Summoner Sigil - Discussion Thread

Hey Summoners!

We've just announced the introduction of our brand new service, the Summoner Sigil!

The Summoner Sigil is a subscription based service that delivers a number of Bonuses, all for the introductory price of a Star-Lord’s Loot Bag (9.99 USD) every 30 days. Find all the information, and learn about our 7-Day Free Trial for all Summoners (Level 10+), over here!

Comments

GroundedWisdom

Slippery slope fallacy
It also won't stop here, right now it's only $10 but before long the price and rewards will increase significantly more, this further widening the gap between PTW and FTP. They will inevitably lose a major portion of there members. SMH

I beg to differ. It's only natural for a company to increase the prices and standards if there is sufficient income. yes my statement follow the SSA but do realize that not every SSA is a fallacy.
That's pretty much open either way. They did indicate that prices are subject to change. With that comes the choice to pass, just like any Offer. None of these perks are necessities of game play. It's not a situation where people are obligated to purchase in order to play. They could very well increase them. People will either choose to buy them, or not. What doesn't make sense to me is why people are offended that they sell things.
I am not sure why ppl get offended either, but i think its more of the idea that there will be increases and as of rn there is not a huge gap, in the future there may be
True.

Let’s say they go to the extreme and make the Sigil cost as much as an Odin.

For that you get 1 quest energy per minute, 10 5* featured crystals for 11k 5* shards a piece, daily gold realms, 3x inventory limit increase, 4000 units.

Will it affect the difference between the whales and F2P?
It's not the whales, whales are a different category than this. The whale and FTP gap will always be there. This is effectively creating a caste system, and adding levels will further solidify that (I take the word "introductory" to meaning adding levels)

We already have that within the game. There are Offers for specific demos, Offers that are Tiered, Offers that are a range of prices for both Units and Dollars. It's really not that groundbreaking. Aside from the Quest only accessible to those that subscribe, and the Inventory, it's really not that new.

GroundedWisdom

The base line for me is this doesn't create any significant gap between those that do spend and those that don't. 300 Units....I make about 1k a week. 125k Gold....about the same. Store....we have the Items in-game. Energy....fills a minute faster. Not terribly accelerating. What it will do is provide the indicated advantage that you get from purchasing it, and that's the whole point of buying it.

Incitatus666

Slippery slope fallacy
It also won't stop here, right now it's only $10 but before long the price and rewards will increase significantly more, this further widening the gap between PTW and FTP. They will inevitably lose a major portion of there members. SMH

I beg to differ. It's only natural for a company to increase the prices and standards if there is sufficient income. yes my statement follow the SSA but do realize that not every SSA is a fallacy.
That's pretty much open either way. They did indicate that prices are subject to change. With that comes the choice to pass, just like any Offer. None of these perks are necessities of game play. It's not a situation where people are obligated to purchase in order to play. They could very well increase them. People will either choose to buy them, or not. What doesn't make sense to me is why people are offended that they sell things.
I am not sure why ppl get offended either, but i think its more of the idea that there will be increases and as of rn there is not a huge gap, in the future there may be
True.

Let’s say they go to the extreme and make the Sigil cost as much as an Odin.

For that you get 1 quest energy per minute, 10 5* featured crystals for 11k 5* shards a piece, daily gold realms, 3x inventory limit increase, 4000 units.

Will it affect the difference between the whales and F2P?
It's not the whales, whales are a different category than this. The whale and FTP gap will always be there. This is effectively creating a caste system, and adding levels will further solidify that (I take the word "introductory" to meaning adding levels)
We already have that within the game. There are Offers for specific demos, Offers that are Tiered, Offers that are a range of prices for both Units and Dollars. It's really not that groundbreaking. Aside from the Quest only accessible to those that subscribe, and the Inventory, it's really not that new.

I've already mentioned that, the other stuff from this, like the store and what not is the same, the inventory and energy reduction is stuff we cant access no matter what unless you buy this

GroundedWisdom

Well, yes. That's what they're selling. If I don't pay the Cover Charge at the Club downtown, I don't get in.

