How many docks does it take for players to stop modding in AW Seasons?

1910111315

Comments

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 27,087 ★★★★★
    Zuko_ILC said:

    Zuko_ILC said:

    Cheating is wrong. No question about that. Benefitting from someone else's punishment isn't any better. I don't even think people realize how the system would be inundated by people reporting others if you had the opportunity to gain Rewards from catching cheaters. Support would be swamped by every little chance people could.

    That's absurd. Anyone who thinks there's even a chance someone is cheating is already sending tickets in.

    There is absolutely no harm in awarding the win to an alliance that was cheated against.
    Yes. There is. For one thing, you give people Rewards they didn't earn based on performance. For another, you incentivize people to report every little Loss because they might score Rewards out of it.
    The performance is moot based on the playing field being rigged.
    Not really. By that standard, no one gets anything because you can't call anything fair.
    That doesn't even make sense. You're potentially screwing a legitimate alliance's season bc they were unfortunate enough to get matched against cheaters. In what world is that fair? I've been on the receiving end of multiple matches through a season against alliances that were docked after our wars. That would have potentially the difference between Plat 3 or Plat 2 for us that season.

    You're saying you want the leader boards to be accurate how can they be in that situation?

    I couldn't care less about war anymore personally but people have been getting screwed like this since seasons started and they really need to fix it.
    Stop feeding the skrulls lol
    Constantly labeling me and telling others not to participate in discussions with me is adding nothing productive.
    I'm sorry I'm confused I re-read my post and don't see your name anywhere in it. You are the one calling me out personally when I have done nothing about you. It's a movie reference called Captain Marvel. Please don't feed the Skrulls....they can be anywhere.
    You do realize we all know what you meant, right?
  • GreywardenGreywarden Posts: 797 ★★★★
    Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.

    I'd say a good way to get closer to being more proactive would be for further investment in better mod detection technology. Simply put, what Kabam is using now for mod detection isn't cutting it. I can't put a solid number on how many groups or people are doing this but the fact that it's more than a handful is a handful too many in my opinion.

    There are players out there that have been tracking these groups throughout the seasons as well as the players in those groups that have a better idea on the exact number. Seeing this first hand (as well as multiple videos from others of impossible solo matchups) via sub 5 death tier 1 wars from a 20 million rating alliance I can tell you it's real and at least the group I've seen this first hand with has had zero punishment.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★


    I'd say a good way to get closer to being more proactive would be for further investment in better mod detection technology. Simply put, what Kabam is using now for mod detection isn't cutting it. I can't put a solid number on how many groups or people are doing this but the fact that it's more than a handful is a handful too many in my opinion.

    There are players out there that have been tracking these groups throughout the seasons as well as the players in those groups that have a better idea on the exact number. Seeing this first hand (as well as multiple videos from others of impossible solo matchups) via sub 5 death tier 1 wars from a 20 million rating alliance I can tell you it's real and at least the group I've seen this first hand with has had zero punishment.

    Without knowing what they are using how can you even state this? Every competitive game has an issue with modders, and when they come out with a tool to detect them the modders move around it. As long as there is a client that manages any of the data there will be ways of modding it.
  • ZuroZuro Posts: 2,023 ★★★★★
    Lormif said:

    @Lormif


    To each his own, I really think that we're just arguing semantics here which is getting people riled up. Cheating appears to be rampant to people at the top because we see it A LOT. So it's relative to our experience whereas your experience in the middle is clearly different.

    now that we've derailed this thread for pages upon pages can we all just agree that cheaters need to be punished and move on....

    I have already agreed cheaters need to be punished , shoot that had nothing to do with my original point anyways, that was others derailing it. The argument was made that finding these cheaters should be proactive not reactive, and I asked how, when modding is a reactive thing.
    If you know cheaters need to be punished why are you even arguing in the first place that was the point of the thread not what lever your point was
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★
    Zuro said:

    Lormif said:

    @Lormif


    To each his own, I really think that we're just arguing semantics here which is getting people riled up. Cheating appears to be rampant to people at the top because we see it A LOT. So it's relative to our experience whereas your experience in the middle is clearly different.

    now that we've derailed this thread for pages upon pages can we all just agree that cheaters need to be punished and move on....

