Class and Rarity Gates - Discussion Thread

It's one Quest that's permanent. Once it's done, it's over. Somehow that translates to negating all the work people put into Ranking, making 4*s obsolete, foreshadowing the grim future to come, trying to make money and alienate F2P, and a whole host of other generalizations. One Quest. One part of the game. Gets harder because it's supppsed to. That's it.

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It's taken place before in Story. Then more in Act 5 with Keys. Act 6 continues with harder and different gates. I'm not sure what you mean by most of the End-Game. This is nothing new at this point. It's also not that groundbreaking with games in general. It's been used for decades in Video Games.

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As I said before, no Ranking choice will work for everything. Limiting what you can bring is part of the challenge factor. You pretty much have to when you have OP Champs that can pretty much go through anything, albeit in some cases with skill. We can't always rely on the same Champs. That's always been true of the game, even more so after 12.0. If we're bringing the same God Tier Champs into every piece of new content, that not only gets old quick, it's not challenging at all. Then there's the progress issue. Having these gates isn't just about making it more challenging. That's a byproduct for those who don't have what they need. The real purpose is to act as a progress separator. It allows access for those who have reached a certain point in their Roster.
The fact of the matter is, the game inherently must limit us in some way to provide a challenge. Whether it's through Nodes, Buffs/Debuffs, Level Requirements, even gates. If there's no limitation, there's no challenge to get through. You can only go so far with Nodes before you need another layer of challenge. It's a small trade-off. We have very useful Champs we can play with, we just can't expect them to work for everything. No matter how people try to find the perfect Roster to Rank and rest on, that's just not how it works. Nothing will work for everything. We will always have to change from time to time. That's growth. There is none in a system where you do the same thing over and over with the same Champs and never use other options.

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What I suspect, which I suspected with 6.1, is that the Rewards for Exploration are significant enough that they want to keep it limited to people at a certain growth point. We have yet to see them, but 6.1 made a great deal more sense when we understood that the Cavalier access was restricted for people far along enough. These things usually also have to do with distributing Rewards where they're not going to offset the balance.

The main issue about the current meta of the game is people have 3-4 main attackers and build their questing teams with synergies supporting these attackers.

By gating using Class, Size, Rarity, Tags, it forces people to find alternatives which is in line with what the Dev Diary posted late last year mentioned.

Everyone is affected by it, to different degrees. The more experienced, advanced rosters less so, but that’s cause they’ve spent either time, effort or money to build it.

Tbh, even with my roster of 7 R5s, 1 6* R2, 17 R4s, 8 6*s, I doubt I’ll be able to 100% it right when it releases. Thing is, I don’t need to, no one does.

Will I be able to use my top champs? Yes, some champs on certain paths. Even on the hardest gated path I can bring 4 R4 champs of a single class and 1 R5 of a different one.

Demonzfyre

4 gates, and the 4th one requires 4 six star champs? wth? You say you're introducing these gates to diversify the use of various champions, but it's really quite the opposite, forcing us to use a very limited choice of champions, which of course will induce more spending on revives/potions/boosts.

If you really wanted the expanded use of all the characters in the game, the gates would be specific character(s) based, instead 6-star restricted. Tie that together with the 4-star ban in Act 6, this is an obvious ploy to induce buying Cavalier Crystals, period. There is no other way to gain a respectable 6-star roster. Act 5 gives you half a 6-star crystal (one-time), the monthly event gives you 25% of one, and duping a 5-star gives you 2.75% of one. Do you know how long it takes just to grind out 10k 6-star shards?

Don't be surprised if Chapter 4 is completely restricted to 6 star champs. It's officially pay to play. Whales now have a significant advantage and a shortcut for faster progression in the game via Cavalier crystals

After a complete failure this month, in which should've been the biggest event in MCOC history, more disappointment.
Its 6 out 60 paths. You'll be ok.
6 paths that you need to clear to get the exploration rewards...
What's the point of clearing 54 paths, if it's the same rewards as clearing one path per chapter?

Because you'll have time to build your roster further. If you dont have a minimum of 4 6*'s to complete the path, you aren't ready for the content yet.

Kobster84

The main issue about the current meta of the game is people have 3-4 main attackers and build their questing teams with synergies supporting these attackers.

By gating using Class, Size, Rarity, Tags, it forces people to find alternatives which is in line with what the Dev Diary posted late last year mentioned.

Everyone is affected by it, to different degrees. The more experienced, advanced rosters less so, but that’s cause they’ve spent either time, effort or money to build it.

