Summoner Sigil - Discussion Thread

Hey Summoners!

We've just announced the introduction of our brand new service, the Summoner Sigil!

The Summoner Sigil is a subscription based service that delivers a number of Bonuses, all for the introductory price of a Star-Lord’s Loot Bag (9.99 USD) every 30 days. Find all the information, and learn about our 7-Day Free Trial for all Summoners (Level 10+), over here!

Comments

Onmix

I'm neither for or against Kabam's decision making I address each update individually. I just don't go above and beyond to the point to make it seem like everything they're doing is simply great because overall it is a good product.. If you feel like I'm talking to you, than tough. This offer in my opinion isn't the best and should be frankly offered for free when it comes to inventory spacing and gold opportunities. Maybe if they gave some actual game changing materials like battlechips for a subscription so I can spend less time in area I would pay for that.
So don't buy it. It's a pretty simple answer to not feeling that it has enough value. I didn't think the class 5* was remotely a good offer. I didn't run around complaining about it and bashing kabam. I just didn't buy it.
No kidding -- I get that this is a forum, and people have opinions.

But at some point, quit or don't quit. Buy or not.

I get there are kids who play, but if you're an adult, make a decision one way or the other and stop acting like a for-profit company owes you something that you didn't actually pay for or is going to take less revenue so you can keep using their product exactly how you want for free
Or, you could all let people of all player types and backgrounds share their opinion on a game feature without pretending like your opinions override them or are the "correct" ones. For the handful of users complaining about "entitlement" or "wanting free stuff" and saying the rest are wrong, you guys keep posting this same opinion over and over again on these 18 pages of comments. Isn't the point of having a discussion board about the game facilitated by Kabam to get a bunch of people's opinions for feedback?

This comment really doesn't sit well with me and toward the end here it's really turned very toxic toward others you guys don't agree with. Honestly, go back and read who is posting the most on this thread - it's 4-5 users who don't have a problem with this new feature, quoting and arguing with anyone who does and being condescending toward anyone who has a problem with it. So you guys don't think it's a huge deal? Cool. But the number and tenor of your comments are really leaning toward getting combative and personal and I don't think that's healthy at all. Kabam made this thread and topic open for discussion. You guys made your points, maybe let others make theirs as well without trying to tell them they are wrong repeatedly or using the old worn out "if you don't like it, just quit and stop complaining" mentality. It's just as toxic as what you guys are complaining about yourselves.

Why some users are incapable of letting others share a different viewpoint without trying to shoot them down or negate their experience is beyond me. They have just as much a right to share here as you all do, without having a small group target them and be generally nasty toward them just for posting at all. You talk about people needing to be grown ups? Disagreeing respectfully without bashing others is something grown ups do. And since when is sharing your opinion on a new game feature "complaining and bashing kabam?" I see plenty of comments discussing the specifics of what people have issues with in this, without bashing kabam and usually those kinds of comments are removed anyway. The most toxic comments currently left are people bashing other users for doing what the forums are intended to do. It's really sad to see this and we should all aim higher.

I tried to do this earlier but seems you have a much better way with words.

That attitude really got on my nerves too.

Lormif

Here's the rub for me:

Through @Kabam Miike , Kabam promised a while back to be more transparent with updates that affect the user-base. Did anyone here get asked what they'd like to see added to the game, and if so, were they willing to pay a fee for it? I don't remember a poll or a survey about this. I don't remember an announcement that they were looking into a paid subscription service. I don't remember any kind of deliberation as to what would be a fair value if they were to implement a subscription service.

So, I'm unclear on how this fulfills that promise to be more transparent with updates that affect the user-base.

What makes you think transparent means ask your permission?

ESF

I'm neither for or against Kabam's decision making I address each update individually. I just don't go above and beyond to the point to make it seem like everything they're doing is simply great because overall it is a good product.. If you feel like I'm talking to you, than tough. This offer in my opinion isn't the best and should be frankly offered for free when it comes to inventory spacing and gold opportunities. Maybe if they gave some actual game changing materials like battlechips for a subscription so I can spend less time in area I would pay for that.
So don't buy it. It's a pretty simple answer to not feeling that it has enough value. I didn't think the class 5* was remotely a good offer. I didn't run around complaining about it and bashing kabam. I just didn't buy it.
No kidding -- I get that this is a forum, and people have opinions.

But at some point, quit or don't quit. Buy or not.

I get there are kids who play, but if you're an adult, make a decision one way or the other and stop acting like a for-profit company owes you something that you didn't actually pay for or is going to take less revenue so you can keep using their product exactly how you want for free
Or, you could all let people of all player types and backgrounds share their opinion on a game feature without pretending like your opinions override them or are the "correct" ones. For the handful of users complaining about "entitlement" or "wanting free stuff" and saying the rest are wrong, you guys keep posting this same opinion over and over again on these 18 pages of comments. Isn't the point of having a discussion board about the game facilitated by Kabam to get a bunch of people's opinions for feedback?

This comment really doesn't sit well with me and toward the end here it's really turned very toxic toward others you guys don't agree with. Honestly, go back and read who is posting the most on this thread - it's 4-5 users who don't have a problem with this new feature, quoting and arguing with anyone who does and being condescending toward anyone who has a problem with it. So you guys don't think it's a huge deal? Cool. But the number and tenor of your comments are really leaning toward getting combative and personal and I don't think that's healthy at all. Kabam made this thread and topic open for discussion. You guys made your points, maybe let others make theirs as well without trying to tell them they are wrong repeatedly or using the old worn out "if you don't like it, just quit and stop complaining" mentality. It's just as toxic as what you guys are complaining about yourselves.