    I have already agreed cheaters need to be punished , shoot that had nothing to do with my original point anyways, that was others derailing it. The argument was made that finding these cheaters should be proactive not reactive, and I asked how, when modding is a reactive thing.
    If you know cheaters need to be punished why are you even arguing in the first place that was the point of the thread not what lever your point was
    Threads have many arguments in them. You can argue details brought up in the thread without arguing against one specific point.
  • GreywardenGreywarden Posts: 797 ★★★★
    Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.
    chunkyb said:

    Buuuuut we do know the exact mod. It's been passed along. Again, lotta assumptions being made here that just come down to ppl not knowing the realities and wanting to argue word definitions for zero relative up-side. But sometimes, ppl are bored I guess.

    You're right, WE do but because I'm not sure what the 47th line of script reads it obviously doesn't exist according to some people.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★
    Its like you are reading another post and then attriburint it to me. I never said you didnt know what the modders were using, I never even said you made up anything. I said you didnt know what THEY were using. You defined the subject of that they in your quoted post as being KABAM...

    And then you go on and on about stuff I never said. It is not my fault you dont understand how computer applications work on the layer, or mods for that matter, all that matters is you get what you want and that you are labled as right and everyone else is quite.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:

    Its like you are reading another post and then attriburint it to me. I never said you didnt know what the modders were using, I never even said you made up anything. I said you didnt know what THEY were using. You defined the subject of that they in your quoted post as being KABAM...

    And then you go on and on about stuff I never said. It is not my fault you dont understand how computer applications work on the layer, or mods for that matter, all that matters is you get what you want and that you are labled as right and everyone else is quite.

    Good luck to you and your future endeavors. I'm done arguing nothing.
    yes, if you keep misrepresenting what people say all you ever get is nothing. I have tried to do nothing but have a good faith conversation, and entire path it was made up arguments on your side.
  • WerewrymWerewrym Posts: 2,685 Guardian
    edited August 2019
    Zuro said:

    Rektor said:

    Possibly the greatest troll of all time.

    I say it's a tie between Lormif and you know who
    Voldemort?
  • ZuroZuro Posts: 2,023 ★★★★★
    Werewrym said:

    Zuro said:

    Rektor said:

    Possibly the greatest troll of all time.

    I say it's a tie between Lormif and you know who
    Voldemort?
    Of course
  • RektorRektor Posts: 673 ★★★
    Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.
    Imagine hyping up a revamped war map and buffed rewards intended to take 6* champs to the next rank as the game moves forward, and then allowing cheaters to get better rewards than basically every other alliance because you cant detect modified apk that turns the volume sliders into kabam game genie.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    It seems off that Android APK mod software is capable of outsmarting 6-figure salary developers who work for a multi-million dollar gaming company. I have contacts that work in security, some have been involved in competitive cyber competitions like CyberPatriot and Wicked6 Cyber Games. According to these people, identifying competitors who cheat comes down to allocation of time and resources. We can't comment on what Kabam is able to allocate in terms of those two variables. We can comment on how mods that got one alliance docked twice during AW Season 9 have been used all of AW Season 11 without alliances who've used them receiving a dock. That doesn't make sense to me.

    yes it comes down to time and resources, that time and resources are spent creating tools to catch known exploits (proactive), but mostly figuring out newly emerging exploits that move around the proactive part. it also means knowing how those mods work.

    Android is a great OS in terms of flexibility, but the issue you come back with is it is easier to mod/hack things because of this.