Starhawk

If you are complaining about this you have no idea what drives f2p games. Paying has always been how they make their revenues.

If you don't pay you can still get ahead so I don't see the issue. if you quit over this as a paying customer i'll be honest I don't mind maybe the servers will become more reliable. I'm going to assume Kabam won't mind either. The only f2p players Kabam likely cares about are the ones that 1) eventually become paying customers or 2) the ones like Brian Grant who have a youtube channel that likely drives interest in the game and 3) the ones that through word of mouth get them new paying customers. If you are complaining odds are you are not one of these 3 options (its possible you are but that is likely a low percentage of people complaining compared to the extra revenue they will be getting).

This is a good business decision because I would think most paying customers will subscribe so it's a no brainer for them. I'm actually surprised they didn't come up with this sooner.

Having said that it isn't all roses....

I do find it a bit concerning that here is the 25% increase in possible inventory. That likely should also be available for f2p players but by paying with units just for this portion.

As much as I like the 5 minute timer I would have preferred increasing the quest energy limit. Realistically speaking unless you sleep less than 6 hours you are going to lose on the stated energy boost mentioned in the announcement which is a joke....almost nobody that is paying for this will be able to come close to using that extra energy even if you play all the time throughout the day.

I also think there should have been a new monthly calendar for those who subscribe with a "slight" increase in rewards or a single bonus item that's different every month to sweeten the deal.

I'm sure rewards will change over time though. Kabam I'm sure will listen to this. Now if they can use this extra profit to hire a few devs full time that only fix bugs.

SknZn

it would be awesome if there is a option you can pay unit for that, i would love to give 275 unit for a month

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Demonzfyre

To be fair, the cost isn't terribly daunting. I can understand people not being able to spend because of whatever financial situation they have. If it's not spending on a matter of principle, can't really say much about that. I spend more than $10 a month on coffee.
I don't think it's the cost that is the issue. I think it's the precedent everyone is upset about
Absolutely! It's not about the cost. It's about them putting a price on things that the community has been literally asking for, for years. Things that others said Kabam were correct not to integrate as they were a great startegy for their business model, to maintain balance.

So because you have been asking for them means it has to be free? Most other games I know, you have to buy more space with game resources or money. Just because its been a popular topic for several of these things, doesnt mean they can't charge for them. Everyones been asking for free 5*'s since they came out and we have no problem paying for those.

Demonzfyre

So, what can free 2 play players do with this?
Nothing. That’s the point. To encourage spending.

So, what can free 2 play players do with this?
Nothing. That’s the point. To encourage spending.
They have to make money somehow to fund the game. Everything can’t be free.
Haha you think that 10 bucks a month will help? Lol
$10 a month, probably not much. $10 x X amount of Subscribers, quite a bit. If I had to venture a guess, this would most likely be the result of seeing the response to other Subscriptions like Units. These Offers tend to be successful.
Don’t start. We all know Kabam already makes millions of bucks a month. Putting this behind a paywall was unnecessary, just greedy.
So because they make Millions, that means they should stop selling Offers? Bit of a backwards logic there.
I don't recall saying that, or anyone else for that matter. Nice job making sh*t up as usual. I guess making up random stuff is all you can ever do to support your arguments huh?
You said they make Millions, so they shouldn't charge for this. What about their Net Income stops them from releasing Offers? You think because they make money, they should just give people what they want, when they want it? No. Your response was cavalier, and I don't mean the Title.
I don't care if they charge for this. If you had half the mind to look back at my previous posts, you'll see the only thing that bugs me is that they gated the Weekly Gold Realms behind a pay wall.
For many, many months, F2P players have been saying how there is a gold drought, & we need weekly Gold Realms. What does Kabam do? Put the Gold Realms behind a pay wall. The rich get richer, & the F2P get nothing.

It's 125k a week for cavalier... That's easily done in arena. It's really not that much.

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DNA3000

To avoid being all negative, here is what I'd like to see:
1) more inventory space available for a one time payment would be fair.