Why some users are incapable of letting others share a different viewpoint without trying to shoot them down or negate their experience is beyond me. They have just as much a right to share here as you all do, without having a small group target them and be generally nasty toward them just for posting at all. You talk about people needing to be grown ups? Disagreeing respectfully without bashing others is something grown ups do. And since when is sharing your opinion on a new game feature "complaining and bashing kabam?" I see plenty of comments discussing the specifics of what people have issues with in this, without bashing kabam and usually those kinds of comments are removed anyway. The most toxic comments currently left are people bashing other users for doing what the forums are intended to do. It's really sad to see this and we should all aim higher.

It's not nasty -- it's the truth.

If you don't want to play, you can quit. That doesn't make it right or wrong. If someone wants to keep playing, that doesn't make it right or wrong.

I made points that some agree with and some don't.

But here's my point:

Kabam is going to do what they want. When they open this forum for feedback, before I ever said a word, it's multiple pages of people complaining about a game and processes they don't own.

When people point that out -- because some of us do know that every single aspect of this process is choice -- the feedback loop threatens to obscure the fact that some of us are not upset about this process, and if you say nothing, then that viewpoint gets overridden repeatedly.

To be honest with you, if my comment doesn't sit well with you, that's just not my problem. Because the reality is you can quit or not quit. Play or not play.

Trying to make it seem like that's "toxic" is ridiculous. The post I responded to was one where the person said the Class deal from yesterday wasn't sufficient value to buy. I agreed with that.

Because, again: Nobody forces anyone to do anything. Buy or not. Play or not.

Nobody's wrong either way, but just because Kabam does it for profit doesn't mean a complaint is valid

DNA3000

Aside from the usual Kabam shills, this is CLEARLY getting a negative response. Listen to the feedback and let’s compromise! I understand a subscription is going to happen but it’s being done wrong, clearly.
The Black Market, energy and inventory perks should be STANDARD for all, let the subscription INCREASE their respective value.
Players shouldn’t have to pay for access to these, let them pay for increased value to these.
Something being unpopular doesn't make it bad anymore than something being popular makes it good. Justin Beiber, Miley Cyrus, and Selena Gomez are all quite popular but make horrible music.
When it comes to a business and it’s customer base, yes. If you keep doing things your customers despise, you lose them.

The contrapositive being if you maintain and grow your customer base, you must not be doing things that a significant percentage of your customers despise. And since all available data says they are maintaining and growing the customer base, your own assertion makes a logical statement about how much they are causing players to despise them.

DNA3000

Or, you could all let people of all player types and backgrounds share their opinion on a game feature without pretending like your opinions override them or are the "correct" ones. For the handful of users complaining about "entitlement" or "wanting free stuff" and saying the rest are wrong, you guys keep posting this same opinion over and over again on these 18 pages of comments. Isn't the point of having a discussion board about the game facilitated by Kabam to get a bunch of people's opinions for feedback?

Actually, the primary purpose of the forums in general, and the General Discussion forum section in particular is to promote discussion between players. This presumes everyone has the right to post an opinion, and everyone else has the right to either agree with it, disagree with it, or respond in some other fashion to it.

There are lots of uses for the forums, and some subforums have more specific purposes, but that is the primary purpose. That's why this section is in fact called the General Discussion forums. As opposed to the General Safe from Response Expression forums.

No one should be shouted down, but being disagreed with is not the same thing. If someone thinks you're wrong, they have the same right to state that opinion as you do to state the original opinion in the first place.

TheVyrus

TheTalents said:
@TheVyrus

TheTalents said:
Most people that are complaining are not F2p so stop with the narrative that everyone complaining doesn't spend on the game. Its disingenuous to get your point out and shame people for not spending. All we're saying is that specifically more inventory space, less energy, and gold should be offered for free in our opinion. I don't understand the contempt for people wanting that. I'm not f2P at all but have been wanting this added as they have done so in the past.

The problem is that all of those things requires software engineers to create and implement. I can promise you those engineers do not work for free, they require compensation. The testers also require compensation. Moderators require compensation. Bandwidth costs money. Licensing costs money. I can go on but I think the point is made.
While Kabam is making money already, they are spending a tremendous amount for these changes. As a business they need to recover that cost and gain a profit or they go out of business. They are not forcing the purchase, just offering it. If you really want this QOL change you spend if not, let it go.

Learn how to read bro, I'm a spender. This offer isn't good enough for my 10 bucks every month. Also, I really just want the inventory space for everyone. My problem is people directly getting mad about f2p players wanting life convenience changes added to the game. People jumping on the bandwagon because they spend do not see the bigger picture at all. Hence why they didn't see Kabam's 6 star gates coming for 6.2 because they allowed to 4 star gates to ride. Understand the precedent you are setting by paying for things that should be added naturally with game progression.

You miss my point. My point is that the changes require Kabam to spend, therefor they will be looking to recover the money spent and turn a profit. Therefor the changes are not free for the community, period. I have no issue with people choosing to pay for it or not, but the communities sense of entitlement is incorrect. Things cost money, even simple QOL changes, and when a business places a value on those things the consumer chooses if the value is worth their money or not. F2P or not the choice is there for everyone.

I am sorry you disagree, but I do not think that anyone is entitled to these items. There is a cost and value associated with them.
Quote Insightful

Kabam developers don't get paid more for implementing an increase in inventory for everybody. That makes no damn sense. They get paid a salary to update constantly on a variety of issues. Dude you are way off base to the point I no longer feel the need to respond to you and I won't. The F2p shame is pathetic and it seems like its a way to make you feel better and its sad. Your point isn't anymore valid unless you're a whale. If you're not a whale Kabam doesn't read your post in anymore consideration than someone who is F2p.

