Why are 4 stars not allowed in Act 6?

phillgreen · July 2019

If it was a progression gate designed around roster depth there would be a numbered gate, you need xx amount of this rarity in your roster to pass in a similar way to how eligibility for the 5* dungeon crystal is implemented. The path gates where a certain number of champs are required will slow exploration but completion should not be gated at all, even if it means taking 4*, as long as the roster depth issue is addressed fairly.

Moot point, I won't be there for a long time but those with decent numbers of 5* and mostly trash are at a distinct disadvantage to those with fewer and better champs.

Nothing will change about act6 so we can either do or do not, there is no try.

GroundedWisdom · July 2019

The first Chapter is 5* and 6* only. Then more refined for the second Chapter. That's exactly what it is.

Swimmer15 · July 2019

So literally could lock you up for year+ trying get lucky enough pull 2-3 champs (me guessing Medusa can do it without heimdall idk ).. everyone recommends avoid it if don't have Heimdal or Hype.

Dshu · July 2019

Arguing logic with gw is pointless. He refuses to see any opinion other than that kabam does no wrong. For someone who claims to be unbiased his posts will always side with kabam and derail threads. As stated previously if the gate was meant to be a fair progression of you roster based gate it would not have narrowed options down to needing certain synergies or champs to pass the chapter bosses. Arguing this with someone who is still not yet able to access this level of content but feels they understand it is like arguing colors with a blind person. (Except the blind person is probably not going to derail the discussion)

phillgreen · July 2019

GroundedWisdom said:
The first Chapter is 5* and 6* only. Then more refined for the second Chapter. That's exactly what it is.

Perhaps I wasn't clear.

Roster depth in my context purely means number of champs owned which seems like a reasonable measure of depth/effort, not whether they are useful or used in act6 which limits progress based on RNG.

Dshu · July 2019

GroundedWisdom said:
The first Chapter is 5* and 6* only. Then more refined for the second Chapter. That's exactly what it is.

Thanks for clearing this up I was confused with what the gate was. Now I know and knowing is half the battle 🤯

GroundedWisdom · July 2019

phillgreen said:

GroundedWisdom said:
The first Chapter is 5* and 6* only. Then more refined for the second Chapter. That's exactly what it is.
Perhaps I wasn't clear.

Roster depth in my context purely means number of champs owned which seems like a reasonable measure of depth/effort, not whether they are useful or used in act6 which limits progress based on RNG.

Well, my point was that it is somewhat like that. You have a certain number of 5*s of Classes, and a certain number of 6*s in Chapter 2. Having the right counter really isn't a progress gate so much as it is Fight-specific.

Zuro · July 2019

Why should RNG justify where someone progression goes.

phillgreen · July 2019

@Groundedwisdom Its nothing like that because if I have 50 trash 5* that wont ever be ranked beyond R3 versus someone else with 10 really good champs then I am still at a disadvantage even though my alleged progression is better.

I think it was a terrible idea that was badly implemented but since I'm not there I will stop clogging the thread.

MercLieutenant · July 2019

Its a test to show how your roster can beat on hard contents of the game.

GroundedWisdom · July 2019

phillgreen said:
@Groundedwisdom Its nothing like that because if I have 50 trash 5* that wont ever be ranked beyond R3 versus someone else with 10 really good champs then I am still at a disadvantage even though my alleged progression is better.

I think it was a terrible idea that was badly implemented but since I'm not there I will stop clogging the thread.

It's not about advantage or disadvantage. It's about separating progress by way of what we have in our Roster. I'm also going to have to disagree that it's a terrible idea. I'd say it's doing exactly what it's meant to. Some are getting through, and some don't have what they need yet.

Zuro · July 2019

GroundedWisdom said:

phillgreen said:
@Groundedwisdom Its nothing like that because if I have 50 trash 5* that wont ever be ranked beyond R3 versus someone else with 10 really good champs then I am still at a disadvantage even though my alleged progression is better.

I think it was a terrible idea that was badly implemented but since I'm not there I will stop clogging the thread.
It's not about advantage or disadvantage. It's about separating progress by way of what we have in our Roster. I'm also going to have to disagree that it's a terrible idea. I'd say it's doing exactly what it's meant to. Some are getting through, and some don't have what they need yet.

