How many docks does it take for players to stop modding in AW Seasons?

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Comments

  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★
    RakeYoung said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:



    Its possibly enough for that instance, but it is not enough for the claim of it being pervasive. also "30" in terms of who, the person modding, or the defensive team watching? it is hard to gauge time just watching the map, as it can delay between actions, or go instantaneously.

    Read over evidence players have presented before playing devil’s advocate. Under every possible circumstance Vision will never solo a tier 1 war boss under 30 seconds. As previously stated multiple times, the players are able to tell when opponents have begun war fights when the in-game displayed above defenders resets to 3 minutes.
    I have done so, a couple of instances of it, again, does not prove pervasive. Logic 101.
    Main points here are:

    -This has been going on for a long time.
    -There's a consistent, long-term usage by a few allis.. Probably not everyone in the alliances, but a lot of them.
    -Doesn't matter what anyone believes either way.
    If there was more solid proof, it would have been sent around by now and this convo wouldn't be taking place. No one is asking you or any other player to be the jury. Nobody cares about that at all. Those that know what's going on, know what's going on.
    -Kabam hasn't been able to successfully ID it and the game is suffering bc of that. Each day/war that passes, things are getting worse.
    -Only thing anyone is asking for is that Kabam improve its cheat detection and perma-ban cheaters.

    Reality 101.
    Your main points are a lot of speculation, not really reality 101.. Look at most of the reports on the forums about "modding" and you see things that are in no way modding the player just doest know what is going on. Sure there is modding happening, and kabam does a pretty decent job of penalizing those players, but this thread makes it seem like this is some pervasive problem to the point that people are panicing over it, and posting more non modding occurances as though it is modding.

    If you are going to make these types of accusations against people, and kabam, you need the actual solid proof you dont have. This acknowledgement about the lack of more solid prof makes your statement about it getting worse all the sillier.

    if they catch cheaters they should be permaban, that is the only real reality in this thread.
    1- I don't speculate
    2- I don't post without knowledge
    3- you're assuming that I (and others) don't actually know. I can't help you with that. Or won't.
    4- I'm not "most people on the forums". Not that I'm special, I'm not. But I do know stuff and don't cry wolf.
    5- there IS a pervasive problem, but people aren't panicking.. They're considering foregoing war or the game altogether. That is something kabam needs to know.
    6- no one here in this thread has posted "non-modding" occurrences.
    7- again, your beliefs aren't at the heart of any of this. I respect them, but they are immaterial to the issue at hand. While i agree that many (or most) accusations on the forum are false and waste everyone's time, I wouldn't be in this thread if it wasn't the real deal.
    8- none of that will sway you, but again... That's not my goal. None of us here that know what's going on are laying out a "case". We started that 3 seasons ago. Everyone at kabam has the hard evidence. What we're here for is to shout with one voice that they HAVE to do better going forward and that they NEED to rework their punishments appropriately.

    That's all. Not knowing something is reality doesn't make it not so.
    - You ARE speculating.
    - knowledge of something is relative.
    - I assume nothing, I am going by what you are stating here, and the fact that you cant, or wont put up is part of the problem.
    - If you are claiming this is pervasive then you are crying wolf, as you stated many, or most of the accusations are false, if it were pervasive many or most would be true, as that is what pervasive is, meaning it is widespread happening everywhere. Not just the top alliances would be seeing it, would be seeing it EVERYWHERE.
    - You say people are not panicking but admit people are posting fake occurrences, many of them listing this same thread as the reason WHY they are worried it is happening..
    - Yes modding is happening, at the very highest level, by a small group of individuals and needs to be taken care of. That however is not what pervasive is.
    youre still on this thread and now it's devolved into you arguing what the world "pervasive" means? Come on man. How is anything you just posted remotely constructive at all? You even admitted that people are modding, but then regressed into yet again arguing with people about semantics and trying to play devils advocate to people who are much higher up than you in this game who are CORRECT in what they're saying. Even kabam has admitted cheating was a problem in war and have done things over the seasons to correct it, but people who are playing fairly are ENTITLED (yes i know this board hates this word) to ask for it to be fixed without a back and forth on if it's real or not. It's real and has been for a while. Sorry that you want to quantify the word "pervasive" but if top groups are doing it multiple seasons in a row that's enough for me. What is even your goal here in this conversation? Telling people that cheating isn't as big of a deal as they've been saying? Do you really think that's either a well constructed logical stance or are you just trying to troll?
    This entire thread is based around the premise that it is widespread, pervasive. Arguing that it is now immaterial is pretty silly.
    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:



    Its possibly enough for that instance, but it is not enough for the claim of it being pervasive. also "30" in terms of who, the person modding, or the defensive team watching? it is hard to gauge time just watching the map, as it can delay between actions, or go instantaneously.

    Read over evidence players have presented before playing devil’s advocate. Under every possible circumstance Vision will never solo a tier 1 war boss under 30 seconds. As previously stated multiple times, the players are able to tell when opponents have begun war fights when the in-game displayed above defenders resets to 3 minutes.
    I have done so, a couple of instances of it, again, does not prove pervasive. Logic 101.
    Main points here are:

    -This has been going on for a long time.
    -There's a consistent, long-term usage by a few allis.. Probably not everyone in the alliances, but a lot of them.
    -Doesn't matter what anyone believes either way.
    If there was more solid proof, it would have been sent around by now and this convo wouldn't be taking place. No one is asking you or any other player to be the jury. Nobody cares about that at all. Those that know what's going on, know what's going on.
    -Kabam hasn't been able to successfully ID it and the game is suffering bc of that. Each day/war that passes, things are getting worse.
    -Only thing anyone is asking for is that Kabam improve its cheat detection and perma-ban cheaters.

    Reality 101.
    Your main points are a lot of speculation, not really reality 101.. Look at most of the reports on the forums about "modding" and you see things that are in no way modding the player just doest know what is going on. Sure there is modding happening, and kabam does a pretty decent job of penalizing those players, but this thread makes it seem like this is some pervasive problem to the point that people are panicing over it, and posting more non modding occurances as though it is modding.

    If you are going to make these types of accusations against people, and kabam, you need the actual solid proof you dont have. This acknowledgement about the lack of more solid prof makes your statement about it getting worse all the sillier.

    if they catch cheaters they should be permaban, that is the only real reality in this thread.
    1- I don't speculate
    2- I don't post without knowledge
    3- you're assuming that I (and others) don't actually know. I can't help you with that. Or won't.
    4- I'm not "most people on the forums". Not that I'm special, I'm not. But I do know stuff and don't cry wolf.
    5- there IS a pervasive problem, but people aren't panicking.. They're considering foregoing war or the game altogether. That is something kabam needs to know.
    6- no one here in this thread has posted "non-modding" occurrences.
    7- again, your beliefs aren't at the heart of any of this. I respect them, but they are immaterial to the issue at hand. While i agree that many (or most) accusations on the forum are false and waste everyone's time, I wouldn't be in this thread if it wasn't the real deal.
    8- none of that will sway you, but again... That's not my goal. None of us here that know what's going on are laying out a "case". We started that 3 seasons ago. Everyone at kabam has the hard evidence. What we're here for is to shout with one voice that they HAVE to do better going forward and that they NEED to rework their punishments appropriately.

    That's all. Not knowing something is reality doesn't make it not so.
    - You ARE speculating.
    - knowledge of something is relative.
    - I assume nothing, I am going by what you are stating here, and the fact that you cant, or wont put up is part of the problem.
    - If you are claiming this is pervasive then you are crying wolf, as you stated many, or most of the accusations are false, if it were pervasive many or most would be true, as that is what pervasive is, meaning it is widespread happening everywhere. Not just the top alliances would be seeing it, would be seeing it EVERYWHERE.
    - You say people are not panicking but admit people are posting fake occurrences, many of them listing this same thread as the reason WHY they are worried it is happening..
    - Yes modding is happening, at the very highest level, by a small group of individuals and needs to be taken care of. That however is not what pervasive is.
    Again, I respect your assumptions but they're immaterial and providing any proof for you is neither what i intend to do nor is it what is necessary for things to go the way they should. Winning you over is not a goal. Neither is continuing the discussion with you as we're derailing the thread completely and I don't want to do that. I'm simply not here to educate you on anything or argue word meanings and their applications. That sort of thing goes on too much in the forum and already has taken over this thread twice.
    So much for that one voice thing you stated in your previous post, guess it is here to scare people in to thinking it is pervasive so they will stand with you to try and force something.
    I'd hate for kabam to improve their system and actually catch cheaters.. You've won me over with your deft arguments! Long live cheaters (as long as some people are ignorant to what actually happens in the game and applies the "I'll talk until I get the last word" methodology)!
    so now you are going for the strawman fallacy... They should improve the game and catch cheaters, they should not be strong armed into refocusing resources to solve a problem that is only affecting a few alliances at the very top unless they decide that is worth the value. Especially by people using deceptive phrases to work the community into a frenzy.
    I'm curious, so because it only affects a small group of alliances at the top, its not worth investing resources on Kabams part to fix it?

    when its that same small number of groups at the top that happily spend money on the game for fun or the competitive aspect?

    little old me in Gold 2 would be more inclined to push my alliance harder if it didnt involve the potential grief of running into modding alliances.
    Can you please point out where I stated that?
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★
    RakeYoung said:

    Lormif said:

    RakeYoung said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:



    Its possibly enough for that instance, but it is not enough for the claim of it being pervasive. also "30" in terms of who, the person modding, or the defensive team watching? it is hard to gauge time just watching the map, as it can delay between actions, or go instantaneously.