Again, I am not shaming anyone I am mearly pointing out that Kabam needs to make money as a business and that players are given a choice.
The QOL changes, which frankly aren't really that great, are not free like it or not.

TheTalents

TheTalents said:
@TheVyrus

TheTalents said:
Most people that are complaining are not F2p so stop with the narrative that everyone complaining doesn't spend on the game. Its disingenuous to get your point out and shame people for not spending. All we're saying is that specifically more inventory space, less energy, and gold should be offered for free in our opinion. I don't understand the contempt for people wanting that. I'm not f2P at all but have been wanting this added as they have done so in the past.

The problem is that all of those things requires software engineers to create and implement. I can promise you those engineers do not work for free, they require compensation. The testers also require compensation. Moderators require compensation. Bandwidth costs money. Licensing costs money. I can go on but I think the point is made.
While Kabam is making money already, they are spending a tremendous amount for these changes. As a business they need to recover that cost and gain a profit or they go out of business. They are not forcing the purchase, just offering it. If you really want this QOL change you spend if not, let it go.

Learn how to read bro, I'm a spender. This offer isn't good enough for my 10 bucks every month. Also, I really just want the inventory space for everyone. My problem is people directly getting mad about f2p players wanting life convenience changes added to the game. People jumping on the bandwagon because they spend do not see the bigger picture at all. Hence why they didn't see Kabam's 6 star gates coming for 6.2 because they allowed to 4 star gates to ride. Understand the precedent you are setting by paying for things that should be added naturally with game progression.

You miss my point. My point is that the changes require Kabam to spend, therefor they will be looking to recover the money spent and turn a profit. Therefor the changes are not free for the community, period. I have no issue with people choosing to pay for it or not, but the communities sense of entitlement is incorrect. Things cost money, even simple QOL changes, and when a business places a value on those things the consumer chooses if the value is worth their money or not. F2P or not the choice is there for everyone.

I am sorry you disagree, but I do not think that anyone is entitled to these items. There is a cost and value associated with them.
Quote Insightful

Kabam developers don't get paid more for implementing an increase in inventory for everybody. That makes no damn sense. They get paid a salary to update constantly on a variety of issues. Dude you are way off base to the point I no longer feel the need to respond to you and I won't. The F2p shame is pathetic and it seems like its a way to make you feel better and its sad. Your point isn't anymore valid unless you're a whale. If you're not a whale Kabam doesn't read your post in anymore consideration than someone who is F2p.
Again, I am not shaming anyone I am mearly pointing out that Kabam needs to make money as a business and that players are given a choice.
The QOL changes, which frankly aren't really that great, are not free like it or not.

We understand Kabam is a business, you telling me that over and over again is insulting. Like it or not we still don't agree. I'm going to tell Kabam to be a better game and how I want it to be because clearly I'm not the only one with this opinion. If you like the game exactly how it is then so be it.

DNA3000

TheTalents said:
@TheVyrus

TheTalents said:
Most people that are complaining are not F2p so stop with the narrative that everyone complaining doesn't spend on the game. Its disingenuous to get your point out and shame people for not spending. All we're saying is that specifically more inventory space, less energy, and gold should be offered for free in our opinion. I don't understand the contempt for people wanting that. I'm not f2P at all but have been wanting this added as they have done so in the past.

The problem is that all of those things requires software engineers to create and implement. I can promise you those engineers do not work for free, they require compensation. The testers also require compensation. Moderators require compensation. Bandwidth costs money. Licensing costs money. I can go on but I think the point is made.
While Kabam is making money already, they are spending a tremendous amount for these changes. As a business they need to recover that cost and gain a profit or they go out of business. They are not forcing the purchase, just offering it. If you really want this QOL change you spend if not, let it go.

Learn how to read bro, I'm a spender. This offer isn't good enough for my 10 bucks every month. Also, I really just want the inventory space for everyone. My problem is people directly getting mad about f2p players wanting life convenience changes added to the game. People jumping on the bandwagon because they spend do not see the bigger picture at all. Hence why they didn't see Kabam's 6 star gates coming for 6.2 because they allowed to 4 star gates to ride. Understand the precedent you are setting by paying for things that should be added naturally with game progression.

You miss my point. My point is that the changes require Kabam to spend, therefor they will be looking to recover the money spent and turn a profit. Therefor the changes are not free for the community, period. I have no issue with people choosing to pay for it or not, but the communities sense of entitlement is incorrect. Things cost money, even simple QOL changes, and when a business places a value on those things the consumer chooses if the value is worth their money or not. F2P or not the choice is there for everyone.

I am sorry you disagree, but I do not think that anyone is entitled to these items. There is a cost and value associated with them.
Quote Insightful

Kabam developers don't get paid more for implementing an increase in inventory for everybody. That makes no damn sense. They get paid a salary to update constantly on a variety of issues. Dude you are way off base to the point I no longer feel the need to respond to you and I won't. The F2p shame is pathetic and it seems like its a way to make you feel better and its sad. Your point isn't anymore valid unless you're a whale. If you're not a whale Kabam doesn't read your post in anymore consideration than someone who is F2p.
Again, I am not shaming anyone I am mearly pointing out that Kabam needs to make money as a business and that players are given a choice.
The QOL changes, which frankly aren't really that great, are not free like it or not.
We understand Kabam is a business, you telling me that over and over again is insulting. Like it or not we still don't agree. I'm going to tell Kabam to be a better game and how I want it to be because clearly I'm not the only one with this opinion. If you like the game exactly how it is then so be it.

There's a third option, which is that someone might not like the game "exactly how it is" and want it to be better, but just think your version is worse, not better.