Which should not be the case

GroundedWisdom · July 2019

Zuro said:

GroundedWisdom said:

phillgreen said:
@Groundedwisdom Its nothing like that because if I have 50 trash 5* that wont ever be ranked beyond R3 versus someone else with 10 really good champs then I am still at a disadvantage even though my alleged progression is better.

I think it was a terrible idea that was badly implemented but since I'm not there I will stop clogging the thread.
It's not about advantage or disadvantage. It's about separating progress by way of what we have in our Roster. I'm also going to have to disagree that it's a terrible idea. I'd say it's doing exactly what it's meant to. Some are getting through, and some don't have what they need yet.
Which should not be the case

Yes. It should. It's not EQ or some other piece of content that is meant to lump everyone in, in some kind of way that everyone should be able to do it with what they have. It's the next level of Storymode. There's really no point in creating a new level unless it separates people in some way at first. It's meant to be grown into. Not done by everyone the moment it's released.

GroundedWisdom · July 2019

What I'm defending is a design that takes time to complete. Money isn't the only way to get Champs. You can also put the work in and wait. I don't use the term very often, but this whole idea that every piece of content released must be done with what you have in your Roster, or it's a poor design is.....well, entitled. You're going to have to work towards something now and then. Just like the VAST majority of the game does, save for the top percentile that literally waits on nothing because they have everything.

Zuro · July 2019

GroundedWisdom said:

Zuro said:

GroundedWisdom said:

phillgreen said:
@Groundedwisdom Its nothing like that because if I have 50 trash 5* that wont ever be ranked beyond R3 versus someone else with 10 really good champs then I am still at a disadvantage even though my alleged progression is better.

I think it was a terrible idea that was badly implemented but since I'm not there I will stop clogging the thread.
It's not about advantage or disadvantage. It's about separating progress by way of what we have in our Roster. I'm also going to have to disagree that it's a terrible idea. I'd say it's doing exactly what it's meant to. Some are getting through, and some don't have what they need yet.
Which should not be the case
Yes. It should. It's not EQ or some other piece of content that is meant to lump everyone in, in some kind of way that everyone should be able to do it with what they have. It's the next level of Storymode. There's really no point in creating a new level unless it separates people in some way at first. It's meant to be grown into. Not done by everyone the moment it's released.

Here is what they should have done they should have made certain gates in each quest that restricts 4 star usage but for them to ban it as a whole isn't logical

Zuro · July 2019

GroundedWisdom said:
What I'm defending is a design that takes time to complete. Money isn't the only way to get Champs. You can also put the work in and wait. I don't use the term very often, but this whole idea that every piece of content released must be done with what you have in your Roster, or it's a poor design is.....well, entitled. You're going to have to work towards something now and then. Just like the VAST majority of the game does, save for the top percentile that literally waits on nothing because they have everything.

I don think you understand people are fine with gates but not the banning of 4 stars for the whole dang thing

GroundedWisdom · July 2019

Zuro said:

GroundedWisdom said:
What I'm defending is a design that takes time to complete. Money isn't the only way to get Champs. You can also put the work in and wait. I don't use the term very often, but this whole idea that every piece of content released must be done with what you have in your Roster, or it's a poor design is.....well, entitled. You're going to have to work towards something now and then. Just like the VAST majority of the game does, save for the top percentile that literally waits on nothing because they have everything.
I don think you understand people are fine with gates but not the banning of 4 stars for the whole dang thing

You can't rely on 4*s for the entire duration of the game. This is the end of the current arc. There's more to come. They won't carry through.

Zuro · July 2019

GroundedWisdom said:

Zuro said:

GroundedWisdom said:
What I'm defending is a design that takes time to complete. Money isn't the only way to get Champs. You can also put the work in and wait. I don't use the term very often, but this whole idea that every piece of content released must be done with what you have in your Roster, or it's a poor design is.....well, entitled. You're going to have to work towards something now and then. Just like the VAST majority of the game does, save for the top percentile that literally waits on nothing because they have everything.
I don think you understand people are fine with gates but not the banning of 4 stars for the whole dang thing
You can't rely on 4*s for the entire duration of the game. This is the end of the current arc. There's more to come. They won't carry through.