    Read over evidence players have presented before playing devil’s advocate. Under every possible circumstance Vision will never solo a tier 1 war boss under 30 seconds. As previously stated multiple times, the players are able to tell when opponents have begun war fights when the in-game displayed above defenders resets to 3 minutes.
    I have done so, a couple of instances of it, again, does not prove pervasive. Logic 101.
    Main points here are:

    -This has been going on for a long time.
    -There's a consistent, long-term usage by a few allis.. Probably not everyone in the alliances, but a lot of them.
    -Doesn't matter what anyone believes either way.
    If there was more solid proof, it would have been sent around by now and this convo wouldn't be taking place. No one is asking you or any other player to be the jury. Nobody cares about that at all. Those that know what's going on, know what's going on.
    -Kabam hasn't been able to successfully ID it and the game is suffering bc of that. Each day/war that passes, things are getting worse.
    -Only thing anyone is asking for is that Kabam improve its cheat detection and perma-ban cheaters.

    Reality 101.
    Your main points are a lot of speculation, not really reality 101.. Look at most of the reports on the forums about "modding" and you see things that are in no way modding the player just doest know what is going on. Sure there is modding happening, and kabam does a pretty decent job of penalizing those players, but this thread makes it seem like this is some pervasive problem to the point that people are panicing over it, and posting more non modding occurances as though it is modding.

    If you are going to make these types of accusations against people, and kabam, you need the actual solid proof you dont have. This acknowledgement about the lack of more solid prof makes your statement about it getting worse all the sillier.

    if they catch cheaters they should be permaban, that is the only real reality in this thread.
    1- I don't speculate
    2- I don't post without knowledge
    3- you're assuming that I (and others) don't actually know. I can't help you with that. Or won't.
    4- I'm not "most people on the forums". Not that I'm special, I'm not. But I do know stuff and don't cry wolf.
    5- there IS a pervasive problem, but people aren't panicking.. They're considering foregoing war or the game altogether. That is something kabam needs to know.
    6- no one here in this thread has posted "non-modding" occurrences.
    7- again, your beliefs aren't at the heart of any of this. I respect them, but they are immaterial to the issue at hand. While i agree that many (or most) accusations on the forum are false and waste everyone's time, I wouldn't be in this thread if it wasn't the real deal.
    8- none of that will sway you, but again... That's not my goal. None of us here that know what's going on are laying out a "case". We started that 3 seasons ago. Everyone at kabam has the hard evidence. What we're here for is to shout with one voice that they HAVE to do better going forward and that they NEED to rework their punishments appropriately.

    That's all. Not knowing something is reality doesn't make it not so.
    - You ARE speculating.
    - knowledge of something is relative.
    - I assume nothing, I am going by what you are stating here, and the fact that you cant, or wont put up is part of the problem.
    - If you are claiming this is pervasive then you are crying wolf, as you stated many, or most of the accusations are false, if it were pervasive many or most would be true, as that is what pervasive is, meaning it is widespread happening everywhere. Not just the top alliances would be seeing it, would be seeing it EVERYWHERE.
    - You say people are not panicking but admit people are posting fake occurrences, many of them listing this same thread as the reason WHY they are worried it is happening..
    - Yes modding is happening, at the very highest level, by a small group of individuals and needs to be taken care of. That however is not what pervasive is.
    youre still on this thread and now it's devolved into you arguing what the world "pervasive" means? Come on man. How is anything you just posted remotely constructive at all? You even admitted that people are modding, but then regressed into yet again arguing with people about semantics and trying to play devils advocate to people who are much higher up than you in this game who are CORRECT in what they're saying. Even kabam has admitted cheating was a problem in war and have done things over the seasons to correct it, but people who are playing fairly are ENTITLED (yes i know this board hates this word) to ask for it to be fixed without a back and forth on if it's real or not. It's real and has been for a while. Sorry that you want to quantify the word "pervasive" but if top groups are doing it multiple seasons in a row that's enough for me. What is even your goal here in this conversation? Telling people that cheating isn't as big of a deal as they've been saying? Do you really think that's either a well constructed logical stance or are you just trying to troll?
    This entire thread is based around the premise that it is widespread, pervasive. Arguing that it is now immaterial is pretty silly.
    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:



    Its possibly enough for that instance, but it is not enough for the claim of it being pervasive. also "30" in terms of who, the person modding, or the defensive team watching? it is hard to gauge time just watching the map, as it can delay between actions, or go instantaneously.

    Read over evidence players have presented before playing devil’s advocate. Under every possible circumstance Vision will never solo a tier 1 war boss under 30 seconds. As previously stated multiple times, the players are able to tell when opponents have begun war fights when the in-game displayed above defenders resets to 3 minutes.
    I have done so, a couple of instances of it, again, does not prove pervasive. Logic 101.
    Main points here are:

    -This has been going on for a long time.
    -There's a consistent, long-term usage by a few allis.. Probably not everyone in the alliances, but a lot of them.
    -Doesn't matter what anyone believes either way.
    If there was more solid proof, it would have been sent around by now and this convo wouldn't be taking place. No one is asking you or any other player to be the jury. Nobody cares about that at all. Those that know what's going on, know what's going on.
    -Kabam hasn't been able to successfully ID it and the game is suffering bc of that. Each day/war that passes, things are getting worse.
    -Only thing anyone is asking for is that Kabam improve its cheat detection and perma-ban cheaters.

    Reality 101.
    Your main points are a lot of speculation, not really reality 101.. Look at most of the reports on the forums about "modding" and you see things that are in no way modding the player just doest know what is going on. Sure there is modding happening, and kabam does a pretty decent job of penalizing those players, but this thread makes it seem like this is some pervasive problem to the point that people are panicing over it, and posting more non modding occurances as though it is modding.

    If you are going to make these types of accusations against people, and kabam, you need the actual solid proof you dont have. This acknowledgement about the lack of more solid prof makes your statement about it getting worse all the sillier.

    if they catch cheaters they should be permaban, that is the only real reality in this thread.
    1- I don't speculate
    2- I don't post without knowledge
    3- you're assuming that I (and others) don't actually know. I can't help you with that. Or won't.
    4- I'm not "most people on the forums". Not that I'm special, I'm not. But I do know stuff and don't cry wolf.
    5- there IS a pervasive problem, but people aren't panicking.. They're considering foregoing war or the game altogether. That is something kabam needs to know.
    6- no one here in this thread has posted "non-modding" occurrences.
    7- again, your beliefs aren't at the heart of any of this. I respect them, but they are immaterial to the issue at hand. While i agree that many (or most) accusations on the forum are false and waste everyone's time, I wouldn't be in this thread if it wasn't the real deal.
    8- none of that will sway you, but again... That's not my goal. None of us here that know what's going on are laying out a "case". We started that 3 seasons ago. Everyone at kabam has the hard evidence. What we're here for is to shout with one voice that they HAVE to do better going forward and that they NEED to rework their punishments appropriately.