TheTalents

TheTalents said:
@TheVyrus

TheTalents said:
Most people that are complaining are not F2p so stop with the narrative that everyone complaining doesn't spend on the game. Its disingenuous to get your point out and shame people for not spending. All we're saying is that specifically more inventory space, less energy, and gold should be offered for free in our opinion. I don't understand the contempt for people wanting that. I'm not f2P at all but have been wanting this added as they have done so in the past.

The problem is that all of those things requires software engineers to create and implement. I can promise you those engineers do not work for free, they require compensation. The testers also require compensation. Moderators require compensation. Bandwidth costs money. Licensing costs money. I can go on but I think the point is made.
While Kabam is making money already, they are spending a tremendous amount for these changes. As a business they need to recover that cost and gain a profit or they go out of business. They are not forcing the purchase, just offering it. If you really want this QOL change you spend if not, let it go.

Learn how to read bro, I'm a spender. This offer isn't good enough for my 10 bucks every month. Also, I really just want the inventory space for everyone. My problem is people directly getting mad about f2p players wanting life convenience changes added to the game. People jumping on the bandwagon because they spend do not see the bigger picture at all. Hence why they didn't see Kabam's 6 star gates coming for 6.2 because they allowed to 4 star gates to ride. Understand the precedent you are setting by paying for things that should be added naturally with game progression.

You miss my point. My point is that the changes require Kabam to spend, therefor they will be looking to recover the money spent and turn a profit. Therefor the changes are not free for the community, period. I have no issue with people choosing to pay for it or not, but the communities sense of entitlement is incorrect. Things cost money, even simple QOL changes, and when a business places a value on those things the consumer chooses if the value is worth their money or not. F2P or not the choice is there for everyone.

I am sorry you disagree, but I do not think that anyone is entitled to these items. There is a cost and value associated with them.
Quote Insightful

Kabam developers don't get paid more for implementing an increase in inventory for everybody. That makes no damn sense. They get paid a salary to update constantly on a variety of issues. Dude you are way off base to the point I no longer feel the need to respond to you and I won't. The F2p shame is pathetic and it seems like its a way to make you feel better and its sad. Your point isn't anymore valid unless you're a whale. If you're not a whale Kabam doesn't read your post in anymore consideration than someone who is F2p.
Again, I am not shaming anyone I am mearly pointing out that Kabam needs to make money as a business and that players are given a choice.
The QOL changes, which frankly aren't really that great, are not free like it or not.
We understand Kabam is a business, you telling me that over and over again is insulting. Like it or not we still don't agree. I'm going to tell Kabam to be a better game and how I want it to be because clearly I'm not the only one with this opinion. If you like the game exactly how it is then so be it.
There's a third option, which is that someone might not like the game "exactly how it is" and want it to be better, but just think your version is worse, not better.

For those that think my version isn't better. Am I supposed to care? I would like to hear a better suggestion then. Also, those I was talking about in my previous posts never shared this third opinion that you claim is out there. Just scroll up and read the comments, I'll wait. I think your issue is that you can't simply shame me like you do these other f2p guys because I spend but don't share your kabam can do no wrong opinions.

Nick_Caine_32

I think it’s very telling that the response to my comment is “play or quit.” By that logic, we don’t need a discussion forum or need to have a discussion about any decision they make. And it’s highly disingenuous to suggest past comments and threads from players haven’t resulted in changes to content from Kabam, many times in favor of the player base. I’m guessing the same users were saying “play or quit” during 12.0, and look how that turned out. People may not have got every single change they asked for, but it certainly helped more than hurt in the end result.

@DNA3000 it seems you didn’t understand the point I was making overall, in that the issue isn’t having players debate or discuss these things, but it’s the tenor, respectfulness and frequency of the comments targeting others for sharing that leads to the toxicity we’re seeing on this thread and countless others. As a guardian, I had hoped you could get behind the message I was trying to convey and help facilitate a request for decency and respectfulness that’s very lacking right now.

Can you honestly read the comments of dissent toward those who don’t like these changes and tell me those are coming from a place of respect and fair discourse? I mean I can specifically point to the comments that are directly calling others out, belittling their opinions, calling other players entitled, telling them to just quit the game, accusing them of just wanting free stuff and being lazy, and more. Is there really not a middle ground here?

GroundedWisdom

I'm sorry, but I feel the need to point out the irony of someone who has repeatedly joined and advised people not to interact with me, who is now lecturing on people having the right to participate.

ESF

TheTalents said:
@TheVyrus

TheTalents said:
Most people that are complaining are not F2p so stop with the narrative that everyone complaining doesn't spend on the game. Its disingenuous to get your point out and shame people for not spending. All we're saying is that specifically more inventory space, less energy, and gold should be offered for free in our opinion. I don't understand the contempt for people wanting that. I'm not f2P at all but have been wanting this added as they have done so in the past.

The problem is that all of those things requires software engineers to create and implement. I can promise you those engineers do not work for free, they require compensation. The testers also require compensation. Moderators require compensation. Bandwidth costs money. Licensing costs money. I can go on but I think the point is made.
While Kabam is making money already, they are spending a tremendous amount for these changes. As a business they need to recover that cost and gain a profit or they go out of business. They are not forcing the purchase, just offering it. If you really want this QOL change you spend if not, let it go.

Learn how to read bro, I'm a spender. This offer isn't good enough for my 10 bucks every month. Also, I really just want the inventory space for everyone. My problem is people directly getting mad about f2p players wanting life convenience changes added to the game. People jumping on the bandwagon because they spend do not see the bigger picture at all. Hence why they didn't see Kabam's 6 star gates coming for 6.2 because they allowed to 4 star gates to ride. Understand the precedent you are setting by paying for things that should be added naturally with game progression.