Tbh, even with my roster of 7 R5s, 1 6* R2, 17 R4s, 8 6*s, I doubt I’ll be able to 100% it right when it releases. Thing is, I don’t need to, no one does.

Will I be able to use my top champs? Yes, some champs on certain paths. Even on the hardest gated path I can bring 4 R4 champs of a single class and 1 R5 of a different one.

I think the problem is more with the 6* lane
I’m doubtful that kabam will just have easy defenders on that lane so unless you’ve had some good 6* luck chances are your not gonna be able to do it for a while

Kobster84

Also I don’t like how they’ve stated since cavalier 5* and 6* have become much more accessible because they simply haven’t
Unless they mean cavalier crystals in which case that’s just stupid

RagamugginGunner

It's one Quest that's permanent. Once it's done, it's over. Somehow that translates to negating all the work people put into Ranking, making 4*s obsolete, foreshadowing the grim future to come, trying to make money and alienate F2P, and a whole host of other generalizations. One Quest. One part of the game. Gets harder because it's supppsed to. That's it.

You said the same thing in the 6.1 announcement.

It's now 12 quests that have rarity gates and we're looking at 12 more with the next 2 chapters of Act 6 so stop acting like this is a one time thing.

The main issue about the current meta of the game is people have 3-4 main attackers and build their questing teams with synergies supporting these attackers.

By gating using Class, Size, Rarity, Tags, it forces people to find alternatives which is in line with what the Dev Diary posted late last year mentioned.

Everyone is affected by it, to different degrees. The more experienced, advanced rosters less so, but that’s cause they’ve spent either time, effort or money to build it.

Tbh, even with my roster of 7 R5s, 1 6* R2, 17 R4s, 8 6*s, I doubt I’ll be able to 100% it right when it releases. Thing is, I don’t need to, no one does.

Will I be able to use my top champs? Yes, some champs on certain paths. Even on the hardest gated path I can bring 4 R4 champs of a single class and 1 R5 of a different one.
I think the problem is more with the 6* lane
I’m doubtful that kabam will just have easy defenders on that lane so unless you’ve had some good 6* luck chances are your not gonna be able to do it for a while

Don't worry. The 6* lanes are ridiculously easy. Not a big deal. (Take my word for it)

Bidzy7

The main issue about the current meta of the game is people have 3-4 main attackers and build their questing teams with synergies supporting these attackers.

By gating using Class, Size, Rarity, Tags, it forces people to find alternatives which is in line with what the Dev Diary posted late last year mentioned.

Everyone is affected by it, to different degrees. The more experienced, advanced rosters less so, but that’s cause they’ve spent either time, effort or money to build it.

Tbh, even with my roster of 7 R5s, 1 6* R2, 17 R4s, 8 6*s, I doubt I’ll be able to 100% it right when it releases. Thing is, I don’t need to, no one does.

Will I be able to use my top champs? Yes, some champs on certain paths. Even on the hardest gated path I can bring 4 R4 champs of a single class and 1 R5 of a different one.
I think the problem is more with the 6* lane
I’m doubtful that kabam will just have easy defenders on that lane so unless you’ve had some good 6* luck chances are your not gonna be able to do it for a while
Don't worry. The 6* lanes are ridiculously easy. Not a big deal. (Take my word for it)

Hard to do when you have a roster like yours

But what about the boss fight ?

Surely the boss fight will be difficult and will require some sort of counter and can't be easily done with some of the terrible 6* people may have e.g. hulkbuster, dpx, Karnack to name a few

It's one Quest that's permanent. Once it's done, it's over. Somehow that translates to negating all the work people put into Ranking, making 4*s obsolete, foreshadowing the grim future to come, trying to make money and alienate F2P, and a whole host of other generalizations. One Quest. One part of the game. Gets harder because it's supppsed to. That's it.
You said the same thing in the 6.1 announcement.

It's now 12 quests that have rarity gates and we're looking at 12 more with the next 2 chapters of Act 6 so stop acting like this is a one time thing.

What I said was it's once it's finished, it's over. They confirmed themsleves there would be more. I never said it was a one-time thing. Completing it is.

The main issue about the current meta of the game is people have 3-4 main attackers and build their questing teams with synergies supporting these attackers.

By gating using Class, Size, Rarity, Tags, it forces people to find alternatives which is in line with what the Dev Diary posted late last year mentioned.

Everyone is affected by it, to different degrees. The more experienced, advanced rosters less so, but that’s cause they’ve spent either time, effort or money to build it.

Tbh, even with my roster of 7 R5s, 1 6* R2, 17 R4s, 8 6*s, I doubt I’ll be able to 100% it right when it releases. Thing is, I don’t need to, no one does.