    That's all. Not knowing something is reality doesn't make it not so.
    - You ARE speculating.
    - knowledge of something is relative.
    - I assume nothing, I am going by what you are stating here, and the fact that you cant, or wont put up is part of the problem.
    - If you are claiming this is pervasive then you are crying wolf, as you stated many, or most of the accusations are false, if it were pervasive many or most would be true, as that is what pervasive is, meaning it is widespread happening everywhere. Not just the top alliances would be seeing it, would be seeing it EVERYWHERE.
    - You say people are not panicking but admit people are posting fake occurrences, many of them listing this same thread as the reason WHY they are worried it is happening..
    - Yes modding is happening, at the very highest level, by a small group of individuals and needs to be taken care of. That however is not what pervasive is.
    Again, I respect your assumptions but they're immaterial and providing any proof for you is neither what i intend to do nor is it what is necessary for things to go the way they should. Winning you over is not a goal. Neither is continuing the discussion with you as we're derailing the thread completely and I don't want to do that. I'm simply not here to educate you on anything or argue word meanings and their applications. That sort of thing goes on too much in the forum and already has taken over this thread twice.
    So much for that one voice thing you stated in your previous post, guess it is here to scare people in to thinking it is pervasive so they will stand with you to try and force something.
    I'd hate for kabam to improve their system and actually catch cheaters.. You've won me over with your deft arguments! Long live cheaters (as long as some people are ignorant to what actually happens in the game and applies the "I'll talk until I get the last word" methodology)!
    so now you are going for the strawman fallacy... They should improve the game and catch cheaters, they should not be strong armed into refocusing resources to solve a problem that is only affecting a few alliances at the very top unless they decide that is worth the value. Especially by people using deceptive phrases to work the community into a frenzy.
    I'm curious, so because it only affects a small group of alliances at the top, its not worth investing resources on Kabams part to fix it?

    when its that same small number of groups at the top that happily spend money on the game for fun or the competitive aspect?

    little old me in Gold 2 would be more inclined to push my alliance harder if it didnt involve the potential grief of running into modding alliances.
    Can you please point out where I stated that?
    Sure.

    They should improve the game and catch cheaters, they should not be strong armed into refocusing resources to solve a problem that is only affecting a few alliances at the very top unless they decide that is worth the value.
    Except that is not what that says... Now I am curious, do you really, honestly think they are spending ZERO resources on this issue? If not that is the only way you can even get close to implying that is what I saying, and we know they are spending resources on it, how much we dont know, but they are.
  • RakeYoungRakeYoung Posts: 304 ★★
    edited August 2019
    Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.
    Lormif said:

    RakeYoung said:

    Lormif said:

    RakeYoung said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:



    Its possibly enough for that instance, but it is not enough for the claim of it being pervasive. also "30" in terms of who, the person modding, or the defensive team watching? it is hard to gauge time just watching the map, as it can delay between actions, or go instantaneously.

    Read over evidence players have presented before playing devil’s advocate. Under every possible circumstance Vision will never solo a tier 1 war boss under 30 seconds. As previously stated multiple times, the players are able to tell when opponents have begun war fights when the in-game displayed above defenders resets to 3 minutes.
    I have done so, a couple of instances of it, again, does not prove pervasive. Logic 101.
    Main points here are:

    -This has been going on for a long time.
    -There's a consistent, long-term usage by a few allis.. Probably not everyone in the alliances, but a lot of them.
    -Doesn't matter what anyone believes either way.
    If there was more solid proof, it would have been sent around by now and this convo wouldn't be taking place. No one is asking you or any other player to be the jury. Nobody cares about that at all. Those that know what's going on, know what's going on.
    -Kabam hasn't been able to successfully ID it and the game is suffering bc of that. Each day/war that passes, things are getting worse.
    -Only thing anyone is asking for is that Kabam improve its cheat detection and perma-ban cheaters.

    Reality 101.
    Your main points are a lot of speculation, not really reality 101.. Look at most of the reports on the forums about "modding" and you see things that are in no way modding the player just doest know what is going on. Sure there is modding happening, and kabam does a pretty decent job of penalizing those players, but this thread makes it seem like this is some pervasive problem to the point that people are panicing over it, and posting more non modding occurances as though it is modding.

    If you are going to make these types of accusations against people, and kabam, you need the actual solid proof you dont have. This acknowledgement about the lack of more solid prof makes your statement about it getting worse all the sillier.

    if they catch cheaters they should be permaban, that is the only real reality in this thread.
    1- I don't speculate
    2- I don't post without knowledge
    3- you're assuming that I (and others) don't actually know. I can't help you with that. Or won't.
    4- I'm not "most people on the forums". Not that I'm special, I'm not. But I do know stuff and don't cry wolf.
    5- there IS a pervasive problem, but people aren't panicking.. They're considering foregoing war or the game altogether. That is something kabam needs to know.
    6- no one here in this thread has posted "non-modding" occurrences.
    7- again, your beliefs aren't at the heart of any of this. I respect them, but they are immaterial to the issue at hand. While i agree that many (or most) accusations on the forum are false and waste everyone's time, I wouldn't be in this thread if it wasn't the real deal.
    8- none of that will sway you, but again... That's not my goal. None of us here that know what's going on are laying out a "case". We started that 3 seasons ago. Everyone at kabam has the hard evidence. What we're here for is to shout with one voice that they HAVE to do better going forward and that they NEED to rework their punishments appropriately.

    That's all. Not knowing something is reality doesn't make it not so.
    - You ARE speculating.
    - knowledge of something is relative.
    - I assume nothing, I am going by what you are stating here, and the fact that you cant, or wont put up is part of the problem.
    - If you are claiming this is pervasive then you are crying wolf, as you stated many, or most of the accusations are false, if it were pervasive many or most would be true, as that is what pervasive is, meaning it is widespread happening everywhere. Not just the top alliances would be seeing it, would be seeing it EVERYWHERE.
    - You say people are not panicking but admit people are posting fake occurrences, many of them listing this same thread as the reason WHY they are worried it is happening..
    - Yes modding is happening, at the very highest level, by a small group of individuals and needs to be taken care of. That however is not what pervasive is.
    youre still on this thread and now it's devolved into you arguing what the world "pervasive" means? Come on man. How is anything you just posted remotely constructive at all? You even admitted that people are modding, but then regressed into yet again arguing with people about semantics and trying to play devils advocate to people who are much higher up than you in this game who are CORRECT in what they're saying. Even kabam has admitted cheating was a problem in war and have done things over the seasons to correct it, but people who are playing fairly are ENTITLED (yes i know this board hates this word) to ask for it to be fixed without a back and forth on if it's real or not. It's real and has been for a while. Sorry that you want to quantify the word "pervasive" but if top groups are doing it multiple seasons in a row that's enough for me. What is even your goal here in this conversation? Telling people that cheating isn't as big of a deal as they've been saying? Do you really think that's either a well constructed logical stance or are you just trying to troll?
    This entire thread is based around the premise that it is widespread, pervasive. Arguing that it is now immaterial is pretty silly.
    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:



    Its possibly enough for that instance, but it is not enough for the claim of it being pervasive. also "30" in terms of who, the person modding, or the defensive team watching? it is hard to gauge time just watching the map, as it can delay between actions, or go instantaneously.

    Read over evidence players have presented before playing devil’s advocate. Under every possible circumstance Vision will never solo a tier 1 war boss under 30 seconds. As previously stated multiple times, the players are able to tell when opponents have begun war fights when the in-game displayed above defenders resets to 3 minutes.
    I have done so, a couple of instances of it, again, does not prove pervasive. Logic 101.
    Main points here are:

    -This has been going on for a long time.
    -There's a consistent, long-term usage by a few allis.. Probably not everyone in the alliances, but a lot of them.
    -Doesn't matter what anyone believes either way.
    If there was more solid proof, it would have been sent around by now and this convo wouldn't be taking place. No one is asking you or any other player to be the jury. Nobody cares about that at all. Those that know what's going on, know what's going on.
    -Kabam hasn't been able to successfully ID it and the game is suffering bc of that. Each day/war that passes, things are getting worse.
    -Only thing anyone is asking for is that Kabam improve its cheat detection and perma-ban cheaters.

    Reality 101.
    Your main points are a lot of speculation, not really reality 101.. Look at most of the reports on the forums about "modding" and you see things that are in no way modding the player just doest know what is going on. Sure there is modding happening, and kabam does a pretty decent job of penalizing those players, but this thread makes it seem like this is some pervasive problem to the point that people are panicing over it, and posting more non modding occurances as though it is modding.