I mentioned veteran loyalty reward systems earlier. In one game I played, things like inventory space could be "rented" by using a VIP subscription, and when you stopped subscribing they would revert to the lower value. But they could also be permanently increased by using veteran reward tokens.

The idea was to preserve the balance between "play" and "pay" in a VIP setting. If you want to pay, you can pay continuously to get certain things. But if you're a veteran, you can earn these things on a permanent basis through a different mechanism.

People still grumbled about the fact that veterans had advantages over new players, but you have to pick your poison there.

DankestChef

Like Kabam dont make enough money a month out of all of us now they want to charge us a monthly subscription for a supposibly free to play game
It's definitely free to play. Just not completely free. There are purchases available. If people didn't get what others can't for free, there wouldn't be a point in selling anything at all.

I really don't understand how you support this. You do realize these are requests people have been asking for YEARS. And when kabam finally listens, they charge you 10 bucks a month for it. You might have the money for this, but what about half of the player base that are F2P? "It's definitely free to play. Just not completely free." Are you hearing yourself mate?

DNA3000

For many, many months, F2P players have been saying how there is a gold drought, & we need weekly Gold Realms. What does Kabam do? Put the Gold Realms behind a pay wall. The rich get richer, & the F2P get nothing.

*Some* players complained about that. Others rightly pointed out that of all the resources in the game, gold is the one resource that an F2P player can grind a literally unlimited amount of. No other resource is as available to completely free to play players who choose to spend time in the game earning it.

Also, saying "the rich get richer" in this context is completely ridiculous. You can only use so much gold. Anyone already rich on gold can't get "richer" except in terms of a meaningless number getting larger. Once you have enough gold that it ceases to be a bottleneck, no more than that is useful.

Every cash offer has to have value, or no one would buy it. Every cash offer with value only serves the players who actually buy it, which means F2P players cannot take advantage of it. The VIP monthly offer is no different. Calling out the gold specifically is once again saying that the players short of gold are more important than the players short of everything else. The players short of gold are not the F2P players. They are the players that aren't grinding for gold regardless of whether they are F2P or not. They don't deserve special consideration over any other class of player that has their own set of bottlenecks.

Demonzfyre

To be fair, the cost isn't terribly daunting. I can understand people not being able to spend because of whatever financial situation they have. If it's not spending on a matter of principle, can't really say much about that. I spend more than $10 a month on coffee.
I don't think it's the cost that is the issue. I think it's the precedent everyone is upset about
Absolutely! It's not about the cost. It's about them putting a price on things that the community has been literally asking for, for years. Things that others said Kabam were correct not to integrate as they were a great startegy for their business model, to maintain balance.
So because you have been asking for them means it has to be free? Most other games I know, you have to buy more space with game resources or money. Just because its been a popular topic for several of these things, doesnt mean they can't charge for them. Everyones been asking for free 5*'s since they came out and we have no problem paying for those.
Difference is, giving out free 5*s would break the game, adding weekly Gold Realms for everyone wouldn't.

Neither will paying for that content either. Most anyone who complains about gold isn't great at resource management.

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Neotwism

Maybe I read the original post wrong, but arent the energy timers just changing from 6 minutes to 5 minutes? Everyone is complaining because basically 2 energy per hour is going to be behind a paywall and its going to destroy the balance of the game? Am I missing something? This small increase while a nice benefit doesnt seem like its a large enough amount to break the game. I know it adds up over time but it's still just 2 energy per hour more than someone who doesnt subscribe can do. A small energy refill would give u the same amount as waiting 2.5 hours with the subscription. Why are so many ppl fuming about it?