Will I be able to use my top champs? Yes, some champs on certain paths. Even on the hardest gated path I can bring 4 R4 champs of a single class and 1 R5 of a different one.
I think the problem is more with the 6* lane
I’m doubtful that kabam will just have easy defenders on that lane so unless you’ve had some good 6* luck chances are your not gonna be able to do it for a while
Don't worry. The 6* lanes are ridiculously easy. Not a big deal. (Take my word for it)
Hard to do when you have a roster like yours

But what about the boss fight ?

Surely the boss fight will be difficult and will require some sort of counter and can't be easily done with some of the terrible 6* people may have e.g. hulkbuster, dpx, Karnack to name a few

That’s why you have an empty slot for a 5* champ you need for the boss. Anyway it’s only one path, definitely manageable.

SDP

Miike Can you also answer us how 5* and 6* shards became more accessible after 6.1. went out ? other than spending tons of money on cavalier crystals and other cash offers ?

You can get 600-1,000 units a week in arena.
You know, there is this really strange thing some people have, called a "job" or "university" or something like that.

That’s clever. It’s the quotations. Spicy.

I put in 40+ hours a week at the hospital.

Just to be clear, you are saying that you don’t have the time to put in the required work to play the game, so you should just get more resources and easier access to champs?

SDP

Miike Can you also answer us how 5* and 6* shards became more accessible after 6.1. went out ? other than spending tons of money on cavalier crystals and other cash offers ?

You can get 600-1,000 units a week in arena (like always), and there is now access to crystals that give you a 12% chance or a 19% chance to pull either a 5* or 6*. And a significantly larger chance to pulll 4* which, when duped give 5* shards.

You either have to spend money or do arena and all the monthly quests possible. The sweet ain’t as sweet without the sour. People just don’t wanna do the grind, and don’t have the patience.
Very clever sleight of hand here combining 5* and 6* drop rates into your percentage figure of 12% and 19%. Nobody is really complaining about lack of 5*s, we are discussing the lack of 6*s contrary to Kabam's suggestion that 6*s are now more available. The facts are that cavalier crystals have been the only meaningful way in which 6*s have been made more accessible, and that is a 1% chance per 200 unit crystal, or 1.5% at 300 unit crystal. So on your best case scenario of 1000 units per week, that is 5 shots at a 1% chance for a 6*. On average you would need 100 crystals to open a 6%, that means 20 weeks of grinding 1000 units a week to get 1 6* out of 100 cavalier crystals. That is not at all a meaningful increase in the availability of 6*s to the main player base. Not to mention that the 6* pool is itself over 50% bad champions.

The game is based on statistics, and what Kabam is saying is that the new 6* gates will sideline non spending players as those players would need to grind about 20 weeks on average to have an additional 6* champ to have the chance to get into 6.2. And if you get a bad champ, well another 20 weeks ahead for your next 6* champ!

And in case you run the argument that 5* drop rates = more 5* dupes = more 6* shards = more 6*s. Let us just break that down. The drop rate for 5*s is 11% in the 200 unit cavalier crystals. Assuming you already have every single 5* duped (which most do not), and therefore every single 5* pull gives you 275 6* shards, you would be getting only 11 5*s out of the 100 cavalier crystals you get from a 20 week grind. That is 11 * 275 = 3,025 6* shards. So if you insist on being absolutely precise, a 20 week grind gives a player, on average, 1.3025 6*s.

You can clear most of 6.2 without going through gates. There’s like two paths that require four 6* champs I think. That path may be challenging. Sure. I’ll finish it in time.

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SDP

Miike Can you also answer us how 5* and 6* shards became more accessible after 6.1. went out ? other than spending tons of money on cavalier crystals and other cash offers ?

You can get 600-1,000 units a week in arena.
You know, there is this really strange thing some people have, called a "job" or "university" or something like that.
That’s clever. It’s the quotations. Spicy.

I put in 40+ hours a week at the hospital.

Just to be clear, you are saying that you don’t have the time to put in the required work to play the game, so you should just get more resources and easier access to champs?
I have time to play the game from Thursay until Sunday, thus I´m grinding units in the first round of arena. However I grind these units in order to complete content, like Variant or Act 6. Kabam has said that 5* and 6* champions have become more accessible since Act 6.1 came out, and that´s wrong. EQ rewards have stayed the same, AW Season rewards have stayed the same, arenas have stayed the same... The only thing Kabam is reffering to is the Cavalier crystal, which requires on average 20.000 units for one 6* champion, who might end up being trash like a Deadpool X-Force. Even in your case it takes at least 20 weeks of grinding arena (~5 months), however you´re also spending an average of 10.000 units on 3* champions at the same time. How is that a good value?
What I understand when Kabam says they are making 5* and 6* more accessible is an increase of rewards in EQ, AW seasons, Solo Events, Alliance Events etc. Or maybe a "fixed" Celebrity Challenge every two months. But that has not happened since 6.1 came out. And going through this discussion I see a lot of people who have similar thoughts.

