We’re sorry that this update came as a surprise. The Ability to chain into a Heavy Attack from a combo is not one that is intended for any Champion, and we have never advertised it as one (except for Wasp, who has a built in short Passive stun to ensure that she is able to do it). No Champion should be able to Combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability, unless explicitly stated in their Ability description.
This was not something that was listed as an ability or an exception for She-Hulk. She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction. This was identified as an issue and resolved.
We apologize for the confusion caused by this interaction.
might as well reverse all her buffs all together because this is a direct massive nerf to a character who wasnt even that strong ,good thing ghost can still counter 99% of the content in the game and monthly event quest is a pretty much corvus playground
her ability to chain into heavy ,mind you not like "Wasp" because you need the enemy be up the wall in order to do that ,was the enabler of her kit and what made her so unique
Also what about magik sp2 power steel? It isn't described anywhere in the game. A lot of others as well. If you are using it as an argument, first make in game descriptions full and correct. Overall I as a summoner don't feel appreciated atm, wich is quit ironic, cause every day I see calendar giving me some useless stuff
Here's a bright idea: Say this wasn't intended, and nerf her, and then 'buff' her in honor of the announcement of the She-Hulk TV series. Because nerfing characters who just got a lot of attention I'm sure will help sales. Geniuses.
We’re sorry that this update came as a surprise. The Ability to chain into a Heavy Attack from a combo is not one that is intended for any Champion, and we have never advertised it as one (except for Wasp, who has a built in short Passive stun to ensure that she is able to do it). No Champion should be able to Combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability, unless explicitly stated in their Ability description.
This was not something that was listed as an ability or an exception for She-Hulk. She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction. This was identified as an issue and resolved.
We apologize for the confusion caused by this interaction.
Honestly, people should get more than an apology here, Miike.
This was a specific mechanic known throughout the community for a while and a significant attribute of the champ. You guys need to be more attuned to what is happening in game and make “fixes” like this out of the gate, not months later.
I dodged this bullet and used mine at R3 for 6.2 content. But anyone who used their hard-to-get materials on her should get them back and then some.
Dr. Zola
This was not a mechanic of this Champion, and was not mentioned as one. All Champions have the same speed and cadence to their Attacks, and no Champion should be able to combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability.
Setting aside the question of activation minimum time for heavy attacks, I don't think all champions have the same "speed and cadence" to their attacks. I don't think, for example, that all champions have an identical ability to chain into specials after ending on medium. In fact, this statement seems to run contrary to how I play the game.
This kind of reminds me of a bug I ran into and analyzed in another game, where female entities sometimes actually attacked slower (and thus did less damage over time) in practice when the game engine said they were supposed to be the same speed in the data. It turned out to be a funky glitch in the animation engine working with different animation rigging for different models. Everyone thought the bug couldn't even exist, until it was proven to exist.
This statement seems sufficiently at odds with my experience that I wonder if the game is behaving differently than the design data in this situation. I can't imagine any experienced player thinking the "cadence" of champion attacks is identical in all situations, if cadence means what I assume it means here. And it is historically true that the game's timing has been affected by things that made the game function contrary to the data, such as the infamous parry timing bug from the post 12.0 engine change.
GroundedWisdom is wrong, but let's not turn this into a bunch of personal attacks. He/She may disagree with you (and me) but don't go after other people personally.
We’re sorry that this update came as a surprise. The Ability to chain into a Heavy Attack from a combo is not one that is intended for any Champion, and we have never advertised it as one (except for Wasp, who has a built in short Passive stun to ensure that she is able to do it). No Champion should be able to Combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability, unless explicitly stated in their Ability description.
This was not something that was listed as an ability or an exception for She-Hulk. She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction. This was identified as an issue and resolved.
We apologize for the confusion caused by this interaction.
Mike, the better fix for this would be to do what Kabam usually does, and that is change her description to allow this behavior.
