Don't Allow Revives/Potions in AW

lol I'm saying remove them from both sides to truly get an accurate picture on scoring and results. I get the point system is actually there to make the individual wars more even but it also makes it so skill is less important. Not saying paying will result directly to winning, I'm saying the fact you can pay for things that affect war is wrong.

That's fine, but just because you've got over it many times doesn't make you right. Does war come down to points? Yes.

Does purchasing items like boosts and revives and potions give you a better chance to get the maximum points on a node? Absolutely.

If the opposing alliance doesn't purchase items like your alliance does, are they at a disadvantage? Probably.

That's their choice. They're there for anyone to use. That's all in the strategy.

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No. You're paying to increase your chances of winning. The Win depends on what the Opponent puts up and does.

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Demonzfyre

So what happens to those that expierence disconnects and glitches that lead to lost health somehow? They can't revive or heal?

No, I'm just pointing out that the system is not to blame when people lose.

So what happens to those that expierence disconnects and glitches that lead to lost health somehow? They can't revive or heal?

Great point, I don't have the answer for that but phones are independent variables as everyone has an their own device. The potions and revives are a control variable because Kabam allows 15 items. I just think the ability to use them skews results even if only miniscule.

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No. You're paying to increase your chances of winning. The Win depends on what the Opponent puts up and does.

You literally just said you're paying to increase your chance of winning lol. If the other team can't pay or doesn't have that option you already have an advantage whether or not you end up getting that advantage doesn't matter. It's one that isn't guaranteed to be equal for all alliances. Skill and Participation should be the main determining factor in who wins an Alliance War, points system is all fine and good but shouldn't overpower.

No, both sides are allowed to Boost and use Items. That's completely open to both. It's not as if one side is allowed and one side is not. That's part of War. You will go up against Opponents that are more prepared. Which is how we learn and change our strategy. I'm just going to have to disagree here because I already fought this fight many times before, so that people aren't penalized for having to Revive. We have a system now that accounts for skill, but doesn't force people to play without Revs. Sorry, but our ethics are different.

Demonzfyre

So what happens to those that expierence disconnects and glitches that lead to lost health somehow? They can't revive or heal?
Great point, I don't have the answer for that but phones are independent variables as everyone has an their own device. The potions and revives are a control variable because Kabam allows 15 items. I just think the ability to use them skews results even if only miniscule.

If you dont allow pots or revives, you can't allow boosts either. While we are at it, 1 man teams only and it has to be your beat 2*.

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Fred_Joeity

So what happens to those that expierence disconnects and glitches that lead to lost health somehow? They can't revive or heal?
Great point, I don't have the answer for that but phones are independent variables as everyone has an their own device. The potions and revives are a control variable because Kabam allows 15 items. I just think the ability to use them skews results even if only miniscule.
If you dont allow pots or revives, you can't allow boosts either. While we are at it, 1 man teams only and it has to be your beat 2*.

I think a 2* War would be really fun. Kabam should do an event where you’re only allowed to use 3* and below to complete

Demonzfyre

So what happens to those that expierence disconnects and glitches that lead to lost health somehow? They can't revive or heal?
Great point, I don't have the answer for that but phones are independent variables as everyone has an their own device. The potions and revives are a control variable because Kabam allows 15 items. I just think the ability to use them skews results even if only miniscule.
If you dont allow pots or revives, you can't allow boosts either. While we are at it, 1 man teams only and it has to be your beat 2*.
I think a 2* War would be really fun. Kabam should do an event where you’re only allowed to use 3* and below to complete

It could be. I meant in the sense of normal defense and all you can use is a 2*. But I think those types of war events could be fun. I'm quite tired of war how it is. Same defenders in the same spot all the time. Its like how AQ used to be before it started changing. Map 5 at least.

SiriusBreak

I'm a little late to the party but it's a FACT that you CANNOT buy a win anymore. Attack bonuses are your bread and butter for the win. You can buy COMPLETION, no question. But the win... nope. Now MAYBE a reduction in items allotted would meet you in the middle? Or, create a pseudo defender kill point system after 6 kills on 1 node. That way, it would create SOME EXTRA challenge for those who buy their way through a fight and further reward skill. This way, there's a buffer zone for those situations when the player isn't top notch, but dedicated and skilled enough to drop X champ on X node in 6 or less kills. I've proposed this in the past but I doubt it'll ever happen. Honestly, it's really not needed either, but would make it more interesting for some IMO.

As @GroundedWisdom said, the current scoring system is much better than the previous. Also, diversity points are a grand thing IMO. Rewards Alliances for NOT spamming the grid with a ton of the same champs. It's lazy, and it really doesn't work in T5+ in my experience. We run a full 150 in diversity for a reason. It works. Removal of those would certainly be a step backwards. Kabam put those in place to promote diversity out there. We constantly are shifting our placement on the grid around, and can do so thanks to a diverse champion selection. There's a fair amount of good defenders out there. Some of which you wouldn't see anymore due to 'better' options if diversity wasn't awarded. Attack bonuses are your key to the win. You revive, you've OBVIOUSLY lost at least 1.