You miss my point. My point is that the changes require Kabam to spend, therefor they will be looking to recover the money spent and turn a profit. Therefor the changes are not free for the community, period. I have no issue with people choosing to pay for it or not, but the communities sense of entitlement is incorrect. Things cost money, even simple QOL changes, and when a business places a value on those things the consumer chooses if the value is worth their money or not. F2P or not the choice is there for everyone.

I am sorry you disagree, but I do not think that anyone is entitled to these items. There is a cost and value associated with them.
Quote Insightful

Kabam developers don't get paid more for implementing an increase in inventory for everybody. That makes no damn sense. They get paid a salary to update constantly on a variety of issues. Dude you are way off base to the point I no longer feel the need to respond to you and I won't. The F2p shame is pathetic and it seems like its a way to make you feel better and its sad. Your point isn't anymore valid unless you're a whale. If you're not a whale Kabam doesn't read your post in anymore consideration than someone who is F2p.
Again, I am not shaming anyone I am mearly pointing out that Kabam needs to make money as a business and that players are given a choice.
The QOL changes, which frankly aren't really that great, are not free like it or not.
We understand Kabam is a business, you telling me that over and over again is insulting. Like it or not we still don't agree. I'm going to tell Kabam to be a better game and how I want it to be because clearly I'm not the only one with this opinion. If you like the game exactly how it is then so be it.
There's a third option, which is that someone might not like the game "exactly how it is" and want it to be better, but just think your version is worse, not better.
For those that think my version isn't better. Am I supposed to care? I would like to hear a better suggestion then. Also, those I was talking about in my previous posts never shared this third opinion that you claim is out there. Just scroll up and read the comments, I'll wait. I think your issue is that you can't simply shame me like you do these other f2p guys because I spend but don't share your kabam can do no wrong opinions.

DNA doesn't need me to defend a post, but he actually described exactly how I feel.

I want Kabam to invest in making this game better and hopefully lengthen the shelf life.

That requires man-hours of development. That means money.

I would pay for things that interest me in that regard. Things that don't interest me, I won't.

So there is a third opinion: I don't need F2P players telling me that Kabam can't do whatever it wants because it doesn't include them, just like I don't need playere who pay to tell me what I should pay for.

Kabam develops the game. I might make suggestions, but they don't have to do what I want or even respond, and I don't have to play or pay.

I fit into that third option pretty clearly

Demonzfyre

TheTalents said:
@TheVyrus

TheTalents said:
Most people that are complaining are not F2p so stop with the narrative that everyone complaining doesn't spend on the game. Its disingenuous to get your point out and shame people for not spending. All we're saying is that specifically more inventory space, less energy, and gold should be offered for free in our opinion. I don't understand the contempt for people wanting that. I'm not f2P at all but have been wanting this added as they have done so in the past.

The problem is that all of those things requires software engineers to create and implement. I can promise you those engineers do not work for free, they require compensation. The testers also require compensation. Moderators require compensation. Bandwidth costs money. Licensing costs money. I can go on but I think the point is made.
While Kabam is making money already, they are spending a tremendous amount for these changes. As a business they need to recover that cost and gain a profit or they go out of business. They are not forcing the purchase, just offering it. If you really want this QOL change you spend if not, let it go.

Learn how to read bro, I'm a spender. This offer isn't good enough for my 10 bucks every month. Also, I really just want the inventory space for everyone. My problem is people directly getting mad about f2p players wanting life convenience changes added to the game. People jumping on the bandwagon because they spend do not see the bigger picture at all. Hence why they didn't see Kabam's 6 star gates coming for 6.2 because they allowed to 4 star gates to ride. Understand the precedent you are setting by paying for things that should be added naturally with game progression.

You miss my point. My point is that the changes require Kabam to spend, therefor they will be looking to recover the money spent and turn a profit. Therefor the changes are not free for the community, period. I have no issue with people choosing to pay for it or not, but the communities sense of entitlement is incorrect. Things cost money, even simple QOL changes, and when a business places a value on those things the consumer chooses if the value is worth their money or not. F2P or not the choice is there for everyone.

I am sorry you disagree, but I do not think that anyone is entitled to these items. There is a cost and value associated with them.
Quote Insightful

Kabam developers don't get paid more for implementing an increase in inventory for everybody. That makes no damn sense. They get paid a salary to update constantly on a variety of issues. Dude you are way off base to the point I no longer feel the need to respond to you and I won't. The F2p shame is pathetic and it seems like its a way to make you feel better and its sad. Your point isn't anymore valid unless you're a whale. If you're not a whale Kabam doesn't read your post in anymore consideration than someone who is F2p.
Again, I am not shaming anyone I am mearly pointing out that Kabam needs to make money as a business and that players are given a choice.
The QOL changes, which frankly aren't really that great, are not free like it or not.
We understand Kabam is a business, you telling me that over and over again is insulting. Like it or not we still don't agree. I'm going to tell Kabam to be a better game and how I want it to be because clearly I'm not the only one with this opinion. If you like the game exactly how it is then so be it.
There's a third option, which is that someone might not like the game "exactly how it is" and want it to be better, but just think your version is worse, not better.
For those that think my version isn't better. Am I supposed to care? I would like to hear a better suggestion then. Also, those I was talking about in my previous posts never shared this third opinion that you claim is out there. Just scroll up and read the comments, I'll wait. I think your issue is that you can't simply shame me like you do these other f2p guys because I spend but don't share your kabam can do no wrong opinions.

How you feel about others' thoughts of your "version" is how is exactly what Kabam thinks of your opinion of what they chose to do.

There has ever only been obe reversal of a game mechanic which was a change to diversity. They were going to change it and then reversed that choice. The side effect is that now people throw around "this will be the end of the game" comments and "boycott time".

