Dungeon Griefing Needs A Fix!!!

KerayZKerayZ Member Posts: 220 ★★★
in General Discussion
When you cue up for dungeons with "Find A Partner" we have people who do not even meet the minimum requirements for the dungeon being able to cue. This means you are most likely expecting failure in completion of the dungeons. Personally I still feel dungeons are important and the crystals are worth grinding for since you get to target specific champions into your roster. Compared to the basic 5* and the new featured crystals this is still a great way to obtain good 5*'s to help people clear content if you are lucky.

The way the current system works you are thrown into Room 1 of the dungeon without seeing their champions first. You cant even discuss the lanes you'll be taking and therefore you have to build your team around handling either lane. This limits your team choices but you gotta get them done so you cue up.

As of now you can cue up and not even meet the minimum requirements for the dungeon. This simply wastes time and also puts your champions on a 4 day cooldown. Essentially this is a griefing system being abused. I can literally cue up with 4* 4/40 champs for dungeon 7. I have literally no chance of getting far but the game allows it. If you do not meet the minimum requirements you should not be able to cue for that dungeon. That simple. Yet they can. Horrible experience.

The way the "find a partner" system is designed I strongly believe that room 1 of any dungeon should be a free-for-all. You can then decide if you want to even play with the person and advance to the next room. If you choose to move on to room 2 with the other player then at that point your champions should be locked and put on refresh cooldown of 4 days.

The only other solution would be to have the person join your lobby after you hit "find a partner" rather then being thrown into room 1 with them right away. I highly doubt this can be done with the current system being coded and created to join right into the room so I believe the first solution of room 1 free-for-all is the only proper fix.

Regardless this has to be fixed and lets take a look at why;

4* 3/30 champions clearly show not being able to cue for Dungeon 7(thank god)


4* 4/40s are STILL able to cue for Dungeon 7! Guarunteed fail....


Even when the requirements are met with a 5* defeat is still in the air(this person lost all 3 champs room 1)


So as you can see there is a problem. This system can be abused and we should be allowed to have the choice of dipping out in room 1 to counteract against this griefing. @Kabam Miike @Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Lyra
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Comments

  • KerayZKerayZ Member Posts: 220 ★★★
    Sorry the approval process of the post made the post come in so late I didn't even notice that it did lol.
  • SiriusBreakSiriusBreak Member, Guardian Posts: 2,156 Guardian
    Just a heads up, you're not supposed to tag the mods @KerayZ . Now, onto the subject matter at hand. Honestly, I agree. We should have a way to exit a Dungeon in the event the matchmaker doesn't give us someone who can keep up. Now, to avoid this, I would advise you to find a Dungeon partner you can rely on. Most of my Alliance mates work together on Dungeons. We communicate via Line and plan accordingly time, difficulty, and lane wise during. It's much more efficient.

    It would be nice if they worked on the chat functions and allowed a way out that didn't involve a penalty of champs going into cooldown. Provided you exited before doing any battles. I think if you allowed players to do 1 room and leave, this would UNDOUBTEDLY be exploited. So I doubt that will ever happen with the way people tend to work loopholes in this game.

    Honestly, prior to you saying this, I was unaware of how the random matchmaking worked in Dungeons. It does seem odd that you can't communicate pre-entry to the 1st Room. Planning is EVERYTHING when it comes to this game IMO. Well, if you want things to go in your favor anyway. You can work off the hip, but it's much more risky. Perhaps a bit of this can be utilized to better the Dungeon experience.
  • KerayZKerayZ Member Posts: 220 ★★★
    edited July 2019
    Ugh i wish i could go back and fix that. Didn't know you couldn't tag them. Sorry about that.

    I wouldnt want you to be able to complete room one and just leave with the points. If you accept points you should def go on cooldown with your champs.
  • SiriusBreakSiriusBreak Member, Guardian Posts: 2,156 Guardian
    That's a fair way to do it! Accept the points and move on, or ditch the points and start over without your champs going into cooldown. Now, I could see the other party getting a little salty because of this, but whatever. If they weren't going to be able to keep up, it is what it is. This could help with those annoying Dungeon laggers that get wiped out in Room 1, and in turn, screwing you out of your champs.