Bigg_Dogg

Guys, f2p literally means p2w. If you spend more than 2 hours a day on this game and you are f2p just keep doing that. This changes nothing. The p2w peeps let us play. We will never catch up with them. Make your own endgame.

crgoodw1n

People are fuming not because those who pay will get a little bit better experience. They are complaining because, in order to get that better experience, we have to pay. I get the idea of having offers available to lend a competitive advantage. Kabam is a business and would not make money without them as they do not have in game ads. The problem that everyone is so at arms about is the arrogance of kabam. The player base has been asking for all these "perks" for years as a way of updating the state of the game. The content has increased in difficulty tremendously but the resources have not caught up for those who do not pay dearly with either their wallet or time. The angering issue here that hasn't been, and likely never will be, addressed is the blind eye kabam turns to the legitimate concerns of the player base. If you want context deeper than just price based issues, just browse through some of the older "bugs and known issues" threads and see how many of those are still issues today. They preach a desire for transparency and pleasing their summoner base. But in reality, their decisions do not reflect that in the slightest.

Gamer

Maybe I read the original post wrong, but arent the energy timers just changing from 6 minutes to 5 minutes? Everyone is complaining because basically 2 energy per hour is going to be behind a paywall and its going to destroy the balance of the game? Am I missing something? This small increase while a nice benefit doesnt seem like its a large enough amount to break the game. I know it adds up over time but it's still just 2 energy per hour more than someone who doesnt subscribe can do. A small energy refill would give u the same amount as waiting 2.5 hours with the subscription. Why are so many ppl fuming about it?

It many the gold realms. But for any hardcore arena grind wont be Hav gold problem so no the perks either game breaking but somtimg is the item cap shuld all get. It unfair paying get abialry to hold more

Dshu

As @GroundedWisdom said the game is still free to play. I don't normally agree with him but on this I feel he is right in his logic. There have always been offers for the pay to win players. I don't really see where anything here is all that big of a boost for players. The gold is a slight boost but nothing compared to what is in the normal offers 2-3 times a week. The energy reduction. Its minor since you still need to sleep and people will still buy refills rather than wait. Its 2 energy more an hour is that really going to be a huge bonus to most guys grinding eq? The inventory boost? Ok so here is a request the community has been asking for and a bit of a slap in the face to see a price attached to it. The catch here is once you subscribe you have to keep that subscription or your inventory goes back to what we have now. It's a starting price of 9.99 but from the sound of the announcement that will go up with time. Also how long before you hit the max on the new inventory and then have to go back to hoarding again. So the inventory increase can actually hurt you long term by forcing you to maintain the subscription and you can still be in the same place you were before taking it. The reduction of the feature crystal isn't that big of a deal either when you figure most guys who will do this long term will be spending on normally offers and cavalier crystals anyway so it's not a huge increase in the number of crystals they can open each month. Is there a better way to implement these changes for the community sure. At the end of the day though its about business and if they can generate more revenue by selling subscriptions why not. For the free to play players it's not a big enough increase to warrant getting upset over. Enjoy the game and leave offers like this to the whales and those trying to catch them

GroundedWisdom

So, what can free 2 play players do with this?
Nothing. That’s the point. To encourage spending.

So, what can free 2 play players do with this?
Nothing. That’s the point. To encourage spending.
They have to make money somehow to fund the game. Everything can’t be free.
Haha you think that 10 bucks a month will help? Lol
$10 a month, probably not much. $10 x X amount of Subscribers, quite a bit. If I had to venture a guess, this would most likely be the result of seeing the response to other Subscriptions like Units. These Offers tend to be successful.
Don’t start. We all know Kabam already makes millions of bucks a month. Putting this behind a paywall was unnecessary, just greedy.
So because they make Millions, that means they should stop selling Offers? Bit of a backwards logic there.
I don't recall saying that, or anyone else for that matter. Nice job making sh*t up as usual. I guess making up random stuff is all you can ever do to support your arguments huh?
You said they make Millions, so they shouldn't charge for this. What about their Net Income stops them from releasing Offers? You think because they make money, they should just give people what they want, when they want it? No. Your response was cavalier, and I don't mean the Title.
I don't care if they charge for this. If you had half the mind to look back at my previous posts, you'll see the only thing that bugs me is that they gated the Weekly Gold Realms behind a pay wall.
For many, many months, F2P players have been saying how there is a gold drought, & we need weekly Gold Realms. What does Kabam do? Put the Gold Realms behind a pay wall. The rich get richer, & the F2P get nothing.