Even if they don't carry at least let us bring them it's not hurting anybody

Reference · July 2019

I don’t know the real intention of such progression gate, yet I can see the direct result is that it forces you to slow down 4* rank up and focus all your resources on 5*/6*.

Just my assumption for Act 6 development, if kabam need to choose between (1) Affordable tough opponents but limit your choice of champs and (2) Not limit your choice of champs but you need to face extremely tough champs which can’t be defeated with 4*, I’d prefer kabam choosing (1)....... which is the current status.

GroundedWisdom · July 2019

Zuro said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Zuro said:

GroundedWisdom said:
What I'm defending is a design that takes time to complete. Money isn't the only way to get Champs. You can also put the work in and wait. I don't use the term very often, but this whole idea that every piece of content released must be done with what you have in your Roster, or it's a poor design is.....well, entitled. You're going to have to work towards something now and then. Just like the VAST majority of the game does, save for the top percentile that literally waits on nothing because they have everything.
I don think you understand people are fine with gates but not the banning of 4 stars for the whole dang thing
You can't rely on 4*s for the entire duration of the game. This is the end of the current arc. There's more to come. They won't carry through.
Even if they don't carry at least let us bring them it's not hurting anybody

Hurting anyone, potentially. If you fast track progress before people have advanced enough, it's not good for a number of reasons. In terms of not allowing them, it also adds a degree of challenge. Anyone can acquire a decent amount of 4*s, especially Uncollected Players. That's not adequately challenging at all. It takes time to grow a 5* and 6* Roster. That's what the target audience is.

GroundedWisdom · July 2019

May_The_Way said:

GroundedWisdom said:
What I'm defending is a design that takes time to complete. Money isn't the only way to get Champs. You can also put the work in and wait. I don't use the term very often, but this whole idea that every piece of content released must be done with what you have in your Roster, or it's a poor design is.....well, entitled. You're going to have to work towards something now and then. Just like the VAST majority of the game does, save for the top percentile that literally waits on nothing because they have everything.
Without cash, this doesn’t take time to complete, it takes Luck to complete. You do realize crystals are like a slot machine right? Totally random. And waiting to pull a Champion that you have 0.5% of pulling every time, isn’t called “working & waiting”... it’s called “getting lucky”. Just like nobody “works & waits” to win the lottery.

I started this game 2 & 1/2 years ago, & only a few months back, I finally pulled a 3* Deadpool X-Force for the 1st time ever. I have no idea how he avoided me for so long. Not an endgame player, but I’m an upper tier player, with nearly 8K prestige along with 5 6*’s & 2 5/65’s. I’ve probably opened thousands upon thousands of crystals with him in it, but never pulled him. Not once.

Now, take that to another level & imagine if I needed to pull a 5* or 6* of a specific champion. That’s not “work & wait”... no matter how you put it. It’s RNG. Totally & luck based. Or of course... cash based 🙄.

It's time-based. Cash only gives more chances at the same RNG. Either way, you have to wait to pull what you need. That's part of the game. If you don't have what you need, you have to wait to get it. That's never going to stop as long as the game advances, which it will.

DrPepper_75 · July 2019

You really have to be skill player to make it through with 4 stars on act 6.. I know I could not do it. I’m cool with only 5 and 6 stars being allowed.

SiriusBreak · July 2019

GroundedWisdom said:

Simple. It's much, much easier to get 4*s than 5*s. That's kind of the point. As I said, obtaining the Champs we need is still part of the challenge.

That is true. Allocating 4* champs is much easier than allocating 5* champs. The trouble is, the Basic Pool has grown to such a massive size that your chances of getting who you need dwindle monthly. Now, with this in mind, perhaps Kabam should offer new ways to help us zero in on the champs we need for Act 6 progression due to the fact 4* are no longer part of the equation. Let's face it, Challenge shouldn't ride on something that is driven by luck. It ceases to be a challenge. It becomes a game of chance, not Challenge.

