Kabam...AW match making frustrations boiling over

GroundedWisdom · May 2019

They don't make it to Plat 3 without earning their way up there. 7 Mil has very little to do with it. Prestige isn't giving people the Wins to go up in Brackets. They're fighting and making their way up. I honestly don't know why people are so hung up on Alliance Rating. That's not at all the same as what people are working with in War. Alliances can lower their Rating by selling everything under a 5*. Rating has nothing to do with it when Rating is the total of all Champs, but really doesn't reflect what people are bringing to War. That's shown in the highest-Ranking Champs they have. If you want to judge the strength of the Ally in War, then you judge what they're bringing and what they do with it in their Wars. Not how high their Total Rating is. People only run 8 Champs out of the many they have.

KnightZero · May 2019

GroundedWisdom said:
They don't make it to Plat 3 without earning their way up there. 7 Mil has very little to do with it. Prestige isn't giving people the Wins to go up in Brackets. They're fighting and making their way up. I honestly don't know why people are so hung up on Alliance Rating. That's not at all the same as what people are working with in War. Alliances can lower their Rating by selling everything under a 5*. Rating has nothing to do with it when Rating is the total of all Champs, but really doesn't reflect what people are bringing to War. That's shown in the highest-Ranking Champs they have. If you want to judge the strength of the Ally in War, then you judge what they're bringing and what they do with it in their Wars. Not how high their Total Rating is. People only run 8 Champs out of the many they have.

I'm talking about 7 million rating with 5/50 champs on their profile. If you're telling me that they aren't facing easier matchups FOR A PLAT league, then you're obviously deluded.

Drooped2 said:

KnightZero said:
It doesn't matter if B is weaker than A or not. If you're making a 7 mill and a 20 mill alliance exist in the same bracket, the opponents should be of equal difficulty. Or multiplier should be different. Simple as that.
Team a shouod fight team b.

We will stick to master bracket here as it's the most glaring example.

Theres 20 allainces.
They should only fight other master allainces ever not even dipping into plat 3.
1 faces 2
3 faces 4
And so on down the line.
Obviously 2 of those lose 2 win.
Winners fight eachother loses eachother.

No allaince wouod gace eachother back to back here not possible.
And if you wanted could easily wrote a bypass for another war if 1 and 2 are the same allainces as round 1 then do 1/3 and 2/4 and such

I agree. If you want to play with the higher tier guys, you have to face them. That's how the system has been made. It's unfortunate, but making low level alliances reap higher rewards than equally deserving alliances just due to prestige is completely stupid.
We're currently facing alliances with minimum 4 5/65 champs for the last 3-4 wars. All our guys have 2-3 with a couple having more. Ratings are pretty skewed off at times as well just due to prestige matchups

Greywarden · May 2019

Andrewkole said:
Love the dialogue here guys. Thanks for contributing. Hopefully some of these concerns get heard.

Crossing fingers because my thread has gotten zero mods to comment on it

xNig · May 2019

Doesn’t mean they’re not reading it though. I’m guessing if any changes were to be made it’ll be either with the new map official announcement, or global defense tactics announcement.

GroundedWisdom · May 2019

xNig said:
Doesn’t mean they’re not reading it though. I’m guessing if any changes were to be made it’ll be either with the new map official announcement, or global defense tactics announcement.

I would be all for that, if they separated both systems, or devised a Placement Phase. Something needs to separate Matchmaking manipulation from Seasons progress.

GroundedWisdom · May 2019

I have a few other ideas as well, but I'm not sure people would like those either. Lol. One involves registering for Seasons and keeping regular Wars separate. Your Alliance registers, participates in a Placement Phase that places you in a Bracket that's appropriate for what you're bringing, and you're locked in for the Season. Another idea involves isolating Seasons progress and keeping it within Seasons. Allies start at the bottom and work their way up. Whatever progress they make is saved and carried over. The issue with that is Shells. There's really no perfect solution, but what you can do is minimize the damage people do. As it stands, no one is getting ahead because Allies are playing Yo-Yo with War Rating.