    If you are going to make these types of accusations against people, and kabam, you need the actual solid proof you dont have. This acknowledgement about the lack of more solid prof makes your statement about it getting worse all the sillier.

    if they catch cheaters they should be permaban, that is the only real reality in this thread.
    1- I don't speculate
    2- I don't post without knowledge
    3- you're assuming that I (and others) don't actually know. I can't help you with that. Or won't.
    4- I'm not "most people on the forums". Not that I'm special, I'm not. But I do know stuff and don't cry wolf.
    5- there IS a pervasive problem, but people aren't panicking.. They're considering foregoing war or the game altogether. That is something kabam needs to know.
    6- no one here in this thread has posted "non-modding" occurrences.
    7- again, your beliefs aren't at the heart of any of this. I respect them, but they are immaterial to the issue at hand. While i agree that many (or most) accusations on the forum are false and waste everyone's time, I wouldn't be in this thread if it wasn't the real deal.
    8- none of that will sway you, but again... That's not my goal. None of us here that know what's going on are laying out a "case". We started that 3 seasons ago. Everyone at kabam has the hard evidence. What we're here for is to shout with one voice that they HAVE to do better going forward and that they NEED to rework their punishments appropriately.

    That's all. Not knowing something is reality doesn't make it not so.
    - You ARE speculating.
    - knowledge of something is relative.
    - I assume nothing, I am going by what you are stating here, and the fact that you cant, or wont put up is part of the problem.
    - If you are claiming this is pervasive then you are crying wolf, as you stated many, or most of the accusations are false, if it were pervasive many or most would be true, as that is what pervasive is, meaning it is widespread happening everywhere. Not just the top alliances would be seeing it, would be seeing it EVERYWHERE.
    - You say people are not panicking but admit people are posting fake occurrences, many of them listing this same thread as the reason WHY they are worried it is happening..
    - Yes modding is happening, at the very highest level, by a small group of individuals and needs to be taken care of. That however is not what pervasive is.
    Again, I respect your assumptions but they're immaterial and providing any proof for you is neither what i intend to do nor is it what is necessary for things to go the way they should. Winning you over is not a goal. Neither is continuing the discussion with you as we're derailing the thread completely and I don't want to do that. I'm simply not here to educate you on anything or argue word meanings and their applications. That sort of thing goes on too much in the forum and already has taken over this thread twice.
    So much for that one voice thing you stated in your previous post, guess it is here to scare people in to thinking it is pervasive so they will stand with you to try and force something.
    I'd hate for kabam to improve their system and actually catch cheaters.. You've won me over with your deft arguments! Long live cheaters (as long as some people are ignorant to what actually happens in the game and applies the "I'll talk until I get the last word" methodology)!
    so now you are going for the strawman fallacy... They should improve the game and catch cheaters, they should not be strong armed into refocusing resources to solve a problem that is only affecting a few alliances at the very top unless they decide that is worth the value. Especially by people using deceptive phrases to work the community into a frenzy.
    I'm curious, so because it only affects a small group of alliances at the top, its not worth investing resources on Kabams part to fix it?

    when its that same small number of groups at the top that happily spend money on the game for fun or the competitive aspect?

    little old me in Gold 2 would be more inclined to push my alliance harder if it didnt involve the potential grief of running into modding alliances.
    Can you please point out where I stated that?
    Sure.

    They should improve the game and catch cheaters, they should not be strong armed into refocusing resources to solve a problem that is only affecting a few alliances at the very top unless they decide that is worth the value.
    Except that is not what that says... Now I am curious, do you really, honestly think they are spending ZERO resources on this issue? If not that is the only way you can even get close to implying that is what I saying, and we know they are spending resources on it, how much we dont know, but they are.
    Obviously i dont think they are spending zero, but i'm trying to understand your reasoning for them to not refocus more resources when regardless of who its impacting, its affecting morale in the game from the top to at least the middle of those participating in AW

    even tho its unlikely those in those in my bracket of the game are experiencing modding, i know i personally question and start observing when alliances wait until the last possible minute to finish clearing a map when we've already got 100% hours earlier and its not an alliance likely to be in a completely different time zone.

    I wouldnt need to do this or feel that perhaps i'm about to get cheated out of an AW win because they strategically died a few times less than we did.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★
    RakeYoung said:

    Lormif said:

    RakeYoung said:

    Lormif said:

    RakeYoung said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:



    Its possibly enough for that instance, but it is not enough for the claim of it being pervasive. also "30" in terms of who, the person modding, or the defensive team watching? it is hard to gauge time just watching the map, as it can delay between actions, or go instantaneously.

    Read over evidence players have presented before playing devil’s advocate. Under every possible circumstance Vision will never solo a tier 1 war boss under 30 seconds. As previously stated multiple times, the players are able to tell when opponents have begun war fights when the in-game displayed above defenders resets to 3 minutes.
    I have done so, a couple of instances of it, again, does not prove pervasive. Logic 101.
    Main points here are:

    -This has been going on for a long time.
    -There's a consistent, long-term usage by a few allis.. Probably not everyone in the alliances, but a lot of them.
    -Doesn't matter what anyone believes either way.
    If there was more solid proof, it would have been sent around by now and this convo wouldn't be taking place. No one is asking you or any other player to be the jury. Nobody cares about that at all. Those that know what's going on, know what's going on.
    -Kabam hasn't been able to successfully ID it and the game is suffering bc of that. Each day/war that passes, things are getting worse.
    -Only thing anyone is asking for is that Kabam improve its cheat detection and perma-ban cheaters.

    Reality 101.
    Your main points are a lot of speculation, not really reality 101.. Look at most of the reports on the forums about "modding" and you see things that are in no way modding the player just doest know what is going on. Sure there is modding happening, and kabam does a pretty decent job of penalizing those players, but this thread makes it seem like this is some pervasive problem to the point that people are panicing over it, and posting more non modding occurances as though it is modding.

    If you are going to make these types of accusations against people, and kabam, you need the actual solid proof you dont have. This acknowledgement about the lack of more solid prof makes your statement about it getting worse all the sillier.

    if they catch cheaters they should be permaban, that is the only real reality in this thread.
    1- I don't speculate
    2- I don't post without knowledge
    3- you're assuming that I (and others) don't actually know. I can't help you with that. Or won't.
    4- I'm not "most people on the forums". Not that I'm special, I'm not. But I do know stuff and don't cry wolf.
    5- there IS a pervasive problem, but people aren't panicking.. They're considering foregoing war or the game altogether. That is something kabam needs to know.
    6- no one here in this thread has posted "non-modding" occurrences.
    7- again, your beliefs aren't at the heart of any of this. I respect them, but they are immaterial to the issue at hand. While i agree that many (or most) accusations on the forum are false and waste everyone's time, I wouldn't be in this thread if it wasn't the real deal.
    8- none of that will sway you, but again... That's not my goal. None of us here that know what's going on are laying out a "case". We started that 3 seasons ago. Everyone at kabam has the hard evidence. What we're here for is to shout with one voice that they HAVE to do better going forward and that they NEED to rework their punishments appropriately.

    That's all. Not knowing something is reality doesn't make it not so.
    - You ARE speculating.
    - knowledge of something is relative.
    - I assume nothing, I am going by what you are stating here, and the fact that you cant, or wont put up is part of the problem.
    - If you are claiming this is pervasive then you are crying wolf, as you stated many, or most of the accusations are false, if it were pervasive many or most would be true, as that is what pervasive is, meaning it is widespread happening everywhere. Not just the top alliances would be seeing it, would be seeing it EVERYWHERE.
    - You say people are not panicking but admit people are posting fake occurrences, many of them listing this same thread as the reason WHY they are worried it is happening..
    - Yes modding is happening, at the very highest level, by a small group of individuals and needs to be taken care of. That however is not what pervasive is.
    youre still on this thread and now it's devolved into you arguing what the world "pervasive" means? Come on man. How is anything you just posted remotely constructive at all? You even admitted that people are modding, but then regressed into yet again arguing with people about semantics and trying to play devils advocate to people who are much higher up than you in this game who are CORRECT in what they're saying. Even kabam has admitted cheating was a problem in war and have done things over the seasons to correct it, but people who are playing fairly are ENTITLED (yes i know this board hates this word) to ask for it to be fixed without a back and forth on if it's real or not. It's real and has been for a while. Sorry that you want to quantify the word "pervasive" but if top groups are doing it multiple seasons in a row that's enough for me. What is even your goal here in this conversation? Telling people that cheating isn't as big of a deal as they've been saying? Do you really think that's either a well constructed logical stance or are you just trying to troll?
    This entire thread is based around the premise that it is widespread, pervasive. Arguing that it is now immaterial is pretty silly.
    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:



    Its possibly enough for that instance, but it is not enough for the claim of it being pervasive. also "30" in terms of who, the person modding, or the defensive team watching? it is hard to gauge time just watching the map, as it can delay between actions, or go instantaneously.