There isn't a Gold drought.

dabetcha

This is like Trump's wall.

The thing that I used to love about this game was that I never got any real interest into spending any kind of money in it 'cause I have always been a free to play player in all of the games I play, and still, I kept working hard to try to be at the same level as people who spent 20$-50$ dollars monthly. The differences weren't that big of a deal.

In mcoc obviously you see huge whale accounts because, well, they are whales and by being a FtP player you just know that the breach between your account and theirs is not even worth to compare. This will make the breach even bigger and now some people will subscribe to this only to try to keep up the level with their accounts.

This is the biggest F.U to free to play players and your friendly way to let us know that we are a 0 to your left.

Like if you didn't make enough money monthly before. Greedy ambitious rats.

BLEEDlNG_DGE

To be fair, the cost isn't terribly daunting. I can understand people not being able to spend because of whatever financial situation they have. If it's not spending on a matter of principle, can't really say much about that. I spend more than $10 a month on coffee.
I don't think it's the cost that is the issue. I think it's the precedent everyone is upset about
Absolutely! It's not about the cost. It's about them putting a price on things that the community has been literally asking for, for years. Things that others said Kabam were correct not to integrate as they were a great startegy for their business model, to maintain balance.
So because you have been asking for them means it has to be free? Most other games I know, you have to buy more space with game resources or money. Just because its been a popular topic for several of these things, doesnt mean they can't charge for them. Everyones been asking for free 5*'s since they came out and we have no problem paying for those.

The "most other games I know" argument is pointless in this context because guess what, most other games I know automatically grow with progression without the need of a pay gate.
The point here is that with this, Kabam are essentially (and finally) agreeing with those of us that were highlighting the fact that gold, inventory capacity, energy cost and summoner XP were falling behind in conjunction with the growth of the game. For some reason though, they feel necessary growth needs to be paid for. Growth that has come steadily with the game in the past without a price tag on it. Everybody agrees that these adv are not game breaking, meaning they are within balance and should honestly be part the game's natural growth.
If we start paying for this, what's next? Pay gate on 7* champs? Pay gate on the next level of difficulty?

Karlnak

Real talk, yall - it makes a ton of sense to do 30 days on, 30 days off. Get your featured 5-stars at a discount and save up during slow months.

Well, you can only buy 2 per month and a lot of players are opening more than 2 5 stars a month regularly.

GroundedWisdom

To be fair, the cost isn't terribly daunting. I can understand people not being able to spend because of whatever financial situation they have. If it's not spending on a matter of principle, can't really say much about that. I spend more than $10 a month on coffee.
I don't think it's the cost that is the issue. I think it's the precedent everyone is upset about
Absolutely! It's not about the cost. It's about them putting a price on things that the community has been literally asking for, for years. Things that others said Kabam were correct not to integrate as they were a great startegy for their business model, to maintain balance.
So because you have been asking for them means it has to be free? Most other games I know, you have to buy more space with game resources or money. Just because its been a popular topic for several of these things, doesnt mean they can't charge for them. Everyones been asking for free 5*'s since they came out and we have no problem paying for those.
The "most other games I know" argument is pointless in this context because guess what, most other games I know automatically grow with progression without the need of a pay gate.
The point here is that with this, Kabam are essentially (and finally) agreeing with those of us that were highlighting the fact that gold, inventory capacity, energy cost and summoner XP were falling behind in conjunction with the growth of the game. For some reason though, they feel necessary growth needs to be paid for. Growth that has come steadily with the game in the past without a price tag on it. Everybody agrees that these adv are not game breaking, meaning they are within balance and should honestly be part the game's natural growth.
If we start paying for this, what's next? Pay gate on 7* champs? Pay gate on the next level of difficulty?

I'm going to have to disagree with this. The only thing this confirms is that people were asking for it. If it was in fact viewed as necessary for the game overall, they wouldn't be charging for it.

Payja

Thats realy realy realy not fair.
We play this game becos we love it and they always encourged us to play by some means but now they doing the realy bad move
May be after this sigil thing i quit......