We all know she had the ability for years, so, following what Kabam has done to other champs to match their actual abilities, like, the recent fix to Symbiote Supreme , where the description was changed to show 50% instead of 100%, it makes more sense to fix She-hulk the exact same way, just change it & tell everyone about her "lost" ability.
I know you said "She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction." however, that means she wasn't tested or tuned at all, since she ALWAYS had it, so, ???
”Hey guys! Just a heads up, She-Hulk is bugged at the moment. Her ability to chain Heavies isn’t intended, so don’t waste resources thinking this permanent.
I believe this is the ethical way to manage bugs that cannot be fixed quickly.
Kabam Mike: “This was not a mechanic of this Champion, and was not mentioned as one. All Champions have the same speed and cadence to their Attacks, and no Champion should be able to combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability.”
She-Hulk has the same animations (and speed), since I play the game (3years+). As one of the regular users of her (despite the hate from the community she was my 2nd 5/50 back then), she has this fast triggered and long reach since then. Intended or not, that was the way she was working. Intended or not, champs have slightly different speeds on their moves and reactions. Having now a champ that has an established ability to chain a heavy ,like wasp, shouldn’t change the mechanics of older champs.
I can't stress enough that the issue is not with the actual "bug" of She Hulk. The reasoning that Kabam and the game team relayed to us is fair, and reasonable. The issue is with the play experience this has created. The lack of warning and interaction regarding She Hulks gameplay, even with MANY forum posts discussing how she's a great option for The Champion boss, other end game fights, even AW as well as well as videos on youtube showing the entire community as well. We see a great champ, and choose to use our rare resources ranking them up. and then all of a sudden we find out that those rare and valuable resources are essentially burned? The truth of the matter is, people ranked up she hulk based on what they saw, and what they understood as not a bug, since there was zero indication of it being so. Now that the game team has said there will be a change being made, and why...we move forward. We understand that as a natural process of the game. Due to a lack of communication and interaction (which could have easily been done via. Mod/Admin interaction within the forusm) the issue now is people who ranked up She Hulk are left in the dust, with valuable earned resources burned with no way to move forward. Regardless of the reasoning, the reality of the situation is that many summoners are feeling ripped off. and rightly so. Simply put, there needs to be compensation, like @Kabam Miike has once said, to rectify this situation and to make things right. we're already being made wary with the integrity of our champs and rank ups are being treated moving forward, but allowing us to rank down she hulk to move forward goes a LONG way with how this issues been treated so far.
We’re sorry that this update came as a surprise. The Ability to chain into a Heavy Attack from a combo is not one that is intended for any Champion, and we have never advertised it as one (except for Wasp, who has a built in short Passive stun to ensure that she is able to do it). No Champion should be able to Combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability, unless explicitly stated in their Ability description.
This was not something that was listed as an ability or an exception for She-Hulk. She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction. This was identified as an issue and resolved.
We apologize for the confusion caused by this interaction.
We’re sorry that this update came as a surprise. The Ability to chain into a Heavy Attack from a combo is not one that is intended for any Champion, and we have never advertised it as one (except for Wasp, who has a built in short Passive stun to ensure that she is able to do it). No Champion should be able to Combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability, unless explicitly stated in their Ability description.
This was not something that was listed as an ability or an exception for She-Hulk. She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction. This was identified as an issue and resolved.
We apologize for the confusion caused by this interaction.
Can you guys get her to have a 99.9% reliability then when it comes to heavy chain
We’re sorry that this update came as a surprise. The Ability to chain into a Heavy Attack from a combo is not one that is intended for any Champion, and we have never advertised it as one (except for Wasp, who has a built in short Passive stun to ensure that she is able to do it). No Champion should be able to Combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability, unless explicitly stated in their Ability description.
This was not something that was listed as an ability or an exception for She-Hulk. She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction. This was identified as an issue and resolved.
We apologize for the confusion caused by this interaction.