    Read over evidence players have presented before playing devil’s advocate. Under every possible circumstance Vision will never solo a tier 1 war boss under 30 seconds. As previously stated multiple times, the players are able to tell when opponents have begun war fights when the in-game displayed above defenders resets to 3 minutes.
    I have done so, a couple of instances of it, again, does not prove pervasive. Logic 101.
    Main points here are:

    -This has been going on for a long time.
    -There's a consistent, long-term usage by a few allis.. Probably not everyone in the alliances, but a lot of them.
    -Doesn't matter what anyone believes either way.
    If there was more solid proof, it would have been sent around by now and this convo wouldn't be taking place. No one is asking you or any other player to be the jury. Nobody cares about that at all. Those that know what's going on, know what's going on.
    -Kabam hasn't been able to successfully ID it and the game is suffering bc of that. Each day/war that passes, things are getting worse.
    -Only thing anyone is asking for is that Kabam improve its cheat detection and perma-ban cheaters.

    Reality 101.
    Your main points are a lot of speculation, not really reality 101.. Look at most of the reports on the forums about "modding" and you see things that are in no way modding the player just doest know what is going on. Sure there is modding happening, and kabam does a pretty decent job of penalizing those players, but this thread makes it seem like this is some pervasive problem to the point that people are panicing over it, and posting more non modding occurances as though it is modding.

    If you are going to make these types of accusations against people, and kabam, you need the actual solid proof you dont have. This acknowledgement about the lack of more solid prof makes your statement about it getting worse all the sillier.

    if they catch cheaters they should be permaban, that is the only real reality in this thread.
    1- I don't speculate
    2- I don't post without knowledge
    3- you're assuming that I (and others) don't actually know. I can't help you with that. Or won't.
    4- I'm not "most people on the forums". Not that I'm special, I'm not. But I do know stuff and don't cry wolf.
    5- there IS a pervasive problem, but people aren't panicking.. They're considering foregoing war or the game altogether. That is something kabam needs to know.
    6- no one here in this thread has posted "non-modding" occurrences.
    7- again, your beliefs aren't at the heart of any of this. I respect them, but they are immaterial to the issue at hand. While i agree that many (or most) accusations on the forum are false and waste everyone's time, I wouldn't be in this thread if it wasn't the real deal.
    8- none of that will sway you, but again... That's not my goal. None of us here that know what's going on are laying out a "case". We started that 3 seasons ago. Everyone at kabam has the hard evidence. What we're here for is to shout with one voice that they HAVE to do better going forward and that they NEED to rework their punishments appropriately.

    That's all. Not knowing something is reality doesn't make it not so.
    - You ARE speculating.
    - knowledge of something is relative.
    - I assume nothing, I am going by what you are stating here, and the fact that you cant, or wont put up is part of the problem.
    - If you are claiming this is pervasive then you are crying wolf, as you stated many, or most of the accusations are false, if it were pervasive many or most would be true, as that is what pervasive is, meaning it is widespread happening everywhere. Not just the top alliances would be seeing it, would be seeing it EVERYWHERE.
    - You say people are not panicking but admit people are posting fake occurrences, many of them listing this same thread as the reason WHY they are worried it is happening..
    - Yes modding is happening, at the very highest level, by a small group of individuals and needs to be taken care of. That however is not what pervasive is.
    Again, I respect your assumptions but they're immaterial and providing any proof for you is neither what i intend to do nor is it what is necessary for things to go the way they should. Winning you over is not a goal. Neither is continuing the discussion with you as we're derailing the thread completely and I don't want to do that. I'm simply not here to educate you on anything or argue word meanings and their applications. That sort of thing goes on too much in the forum and already has taken over this thread twice.
    So much for that one voice thing you stated in your previous post, guess it is here to scare people in to thinking it is pervasive so they will stand with you to try and force something.
    I'd hate for kabam to improve their system and actually catch cheaters.. You've won me over with your deft arguments! Long live cheaters (as long as some people are ignorant to what actually happens in the game and applies the "I'll talk until I get the last word" methodology)!
    so now you are going for the strawman fallacy... They should improve the game and catch cheaters, they should not be strong armed into refocusing resources to solve a problem that is only affecting a few alliances at the very top unless they decide that is worth the value. Especially by people using deceptive phrases to work the community into a frenzy.
    I'm curious, so because it only affects a small group of alliances at the top, its not worth investing resources on Kabams part to fix it?

    when its that same small number of groups at the top that happily spend money on the game for fun or the competitive aspect?

    little old me in Gold 2 would be more inclined to push my alliance harder if it didnt involve the potential grief of running into modding alliances.
    Can you please point out where I stated that?
    Sure.

    They should improve the game and catch cheaters, they should not be strong armed into refocusing resources to solve a problem that is only affecting a few alliances at the very top unless they decide that is worth the value.
    Except that is not what that says... Now I am curious, do you really, honestly think they are spending ZERO resources on this issue? If not that is the only way you can even get close to implying that is what I saying, and we know they are spending resources on it, how much we dont know, but they are.
    Obviously i dont think they are spending zero, but i'm trying to understand your reasoning for them to not refocus more resources when regardless of who its impacting, its affecting morale in the game from the top to at least the middle of those participating in AW

    even tho its unlikely those in those in my bracket of the game are experiencing modding, i know i personally question and start observing when alliances wait until the last possible minute to finish clearing a map when we've already got 100% hours earlier and its not an alliance likely to be in a completely different time zone.
    I never said I have an issue with them refocusing resources, please read what I stated and dont try to take something out I didnt say. I said I had an issue with attempting to strong arm them into refocusing resources for problems only affecting a few people, especially by deceptive tactic to whip the community into a frenzy.

    Also while I am not in masters, I am definitely in what most would consider the top, or atleast far from the middle and we have never seen an instance of cheating. Your post is exactly what I am talking about. The OP and the like have got you so scared that you are going to be cheated that you are questioning every match.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    nah i guess arguing with everyone on HOW prevalent it is when you're not even at the top or seem to have been around this game that long is a good use of your time and energy. I mean really why is there ANY argument in this thread at all? It's been proven it's happening. People who are knowledgeable and deal with it are informing them. The fact that anyone is trying to derail this or be devils advocate just seems incredibly silly and against logic. God forbid ANYONE bring anything to kabams attention without getting attacked on the forum here for suggesting something isn't up to par or has a negative connotation.

    Seriously, there's just some things in life that don't need to have "both sides" applied. It's been proven, people want to see change, they've made suggestions. Support your fellow players and make the war mode fair? That sounds a lot easier and more productive to me than whatever is happening on this thread now.


    So moving on from strawman arguments to appeals to authority fallacies now us?

    1) I am near the top, but being the the top is not a requirement to speak.
    2) I have been playing as long as most here, if not longer.
    3) You guys are the one who started the argument about how prevalent it is , this entire thread is talking aboutit, now when it is shown to be false you want to get mad.
    4) yes it is happening, and should be worked on, I never once took issue with that.
    5) The issue I have is the deceptive nature of this thread. It is not here to be be constructive, it is here to strong arm through deception. I will never support that sort of behavior.
    6) I never attacked anyone, I have attacked their argument, I tend to stay away form ad hominem fallacies.
    7) what is alot easier is a simple petition to get them to work on it moer without claiming it is so prevalent and stroking fears, but that does not get as many signatures, or in this case likes and replies.
  • DarkestDestroyerDarkestDestroyer Posts: 2,570 ★★★★
    I hate how the answer to losing always has to be - “Well they were modding” “How dare we lose?! Must of cheated” “he can’t take down a boss, Mod Mod Mod”

    I mean, people need to realise that they can lose wars, even in top ally’s.

    Stop crying cheat every time you suffer a loss, just improve as a group, get better diversity, don’t give silly deaths away.

    I am against mods and cheats, but it’s so annoying as it seems, whenever a loss happens a lot come here to moan about how they were cheated out of it, they can never admit they were beaten by a better alliance on the day.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:


    Where did I say YOU made those arguments..... Again, you are making up strawman.. I said other, not you, and in fact I was talking about the content creator... So much for you agreeing more.