Batman05 · May 2019

Being stuck in bracket is a bad idea also, what do you do if someone leave the alliance and there replacement comes in with less good champs, what happens if someone makes a big rank up and has better champs now, the best way to match is by war ratings. You can’t just say because someone has high prestige they have to run their top champs in war. That’s 8 champs tied up. What if they want to run there too in aq or quests and but b team in war and use c team in defense. Or if they want to run there c team in war and place b team in defense. See prestige wars would be way worse that war ratings. And locking people in to brackets r bad to bc they go down if needed or move up if they want to push hard

GroundedWisdom · May 2019

Batman05 said:
Being stuck in bracket is a bad idea also, what do you do if someone leave the alliance and there replacement comes in with less good champs, what happens if someone makes a big rank up and has better champs now, the best way to match is by war ratings. You can’t just say because someone has high prestige they have to run their top champs in war. That’s 8 champs tied up. What if they want to run there too in aq or quests and but b team in war and use c team in defense. Or if they want to run there c team in war and place b team in defense. See prestige wars would be way worse that war ratings. And locking people in to brackets r bad to bc they go down if needed or move up if they want to push hard

Not stuck in the Bracket, locked in to the Alliance for the Season. Unless you want to forfeit Season Rewards. Which means shifting would have to be done in time. There are a number of ways you could work out Placement, and Rewards Brackets. Any how, there's many ideas you could implement. As the system is now, it's being abused because Off-Season changes can affect Season Matches.

GroundedWisdom · May 2019

War Rating is no longer the best way. It was, until people figured out they could water it down for easier Matches and Points for Seasons. Now War Rating is all over the place.

GroundedWisdom · May 2019

Drooped2 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Batman05 said:
Being stuck in bracket is a bad idea also, what do you do if someone leave the alliance and there replacement comes in with less good champs, what happens if someone makes a big rank up and has better champs now, the best way to match is by war ratings. You can’t just say because someone has high prestige they have to run their top champs in war. That’s 8 champs tied up. What if they want to run there too in aq or quests and but b team in war and use c team in defense. Or if they want to run there c team in war and place b team in defense. See prestige wars would be way worse that war ratings. And locking people in to brackets r bad to bc they go down if needed or move up if they want to push hard
Not stuck in the Bracket, locked in to the Alliance for the Season. Unless you want to forfeit Season Rewards. Which means shifting would have to be done in time. There are a number of ways you could work out Placement, and Rewards Brackets. Any how, there's many ideas you could implement. As the system is now, it's being abused because Off-Season changes can affect Season Matches.
Nah you cant lock people into an allaince if that's what you meant that's terrible.

Player a joins before season starts gets harassed and abused oh well sucks to be them it's only a month right..

Terrible. 5 wars is fine just balance the matchmaking and remove an aq metric from war.

It's not terrible, really. It just means you have to make sure you have your Ally locked in before Seasons. It's isolating progress. If someone is getting harassed and abused, they should leave either way. People are going to argue against any system that involves them taking responsibility and not being able to do whatever they want regardless of the consequences or effects on others. However in order to have a fair system, you have to prevent it from being abused as much as possible.

DTMelodicMetal · May 2019

Greywarden said:

Crossing fingers because my thread has gotten zero mods to comment on it

Ideally both this topic and the strong resurgence of mods in war are on Kabam’s radar

Ultra8529 · May 2019

Prestige wars make no sense whatsoever. It leads to a situation like we're seeing now where the master bracket is made up of teams of entirely different tiers who have never (and will never) face each other. Imagine a situation where you have 2 sets of 10 teams.

First 10: average prestige of 8.5k

Second 10: average prestige of 10.5k

Say each of these 10 allies start at tier 1 multiplier, and go on to beat everyone else around their prestige and win all matches but 3 or so. These 20 end up in the master bracket. But the alliances in the 8.5k prestige range have never faced the real top alliances in the 10.5k prestige range. Yet these alliances in the 8.5k prestige range are getting master rewards whereas there are probably another 10 alliances with 10k prestige who did not get it. And they did not get it because they have gotten beat up all season long by those in the 10.5k prestige range. Those with the 10k prestige would in all likelihood have beat up the 8.5k prestige teams if they had just matched, but the system absolutely refuses to let them match, so the 8.5k prestige teams keep getting easy matches while the 10k ones keep facing the strongest alliances with the highest prestige, and keep getting knocked down.

Ultra8529 · May 2019

GroundedWisdom said:
War Rating is no longer the best way. It was, until people figured out they could water it down for easier Matches and Points for Seasons. Now War Rating is all over the place.

There would be no manipulation if reward structure is modified so as to remove any incentive to tanking. Make lower multiplier wars undesirable for getting top rewards and nobody will tank in off season.

Keep prestige in AQ and war rating in war. War rating is the best indicator of war ability. If it is no longer indicating war ability because of tanking for example, then change the circumstances so that people either can't or won't tank. Its that simple. Don't add in an arbitrary extra criterion for matchmaking which then pulls it away from actual war ability being the guide.