Mike, the better fix for this would be to do what Kabam usually does, and that is change her description to allow this behavior.
We all know she had the ability for years, so, following what Kabam has done to other champs to match their actual abilities, like, the recent fix to Symbiote Supreme , where the description was changed to show 50% instead of 100%, it makes more sense to fix She-hulk the exact same way, just change it & tell everyone about her "lost" ability.
I know you said "She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction." however, that means she wasn't tested or tuned at all, since she ALWAYS had it, so, ???
Kabam doesn't "usually" do that: sometimes the mechanics are bugged, and sometimes the descriptions are just plain wrong.
The problem here seems to be that there's a design rule we were not aware of, that makes this kind of chaining "outside the rules" for how champions are supposed to be implemented. When a bug is inside the rules in general but unintended for the champion specifically, Kabam can make an executive decision to allow the bug to stand. But when a bug is outside the rules that's more dangerous to keep around, because everything else in the game gets implemented as if the rule was true and that can sometimes cause nasty problems down the road. An example would be the accidentally passive stun in Archangel's abilities. No one really cared until content was created on the assumption that stuns could be always resisted. Then AA's unresistable stuns broke it because those stuns were not factored into the content.
Designers can't remember all the exceptions to all the rules: that's why the rules exist in the first place, so a few general rules can substitute for hundreds of individual behaviors. If the heavy chaining is outside the design rules like they say, which is actually likely, then giving She Hulk a pass will set an invisible land mine that some future piece of content will step on one day. This game doesn't need any more of those.
The main issue that upsets people is lack of transparency on these “bugs” and then changes made after people invest in game resources that take significant amounts of time to collect into these champs.
Don't rely on champions, abilities, tricks and moves that are considered "cheese". Anything not within the logic of the game and sound gameplay will eventually be fixed.
Take the safe route and use/rank champions that are reliable, IMO any champion who is extremely proficient, at some point might be looked at and tweaked, build a balanced roster of different tier of champions, with different kits of utility.
And for specific, end-game difficult fights, look for 1 de more option to deal with it, if you can't then wait until you do.
I'd think that an ability that she's had consistently for two years is fairly reliable.
Don't rely on champions, abilities, tricks and moves that are considered "cheese". Anything not within the logic of the game and sound gameplay will eventually be fixed.
Take the safe route and use/rank champions that are reliable, IMO any champion who is extremely proficient, at some point might be looked at and tweaked, build a balanced roster of different tier of champions, with different kits of utility.
And for specific, end-game difficult fights, look for 1 de more option to deal with it, if you can't then wait until you do.
Fyi, they can change any described mechanic, like when they removed aa passive stun, yet wasp has it now
We’re sorry that this update came as a surprise. The Ability to chain into a Heavy Attack from a combo is not one that is intended for any Champion, and we have never advertised it as one (except for Wasp, who has a built in short Passive stun to ensure that she is able to do it). No Champion should be able to Combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability, unless explicitly stated in their Ability description.
This was not something that was listed as an ability or an exception for She-Hulk. She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction. This was identified as an issue and resolved.
We apologize for the confusion caused by this interaction.
It's not 100%, only when the opponent is in the corner. And in this case there are a lot of champs which can do the same. You only change she hulk because this is the only champion which combines some good stuff and so also a 3* version can do a lol star lord without getting hit. Or a r2 she hulk can do act 6 bosses.
I also did the champion with a r3 version and i ranked her r5 with the rank up gem from the new variant a few days ago because of the things she can do. And now you tell us that is was not intended. Give me my r5 rank up gem and the r4 material back and take your she hulk ... Than i can rank my wasp r4 for the quantum trinity. Or will you fix ghost next?
We’re sorry that this update came as a surprise. The Ability to chain into a Heavy Attack from a combo is not one that is intended for any Champion, and we have never advertised it as one (except for Wasp, who has a built in short Passive stun to ensure that she is able to do it). No Champion should be able to Combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability, unless explicitly stated in their Ability description.
