the 4* ban they should give us more avenues for getting 5*s(don't confuse this with more shards). Like I mentioned before top 600 in Featured 5* would bring scores dramatically down from 70 mil. A Basic 5* Arena is needed. The old 5* Featured crystal was the best thing this game has done, I think that should return. Anything but the current featured system, it sucks (the wait, the basic champs to be specific).

    This is my opinion and my experience. If you are not an end game player(like still working on your 1st 6*), feel free to keep your thoughts to yourself.
    I can only go by what you said, not what you meant. You said he was required, that is false. And the design is good from a monetary point, and this is a game that needs the money. If everyone opened the champ they wanted on the 1st, second or 3rd attempt they would make virtually no money. I can agree about the basic 5* arena though.
  • SlimeballSlimeball Posts: 251

    Last year i was able to complete 4/12 UC 100% this year not so much...tell me how ppl with no SL.Blade.Corvus.Magik.Iceman are able to 100% UC everytime when i struggle all the damn time.

    Bc if i am missing something please tell me? I am a f2p and refuse to spend units on UC maybe that is my problem

    because your skill is not up there, get good lol
  • SlimeballSlimeball Posts: 251
    JRock808 said:

    Games like this are designed as carrots on sticks. The problem with this one is the carrot could be rotten, or it could be ripe.. and the stick steadily gets longer without giving you any guarantee of a fresh crisp carrot instead of a brown mushy one.

    Lack of focused roster growth, outside of whaling out, has always been this games major shortcoming. Absolutely everything, even down to rank up materials, are dictated by RNG and nothing else.

    ive needed tech t4 for 2 months now ive opened 15 t4cc crystals not one tech lol
  • MrOnizukaMrOnizuka Posts: 118
    Why so serious? Hmmmm...
  • ZuroZuro Posts: 1,543 ★★★★
    Slimeball said:

    Last year i was able to complete 4/12 UC 100% this year not so much...tell me how ppl with no SL.Blade.Corvus.Magik.Iceman are able to 100% UC everytime when i struggle all the damn time.

    Bc if i am missing something please tell me? I am a f2p and refuse to spend units on UC maybe that is my problem

    because your skill is not up there, get good lol
    This would not be a proper thread without someone saying get good

  • SlimeballSlimeball Posts: 251
    Zuro said:

    Slimeball said:

    Last year i was able to complete 4/12 UC 100% this year not so much...tell me how ppl with no SL.Blade.Corvus.Magik.Iceman are able to 100% UC everytime when i struggle all the damn time.

    Bc if i am missing something please tell me? I am a f2p and refuse to spend units on UC maybe that is my problem

    because your skill is not up there, get good lol
    This would not be a proper thread without someone saying get good

    lol, look at his roster, and he says he cant complete uc when people without his roster can, what other advice would you give him? truth hurts
  • ZuroZuro Posts: 1,543 ★★★★
    Slimeball said:

    Zuro said:

    Slimeball said:

    Last year i was able to complete 4/12 UC 100% this year not so much...tell me how ppl with no SL.Blade.Corvus.Magik.Iceman are able to 100% UC everytime when i struggle all the damn time.

    Bc if i am missing something please tell me? I am a f2p and refuse to spend units on UC maybe that is my problem

    because your skill is not up there, get good lol
    This would not be a proper thread without someone saying get good

    lol, look at his roster, and he says he cant complete uc when people without his roster can, what other advice would you give him? truth hurts
    I’m not saying what you said was wrong I’m just saying there is always that one person who says get good
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 19,956 ★★★★★
    Acquiring Champs is literally the point of the game. At least the first part. The second part is acquiring Resources to Rank them. The third is applying those Champs to content. This is not an immediate process by design. That's part of the longevity of the game. It also requires a long-term commitment if we intend on advancing farther.
Sign In or Register to comment.