    If you were referring to Chunky, my bad, but that's not what Chunky said either. Do you really expect responding with "you are making up strawman" validates your perspective more than evidence with specific examples provided by other players? Your exact words were "argue against what is stated" after ignoring my previous comment that systematically addressed what you've said this morning (logic 101)? This is partially why no one has commented saying you've added something useful to this thread. You're using blanket statements without providing any evidence to support your positions. I can quote MCOC terms like backdraft intercepting and quake and bake all day, that doesn't make me an expert or even knowledge with using Magik and Quake. I can quote Wittgenstein's concept of language games and logic on an internet forum, that doesn't mean I've read his Philosophical Investigations or even know what Wittgenstein's works on language and logic are about.

    If you're going to keep saying the same thing over and over while simultaneously taking others' comments out of context and not doing what you're asking of others ("argue against what is stated"), give examples. Something like, "I think person A is defensive because they're projecting onto others. Person A is saying address what is said but is not addressing what other people have said to them. This combination of behavior and action implies Person A is defensive because they're not comfortable changing their perspectives after others have supplied evidence that shows their original perspectives are false.".



    7- again, your beliefs aren't at the heart of any of this. I respect them, but they are immaterial to the issue at hand. While i agree that many (or most) accusations on the forum are false and waste everyone's time, I wouldn't be in this thread if it wasn't the real deal.



    I never claimed that pointing out the strawmen validated my posts, but it does mean that theirs, or yours, doest not invalidate them either. I cannot argue against a strawman, because it was never part of the discussion. In fact no one presented evidence of it being pervasive, just anecdotes, and Chucky actively refused to.

    Which comment did I take out of comment, as I just pointed out it was not chunky's, your sole piece of evidence. It is funny because your analysis at the end fits perfectly what you and others are doing when I showed the pervasiveness as being false.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:


    Where did I say YOU made those arguments..... Again, you are making up strawman.. I said other, not you, and in fact I was talking about the content creator... So much for you agreeing more.

    If you were referring to Chunky, my bad, but that's not what Chunky said either. Do you really expect responding with "you are making up strawman" validates your perspective more than evidence with specific examples provided by other players? Your exact words were "argue against what is stated" after ignoring my previous comment that systematically addressed what you've said this morning (logic 101)? This is partially why no one has commented saying you've added something useful to this thread. You're using blanket statements without providing any evidence to support your positions. I can quote MCOC terms like backdraft intercepting and quake and bake all day, that doesn't make me an expert or even knowledge with using Magik and Quake. I can quote Wittgenstein's concept of language games and logic on an internet forum, that doesn't mean I've read his Philosophical Investigations or even know what Wittgenstein's works on language and logic are about.

    If you're going to keep saying the same thing over and over while simultaneously taking others' comments out of context and not doing what you're asking of others ("argue against what is stated"), give examples. Something like, "I think person A is defensive because they're projecting onto others. Person A is saying address what is said but is not addressing what other people have said to them. This combination of behavior and action implies Person A is defensive because they're not comfortable changing their perspectives after others have supplied evidence that shows their original perspectives are false.".
    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:




    7- again, your beliefs aren't at the heart of any of this. I respect them, but they are immaterial to the issue at hand. While i agree that many (or most) accusations on the forum are false and waste everyone's time, I wouldn't be in this thread if it wasn't the real deal.



    Edit ate my post..

    1) he did say that as you can see.
    2) you and others creating strawmen does not invalidate my argument, and you creating strawman (collective you) is what is derailing the conversation, because it creates massive gaps in the discussion.
    3) I never took anyones statement out of context as the quote to your sole example shows.
    4) your last statement seems to apply to y'all when I showed that it is not pervasive and instead of just admitting that and pointing it out it should be addressed you kept attacking me, personally, not my arguments.

    And these forums will be the death of me.

  • Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.
    Don't think I've said anything that could be construed as a personal attack. Once again, irony attacks... as you love word definitions but can't help but get them wrong.

    I'll add victim playing to gaslighting in the list of abilities.

    And from here on, I'll stick to the topic as i wish others would do.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:


    Where did I say YOU made those arguments..... Again, you are making up strawman.. I said other, not you, and in fact I was talking about the content creator... So much for you agreeing more.

    If you were referring to Chunky, my bad, but that's not what Chunky said either. Do you really expect responding with "you are making up strawman" validates your perspective more than evidence with specific examples provided by other players? Your exact words were "argue against what is stated" after ignoring my previous comment that systematically addressed what you've said this morning (logic 101)? This is partially why no one has commented saying you've added something useful to this thread. You're using blanket statements without providing any evidence to support your positions. I can quote MCOC terms like backdraft intercepting and quake and bake all day, that doesn't make me an expert or even knowledge with using Magik and Quake. I can quote Wittgenstein's concept of language games and logic on an internet forum, that doesn't mean I've read his Philosophical Investigations or even know what Wittgenstein's works on language and logic are about.

    If you're going to keep saying the same thing over and over while simultaneously taking others' comments out of context and not doing what you're asking of others ("argue against what is stated"), give examples. Something like, "I think person A is defensive because they're projecting onto others. Person A is saying address what is said but is not addressing what other people have said to them. This combination of behavior and action implies Person A is defensive because they're not comfortable changing their perspectives after others have supplied evidence that shows their original perspectives are false.".



    7- again, your beliefs aren't at the heart of any of this. I respect them, but they are immaterial to the issue at hand. While i agree that many (or most) accusations on the forum are false and waste everyone's time, I wouldn't be in this thread if it wasn't the real deal.



    Edit ate my post..

    1) he did say that as you can see.
    2) you and others creating strawmen does not invalidate my argument, and you creating strawman (collective you) is what is derailing the conversation, because it creates massive gaps in the discussion.
    3) I never took anyones statement out of context as the quote to your sole example shows.
    4) your last statement seems to apply to y'all when I showed that it is not pervasive and instead of just admitting that and pointing it out it should be addressed you kept attacking me, personally, not my arguments.

    And these forums will be the death of me.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    Honest question: How does Kabam benefit from not perma-banning cheaters? It makes no sense to me, other than financial profit, why they would allot ppl to mod their game or purchase fraud units.

    You kind of just figured it out lol. Financial profit is a big reason.

    Integrity be damned when you have whale accounts that are too big to perma ban.

    We're 11 seasons in and still talking about the same stuff. Admittedly piloting was more prevalent than modding which has been pretty much handled however we're in the dark ages of mod identification. All the money this game makes it seems kind of crazy to me that mods aren't immediately identified.
    You think cheating people pay? Not unless they're stealing to do it, and those cases are dealt with. No. They're not allowing people to break TOS just because they spend.
    For once I actually agree with you. Chunkyb had a more to the point disagreement with my previous post and seeing it that way I completely agree.

    This needs to be stopped however I haven't seen it get any better in the last 3-4 seasons. The same groups/people modding to no end.
    evidence?
    If the videos people post of Thing bosses being solod in 30 seconds by a Magik or a Champion boss being solod by an ogv in less than a minute aren't enough then I'm not sure what other proof you need.

    There are definitely a lot of people that just cry wolf when they got beat fair and square but this is a real problem at the top of the game.
    Its possibly enough for that instance, but it is not enough for the claim of it being pervasive. also "30" in terms of who, the person modding, or the defensive team watching? it is hard to gauge time just watching the map, as it can delay between actions, or go instantaneously.
    It's pretty easy to tell, even just by watching the screen.
    No it is not. I have went into the screen and looked at the map and saw nodes up, then looked at the score card and saw 100% completed.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    Modding is like an aggressive type of cancer that will kill it's host if not dealt with.

    "Gee Doc, the cancer hasn't spread THAT much. Don't try and strong arm me with your deceptive fear mongering to get me to buy your treatments".

    Yeah, a reactive approach to penalizing modders has not been successful. Piloting was different. Maybe because VPNs don’t do what players who piloted in early AW Seasons thought they did, maybe because sending devices to pilots to play alliance mates’ accounts were the extent of piloting means available. Temporary bans for the same group of players combined with those players perpetually tweaking Android APK mod software has made reactive methods of consequences for modding detrimental to MCOC and its players. Intentionally violating Kabam’s TOS with mods for 1/3 of the duration of AW Seasons should be enough to warrant more severe consequences for these kinds of cheaters.
    And how do you proactively catch the modders? The vast majority of catching them is reactive because is has to be. A new mod comes out that affects the game Kabam has to learn about it because they can look and catch it, and by the time they do it another comes out. Computer games fix this because they run sniffers and process monitors in the back ground, it is harder for a phone app to do that. The primary ways to stop that is to look at variables that can be spoofed.
  • I don't think there's a doubt in the eyes of Kabam and the majority that this isn't a problem. Even if it's a small percentage of players doing it, it's still a problem. As I stated earlier, we've had our fair number of run ins with AW Defense mods. It seems like it's the opposite at the top though. However, attack mod, defense mod, doesn't really matter which. A mod is a mod. It's bending the odds in your favor and is a direct violation of the ToS.