    On the note of the mod tags, as you stated, you didn't know. Now you do! It's all good. No harm, no real foul here. As a Community Guardian I'm trying to help spread the word without making a scene of it. To be honest, I used to do it too before I knew so it does happen. They do read the majority of posts here. As there's a ton of them, it's hard for them to comment on everything. Not to mention they're not always at liberty to say certain things, nor can they take every suggestion they find to the team. This one however is definitely up there on the good idea list IMO. Hopefully it gets considered for down the road!
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,689 ★★★★★
    edited July 2019
    The only true way to prevent this is to pair up with someone on your Friends List that you know can keep up with you. It's general population, which means a range of people we don't know, all different levels of ability and progress. Fact is, we can't make people be of equal strength. Sometimes people will die out. Also, people go AFK, but at times that could be because they crashed. Been there. Something could come up. Life happens. The only real way to prevent it is to do Matchmaking for the Bonus, and have a healthy selection of Dungeon Friends.
  • JaipalJaipal Member Posts: 10 ★
    Why not do some changes like selecting champions after having a partner Chosen. I think this slight change is an answer to your problem.
  • JaipalJaipal Member Posts: 10 ★
    edited July 2019
    Now will kabam do it?? I think not as most of the hardcore dungeon players have buddies to play with so this problem doesn't get much addressed. So basically either make this topic attract a lot of attention so that this change can be of some worth to take the time for kabam to make the changes or just find some partners.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,689 ★★★★★
    KerayZ said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    The only true way to prevent this is to pair up with someone on your Friends List that you know can keep up with you. It's general population, which means a range of people we don't know, all different levels of ability and progress. Fact is, we can't make people be of equal strength. Sometimes people will die out. Also, people go AFK, but at times that could be because they crashed. Been there. Something could come up. Life happens. The only real way to prevent it is to do Matchmaking for the Bonus, and have a healthy selection of Dungeon Friends.

    Appreciate the obvious answer but that does not change the quality of life in their random dungeon finder. Let's stick to the topic at hand rather then derail it.This thread is not about playing dungeons with your friends. This thread is about using their tool they provide and the griefing issues that exist with it.

    Do you have anything you can add to the random finder that would resolve these issues other then "playing with a friend"?

    Also how do feel about the couple solutions provided that would increase quality of life in this area for the game?
    I'm not derailing anything. I disagree that anything needs to be changed. When you Match with random people, that's what can happen. They can't guarantee people will last, or stay, or be of equal Rating. There are ranges for PI, which are selected based on what's possible to get through the Rooms. It's just one of those things we can't control. People will sometimes flop.
  • PulyamanPulyaman Member Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★
    I started out when dungeon came out real excited and was hitting all the milestones, this was when i did not have access to 5 star dungeon crystals because my PI was too low. I usually go with random partner because no one in my alliance plays in my timeline, and sometimes it is difficult to co ordinate. Main problem was no one other than me was interested. I think the problem was magnified when they increased the cool down timers. Earlier if i fail on day 1, i can try on day 2. Now I cant do that, through no fault of my own. So, yes i think random partner finding needs to be changed
  • SiriusBreakSiriusBreak Member, Guardian Posts: 2,156 Guardian
    GroundedWisdom said:

    KerayZ said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    The only true way to prevent this is to pair up with someone on your Friends List that you know can keep up with you. It's general population, which means a range of people we don't know, all different levels of ability and progress. Fact is, we can't make people be of equal strength. Sometimes people will die out. Also, people go AFK, but at times that could be because they crashed. Been there. Something could come up. Life happens. The only real way to prevent it is to do Matchmaking for the Bonus, and have a healthy selection of Dungeon Friends.

    Appreciate the obvious answer but that does not change the quality of life in their random dungeon finder. Let's stick to the topic at hand rather then derail it.This thread is not about playing dungeons with your friends. This thread is about using their tool they provide and the griefing issues that exist with it.

    Do you have anything you can add to the random finder that would resolve these issues other then "playing with a friend"?