They arent going to change their mind on this. The only true way to make a change is don't buy it.

Aleor

"Increased Inventory Capacity!
Tired of items expiring in your Stash? Increase your Inventory Limits for many basic Items by 25%! This won’t apply to all items, such as those for Special Events."

Will it increase capacity only for items, or iso and catalysts as well?

Nick_Caine_32

I'm sorry, but I feel the need to point out the irony of someone who has repeatedly joined and advised people not to interact with me, who is now lecturing on people having the right to participate.

Please point out where I said anyone didn’t have a right to participate? I’ll wait.

If you’re referring to my comment earlier on this thread, I didn’t use your name and I was simply asking for people to not get stuck in yet another back and forth argument with you that takes up page after page, as we have seen happen many times before. I didn’t tell you to stop or say you or anyone else didn’t have the right to post.

It’s telling that you can’t agree with a call for civility in the discourse and instead went after me personally yet again, something you get very upset with others when it’s directed your way.

JRock808

Color me glad that I didn't buy another round of daily unit cards.

Color me even more glad that WoW classic starts up in a few weeks, much better use of 10 bucks a month.

Straw meet camel. Back broken.

TheTalents

TheTalents said:
» show previous quotes
For those that think my version isn't better. Am I supposed to care? I would like to hear a better suggestion then. Also, those I was talking about in my previous posts never shared this third opinion that you claim is out there. Just scroll up and read the comments, I'll wait. I think your issue is that you can't simply shame me like you do these other f2p guys because I spend but don't share your kabam can do no wrong opinions.
DNA doesn't need me to defend a post, but he actually described exactly how I feel.

I want Kabam to invest in making this game better and hopefully lengthen the shelf life.

That requires man-hours of development. That means money.

I would pay for things that interest me in that regard. Things that don't interest me, I won't.

So there is a third opinion: I don't need F2P players telling me that Kabam can't do whatever it wants because it doesn't include them, just like I don't need playere who pay to tell me what I should pay for.

Kabam develops the game. I might make suggestions, but they don't have to do what I want or even respond, and I don't have to play or pay.

I fit into that third option pretty clearly

No you don't because I don't disagree with anything you said. You gave your opinion you didn't belittle either side. You have no dog in the fight I was referring to earlier. Now if you just want to defend DNA for what reason I don't understand that's fine too. Also, the third option is giving a better suggestion on what kabam should do with their subscription instead and you did not provide that whatsoever.

Lormif

I think it’s very telling that the response to my comment is “play or quit.” By that logic, we don’t need a discussion forum or need to have a discussion about any decision they make. And it’s highly disingenuous to suggest past comments and threads from players haven’t resulted in changes to content from Kabam, many times in favor of the player base. I’m guessing the same users were saying “play or quit” during 12.0, and look how that turned out. People may not have got every single change they asked for, but it certainly helped more than hurt in the end result.

@DNA3000 it seems you didn’t understand the point I was making overall, in that the issue isn’t having players debate or discuss these things, but it’s the tenor, respectfulness and frequency of the comments targeting others for sharing that leads to the toxicity we’re seeing on this thread and countless others. As a guardian, I had hoped you could get behind the message I was trying to convey and help facilitate a request for decency and respectfulness that’s very lacking right now.

Can you honestly read the comments of dissent toward those who don’t like these changes and tell me those are coming from a place of respect and fair discourse? I mean I can specifically point to the comments that are directly calling others out, belittling their opinions, calling other players entitled, telling them to just quit the game, accusing them of just wanting free stuff and being lazy, and more. Is there really not a middle ground here?

The problem is your view is very one sided. Can you honestly read the comments of dissent toward those who are find with these changes and tell me those are coming from a place of respect and fair discourse?

I know that I have treated everyone fairly. If they reply to me I reply to them, if they make one statement and drop then I leave them alone after saying my piece. I have said the people want free stuff, but that is not an unfair description of people who say "give this for free", it is not belittling their opinions or them, it is stating a factual observation.

unknown

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xNig

Aside from the usual Kabam shills, this is CLEARLY getting a negative response. Listen to the feedback and let’s compromise! I understand a subscription is going to happen but it’s being done wrong, clearly.
The Black Market, energy and inventory perks should be STANDARD for all, let the subscription INCREASE their respective value.
Players shouldn’t have to pay for access to these, let them pay for increased value to these.
Do you call everyone who disagrees with you a shill?

here is the thing, you guys cannot even agree on what is the issue with the deal, it is not a problem with the deal, it is a problem with you wanting more free stuff. Shoot the Black Market is not even QOL which most of the people in this thread has stated is fine with being in the deal and not free. The other players only want QOL stuff.
The issue with the deal is Kabam capped inventory and we’ve asked for increase for years, same with energy and an idea like the proposed Black Market and all of these being griped about and wanted for years but now behind a paywall.
Is a subscription with added benefits good, yes.
Should things we, as a community, have asked and begged for years to be implemented but only if you pay, no.
So what exactly should be included? Things no one wants? If you want it pay for it, if you dont the game runs just fine without it. QOL is the primary things that should be in these deals, not other things, otherwise it is either useless or gives a massive competitive advantage.
As per my last post.. lol
The things that should be standard are the Market, energy and inventory perks. Let the subscription ADD to the perks.
Out of those 3 the only thing that they are not ADDIng to the perks are the market. The energy and inventory
“Perks” are in addition to what you currently have. Again the problem you are having is not what is going on, but that you want more for free.
As per my previous post..
The 3 that I mentioned being available to all player and subscription INCREASES the perks.
Another 25% inventory, better Market trade-ins and 4 min energy refill.
Is it that hard to see what I’m saying?
Why should they be offering these for free?