I understand, but it is meant to be long term permanent content. You can do almost the entire thing without having a ton of 6* champs. There’s just a couple paths out of 60 or whatever that require it. You have some time.

This is top level content that should be earned in my opinion. Most people want the easy way out. I don’t. Fair enough.

I have 10 six stars. Not a lot. Should be interesting. It’ll take some time to explore what I can before I have to worry about it.

I’m not sure it is the greatest design, but I’ll get in there and see. I don’t want to just get it done right away. That’s just me I guess.

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Ultra8529

Having read through most of the comments here, I think the best way to approach Act 6.2 is to simply ignore it until such time as 6*s are in fact readily available. The main issue I have is Kabam's outright misleading statement that 6*s are more available now to cavalier players, when the only way that can be so is through spending ridiculous amounts on Cavalier crystals.

I encourage everyone worried about this thread to simply ignore the 6* gated paths in Act 6.2. Kabam will hopefully realise that this method of artificially and arbitrarily restricting player choices is not popular. More importantly, it will let Kabam see that their gates are not leading to players stupidly spending items on sub-optimal match ups due to weak 6* rosters, and realise that players are in fact smarter than that, and simply waiting till they can clear the content for low or no spending.

My aim in the game since its inception has been to clear all content at minimal or zero personal cost. It gives extreme personal satisfaction to know that Kabam designed a quest/event to extract units out of me, but yet I beat it without spending. I encourage everyone to take the same view.

Ultra8529

Miike Can you also answer us how 5* and 6* shards became more accessible after 6.1. went out ? other than spending tons of money on cavalier crystals and other cash offers ?

You can get 600-1,000 units a week in arena (like always), and there is now access to crystals that give you a 12% chance or a 19% chance to pull either a 5* or 6*. And a significantly larger chance to pulll 4* which, when duped give 5* shards.

You either have to spend money or do arena and all the monthly quests possible. The sweet ain’t as sweet without the sour. People just don’t wanna do the grind, and don’t have the patience.
Very clever sleight of hand here combining 5* and 6* drop rates into your percentage figure of 12% and 19%. Nobody is really complaining about lack of 5*s, we are discussing the lack of 6*s contrary to Kabam's suggestion that 6*s are now more available. The facts are that cavalier crystals have been the only meaningful way in which 6*s have been made more accessible, and that is a 1% chance per 200 unit crystal, or 1.5% at 300 unit crystal. So on your best case scenario of 1000 units per week, that is 5 shots at a 1% chance for a 6*. On average you would need 100 crystals to open a 6%, that means 20 weeks of grinding 1000 units a week to get 1 6* out of 100 cavalier crystals. That is not at all a meaningful increase in the availability of 6*s to the main player base. Not to mention that the 6* pool is itself over 50% bad champions.

The game is based on statistics, and what Kabam is saying is that the new 6* gates will sideline non spending players as those players would need to grind about 20 weeks on average to have an additional 6* champ to have the chance to get into 6.2. And if you get a bad champ, well another 20 weeks ahead for your next 6* champ!

And in case you run the argument that 5* drop rates = more 5* dupes = more 6* shards = more 6*s. Let us just break that down. The drop rate for 5*s is 11% in the 200 unit cavalier crystals. Assuming you already have every single 5* duped (which most do not), and therefore every single 5* pull gives you 275 6* shards, you would be getting only 11 5*s out of the 100 cavalier crystals you get from a 20 week grind. That is 11 * 275 = 3,025 6* shards. So if you insist on being absolutely precise, a 20 week grind gives a player, on average, 1.3025 6*s.
You can clear most of 6.2 without going through gates. There’s like two paths that require four 6* champs I think. That path may be challenging. Sure. I’ll finish it in time.

Thanks for conceding the point.

TaZ_4178

Do there it is content from Kabam miikes own words did end game players what about us mid tier
If you're in the mid tier (not yet Cavalier), this content is not targeted to you. There will come a day where 6-Star Champions are more readily accessible by mid-tier players, but that's not quite yet.
Well at least I finally know who you guys consider as "EndGame" players now... thanks
They consider all Players. It just happens to be that this content is at the End-Game level.

