She-Hulk Heavy Speed Bug Fix [Title Edited for Clarity]

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Comments

  • GreekhitGreekhit Posts: 1,330 ★★★★
    edited August 2019
    JohnHS said:

    At least they're gonna put the Special Attack buttons back where they were. I kept missing them.

    Let’s hope we get also this bs auto fight button removed from in fight screen too. Already costed me five revs on those epic labs.
  • BIGT38BIGT38 Posts: 10
    Right after I tank her up, this is total BS, y’all gonna send out tank down tickets ????
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,321 ★★★★★

    DrZola said:

    Cain said:

    iRetr0 said:

    I noticed my comments have been deleted, so I will say it again.

    I am no "tin-foil" hat person, but what Kabam has done with Sym Supreme and She-Hulk is, quite frankly, not showing any good signs for the upcoming future. They can do this with LITERALLY any champion and just say "We never identified this bug until now" or "This isn't the way we intended the champ to work" excuse and think they could get away with it.

    They didn't do anything with SS. He never operated at 100%.
    So the spotlight and the description say Symbiote Supreme should be at 100%...but he didn’t operate that way so they ”updated” the text.

    She hulk had no description of her heavy attack, but it’s been the same for years...because that’s how she operated...not they are “updating” her mechanics.

    Yet their “fix” both times manages to reduce champ effectiveness.
    Nothing reduced with SS. He literally never functioned like that. They even discussed changing him to match that Description and realized it was too much.
    Shulk never indicated she was supposed to function that way. Same thing happened with Drax. There was another similar interaction that had to be addressed with GP. Champs aren't supposed to corner others like that.
    I think you have your “cornering” confused—try chaining a heavy with Shulk on 6.2.6 Champion after he has a Sp1.

    GwenPool was a broken mechanic that basically allowed for continuous heavy chaining. The two instances are quite different.

    Dr. Zola
    If there wasn't any effectiveness to the technique, we wouldn't be arguing it.
    "Effectiveness" is not a reason for a nerf lol. Dr Zola said they were quite different, and he is correct. One was a broken mechanic, the other is not, whether or not it was intended.
    Actually they're the same. If they're fixing it, it's a broken mechanic.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 11,452 Guardian
    DrZola said:

    One simple point I would add is this: it’s impossible for me to see how it is fair to put the burden on the players to know about the cadence and timing rules She-Hulk supposedly violated.

    Even if the players aren't game designers, some cadence rules I think are obvious. For example, if a champion came along that didn't include the pause at the end of medium #2 or light attack #4 they could do infinite combos: just keep attacking with basic attacks and the defender couldn't ever respond. I think we all would know that was broken, even if we couldn't exactly articulate the design rule being violated.

    This is different because this isn't obvious, and because the devs have made no serious attempt to inform the playerbase about this kind of thing. The cadence rule above seems obvious because it is obviously exploitive to allow. But combo into heavy doesn't seem obviously exploitive, so it is something only a designer would really think about. The average player shouldn't have to be a game designer to understand the game they are playing.
  • JohnHSJohnHS Posts: 509 ★★★

    DNA3000 said:

    mfleury said:

    I understand what you are saying but the problem is the way they handle the bugs.

    If anyone wants to complain that Kabam is horrible when it comes to communicating game intent, documenting in-game abilities and mechanics, bug tracking, or documenting bug fixes, they will get no argument from me.

    I don't really blame the players for complaining about these kinds of changes. I'm simply stating that players are really complaining about the wrong thing. They are actually inadvertently directing their anger towards other players, when they should be directing it at the source of the problem: the poor communication and bug management processes in the game that range from poorly maintained to completely non-existent.

    There's no good way to report bugs or anomalies. You can open a ticket. Ha ha, just kidding. And you can post on the forums. But the developers don't, and can't follow the forums continuously. And to the extent that they do, they don't always spot the right things and there's no way to follow up to see if anything is being worked on or even acknowledged. As far as I'm aware, it is no one's actual responsibility to track player-reported bugs specifically. For a game of this size and complexity, that's unacceptable.
    I can agree with your statement. It’s so much that She-Hulk was bugged, it’s the fact that Kabam failed to tell us months ago. Not only that, but ability existed because of her animations & movements, something that is not found in an Ability Page. Furthermore, there are several encounters where movements can bypass certain things, like X-23’s heavy countering Mordo for example. So it’s plausible to believe this was working as intended. A simple message from Miike like...