    Most detection tools work off getting the data the mods send, env variables and the alike, but those variables can be changed. The basic version of this is how malicious websites can modify their own env vars to avoid detection on the internet, which we still have a major issue with.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    It seems off that Android APK mod software is capable of outsmarting 6-figure salary developers who work for a multi-million dollar gaming company. I have contacts that work in security, some have been involved in competitive cyber competitions like CyberPatriot and Wicked6 Cyber Games. According to these people, identifying competitors who cheat comes down to allocation of time and resources. We can't comment on what Kabam is able to allocate in terms of those two variables. We can comment on how mods that got one alliance docked twice during AW Season 9 have been used all of AW Season 11 without alliances who've used them receiving a dock. That doesn't make sense to me.

    yes it comes down to time and resources, that time and resources are spent creating tools to catch known exploits (proactive), but mostly figuring out newly emerging exploits that move around the proactive part. it also means knowing how those mods work.

    Android is a great OS in terms of flexibility, but the issue you come back with is it is easier to mod/hack things because of this.

    Most detection tools work off getting the data the mods send, env variables and the alike, but those variables can be changed. The basic version of this is how malicous websites can modify their own env vars to avoid detection

    Lormif said:


    I'd say a good way to get closer to being more proactive would be for further investment in better mod detection technology. Simply put, what Kabam is using now for mod detection isn't cutting it. I can't put a solid number on how many groups or people are doing this but the fact that it's more than a handful is a handful too many in my opinion.

    There are players out there that have been tracking these groups throughout the seasons as well as the players in those groups that have a better idea on the exact number. Seeing this first hand (as well as multiple videos from others of impossible solo matchups) via sub 5 death tier 1 wars from a 20 million rating alliance I can tell you it's real and at least the group I've seen this first hand with has had zero punishment.

    Without knowing what they are using how can you even state this? Every competitive game has an issue with modders, and when they come out with a tool to detect them the modders move around it. As long as there is a client that manages any of the data there will be ways of modding it.
    So because I don't know the exact mod they are using or where they got it from I must be imagining it right? Trying to be calm here but you gotta be kidding me. I totally understand that modding exists and that it will always to a degree but what I'd like to see is improved mod detection. Modders will work around it? FINE, make them work around it then and actually make the "contest" fair like Mods are constantly preaching. I'm not sure how we're even going back and forth here other than you're purposely pushing buttons.

    Is your "constructive criticism" that people are ALL crying wolf but AT THE SAME TIME to just be ok with modding because it will always be there? Everyone can't be making this up but then you also admit modding exists...

    I as well as a lot of others on this thread understand what you were trying to get at with your first handful of posts, modding isn't EVERYWHERE obviously. But 1908438490 posts after that, just please give it up.

    Modding may have been more prevalent in previous seasons so maybe saying "all time high" isn't factually accurate but the main problem is that it STILL exists. You can say it doesn't in Tier 4 which is probably true but this isn't aimed at Tier 4 but rather Tier 1 more than anything else.

    Please go argue semantics, punctuation or some other arbitrary aspect of a post on another thread. The people on this thread are trying to at least get a SINGLE REPLY from a mod assuring us they are AT LEAST looking into this.

    15 pages deep and nothing of the sort yet which I have to think is due to all of the useless back and forth that normally torments any thread that was created with good intentions.
    How do you even get what you are asking me from what I stated? its like you look at a post that is asking you question make up what is said and then argue against that instead of what I stated.

    1) we are talking about the tools kabam is using, not the mods the cheaters are using, how can you shift so quickly to act like when I said "without knowing what they are using how can you state this" I am somehow talking about the modders, and then to claim that I am somehow claiming you are imagining something, what I dont know because it does not make any sense in the context of what was stated. you intentionally characterize what I said and then go off the entire rails about how I am accusing something of being made up. Stop it. Argue against what I stated, not something made up. Stay within the context of what I said. This is the major problem with this thread, any single point against what is being stated is seen as an attack and all reason is dropped.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    It seems off that Android APK mod software is capable of outsmarting 6-figure salary developers who work for a multi-million dollar gaming company. I have contacts that work in security, some have been involved in competitive cyber competitions like CyberPatriot and Wicked6 Cyber Games. According to these people, identifying competitors who cheat comes down to allocation of time and resources. We can't comment on what Kabam is able to allocate in terms of those two variables. We can comment on how mods that got one alliance docked twice during AW Season 9 have been used all of AW Season 11 without alliances who've used them receiving a dock. That doesn't make sense to me.