If Kabam were to introduce say Class based 5* and 6* Crystals which cost a bit more shard wise, that would help everyone in achieving some balance in their rosters. I can't pull a Cosmic to save my life these days from a 5* crystal (let alone a 6* 😂). Out of 46× 5* champs, I have 4 Cosmics. None of which are top tier. 1 of which I'd consider ranking to R4. None of which I'd take to R5. I know there's other players who have a similar issue with other classes. That's a problem.

Or as others have suggested, new arenas. 5* Basic and 6* Feature. Introduction of both would help stabilize the ever increasing/inflating cutoffs in the 5* Feature Arena. Theoretically they should also increase the number of 5* Feat champs awarded to say 500 instead of just 150. Increasing ways players can EARN 5* champs would make the 4* lock out a little less painful. Again, as it currently stands, we're stuck relying on RNG and for some, it's too long of a 'waiting game.' That is indeed a problem.

A problem that could be solved by buying a bunch of crystals. Hence why players tend to scream 'cash grab.' However, it's still not guaranteed. At least limiting which class you're pulling from would inherently increase your chances of getting a specific champ. The Grandmaster Daily Deal does this, but ultimately can't guarantee a 5* champ. This would also help achieve balance class wise to a certain degree. Of course you could end up duping like mad back to back just the same, lol. Also, the Arena method would help fill in the gaps through work, and you know what you're fighting for in that case.

I do understand (to a certain extent) the purpose of locking out 4* and lower champs in Act 6. As others have said, it slows down the forward march in the Story side of the game. It's less likely that someone will be able to buy their way with revives now. Which is kind of cool when you look at it from that perspective. All the same, I do not like that we have 0 choice in the matter. Perhaps the 4* lockout could be lifted once you've 100% explored it. That way players can test their skills, or test how certain synergies would interact in various stages of Act 6 that they'd otherwise wouldn't have been able to test.

GroundedWisdom · July 2019

May_The_Way said:

GroundedWisdom said:

May_The_Way said:

GroundedWisdom said:
What I'm defending is a design that takes time to complete. Money isn't the only way to get Champs. You can also put the work in and wait. I don't use the term very often, but this whole idea that every piece of content released must be done with what you have in your Roster, or it's a poor design is.....well, entitled. You're going to have to work towards something now and then. Just like the VAST majority of the game does, save for the top percentile that literally waits on nothing because they have everything.
Without cash, this doesn’t take time to complete, it takes Luck to complete. You do realize crystals are like a slot machine right? Totally random. And waiting to pull a Champion that you have 0.5% of pulling every time, isn’t called “working & waiting”... it’s called “getting lucky”. Just like nobody “works & waits” to win the lottery.

I started this game 2 & 1/2 years ago, & only a few months back, I finally pulled a 3* Deadpool X-Force for the 1st time ever. I have no idea how he avoided me for so long. Not an endgame player, but I’m an upper tier player, with nearly 8K prestige along with 5 6*’s & 2 5/65’s. I’ve probably opened thousands upon thousands of crystals with him in it, but never pulled him. Not once.

Now, take that to another level & imagine if I needed to pull a 5* or 6* of a specific champion. That’s not “work & wait”... no matter how you put it. It’s RNG. Totally & luck based. Or of course... cash based 🙄.
It's time-based. Cash only gives more chances at the same RNG. Either way, you have to wait to pull what you need.
You are 100% wrong. If you have enough money you don't have to wait. COWhale is a perfect example that cash can buy you anything in this game. Its cash or get extremely lucky, plain & simple.

He's not any kind of example that most people can relate to. He seemingly has unlimited funds. At the very least, enough to keep trying. There are seldom few who do.

GroundedWisdom · July 2019

SiriusBreak said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Simple. It's much, much easier to get 4*s than 5*s. That's kind of the point. As I said, obtaining the Champs we need is still part of the challenge.
That is true. Allocating 4* champs is much easier than allocating 5* champs. The trouble is, the Basic Pool has grown to such a massive size that your chances of getting who you need dwindle monthly. Now, with this in mind, perhaps Kabam should offer new ways to help us zero in on the champs we need for Act 6 progression due to the fact 4* are no longer part of the equation. Let's face it, Challenge shouldn't ride on something that is driven by luck. It ceases to be a challenge. It becomes a game of chance, not Challenge.