    ”Hey guys! Just a heads up, She-Hulk is bugged at the moment. Her ability to chain Heavies isn’t intended, so don’t waste resources thinking this permanent. We were going to wait months to tell you this, but common sense told us that was a pretty dirty move, so now is fine 🙂”.
    *years ago, you mean.
  • AleorAleor Posts: 2,332 ★★★★
    And she doesn't counter any unstoppable skill champ. Compare that to ghost, who's only bad matchup is ebany mow. Sh is not even close to being op
  • AleorAleor Posts: 2,332 ★★★★
    Cain said:

    Where are you Kabam...how about a response that makes sense and sho

    DrZola said:

    Cain said:

    iRetr0 said:

    I noticed my comments have been deleted, so I will say it again.

    I am no "tin-foil" hat person, but what Kabam has done with Sym Supreme and She-Hulk is, quite frankly, not showing any good signs for the upcoming future. They can do this with LITERALLY any champion and just say "We never identified this bug until now" or "This isn't the way we intended the champ to work" excuse and think they could get away with it.

    They didn't do anything with SS. He never operated at 100%.
    So the spotlight and the description say Symbiote Supreme should be at 100%...but he didn’t operate that way so they ”updated” the text.

    She hulk had no description of her heavy attack, but it’s been the same for years...because that’s how she operated...not they are “updating” her mechanics.

    Yet their “fix” both times manages to reduce champ effectiveness.
    Nothing reduced with SS. He literally never functioned like that. They even discussed changing him to match that Description and realized it was too much.
    Shulk never indicated she was supposed to function that way. Same thing happened with Drax. There was another similar interaction that had to be addressed with GP. Champs aren't supposed to corner others like that.
    I think you have your “cornering” confused—try chaining a heavy with Shulk on 6.2.6 Champion after he has a Sp1.

    GwenPool was a broken mechanic that basically allowed for continuous heavy chaining. The two instances are quite different.

    Dr. Zola
    If there wasn't any effectiveness to the technique, we wouldn't be arguing it.
    "Effectiveness" is not a reason for a nerf lol. Dr Zola said they were quite different, and he is correct. One was a broken mechanic, the other is not, whether or not it was intended.
    Actually they're the same. If they're fixing it, it's a broken mechanic.
    You don’t form a logical argument built upon solid premises. Please stop clogging up the discussion when you don’t answer consistently.
    This guy always does.
    Thanks to someone above I found out you can go to his profile and ignore him. Still see his avatar when he posts something, but can't read all the nonsense he's writing. Just ignore it
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 4,000 ★★★★★
    edited August 2019
    DNA3000 said:

    DrZola said:

    One simple point I would add is this: it’s impossible for me to see how it is fair to put the burden on the players to know about the cadence and timing rules She-Hulk supposedly violated.

    Even if the players aren't game designers, some cadence rules I think are obvious. For example, if a champion came along that didn't include the pause at the end of medium #2 or light attack #4 they could do infinite combos: just keep attacking with basic attacks and the defender couldn't ever respond. I think we all would know that was broken, even if we couldn't exactly articulate the design rule being violated.

    This is different because this isn't obvious, and because the devs have made no serious attempt to inform the playerbase about this kind of thing. The cadence rule above seems obvious because it is obviously exploitive to allow. But combo into heavy doesn't seem obviously exploitive, so it is something only a designer would really think about. The average player shouldn't have to be a game designer to understand the game they are playing.
    Totally agree, and that’s the issue. In addition to not being obvious, this was long-standing, was highlighted as a feature, was allowed to continue through a beta, was spotlighted in a Content Creator bio...

    I would also add that the SheHulk buff came along with Spider-Gwen’s buff, and both champions seemed to be tweaked specifically to be able to deal with some of the pervasive unstoppable effects in high end content.

    Reliance on her heavy mechanics remaining the same would be a totally reasonable position in my opinion.

    Dr. Zola
  • MasChingonMasChingon Posts: 11

    Hey everybody,

    We’re sorry that this update came as a surprise. The Ability to chain into a Heavy Attack from a combo is not one that is intended for any Champion, and we have never advertised it as one (except for Wasp, who has a built in short Passive stun to ensure that she is able to do it). No Champion should be able to Combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability, unless explicitly stated in their Ability description.

    This was not something that was listed as an ability or an exception for She-Hulk. She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction. This was identified as an issue and resolved.

    We apologize for the confusion caused by this interaction.

    OML also combos his hits into heavy with 100% reliability. This is a bug that needs to be fixed i
  • AleorAleor Posts: 2,332 ★★★★
    edited August 2019
    @MasChingon
    If it happens to sh, I'm afraid he will be nerfed as well, so I won't take mine to r5. It's really strange to see with how much they both benefit from heavy and nodes like heavy aegis, where you can only use wasp reliably vs Mordo for example. Like aw node forcing you to bring the only one specific champ of what, 150 now? Loool
This discussion has been closed.