This was not something that was listed as an ability or an exception for She-Hulk. She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction. This was identified as an issue and resolved.
We apologize for the confusion caused by this interaction.
It's not 100%, only when the opponent is in the corner. And in this case there are a lot of champs which can do the same. You only change she hulk because this is the only champion which combines some good stuff and so also a 3* version can do a lol star lord without getting hit. Or a r2 she hulk can do act 6 bosses.
I also did the champion with a r3 version and i ranked her r5 with the rank up gem from the new variant a few days ago because of the things she can do. And now you tell us that that is was not intended. Give me my r5 rank up gem and the r4 material back and take your she hulk ... Than i can rank my wasp r4 for the quantum trinity. Or will you fix gbost next?
If a 3* can do LoL SL, then that's a sign something is off.
We’re sorry that this update came as a surprise. The Ability to chain into a Heavy Attack from a combo is not one that is intended for any Champion, and we have never advertised it as one (except for Wasp, who has a built in short Passive stun to ensure that she is able to do it). No Champion should be able to Combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability, unless explicitly stated in their Ability description.
This was not something that was listed as an ability or an exception for She-Hulk. She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction. This was identified as an issue and resolved.
We apologize for the confusion caused by this interaction.
It's not 100%, only when the opponent is in the corner. And in this case there are a lot of champs which can do the same. You only change she hulk because this is the only champion which combines some good stuff and so also a 3* version can do a lol star lord without getting hit. Or a r2 she hulk can do act 6 bosses.
I also did the champion with a r3 version and i ranked her r5 with the rank up gem from the new variant a few days ago because of the things she can do. And now you tell us that that is was not intended. Give me my r5 rank up gem and the r4 material back and take your she hulk ... Than i can rank my wasp r4 for the quantum trinity. Or will you fix gbost next?
If a 3* can do LoL SL, then that's a sign something is off.
We’re sorry that this update came as a surprise. The Ability to chain into a Heavy Attack from a combo is not one that is intended for any Champion, and we have never advertised it as one (except for Wasp, who has a built in short Passive stun to ensure that she is able to do it). No Champion should be able to Combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability, unless explicitly stated in their Ability description.
This was not something that was listed as an ability or an exception for She-Hulk. She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction. This was identified as an issue and resolved.
We apologize for the confusion caused by this interaction.
It's not 100%, only when the opponent is in the corner. And in this case there are a lot of champs which can do the same. You only change she hulk because this is the only champion which combines some good stuff and so also a 3* version can do a lol star lord without getting hit. Or a r2 she hulk can do act 6 bosses.
I also did the champion with a r3 version and i ranked her r5 with the rank up gem from the new variant a few days ago because of the things she can do. And now you tell us that that is was not intended. Give me my r5 rank up gem and the r4 material back and take your she hulk ... Than i can rank my wasp r4 for the quantum trinity. Or will you fix gbost next?
If a 3* can do LoL SL, then that's a sign something is off.
No it’s not that’s due to her slow and petrify
I just don't think a 3* should be taken into LoL at this stage in the game. Also, if you're saying it's because of Slow and Petrify, neither of those have changed.
Comments
her ability to chain into heavy ,mind you not like "Wasp" because you need the enemy be up the wall in order to do that ,was the enabler of her kit and what made her so unique
Because nerfing characters who just got a lot of attention I'm sure will help sales.
Geniuses.
This kind of reminds me of a bug I ran into and analyzed in another game, where female entities sometimes actually attacked slower (and thus did less damage over time) in practice when the game engine said they were supposed to be the same speed in the data. It turned out to be a funky glitch in the animation engine working with different animation rigging for different models. Everyone thought the bug couldn't even exist, until it was proven to exist.