    That being the case, and the fact it's been noted there's a list of 'usual suspects' being docked... the penalties should theoretically be increased to help curb or hopefully put a stop to this nonsense. Repeated/continued offenses justify this in my opinion. What else can be done when point docks and week bans aren't enough? That's the core reason this thread was started.

    Now, I think it goes without saying (or at least it should) that the proposed permanent bans would occur once it has been proven post investigation. I doubt anyone here is saying 'just start handing out permanent bans based solely on my word.' If that's what anyone has taken away from this thread, I'm pretty sure you didn't read posts in their entirety. There's cases where people mistook whatever for a mod, and that happens. Fact remains, the point docks wouldn't continue to occur if something wasn't going on. Pretty sure the majority are out for a better resolution to the issue at hand so it eventually becomes a thing of the past.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    I don't think there's a doubt in the eyes of Kabam and the majority that this isn't a problem. Even if it's a small percentage of players doing it, it's still a problem. As I stated earlier, we've had our fair number of run ins with AW Defense mods. It seems like it's the opposite at the top though. However, attack mod, defense mod, doesn't really matter which. A mod is a mod. It's bending the odds in your favor and is a direct violation of the ToS.

    That being the case, and the fact it's been noted there's a list of 'usual suspects' being docked... the penalties should theoretically be increased to help curb or hopefully put a stop to this nonsense. Repeated/continued offenses justify this in my opinion. What else can be done when point docks and week bans aren't enough? That's the core reason this thread was started.

    Now, I think it goes without saying (or at least it should) that the proposed permanent bans would occur once it has been proven post investigation. I doubt anyone here is saying 'just start handing out permanent bans based solely on my word.' If that's what anyone has taken away from this thread, I'm pretty sure you didn't read posts in their entirety. There's cases where people mistook whatever for a mod, and that happens. Fact remains, the point docks wouldn't continue to occur if something wasn't going on. Pretty sure the majority are out for a better resolution to the issue at hand so it eventually becomes a thing of the past.

    While yes there are attack mods, there are not defense mods. There is nothing to mod, your client does not do anything for you on defense. They would have to hack the servers and find all the proper stuff for the war. Kabam has already stated that you cannot mod defense.
  • Lormif said:

    I don't think there's a doubt in the eyes of Kabam and the majority that this isn't a problem. Even if it's a small percentage of players doing it, it's still a problem. As I stated earlier, we've had our fair number of run ins with AW Defense mods. It seems like it's the opposite at the top though. However, attack mod, defense mod, doesn't really matter which. A mod is a mod. It's bending the odds in your favor and is a direct violation of the ToS.

    That being the case, and the fact it's been noted there's a list of 'usual suspects' being docked... the penalties should theoretically be increased to help curb or hopefully put a stop to this nonsense. Repeated/continued offenses justify this in my opinion. What else can be done when point docks and week bans aren't enough? That's the core reason this thread was started.

    Now, I think it goes without saying (or at least it should) that the proposed permanent bans would occur once it has been proven post investigation. I doubt anyone here is saying 'just start handing out permanent bans based solely on my word.' If that's what anyone has taken away from this thread, I'm pretty sure you didn't read posts in their entirety. There's cases where people mistook whatever for a mod, and that happens. Fact remains, the point docks wouldn't continue to occur if something wasn't going on. Pretty sure the majority are out for a better resolution to the issue at hand so it eventually becomes a thing of the past.

    While yes there are attack mods, there are not defense mods. There is nothing to mod, your client does not do anything for you on defense. They would have to hack the servers and find all the proper stuff for the war. Kabam has already stated that you cannot mod defense.
    Maybe not anymore, but with the old map, it used to happen. Trust me. When Iceman is Bleeding, when Archangel is going Unstoppable (for extended periods), when Luke Cage is popping Unblockable (not on an Unblockable Special node), something is wrong. Unless there's some magical in game boosts I've never seen... those are mods. All that I listed were situations that actually happened. So maybe since then, there's new measures that were taken to stop them from working. However, they definitely used to work.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:

    I don't think there's a doubt in the eyes of Kabam and the majority that this isn't a problem. Even if it's a small percentage of players doing it, it's still a problem. As I stated earlier, we've had our fair number of run ins with AW Defense mods. It seems like it's the opposite at the top though. However, attack mod, defense mod, doesn't really matter which. A mod is a mod. It's bending the odds in your favor and is a direct violation of the ToS.

    That being the case, and the fact it's been noted there's a list of 'usual suspects' being docked... the penalties should theoretically be increased to help curb or hopefully put a stop to this nonsense. Repeated/continued offenses justify this in my opinion. What else can be done when point docks and week bans aren't enough? That's the core reason this thread was started.

    Now, I think it goes without saying (or at least it should) that the proposed permanent bans would occur once it has been proven post investigation. I doubt anyone here is saying 'just start handing out permanent bans based solely on my word.' If that's what anyone has taken away from this thread, I'm pretty sure you didn't read posts in their entirety. There's cases where people mistook whatever for a mod, and that happens. Fact remains, the point docks wouldn't continue to occur if something wasn't going on. Pretty sure the majority are out for a better resolution to the issue at hand so it eventually becomes a thing of the past.

    While yes there are attack mods, there are not defense mods. There is nothing to mod, your client does not do anything for you on defense. They would have to hack the servers and find all the proper stuff for the war. Kabam has already stated that you cannot mod defense.
    Maybe not anymore, but with the old map, it used to happen. Trust me. When Iceman is Bleeding, when Archangel is going Unstoppable (for extended periods), when Luke Cage is popping Unblockable (not on an Unblockable Special node), something is wrong. Unless there's some magical in game boosts I've never seen... those are mods. All that I listed were situations that actually happened. So maybe since then, there's new measures that were taken to stop them from working. However, they definitely used to work.
    These are all things that have been bugged, you some of these bugs are even still on the bug forums (bleeding iceman in the new variant). You cannot mod something you are not physically active in. Your fight against their team is all controlled by the AI, not the client, therefore it cannot be modded. It is not programically possible.
  • DTMelodicMetalDTMelodicMetal Posts: 2,799 ★★★★★
    Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.

    Honest question: How does Kabam benefit from not perma-banning cheaters? It makes no sense to me, other than financial profit, why they would allot ppl to mod their game or purchase fraud units.

    They don’t. From experience with NDA closed betas with developers and other players, my impression is Kabam’s employees deal with situations in a sort of hierarchy of importance. This explains why some things are fixed faster than others, although difficulty of deciding on an implementing a solution is probably a factor.

    Within the context of this thread’s discussion, players modding through content such as Labyrinth of Legends used to receive permanent bans every time. Applying that method to AW Seasons would significantly discourage players from modding in AW.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    The main problem with docking is they really don’t have the resources to accurately do it. My alliance has been docked twice in the past three seasons for piloting. We have two people with two accounts. And some play on separate devices. We’ve all been in this alliance for years. Nobody is piloting. But the way kabam software sees it is two accounts same vpn your cheating. This is a company who doesn’t have the resources or time to properly manage the game. So they can’t really ban anyone because if they do and can’t actually prove it you could sue. Also they’re not gonna do anything to the top 1%. Period. Besides taking away alliance points, and two wars later they’re back in the same tier. Also we faced an alliance that had two 100% clears in 7 hours. Impossible. Of they won kabam did nothing even though I told them about it.

    pretty hard to judge, 7-8 hours is the minimum amount of time to do the insteance if everyone is highly coordinated. Note I am not saying they are on the up and up, but it is possible.
  • GreywardenGreywarden Posts: 797 ★★★★
    edited August 2019
    Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.
    @Lormif

    For the most part we are talking about tiers 1-3 where the nodes get beefed up which is the whole reason these cheats need mods in the first place........

    Nodes are different from tiers 1-3 and everything else fyi.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    @Lormif

    For the most part we are talking about tiers 1-3 where the nodes get beefed up which is the whole reason these cheats need mods in the first place........