Item Usage can HELP win a war, but doesn't mean it's a make or break in many cases. Players invest in all tiers, even the top. Removal of the items isn't gonna work. Let's also remember that with Season 10, new Global Nodes are supposed to be added to the grid. This should in turn spice things up. If they rework the rewards, that would be EVEN BETTER. We've been running the same thing for the same rewards for FAR too long in AW. I feel this is where AW has gotten stale. I RARELY see anyone max out and use 15 items in a war at our level. It does OCCASIONALLY happen, but not often. I'm not sure what tier the OP is participating in, but T5-T3, some will be needed by most. Just the same, I rarely see all 15 being burnt by anyone.

@GroundedWisdom You're wrong if that's how the competitive scene should work. Competition by nature needs to be even or it breeds foul play.

@SiriusBreak Buying the win is irrelevant, the fact you purchasing something affects it at all even in the most minor of ways is wrong because it's not the same for each alliance.

InfinityM04

I understand both sides in regards to "purchasing something". What if one alliance hasn't been able to earn the extra units or loyalty or glory to buy the alliance potions. Whether they are FTP or just don't have it. They are going in AW with possibly a minor disadvantage unless they are confident they can one shot all the opposing team's champs and get all the bonus. They never needed the potions/revives. But I do see it in the rare case scenario where you can't buy more revives and the win depends on who's able to complete the last path....one alliance uses a revive and completes it the other does not.

BUT like ANY competition....resources matter. Soccer or basketball for example. One player had the money to buy new shoes. They broke them in and it able to give them more traction in regards to movement. The other players team, wasn't able to afford it and they are wearing shoes that are falling apart. It may not be fair, but there's nothing you can do about it.

An actual war, one country has the resources and money to buy high tech guns and ships and planes. The other doesn't. Not fair, but that's how it works. Games are a part of life. And life isn't fair. Any competition there's always going to be something that's not "fair".

@InfinityM04 Only rebuttal would be that your right there are a million different variables that affect the results to make competition unfair. Different devices I think is the biggest example of that, however Kabam can adjust the variable of revives and potions. This whole thing started because I was curious to see how it would affect scoring and results.

SiriusBreak

@GroundedWisdom You're wrong if that's how the competitive scene should work. Competition by nature needs to be even or it breeds foul play.

@SiriusBreak Buying the win is irrelevant, the fact you purchasing something affects it at all even in the most minor of ways is wrong because it's not the same for each alliance.

@albanyaussie You're overlooking the fact that ANYONE can do it. Just because they aren't AS invested, be it time, or cash, doesn't make it any less fair. That's ALL on the players and the Alliance. You cannot blame someone else's desire to win for your loss. Although occasionally outside circumstances can contribute to a loss, but I'll get into that shortly. Most of the time, they just wanted it more than you, and invested more to get it. Skill, items, strategy all are factors of investment in a war. Items alone will not get you there. Period. However, they can help, and they can be obtained WITHOUT PURCHASING. Yes, they CAN be purchased as this is a for profit company running this game. Expecting anything less is ridiculous.

Now, there's nothing wrong with it as 15 item uses are available to every player in the war. In essence, it IS the same for EVERY Alliance. Whether you CHOOSE to utilize them when needed is all on YOU. If you choose that it's not WORTH your time/effort to earn them, or money, that again, falls on YOU. There's nothing else that can be said. This is the state of things. You can cry it's not fair or right all the live long day, doesn't make you right, nor will it change things. Especially with certain aspects being beyond the player's control. So let's get into those aspects.

Start by looking at the reality of things. 1st and foremost, champs take damage, be it block, direct hits, unavoidable damage from various champs that for the most part are difficult to counter without X champ. You have 3 champs to work with, not your entire roster. Health pots and revives can be used elsewhere so why not in war? The fact they're limited levels the playing field. Anyone can allocate them in game via playtime in various aspects. That's a choice. We have some fantastically skilled players in our Alliance and guess what, occasionally items are needed by them due to an oopz or worse, something beyond their control. Onward to those things...

Champs occasionally get K.O.ed due to outside circumstances (game crashes, block drops due to bugs, etc, etc). So you're telling me players shouldn't have the option/opportunity to fix this? How is ANY of that SKILL based? One player's device is more stable than the other. Lag is a contributing factor that's occasionally beyond anyone's control. So that's all skill too right? Connectivity issues can leave your champ with HALF HEALTH (and an attack bonus lost taboot), but that's because someone wasn't skilled right? Do you see the flaws in your arguement yet? There's FAR too many factors beyond the player's control or skills that contribute to the necessity of item uses in war. Let's face it, no one is perfect. People make mistakes that are plenty skilled as previously stated. Sometimes things just happen.