Is it hard to understand that?

We’ve begged for these changes for years to be standard parts of the game.
Now tell me why should we have to pay for them?

Now it’s becoming more of a kids’ whine.

Let me give you an example.

Your son has been asking you to buy him a car for a year and a half so he doesn’t have to keep borrowing yours. Do you buy it for him just because he asked you for such a long time?

TheTalents

TheTalents said:
» show previous quotes
For those that think my version isn't better. Am I supposed to care? I would like to hear a better suggestion then. Also, those I was talking about in my previous posts never shared this third opinion that you claim is out there. Just scroll up and read the comments, I'll wait. I think your issue is that you can't simply shame me like you do these other f2p guys because I spend but don't share your kabam can do no wrong opinions.
How you feel about others' thoughts of your "version" is how is exactly what Kabam thinks of your opinion of what they chose to do.

There has ever only been obe reversal of a game mechanic which was a change to diversity. They were going to change it and then reversed that choice. The side effect is that now people throw around "this will be the end of the game" comments and "boycott time".

They arent going to change their mind on this. The only true way to make a change is don't buy it.

I'm not in favor of the f2p guys that say Kabam should burn the game down and make 0 profits, or the game is ruined. I never once said that. It's dramatic and simply not going to happen with these subscriptions. What I don't like specifically is "buy it or shut up", "if you don't like it quit." So lumping me in that is just incorrect so now you know.

Nick_Caine_32

@Lormif we’re not gonna agree and I don’t want to take anymore space up on this topic, I’ll let others speak. But I would suggest 1) taking a self reflective look at the number of disagrees your comments are gathering, and 2) the number of comments you and others who are fine with this are making that are unprompted by others, or not quoted to prompt a response. That will tell us everything we need to know on it.

digital-SOB

Aside from the usual Kabam shills, this is CLEARLY getting a negative response. Listen to the feedback and let’s compromise! I understand a subscription is going to happen but it’s being done wrong, clearly.
The Black Market, energy and inventory perks should be STANDARD for all, let the subscription INCREASE their respective value.
Players shouldn’t have to pay for access to these, let them pay for increased value to these.
Do you call everyone who disagrees with you a shill?

here is the thing, you guys cannot even agree on what is the issue with the deal, it is not a problem with the deal, it is a problem with you wanting more free stuff. Shoot the Black Market is not even QOL which most of the people in this thread has stated is fine with being in the deal and not free. The other players only want QOL stuff.
The issue with the deal is Kabam capped inventory and we’ve asked for increase for years, same with energy and an idea like the proposed Black Market and all of these being griped about and wanted for years but now behind a paywall.
Is a subscription with added benefits good, yes.
Should things we, as a community, have asked and begged for years to be implemented but only if you pay, no.
So what exactly should be included? Things no one wants? If you want it pay for it, if you dont the game runs just fine without it. QOL is the primary things that should be in these deals, not other things, otherwise it is either useless or gives a massive competitive advantage.
As per my last post.. lol
The things that should be standard are the Market, energy and inventory perks. Let the subscription ADD to the perks.
Out of those 3 the only thing that they are not ADDIng to the perks are the market. The energy and inventory
“Perks” are in addition to what you currently have. Again the problem you are having is not what is going on, but that you want more for free.
As per my previous post..
The 3 that I mentioned being available to all player and subscription INCREASES the perks.
Another 25% inventory, better Market trade-ins and 4 min energy refill.
Is it that hard to see what I’m saying?
Why should they be offering these for free?

Is it hard to understand that?
No worries. I posted earlier that the community has been begging for years for these specific changes: energy refill faster, raise the inventory limit and give us a market to trade stuff we don’t have use for something of use.
Kabam said “we can’t/unable/won’t do that” for years, now they can buuuut only if you pay.
Just because the community begged for it, they have to be given for free? Like WHAT?

Yes. Why would a business decide to NOT listen to their customers, they have the ability to implement these changes and decided to do it but only if we pay.

LeNoirFaineant

The more I think about it, the more this seems to be a non issue. If you don't buy the subscription, the game is exactly the same for you as it was prior to the announcement. If you do buy it, you will get a small benefit. Personally I don't think the benefit is worth $10 per month. More T4cc capacity just means I would be in exactly the same position in a few months when the new capacity is full, and if I decide to cancel I would wind up with a bunch of catalysts in overflow. I don't really need more energy with all the free refills we get. I don't need gold, and it isn't worth it for a few shards. If gold is a huge problem for you and you think the deal is worth it, get it. If you are FTP and wish you could get it but won't, I don't see how that is different from any other offer. We have 19 pages of people losing their minds, and there is nothing to see here. I get that people think these things should have been added for free, but why should they have been added? Because we want them?

xNig

Aside from the usual Kabam shills, this is CLEARLY getting a negative response. Listen to the feedback and let’s compromise! I understand a subscription is going to happen but it’s being done wrong, clearly.
The Black Market, energy and inventory perks should be STANDARD for all, let the subscription INCREASE their respective value.
Players shouldn’t have to pay for access to these, let them pay for increased value to these.
Do you call everyone who disagrees with you a shill?

here is the thing, you guys cannot even agree on what is the issue with the deal, it is not a problem with the deal, it is a problem with you wanting more free stuff. Shoot the Black Market is not even QOL which most of the people in this thread has stated is fine with being in the deal and not free. The other players only want QOL stuff.
The issue with the deal is Kabam capped inventory and we’ve asked for increase for years, same with energy and an idea like the proposed Black Market and all of these being griped about and wanted for years but now behind a paywall.
Is a subscription with added benefits good, yes.
Should things we, as a community, have asked and begged for years to be implemented but only if you pay, no.
So what exactly should be included? Things no one wants? If you want it pay for it, if you dont the game runs just fine without it. QOL is the primary things that should be in these deals, not other things, otherwise it is either useless or gives a massive competitive advantage.
As per my last post.. lol
The things that should be standard are the Market, energy and inventory perks. Let the subscription ADD to the perks.
Out of those 3 the only thing that they are not ADDIng to the perks are the market. The energy and inventory
“Perks” are in addition to what you currently have. Again the problem you are having is not what is going on, but that you want more for free.
As per my previous post..
The 3 that I mentioned being available to all player and subscription INCREASES the perks.
Another 25% inventory, better Market trade-ins and 4 min energy refill.
Is it that hard to see what I’m saying?
Why should they be offering these for free?