    Nodes are different from tiers 1-3 and everything else fyi.

    The reason for the mods have nothing to do with the technical aspect of modding.... we are not talking about the tier 1-3 nodes themselves, we are talking about cheating and modding. I dont generally speak about tier 1-3 or map 7, but I can talk about modding and cheating
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:

    @Lormif

    For the most part we are talking about tiers 1-3 where the nodes get beefed up which is the whole reason these cheats need mods in the first place........

    Nodes are different from tiers 1-3 and everything else fyi.

    The reason for the mods have nothing to do with the technical aspect of modding.... we are not talking about the tier 1-3 nodes themselves, we are talking about cheating and modding. I dont generally speak about tier 1-3 or map 7, but I can talk about modding and cheating
    You can say whatever you want, obviously this is a free country but what you can't say is it's not an issue at the top or not more rampant at the top when you're not there seeing it every season.
    I have never made those claims.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    xNig said:

    Lormif said:

    Zuro said:

    Lormif said:

    Legit points get labeled as trolls, and we start all over again.. Lol. Cannot question the party line here.

    What's funny is how you think he is talking about you so you clearly know you're a troll yourself
    Funny how I never said he was talking about me....Even still it is not hard to guess, right after my post, right after others accused me of trolling... Even still I was talking in general, but nice try there.

    As much as I know the community hates me for being a straight shooter and saying things as they are, or outright trolling others (cause it’s fun at times), I don’t dabble or comment in threads that I have no experience in (like Map 7).

    Bro @Lormif , you’re in Tier 5 at best. Cheating isn’t rampant there, unlike in tiers 1-3 where people get really competitive. So I would suggest that you stay out of this thread and let it work itself out. You’ve said your piece, we’ve heard you, let Kabam decide whether they want to take action or not.

    Bro @DTMelodicMetal I have the same impression as well. We’ll have to see. 🤷🏻‍♂️
    1) I am tier 4 thank you very much, which is the top 2-3 % of all guilds.
    2) I was told the page before this was rampant in all areas of war and if I have not seen it then I am missing it.
    3) I dont have to be in 1-3 to comment (appeal to authority fallacy), my comments are not that they are not seeing it, my comments are from a technical perspective. I have direct knowledge of this in any case because of my background in computers programming and computer systems.
    1. Congrats?
    2. Did you ever look at the dock lists that come out on Reddit? Always a couple previously master alliances docked down to plat levels. Always tons of alliances in gold one and below as well. If you think that's all piloting, you're crazy.
    3. To comment on on tiers 1-3, you probably should be in tiers 1-3. Just because your alliance has gotten lucky and not gotten it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Almost every Master's alliance has come up against a cheating alliance.
    1) nothing to congrats on, it was a direct counter to his statement not me bragging
    2) . A couple alliances is not pervasive, but the point is I was told one thing earlier in the post now different things. "this is for one voice of the community" now "well this is for tiers 1-3 and those who are lock instep with the opinions of them". The supporters in this post keep moving the goal posts to quite anyone who is not in unison with them.
    3) we are not talking about alliance war tier 1-3. we are talking about modding and cheating. I can contribute technical knowledge without being in those tiers
    2. It isn't a couple of alliances. The lists are generally in the hundreds. Ranging from Masters all the way down into gold tier. Beyond that I haven't looked because the list was already incredibly long.
    3. Your entire argument is "Well I haven't seen it yet so it isn't as pervasive as you say." Just because you yourself haven't had it happen to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen a lot. Most players aren't on the forums so you don't hear from them. Plat 4-gold 1 is 2300 alliances. There is a high likelyhood you haven't seen it just because of the sheer number of alliances, even if 1/3 of those alliances are modding/cheating.
    2) Even the content creator admitted many if not most of the complaints of modders are bogus. I have attempted to search for this supposed active list of hundreds of active alliances who are using mods and have been unable to find it, maybe you can pm me the list. Most of the ones I have found were mostly accusations, or hearsay, not actual hard proof.
    3) That is not my argument, that is what you think my argument is. I have never made such a claim to be honest. It is more along the lines of if it was as large of an issue the forums would be over ran with complaints. Look at he bug report list, fairly mundane bugs have more reporters then this issue.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★
    Zuro said:

    Lormif said:

    Zuro said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    xNig said:

    Lormif said:

    Zuro said:

    Lormif said:

    Legit points get labeled as trolls, and we start all over again.. Lol. Cannot question the party line here.

    What's funny is how you think he is talking about you so you clearly know you're a troll yourself
    Funny how I never said he was talking about me....Even still it is not hard to guess, right after my post, right after others accused me of trolling... Even still I was talking in general, but nice try there.

    As much as I know the community hates me for being a straight shooter and saying things as they are, or outright trolling others (cause it’s fun at times), I don’t dabble or comment in threads that I have no experience in (like Map 7).

    Bro @Lormif , you’re in Tier 5 at best. Cheating isn’t rampant there, unlike in tiers 1-3 where people get really competitive. So I would suggest that you stay out of this thread and let it work itself out. You’ve said your piece, we’ve heard you, let Kabam decide whether they want to take action or not.

    Bro @DTMelodicMetal I have the same impression as well. We’ll have to see. 🤷🏻‍♂️
    1) I am tier 4 thank you very much, which is the top 2-3 % of all guilds.
    2) I was told the page before this was rampant in all areas of war and if I have not seen it then I am missing it.
    3) I dont have to be in 1-3 to comment (appeal to authority fallacy), my comments are not that they are not seeing it, my comments are from a technical perspective. I have direct knowledge of this in any case because of my background in computers programming and computer systems.
    1. Congrats?
    2. Did you ever look at the dock lists that come out on Reddit? Always a couple previously master alliances docked down to plat levels. Always tons of alliances in gold one and below as well. If you think that's all piloting, you're crazy.
    3. To comment on on tiers 1-3, you probably should be in tiers 1-3. Just because your alliance has gotten lucky and not gotten it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Almost every Master's alliance has come up against a cheating alliance.
    1) nothing to congrats on, it was a direct counter to his statement not me bragging
    2) . A couple alliances is not pervasive, but the point is I was told one thing earlier in the post now different things. "this is for one voice of the community" now "well this is for tiers 1-3 and those who are lock instep with the opinions of them". The supporters in this post keep moving the goal posts to quite anyone who is not in unison with them.
    3) we are not talking about alliance war tier 1-3. we are talking about modding and cheating. I can contribute technical knowledge without being in those tiers
    2. It isn't a couple of alliances. The lists are generally in the hundreds. Ranging from Masters all the way down into gold tier. Beyond that I haven't looked because the list was already incredibly long.
    3. Your entire argument is "Well I haven't seen it yet so it isn't as pervasive as you say." Just because you yourself haven't had it happen to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen a lot. Most players aren't on the forums so you don't hear from them. Plat 4-gold 1 is 2300 alliances. There is a high likelyhood you haven't seen it just because of the sheer number of alliances, even if 1/3 of those alliances are modding/cheating.
    2) Even the content creator admitted many if not most of the complaints of modders are bogus. I have attempted to search for this supposed active list of hundreds of active alliances who are using mods and have been unable to find it, maybe you can pm me the list. Most of the ones I have found were mostly accusations, or hearsay, not actual hard proof.
    3) That is not my argument, that is what you think my argument is. I have never made such a claim to be honest. It is more along the lines of if it was as large of an issue the forums would be over ran with complaints. Look at he bug report list, fairly mundane bugs have more reporters then this issue.
    I haven't really been looking at this thread much but what are you even arguing against clearly people who mod should suffer consequences
    I have never once said otherwise...
    Then why is everyone on here calling you a troll and if you never said it once what are you even arguing about then?
    Because
    1)I am pointing out they are over generalizing, claiming modding is rampant in the entire war system and not just at the very top.
    2) Pointing out that dispite what they want finding an punishing moders is mostly a reactionary process.
    3) not being 100% lock step with them.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    @Lormif


    To each his own, I really think that we're just arguing semantics here which is getting people riled up. Cheating appears to be rampant to people at the top because we see it A LOT. So it's relative to our experience whereas your experience in the middle is clearly different.

    now that we've derailed this thread for pages upon pages can we all just agree that cheaters need to be punished and move on....

    I have already agreed cheaters need to be punished , shoot that had nothing to do with my original point anyways, that was others derailing it. The argument was made that finding these cheaters should be proactive not reactive, and I asked how, when modding is a reactive thing.
This discussion has been closed.