    yes it comes down to time and resources, that time and resources are spent creating tools to catch known exploits (proactive), but mostly figuring out newly emerging exploits that move around the proactive part. it also means knowing how those mods work.

    Android is a great OS in terms of flexibility, but the issue you come back with is it is easier to mod/hack things because of this.

    Most detection tools work off getting the data the mods send, env variables and the alike, but those variables can be changed. The basic version of this is how malicous websites can modify their own env vars to avoid detection

    Lormif said:


    I'd say a good way to get closer to being more proactive would be for further investment in better mod detection technology. Simply put, what Kabam is using now for mod detection isn't cutting it. I can't put a solid number on how many groups or people are doing this but the fact that it's more than a handful is a handful too many in my opinion.

    There are players out there that have been tracking these groups throughout the seasons as well as the players in those groups that have a better idea on the exact number. Seeing this first hand (as well as multiple videos from others of impossible solo matchups) via sub 5 death tier 1 wars from a 20 million rating alliance I can tell you it's real and at least the group I've seen this first hand with has had zero punishment.

    Without knowing what they are using how can you even state this? Every competitive game has an issue with modders, and when they come out with a tool to detect them the modders move around it. As long as there is a client that manages any of the data there will be ways of modding it.
    So because I don't know the exact mod they are using or where they got it from I must be imagining it right? Trying to be calm here but you gotta be kidding me. I totally understand that modding exists and that it will always to a degree but what I'd like to see is improved mod detection. Modders will work around it? FINE, make them work around it then and actually make the "contest" fair like Mods are constantly preaching. I'm not sure how we're even going back and forth here other than you're purposely pushing buttons.

    Is your "constructive criticism" that people are ALL crying wolf but AT THE SAME TIME to just be ok with modding because it will always be there? Everyone can't be making this up but then you also admit modding exists...

    I as well as a lot of others on this thread understand what you were trying to get at with your first handful of posts, modding isn't EVERYWHERE obviously. But 1908438490 posts after that, just please give it up.

    Modding may have been more prevalent in previous seasons so maybe saying "all time high" isn't factually accurate but the main problem is that it STILL exists. You can say it doesn't in Tier 4 which is probably true but this isn't aimed at Tier 4 but rather Tier 1 more than anything else.

    Please go argue semantics, punctuation or some other arbitrary aspect of a post on another thread. The people on this thread are trying to at least get a SINGLE REPLY from a mod assuring us they are AT LEAST looking into this.

    15 pages deep and nothing of the sort yet which I have to think is due to all of the useless back and forth that normally torments any thread that was created with good intentions.
    How do you even get what you are asking me from what I stated? its like you look at a post that is asking you question make up what is said and then argue against that instead of what I stated.

    we are talking about the tools kabam is using, not the mods the cheaters are using, how can you shift so quickly to act like when I said "without knowing what they are using how can you state this" I am somehow talking about the modders, and then to claim that I am somehow claiming you are imaginging something, what I dont know because it does not make any sense in the context of what was stated. you intentionally characterize what I said and then go off the entire rails about how I am accusing something of being made up. Stop it. Argue against what I stated, not something made up. Stay within the context of what I said. This is the major problem with this thead, any single point against what is being stated is seen as an attack and all reason is dropped.
  • DTMelodicMetalDTMelodicMetal Posts: 2,799 ★★★★★
    Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.
    Rektor said:

    Imagine hyping up a revamped war map and buffed rewards intended to take 6* champs to the next rank as the game moves forward, and then allowing cheaters to get better rewards than basically every other alliance because you cant detect modified apk that turns the volume sliders into kabam game genie.