Until this game works PERFECTLY and EVERY PLAYER has a device that's equal to the others... even then, there will ALWAYS be things that occur that are beyond the player's control. All the skills in the world will not stop the game from crashing, lagging, freezing, dropping the connection, misfires or incorrect outcome with correct control manipulation. But according to you, tough luck right? No items for you because that's not fair to those who won't invest in them. Truthfully, I don't spend cash on health pots and revives EVER. I EARN THEM. Anyone can do that. If they're not as invested, they won't. So, that's their choice. Eliminating choice in a matter isn't gonna help ANYTHING at all.

There's 2 MAJOR forms of LEGITIMATE FOUL PLAY. Those are game mods and piloting. 2 things that are strictly prohibited by Kabam and for good reason. Those are factors that shouldn't be in play. Mods are unfair. Period. Handing access to your account to someone who's 'more skilled' tips the scales too. Taking advantage of something that is in facf AVAILABLE to all is 100% fair and in the spirit of competition. Truly in the spirit of competition as that increases one's need to get better if they want to win. Increases the need to invest more time (if cash isn't something you want to invest) in the game. If you don't want to do that, don't complain that others do as they're simply more competitive than you.

Items allow players an increased chance to win, true. Seeing as how EVERY player has equal access to said items, there's nothing wrong with it. It's simply a matter of choice and desire. Nothing about item uses breeds 'foul play.' A lack thereof would likely increase a player's desire to use mods to overcome situations. Breeding 'foul play' as you put it. Situations whose outcomes would now be 100% outside their realm of control to fix/rectify when things go sideways due to the aforementioned problems. Explain how you would plan to overcome all those situations that are in fact outside all players control, skilled or otherwise without item uses. I would LOVE to hear logical and sound ideas on this matter.

@SiriusBreak While I love your effort and time spent in your rebuttal and your points are good. However, having 15 slots for example doesn't guarantee both alliances use said slots. Meaning by definition the team with more items, boosts, etc COULD have a better chance of winning. Even if they don't use said advantage or even lose that's not the point. The point is having "items" in a competitive scene that can be purchase, that can swing the difference and has nothing to do with being better than your opponent. I would like to see how the scoring would be affected without them. I don't have all the fixes and solutions but have to ask the question as to why this is allowed strictly in AW. Of course health potions and revives should be able to be used in every other aspect of the game because it's not competitive. The fact is it's a competition of the best alliance deserves the best rewards and it should be based off the points scoring, which at this moment can be affected by items you can purchase. Not a great like for like example but it would be like allowing fortnite skins have a competitive advantage opposed to being purely cosmetic. Of course game mods and piloting isn't allowed as that's blatant cheating, I'm not arguing it's this massive difference. The point is nothing like this should be in any competitive scene no matter how small the difference, any competitive game would be this way so why is contest different? You're bringing your own alliance and personal experience into the conversation when this is a much more general topic about competition. Also, no need to be condescending, if I'm right we're both trying to improve the game for all.

SiriusBreak

*sigh* @albanyaussie You essentially just repeated yourself. You also completely overlooked/bypassed all the points I made on uncontrollable circumstances. Care to explain how we could circumvent them without the use of items? I get where you're coming from, but it's simply not gonna happen. Due to the aforementioned issues, spirit of competition, investment, and now, the new map. With unavoidable damage nodes. All the skills in the world will not circumvent Starburst (just as example).

This is a competition that has options. Whether players choose to utilize them or not is on them. Removing choice because you've deemed it 'unfair' makes no sense in my eyes. Now please, new information. How, without items, do we get past all the circumstances that arise that are beyond the player's control? Some have it happen often. Some, not so much. Is that fair? Not by a longshot. Fact is, they are a factor in this equation. Simply ignoring this will not make it go away.

You want to know how removing items from AW would effect scoring? It would make it a mess as it stands. Until all is solid state, it would be unfair to remove choice. The choice is there, and it's not going anywhere. That much I'm certain of. Now, just for perspective measures, other aspects of this game is a competition, and also involves ways to get ahead using items.

AQ weekly score ranks. Effected by item usage. Items include health pots, revives, and boosts. All part of, Competition to get a higher score. Arena scores in relation to those rank rewards. Effected by item usage. Those include boosts of various types, and blowing units (if your roster isn't up to snuff) on recharging your highest point output champs. Again, in Competition. This time for shards, or shards with a Champion for your roster. All of which is an investment in your account, and in turn, an investment in your Alliance. War is no different. Singling it out is rather silly all things considered. Heck, even Dungeons indirectly increases a player's ability to contribute to a war by gaining stuff. Everything works together to build your account up. If a player doesn't want to be as competitive, they won't get as much out of the game. Anywhere. War is no exception. Nor should it be. Not altogether sure why you feel it should be.