If Kabam were to introduce say Class based 5* and 6* Crystals which cost a bit more shard wise, that would help everyone in achieving some balance in their rosters. I can't pull a Cosmic to save my life these days from a 5* crystal (let alone a 6* 😂). Out of 46× 5* champs, I have 4 Cosmics. None of which are top tier. 1 of which I'd consider ranking to R4. None of which I'd take to R5. I know there's other players who have a similar issue with other classes. That's a problem.

Or as others have suggested, new arenas. 5* Basic and 6* Feature. Introduction of both would help stabilize the ever increasing/inflating cutoffs in the 5* Feature Arena. Theoretically they should also increase the number of 5* Feat champs awarded to say 500 instead of just 150. Increasing ways players can EARN 5* champs would make the 4* lock out a little less painful. Again, as it currently stands, we're stuck relying on RNG and for some, it's too long of a 'waiting game.' That is indeed a problem.

A problem that could be solved by buying a bunch of crystals. Hence why players tend to scream 'cash grab.' However, it's still not guaranteed. At least limiting which class you're pulling from would inherently increase your chances of getting a specific champ. The Grandmaster Daily Deal does this, but ultimately can't guarantee a 5* champ. This wouldo.so help achieve balance class wise to a certain degree. Of course you could end up duping like mad back to back just the same, lol. Also, the Arena method would help fill in the gaps through work, and you know what you're fighting for in that case.

I do understand (to a certain extent) the purpose of locking out 4* and lower champs in Act 6. As others have said, it slows down the forward march in the Story side of the game. It's less likely that someone will be able to buy their way with revives now. Which is kind of cool when you look at it from that perspective. All the same, I do not like that we have 0 choice in the matter. Perhaps the 4* lockout could be lifted once you've 100% explored it. That way players can test their skills, or test how certain synergies would interact in various stages of Act 6 that they'd otherwise wouldn't have been able to test.

There are other ways to somewhat target the RNG. Featured Crystals allow for better odds than the Basic. If a particular counter is running, that's a possibility. Dungeon Crystals are another option. I haven't been opposed to the Class-based suggestion. I actually brought up the same issue quite some time ago concerning Dups in a growing pool. Shortly after, Dungeons returned, which was pretty much the gist of what I suggested. Either way, RNG is what people will be waiting on.
I'm not sure I can get behind allowing 4*s after 100%. That would only open a Pandora's Box of reactions. Not to mention it seems fruitless since 5*s and 6*s are apparently the focus in Story moving forward. Elsewhere in the game, 4*s are still useful. It's one aspect that's moving past lower Rarities. It's also finite and permanent. It'll be there indefinitely, and once it's done, it's done.

SiriusBreak · July 2019

So you're not good with allowing choice after the fact? Why? If someone wants to test something after they've completed it with a lower tier champ, I see nothing wrong with that. I've seen many a video of players flexing their skills with lower tier champs in harder content and it's quite impressive. I'm not saying remove them beforehand. I get why they're there. Just the same, once you've done the deed, you should be free to test things as you see fit. Your time. Your progress. However, as it stands, not your choice. How someone chooses to play in their spare time is not for me to judge. I just believe in giving options in cases where it wouldn't hurt anyone. This... this wouldn't hurt anything. Please, enlighten me on what reactions could possibly be deemed problematic?

Now, the Feature may have a smaller pool, but it doesn't help with the Class situation. I bought a bunch of the previous iteration and didn't get a single Cosmic (not shocked). Dungeon Crystals again do not solve that issue either. I understand that they have smaller pools of champs, but they typically have more of what you don't want, over what you do want. The Champion Pool is large enough that Class oriented Crystals would be welcomed by all. I'd happily drop 12.5k-15k in 5* shards to limit which class I was pulling from. Yeah, you're still dealing with RNG, but it does help. The arena situation is the one I'm more hoping for. More rank rewards, more milestones, more opportunities in general. All things considered with Act 6, I think it's time.

Why are 4 stars not allowed in Act 6?

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