    They detected it fine in season 9, makes no sense detecting the exact same thing this season can't be done 🤷‍♂️
  • RektorRektor Posts: 673 ★★★
    Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.

    Rektor said:

    Imagine hyping up a revamped war map and buffed rewards intended to take 6* champs to the next rank as the game moves forward, and then allowing cheaters to get better rewards than basically every other alliance because you cant detect modified apk that turns the volume sliders into kabam game genie.

    They detected it fine in season 9, makes no sense detecting the exact same thing this season can't be done 🤷‍♂️


    Kabam— whether you punish these guys or not, we all know they are cheating. This is a fact that no god tier thread-derailing trolls will distract us from.

    So what do you think the long-term impact of seeing modders steal top 3 rewards from legit players will be? What do you think it will do to the future of alliance war?

    Asking for the collective group of high-level players that know this ins and outs of this game better than the people who made it along with all the famous whales in their alliances that keep the lights on.
  • BrainimpacterBrainimpacter Posts: 578 ★★★
    Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.

    Cheating is wrong. No question about that. Benefitting from someone else's punishment isn't any better. I don't even think people realize how the system would be inundated by people reporting others if you had the opportunity to gain Rewards from catching cheaters. Support would be swamped by every little chance people could.

    If a gold medal winner at the olympics is caught cheating, you dont think silver place deserves to get promoted to gold?
  • Liss_Bliss_Liss_Bliss_ Posts: 1,470 ★★★★
    Lormif said:



    Because
    1)I am pointing out they are over generalizing, claiming modding is rampant in the entire war system and not just at the very top.
    2) Pointing out that dispite what they want finding an punishing moders is mostly a reactionary process.
    3) not being 100% lock step with them.

    Jesus just stop. Your (1) is just eye bleeding to read. You are basically stating you’re gonna argue with someone if they overstate or generalize something? Come on, do you know/see/understand how childish that sounds?

    You latch onto certain words and beat threads into submission so much the heart of the matter gets lost in 10+ pages of arguing semantics.

    Just give it a rest. Let the other person feel they are right and move on. But constantly trying to one up the other person to prove your point doesn’t do anything to help resolve the issue.

    If I was to say 60% of all marvel movies made by Sony suck, but in reality only 40% suck. I’m sure you would post trying to discredit me telling me “if you knew how movies are made...... All the while you don’t have experience in movie production but just want to argue because I over exaggerated a number.

    It’s posters like (1) who harm these forums because they KNOW something is happening but because their super ego, they try to use big words in hopes that people will cave.

    I’m not going to give you anymore time or energy expect to say this. Take a break from always having to be right, from experience you’ll be much happier if you let some things just slide.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 27,087 ★★★★★

    Cheating is wrong. No question about that. Benefitting from someone else's punishment isn't any better. I don't even think people realize how the system would be inundated by people reporting others if you had the opportunity to gain Rewards from catching cheaters. Support would be swamped by every little chance people could.

    If a gold medal winner at the olympics is caught cheating, you dont think silver place deserves to get promoted to gold?
    That already happens in this game. When Alliances are reprimanded, others go up. The Points are on a sliding scale. Move one Ally down, it affects others. This isn't the Olympics, and the punishments aren't the same. In that system, Olympians are disqualified and the succession shifts. That would be perfectly fine if Kabam decided to go that route. What people are asking for here is the individual Win/Loss Rewards, and not only is it not possible to take them back and reallocate them, it's also not what is being determined here. They're not saying one side cheated and therefore lost. They're saying Ally X violated TOS in War. We can keep going over it endlessly, but I will not agree with a system that defaults Win Rewards for catching cheaters.
  • UppercutUppercut Posts: 158
    Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.
    TMV1 is rank #2 in Master

    Standing ovation, Kabam. 👏
This discussion has been closed.