    Also how do feel about the couple solutions provided that would increase quality of life in this area for the game?
    I'm not derailing anything. I disagree that anything needs to be changed. When you Match with random people, that's what can happen. They can't guarantee people will last, or stay, or be of equal Rating. There are ranges for PI, which are selected based on what's possible to get through the Rooms. It's just one of those things we can't control. People will sometimes flop.
    That's just the point though. You've essentially identified the issues and said there's nothing wrong their existence. It's a bit contradictory yah know? You can see that these things are burning players. You can see that it's not helping. So why leave it as is?

    Yes, I do agree that as it stands, it's better to stick with someone you know vs utilizing the random matchup. So why not improve upon the system so players that wish to utilize it can stop getting burned by it? Occasionally things can be improved. This in my opinion is one of those things that can use a bit of improvement. Especially considering the increased cooldown timers.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,689 ★★★★★
    Pulyaman said:

    @GroundedWisdom Considering I see you want no change in any of the current formats, I don't understand the need to respond at all.Instead of saying "it is what it is, deal with it", just hit the disagree button and move on.

    This is a conversation. People express views in it. The Disagree Button is not a way to avoid actual conversations, which have always been the goal of the Forum. Using our words has always and will always be encouraged in a constructive fashion.
    I get that it's frustrating, but we can't control it. There are Players of all different ranges and experience playing, and there's no getting around being Matched with people who don't play the same as us when using a Feature that gives random Matches. I really do understand. I hate when people ignore Nodes requested. I have a choice. I can either run it anyway, or leave. As annoying as it is, no one is perfect. The only way to prevent it is to add people that play on our level and play with them. One of the largest goals has always been connecting people in a game mode designed to connect new people. That comes with the good and the bad.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,689 ★★★★★
    SiriusBreak said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    KerayZ said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    The only true way to prevent this is to pair up with someone on your Friends List that you know can keep up with you. It's general population, which means a range of people we don't know, all different levels of ability and progress. Fact is, we can't make people be of equal strength. Sometimes people will die out. Also, people go AFK, but at times that could be because they crashed. Been there. Something could come up. Life happens. The only real way to prevent it is to do Matchmaking for the Bonus, and have a healthy selection of Dungeon Friends.

    Appreciate the obvious answer but that does not change the quality of life in their random dungeon finder. Let's stick to the topic at hand rather then derail it.This thread is not about playing dungeons with your friends. This thread is about using their tool they provide and the griefing issues that exist with it.

    Do you have anything you can add to the random finder that would resolve these issues other then "playing with a friend"?

    Also how do feel about the couple solutions provided that would increase quality of life in this area for the game?
    I'm not derailing anything. I disagree that anything needs to be changed. When you Match with random people, that's what can happen. They can't guarantee people will last, or stay, or be of equal Rating. There are ranges for PI, which are selected based on what's possible to get through the Rooms. It's just one of those things we can't control. People will sometimes flop.
    That's just the point though. You've essentially identified the issues and said there's nothing wrong their existence. It's a bit contradictory yah know? You can see that these things are burning players. You can see that it's not helping. So why leave it as is?

    Yes, I do agree that as it stands, it's better to stick with someone you know vs utilizing the random matchup. So why not improve upon the system so players that wish to utilize it can stop getting burned by it? Occasionally things can be improved. This in my opinion is one of those things that can use a bit of improvement. Especially considering the increased cooldown timers.
    I did not say there was nothing wrong. I said it comes with the territory of gen pop. I've even seen suggestions like punishing people for it. A bit extreme if you ask me. Sometimes people dud out. It's just something we have to accept if we're using Matchmaking.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,689 ★★★★★
    There may be some kind of precaution, however. For example, they could implement a No Room/No Use Feature, where you don't lose Recharges if you don't make it past the first Room.
  • Mathking13Mathking13 Member Posts: 988 ★★★
    Okay. How about this simple potential fix.
    Basically, if you are matchmaking with random people, you have to confirm that you're satisfied with your partner. If both players don't agree with their partner, the matchmaking system goes and finds them another match. It might not fix ALL the issues, but at least it might fix that problem the OP is having.
    And yeah I can definitely understand the whole 'room 1 dropout but you don't get the points if you do that' argument.