Clearly from that post they consider Endgame players to be cavalier now... no offense but that's literally what mike said. I'm just glad we got some transparency...

Do there it is content from Kabam miikes own words did end game players what about us mid tier
If you're in the mid tier (not yet Cavalier), this content is not targeted to you. There will come a day where 6-Star Champions are more readily accessible by mid-tier players, but that's not quite yet.
Well at least I finally know who you guys consider as "EndGame" players now... thanks
They consider all Players. It just happens to be that this content is at the End-Game level.
Clearly from that post they consider Endgame players to be cavalier now... no offense but that's literally what mike said. I'm just glad we got some transparency...

Oh, missed the "who". My bad. Now I get what you're saying. I thought you meant they confirmed they only considered End-Game. Lol. My mistake.

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Both my alt accounts have 3x 5* R5s and I don't consider them end-game.

You have the link to where they mentioned Cavalier = End game? @AndiYTDE

Well @Akhilxcx, believe what you want then. 😊

Helicopter_dugdugdug

I don’t spend or grind and even i have 7 r5 5* . Agree with xNig on this point.

I will say it again: summoner satisfaction tends to increase with control over outcomes. You can’t put everything at the whim of the players lest the game fall apart. But there’s a balancing point the game needs to be continually trying to discover.

Dr. Zola
Along those lines, I've been thinking about the class gates more, in relation to champion availability. I think if Kabam is going to use class gates in 6.2, perhaps this should come coincident with classful champion crystals. I was specifically thinking about - lets assume the rewards for 6.2 will be similar to 6.1 - replacing the 5* shards with special 5* classful shards that you can use to buy 5* class-specific crystals. So while you're doing the paths in 6.2 for which you have good champs of the appropriate class, you could earn crystals that specifically targeted the classes you were weaker in.

The idea would be that when you earn 10k of these classful shards you can use them to buy any one of six different 5* crystals, each of which contained only one class. Since this would only be available to Cavalier players (the prerequisite for running 6.2 presumably), and since the focus on Act 6+ is to build rosters wider, this seems to be reasonable game option to give to the players.

This doesn't increase the number of 5* champs you can earn, but it does provide additional control over "steering" which ones you get to help fill in gaps in the roster. Perhaps this would allow players to "balance" their rosters when RNG goes against them without breaking anything important in the overall game framework. You don't have perfect control, but you have some control.
That would help me so much. I am an endgame player with over 600k champion rating, yet I only have 3 5* Mystic champions, all of which are trash for endgame content. This puts me in a gigantic disadvantage as my best Power-Control champion for Act 6 is my IMIW, who I really don´t want to use for power control. I don´t have a single champion who nullifies buffs (Which is why I´ve ranked certain 4* champions to fill these gaps).

I am completely fine with exploring my roster, but not when my roster is 100% RNG based. Until this day we´ve not had a single opportunity to choose our T4CC class outside real-money offers. The 5* crystal gives me one out of over 100 different champions, the chance of getting a decent 5* mystic champion is getting smaller and smaller every two weeks as in 2018 we only got one, who was Symbiote Supreme.

I think this idea could tie in with a new Sunday arena. The current Sunday Arenas are not really up to date as they only give out 2* champions (which become useless for new players within the first week), but what about an arena that maybe only Uncollected or Conquerors could access which allows us to grind 2.500 of these 5* class-shards per week due to milestones (not ranked rewards, milestones!)? That way we would get to have a chance of filling our roster gaps every 4 weeks, and an additional 5* champion every 4 weeks wouldn´t be too OP.

That way people would have more control over their roster and would have a better chance of meeting the Act 6.2 (and future) requirements
End game player with 2 5*R5s? Have you done 6.1 100% yet? Just curious.
Kabam literally said that Endgame Players are those who are Cavalier now... I've completed every piece of content Kabam has released in the past few years with ease in a short amount of time. So yes: I am an Endgame player. Plus, measuring a players progression level by their amount of R5 5*s is very poor.
Just to saitisfy you: No, I have not 100% 6.1 yet. Yes, I could do it. Why don't I do it? Because I save my Units for two things I consider to be more important: Act 6.2-6.4 completion & the 4th of July offers. After I'm done with the 6.4 completion I'll target 100% Act 6 as by that time it's very likely we have new upgraded crystals which save me even more units.
Don't waste your time debating with xNig about the definition of an endgame player, he once said in another post that people with 5* r4 champions are low tier players lol

And how difficult is it to get a 5* R4 nowadays? Lol