This statement seems sufficiently at odds with my experience that I wonder if the game is behaving differently than the design data in this situation. I can't imagine any experienced player thinking the "cadence" of champion attacks is identical in all situations, if cadence means what I assume it means here. And it is historically true that the game's timing has been affected by things that made the game function contrary to the data, such as the infamous parry timing bug from the post 12.0 engine change.
Mike, the better fix for this would be to do what Kabam usually does, and that is change her description to allow this behavior.
We all know she had the ability for years, so, following what Kabam has done to other champs to match their actual abilities, like, the recent fix to Symbiote Supreme , where the description was changed to show 50% instead of 100%, it makes more sense to fix She-hulk the exact same way, just change it & tell everyone about her "lost" ability.
I know you said "She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction." however, that means she wasn't tested or tuned at all, since she ALWAYS had it, so, ???
“This was not a mechanic of this Champion, and was not mentioned as one. All Champions have the same speed and cadence to their Attacks, and no Champion should be able to combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability.”
She-Hulk has the same animations (and speed), since I play the game (3years+). As one of the regular users of her (despite the hate from the community she was my 2nd 5/50 back then), she has this fast triggered and long reach since then. Intended or not, that was the way she was working. Intended or not, champs have slightly different speeds on their moves and reactions. Having now a champ that has an established ability to chain a heavy ,like wasp, shouldn’t change the mechanics of older champs.
The issue is with the play experience this has created. The lack of warning and interaction regarding She Hulks gameplay, even with MANY forum posts discussing how she's a great option for The Champion boss, other end game fights, even AW as well as well as videos on youtube showing the entire community as well.
We see a great champ, and choose to use our rare resources ranking them up.
and then all of a sudden we find out that those rare and valuable resources are essentially burned?
The truth of the matter is, people ranked up she hulk based on what they saw, and what they understood as not a bug, since there was zero indication of it being so.
Now that the game team has said there will be a change being made, and why...we move forward. We understand that as a natural process of the game.
Due to a lack of communication and interaction (which could have easily been done via. Mod/Admin interaction within the forusm) the issue now is people who ranked up She Hulk are left in the dust, with valuable earned resources burned with no way to move forward.
Regardless of the reasoning, the reality of the situation is that many summoners are feeling ripped off. and rightly so.
Simply put, there needs to be compensation, like @Kabam Miike has once said, to rectify this situation and to make things right.
we're already being made wary with the integrity of our champs and rank ups are being treated moving forward, but allowing us to rank down she hulk to move forward goes a LONG way with how this issues been treated so far.
The problem here seems to be that there's a design rule we were not aware of, that makes this kind of chaining "outside the rules" for how champions are supposed to be implemented. When a bug is inside the rules in general but unintended for the champion specifically, Kabam can make an executive decision to allow the bug to stand. But when a bug is outside the rules that's more dangerous to keep around, because everything else in the game gets implemented as if the rule was true and that can sometimes cause nasty problems down the road. An example would be the accidentally passive stun in Archangel's abilities. No one really cared until content was created on the assumption that stuns could be always resisted. Then AA's unresistable stuns broke it because those stuns were not factored into the content.
Designers can't remember all the exceptions to all the rules: that's why the rules exist in the first place, so a few general rules can substitute for hundreds of individual behaviors. If the heavy chaining is outside the design rules like they say, which is actually likely, then giving She Hulk a pass will set an invisible land mine that some future piece of content will step on one day. This game doesn't need any more of those.
The main issue that upsets people is lack of transparency on these “bugs” and then changes made after people invest in game resources that take significant amounts of time to collect into these champs.
@Omegatron
I also did the champion with a r3 version and i ranked her r5 with the rank up gem from the new variant a few days ago because of the things she can do. And now you tell us that is was not intended. Give me my r5 rank up gem and the r4 material back and take your she hulk ... Than i can rank my wasp r4 for the quantum trinity. Or will you fix ghost next?
She's practically worthless in labyrinth type fights.
Good luck pushing the opponent to a bar of power and baiting their special so you can refresh your furies with limber as the global.
She's trash now.