Stellar

One suggestion for you Kabam :
as your will is to make money in any possible way i would suggest you to lower the price of this sigil to 1$/month

Ok you will earn 10 times less from any summoner but i bet you will get 100 times more summoners buying it !

In definitive you will gain more money and the player base will be more than happy with this sigil and the new advantages

BLEEDlNG_DGE

To be fair, the cost isn't terribly daunting. I can understand people not being able to spend because of whatever financial situation they have. If it's not spending on a matter of principle, can't really say much about that. I spend more than $10 a month on coffee.
I don't think it's the cost that is the issue. I think it's the precedent everyone is upset about
Absolutely! It's not about the cost. It's about them putting a price on things that the community has been literally asking for, for years. Things that others said Kabam were correct not to integrate as they were a great startegy for their business model, to maintain balance.
So because you have been asking for them means it has to be free? Most other games I know, you have to buy more space with game resources or money. Just because its been a popular topic for several of these things, doesnt mean they can't charge for them. Everyones been asking for free 5*'s since they came out and we have no problem paying for those.
The "most other games I know" argument is pointless in this context because guess what, most other games I know automatically grow with progression without the need of a pay gate.
The point here is that with this, Kabam are essentially (and finally) agreeing with those of us that were highlighting the fact that gold, inventory capacity, energy cost and summoner XP were falling behind in conjunction with the growth of the game. For some reason though, they feel necessary growth needs to be paid for. Growth that has come steadily with the game in the past without a price tag on it. Everybody agrees that these adv are not game breaking, meaning they are within balance and should honestly be part the game's natural growth.
If we start paying for this, what's next? Pay gate on 7* champs? Pay gate on the next level of difficulty?
I'm going to have to disagree with this. The only thing this confirms is that people were asking for it. If it was in fact viewed as necessary for the game overall, they wouldn't be charging for it.

Charging for it doesn't prove that it's not necessary for the game overall. It proves that they can and will charge for whatever they want to.

GroundedWisdom

To be fair, the cost isn't terribly daunting. I can understand people not being able to spend because of whatever financial situation they have. If it's not spending on a matter of principle, can't really say much about that. I spend more than $10 a month on coffee.
I don't think it's the cost that is the issue. I think it's the precedent everyone is upset about
Absolutely! It's not about the cost. It's about them putting a price on things that the community has been literally asking for, for years. Things that others said Kabam were correct not to integrate as they were a great startegy for their business model, to maintain balance.
So because you have been asking for them means it has to be free? Most other games I know, you have to buy more space with game resources or money. Just because its been a popular topic for several of these things, doesnt mean they can't charge for them. Everyones been asking for free 5*'s since they came out and we have no problem paying for those.
The "most other games I know" argument is pointless in this context because guess what, most other games I know automatically grow with progression without the need of a pay gate.
The point here is that with this, Kabam are essentially (and finally) agreeing with those of us that were highlighting the fact that gold, inventory capacity, energy cost and summoner XP were falling behind in conjunction with the growth of the game. For some reason though, they feel necessary growth needs to be paid for. Growth that has come steadily with the game in the past without a price tag on it. Everybody agrees that these adv are not game breaking, meaning they are within balance and should honestly be part the game's natural growth.
If we start paying for this, what's next? Pay gate on 7* champs? Pay gate on the next level of difficulty?
I'm going to have to disagree with this. The only thing this confirms is that people were asking for it. If it was in fact viewed as necessary for the game overall, they wouldn't be charging for it.
Charging for it doesn't prove that it's not necessary for the game overall. It proves that they can and will charge for whatever they want to.

Ridiculous. They have not, and will not, charge for changes to "quality of life" (my God that term makes me uncomfortable to use in a game). If something is necessary for the Meta, they implement it. They do not charge for it. The Players themselves are the ones who deemed these things necessary for the game, because they want them.

Akhilxcx

atleast make gold realms and 25% inventory increase free for all players. This has been long overdue and constantly asked by players from time to time. other things you can happily keep for sigil holders. Also sigil stones someone at kabam played too much tes oblivion.