    But I wonder... are the matchmaking rewards really important enough that people like the OP would play with random people rather than people that they know can handle the dungeons they're running? There's multiple LINE and Discord-based chat rooms dedicated to finding dungeon partners who are willing and able to keep up with you...
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,689 ★★★★★
    Mathking13 said:

    Okay. How about this simple potential fix.
    Basically, if you are matchmaking with random people, you have to confirm that you're satisfied with your partner. If both players don't agree with their partner, the matchmaking system goes and finds them another match. It might not fix ALL the issues, but at least it might fix that problem the OP is having.
    And yeah I can definitely understand the whole 'room 1 dropout but you don't get the points if you do that' argument.

    But I wonder... are the matchmaking rewards really important enough that people like the OP would play with random people rather than people that they know can handle the dungeons they're running? There's multiple LINE and Discord-based chat rooms dedicated to finding dungeon partners who are willing and able to keep up with you...

    Yeah I agree. Myself, I only use it if I'm doing the Bonus or pressed for time. You take what you can get with that, pretty much. I get that it's frustrating. No arguments there. My main issue is that people are going to fail. They are allowed to try and fail. When we start getting into weeding others because they can't keep up, that takes it very far from the goal of Dungeons.
  • KerayZKerayZ Member Posts: 220 ★★★
    Mathking13 said:

    Okay. How about this simple potential fix.
    Basically, if you are matchmaking with random people, you have to confirm that you're satisfied with your partner. If both players don't agree with their partner, the matchmaking system goes and finds them another match. It might not fix ALL the issues, but at least it might fix that problem the OP is having.
    And yeah I can definitely understand the whole 'room 1 dropout but you don't get the points if you do that' argument.

    But I wonder... are the matchmaking rewards really important enough that people like the OP would play with random people rather than people that they know can handle the dungeons they're running? There's multiple LINE and Discord-based chat rooms dedicated to finding dungeon partners who are willing and able to keep up with you...

    Yeah I definitely would Mathking. I'd use it quite often if no one joined my lobby within 5 mins. Sometimes you gotta get things done when you can get them done. I truly believe, if there was no risk in jumping in this random cue, alot more folks would do it.

    I don't think its that hard of a quality fix for a better experience with that tool. I think more folks would use this over going to line chats and adding/deleting friends to grab a partner. I've had random matches that were good and well matched.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,689 ★★★★★
    KerayZ said:

    "Yeah I agree. Myself, I only use it if I'm doing the Bonus or pressed for time. You take what you can get with that, pretty much. I get that it's frustrating. No arguments there. My main issue is that people are going to fail. They are allowed to try and fail. When we start getting into weeding others because they can't keep up, that takes it very far from the goal of Dungeons" @GroundedWisdom

    For the folks joining "innocently". Basically griefing without realizing they are griefing. Those rare gems of human beings in the world. So precious.

    They will quickly learn that, when folks tell them they are not strong enough, and leave their dungeon. They need to lower their dungeon level a bit. Not that big of a deal.

    But let's not ignore the griefers for those poor innocent few.

    Dungeons aren't a competitve game mode. They were introduced so that people could network and meet others, and progress. For example, Solo Players that wanted to connect with other people and earn Champs. We can't stop people from trying.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,689 ★★★★★
    KerayZ said:

    "Dungeons aren't a competitve game mode. They were introduced so that people could network and meet others, and progress. For example, Solo Players that wanted to connect with other people and earn Champs. We can't stop people from trying." @GroundedWisdom

    Of course they can try. They can cue up with their 4* 4/40 champs. Does that person get to determine if my awesome team goes on a 4 day cooldown?

    I will have that wonderful dungeon experience with someone who also wants to have a good dungeon experience. I will gladly invest my 4 day cooldown into that. So we already have an answer to that. To which you agreed and put your own spin on it. Are you retracting your agreement? Kind of confused. You're still trying to continue a conversation you already agreed to.