QuikPik · May 2019

Here Kabam, I did some of your work. Red denotes alliances that you would not normally expect to be in the position they are in. Some of these alliance have people under level 60. Also, in Plat 1 and Master you would expect to see profiles with all R5 but that's not the case.

GroundedWisdom · May 2019

QuikPik said:
Here Kabam, I did some of your work. Red denotes alliances that you would not normally expect to be in the position they are in. Some of these alliance have people under level 60. Also, in Plat 1 and Master you would expect to see profiles with all R5 but that's not the case.

7 Allies on the board moved, and you call that a problem. That is exactly what happens when Allies are able to progress instead of being held and stifled by other means. Here's the problem. People are convinced that positions are owned and must coincide with the Alliance Rating, and must be what they were last Season. Only that's the opposite of being able to progress, and that's not a competiton at all. No one owns their spot on the board. Where people should be is where they work their way to. It's not a travesty that there's been movement on the board. That was the point.

GroundedWisdom · May 2019

Ultra8529 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
War Rating is no longer the best way. It was, until people figured out they could water it down for easier Matches and Points for Seasons. Now War Rating is all over the place.
There would be no manipulation if reward structure is modified so as to remove any incentive to tanking. Make lower multiplier wars undesirable for getting top rewards and nobody will tank in off season.

Keep prestige in AQ and war rating in war. War rating is the best indicator of war ability. If it is no longer indicating war ability because of tanking for example, then change the circumstances so that people either can't or won't tank. Its that simple. Don't add in an arbitrary extra criterion for matchmaking which then pulls it away from actual war ability being the guide.

No. There is always manipulation where people can because no matter the Rewards, people get greedy. They're never enough.

Cobs · May 2019

Adjust the points and tanking goes away. If a loss in tier1 is worth more then a win in tier2 then tanking/shell swapping no longer exists. Tier based off war rating and matches based off rsting again as well. A logical and effective way to solve this for everyone. Make war ratings great again. #allwarratingsmatter

rwhack · May 2019

Anyone see who is 2nd and 3rd? Not sure factoring in prestige was smart.

Has anyone in the top 20 matched them LOL

Whatever.

Cobs · May 2019

GroundedWisdom said:

QuikPik said:
Here Kabam, I did some of your work. Red denotes alliances that you would not normally expect to be in the position they are in. Some of these alliance have people under level 60. Also, in Plat 1 and Master you would expect to see profiles with all R5 but that's not the case.

7 Allies on the board moved, and you call that a problem. That is exactly what happens when Allies are able to progress instead of being held and stifled by other means. Here's the problem. People are convinced that positions are owned and must coincide with the Alliance Rating, and must be what they were last Season. Only that's the opposite of being able to progress, and that's not a competiton at all. No one owns their spot on the board. Where people should be is where they work their way to. It's not a travesty that there's been movement on the board. That was the point.

People are convinced that college teams shouldnt be making it to the super-bowl just because they have a perfect record...but you know, there not playing other NFL teams. This is the problem. If you dont get it by now i duno what to say

GroundedWisdom · May 2019

Cobs said:
Adjust the points and tanking goes away. If a loss in tier1 is worth more then a win in tier2 then tanking/shell swapping no longer exists. Tier based off war rating and matches based off rsting again as well. A logical and effective way to solve this for everyone. Make war ratings great again. #allwarratingsmatter

No, adjusting the Points doesn't stop people from Tanking. They do it every Off-Season now like it's mandatory to progress. As long as one system can be manipulated for some kind of advantage by the other, it will happen. The only way you're going to solve that is to separate War Ratings, or freeze Seasons. As long as the two are connected, it won't stop.

Cobs · May 2019

Lol so you literally have no clue why people tank or what your talking about. If it wasn’t possible to make masters starting in tier2 at start of the season then tanking/shelling wouldn’t exist. Thats the loophole ffs

GroundedWisdom · May 2019

Cobs said:
Lol so you literally have no clue why people tank or what your talking about. If it wasn’t possible to make masters starting in tier2 at start of the season then tanking/shelling wouldn’t exist. Thats the loophole ffs

I know exactly why Tanking exists. Now you're just being argumentative. People try to get an unfair advantage, all in the name of trying to go up, but the motivating factor is greed. That's what causes people to do anything regardless of the consequences, just for Rewards. What it does to the rest of the system is stifle growth because you stop up everything else under you from progressing. Back and forth with War Ratings, over and over, and its a self-fulfilling chain effect. People are ruining the entire competition just to get ahead a spot or two.

Kabam...AW match making frustrations boiling over

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