Is it hard to understand that?

We’ve begged for these changes for years to be standard parts of the game.
Now tell me why should we have to pay for them?
Tell us why you shouldn't besides that you don't want to. If you go to the store and beg them for a new playstation for years, do you feel there's a period of time that once it passes you are now owed a playstation?
You just want to argue, it’s cool I love debates. Let’s say I run a business, my customers have complained that since I close at 5pm and they don’t get of work til 5pm, it would really be great for me to stay open til 6pm. Then I said “ok I’ll do it but you have to pay a monthly subscription of 9.99”
My customers would flip me the bird.

If you don’t stay till 6pm, will you still get their business aka get paid?

GroundedWisdom

I'm sorry, but I feel the need to point out the irony of someone who has repeatedly joined and advised people not to interact with me, who is now lecturing on people having the right to participate.
Please point out where I said anyone didn’t have a right to participate? I’ll wait.

If you’re referring to my comment earlier on this thread, I didn’t use your name and I was simply asking for people to not get stuck in yet another back and forth argument with you that takes up page after page, as we have seen happen many times before. I didn’t tell you to stop or say you or anyone else didn’t have the right to post.

It’s telling that you can’t agree with a call for civility in the discourse and instead went after me personally yet again, something you get very upset with others when it’s directed your way.

Oh. Right, that's so much different than telling people not to participate with me. You hadn't even interacted with me previously in this Thread, and it's not your first time singling me out. There is a great deal of irony in your incessant effort to exert your own personal feelings on my presence, and your argument in this discussion. You've repeatedly advised people not to interact with me because of your own prejudice.

Lormif

@Lormif we’re not gonna agree and I don’t want to take anymore space up on this topic, I’ll let others speak. But I would suggest 1) taking a self reflective look at the number of disagrees your comments are gathering, and 2) the number of comments you and others who are fine with this are making that are unprompted by others, or not quoted to prompt a response. That will tell us everything we need to know on it.

That is fair, about agreeing, but disagrees really mean nothing. It is a popularity contest. I have been given tons of "disagrees" for stating factual information such as when people asked "what did you get out of X crystal" and I post a screen shot of my pull. If you are using disagrees as a metric of anything you really need to reevaluate that metric. Shoot I got disagrees for literally helping people find nodes with spidy people that they can kill for 2 energy per kill to get their 2* after being asked for help.

I have made maybe 10 unprompted replies, mostly to things that make no sense. Most of the rest of my replies are replies of replies.

ESF

@Lormif we’re not gonna agree and I don’t want to take anymore space up on this topic, I’ll let others speak. But I would suggest 1) taking a self reflective look at the number of disagrees your comments are gathering, and 2) the number of comments you and others who are fine with this are making that are unprompted by others, or not quoted to prompt a response. That will tell us everything we need to know on it.

Nick, old buddy, you might wanna take your own advice because you quoted me above after I responded to someone else's post that literally said they didn't buy an offer, which I agreed.with and cited as an example of choice.

You're not fooling a soul, here. You don't mind people speaking if they agree with you. That's fine, we all get it, but you don't get to choose what any of us do

LeNoirFaineant

Aside from the usual Kabam shills, this is CLEARLY getting a negative response. Listen to the feedback and let’s compromise! I understand a subscription is going to happen but it’s being done wrong, clearly.
The Black Market, energy and inventory perks should be STANDARD for all, let the subscription INCREASE their respective value.
Players shouldn’t have to pay for access to these, let them pay for increased value to these.
Do you call everyone who disagrees with you a shill?

here is the thing, you guys cannot even agree on what is the issue with the deal, it is not a problem with the deal, it is a problem with you wanting more free stuff. Shoot the Black Market is not even QOL which most of the people in this thread has stated is fine with being in the deal and not free. The other players only want QOL stuff.
The issue with the deal is Kabam capped inventory and we’ve asked for increase for years, same with energy and an idea like the proposed Black Market and all of these being griped about and wanted for years but now behind a paywall.
Is a subscription with added benefits good, yes.
Should things we, as a community, have asked and begged for years to be implemented but only if you pay, no.
So what exactly should be included? Things no one wants? If you want it pay for it, if you dont the game runs just fine without it. QOL is the primary things that should be in these deals, not other things, otherwise it is either useless or gives a massive competitive advantage.

The whole point of paying is having game changing items and content, otherwise why pay? LoL
QOL should be standard, available to all. The govt doesn’t charge us to breath the air, does it? Cmon.

People pay for QOL improvements all the time. That's what these kinds of perks are. Don't want to wait in line? Become a VIP member... The "whole point of paying" is to get something you want lol

TheTalents

I really think for the sake of QOL kabam should go all the way with it. Put a price on battle chips through subscription so we don't have to grind arena unless we want a new champ. It would solve the gold issue, for those that can afford it, and many more that I can't even begin to explain regarding time.