    A simple fix allows everyone to have a wonderful dungeon experience and cancels out the griefing. Win win. Let's hope we can get them to fix it or see that its worth trying.

    Unless...you're saying you agree but wait...you don't agree but wait....you agree but...um. yeah. Oh wait you agree but its not worth fixing but oh wait....let's...um.

    Thanks for your contribution for a possible idea to fix the issue though!



    There IS a fix that allows for a wonderful experience you want. It's playing with people you know on your List.
  • EbbtideEbbtide Member Posts: 292 ★★
    There could be 4 settings: Invite a Friend, Host a Match, Find a Match, Let's Do This.

    Invite a Friend is what we already have.

    Host a Match is where you select your trio and Dungeon Level, and then open a matchmaking setup. You'll be notified when a match has been offered. You should then be allowed to see your potential partners 3 champions and either accept or reject them. Being aware of their fighters, rating and class selection should help reduce some frustration of the match.

    Find a Match is where you start the matchmaking process after choosing your trio and Dungeon Level, seeking a host to play with. A screen like Arena's match ups should appear, where you can see 3 players who are hosting a match and their full trio (no question marks), letting you then decide to join one of the 3 matches. If you reject those 3 players, matchmaking begins again, seeking 3 new options.

    Let's Do This should be the standard rapid, random partner, take what you can get, matchmaking.

    In the two suggested new setups you would be aware of your potential partner and what they bring to the dungeon, allowing easier decisions to how they may or may not work well with what you seek. Still not flawless, but better to know ahead for paths and expectations of how well they may perform in Dungeon 5, 6, or 7. Also, it would be really useful to see how far along they are with points, so that you don't join into a Dungeon where someone only needs like 1000 points and quits after one or a few rooms, costing you your trio.

    Design changes like this would be a valuable way of giving the players options to enjoy that mode.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,689 ★★★★★
    KerayZ said:

    "There IS a fix that allows for a wonderful experience you want. It's playing with people you know on your List. " @GroundedWisdom @SiriusBreak

    It's at this point I believe its clear you are trying to create a debate and spin narratives outside the topic at hand. So i'm tagging the guardian. The topic is not dungeons with your friends. Its the random dungeon finder and griefing. He also asked you to stay on topic if i'm not mistaken.

    We are attempting to make this game mode and tool a little better. You are just out for a long winded side debate imo. I do appreciate the contributions of a possible fix though. I mean that.

    This was your possible fix

    "There may be some kind of precaution, however. For example, they could implement a No Room/No Use Feature, where you don't lose Recharges if you don't make it past the first Room. "

    Thank you.

    I'm not spinning anything. I expressed my view. I also offered a suggestion of how to prevent cooldown issues. My view still stands, and I've been nothing but on topic. Just because people don't agree with your opinion doesn't mean they're trying to spin narratives or take the Thread off-topic. People will disagree on here.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Member Posts: 8,675 ★★★★★
    SiriusBreak said:

    Just a heads up, you're not supposed to tag the mods @KerayZ .

    Where does it say you can't tag the mods? I feel like it did at one time but I looked for it recently and couldn't find it. You aren't supposed to address threads to mods, but why make them taggable if you can't tag them? @Kabam Miike any thoughts?
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Member Posts: 8,675 ★★★★★
    @KerayZ I don't know what dungeon level you run and I don't use random often, but I have found that d7 random tends to give good partners. I've done 4 and 5 rooms with randoms.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Member Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    edited July 2019
    Meanwhile Kabam checks their data to find out iLac is the only person queuing into d7 with 4/40 teams. 🤣😂🤣

    Seriously I only do pick up dungeons and people just do not do this, ever. You are far more likely to get someone who just flat out cannot use their r4+ 5* champs than some guy who queues with a weak team; and even then some convoluted queuing scheme will not solve the problem of people unable to do d7 with whatever champion they may have.

    Non issue, manufactured problem, needs no solution, and a waste of time/electrons.

    Let Forest Gump simplify it for you. “Dungeons are like a box of chocolates...deal with it.”
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