She-Hulk Heavy Speed Bug Fix [Title Edited for Clarity]

World Eater · August 2019

This is pretty ridiculous. She hulk has been like this for years and now it’s an issue? She was revamped and they didn’t notice? I don’t remember anyone talking about this being a bug. Did they just drop this in patch notes for the next update and expect that to go over well, lol? Never trust kabam. There’s no accountability or oversight.

Nick_Caine_32 · August 2019

Yeeeeeeeah this is really really honestly some of the biggest BS I’ve seen in this game. This champ has been in the game for over 3 years with this mechanic, had a complete rework for beta with this ability retained after it was done, and currently has kabam advertising it in the summoner showdown. NOW it’s a bug fix? Are you kidding me?

I made my way through variant 3 and got a science rank 3-4 gem and promptly used it on she hulk and started practicing to try and get past 6.2. You just took the wind completely out of my sails. I feel completely cheated once again and I feel like it’s just getting so demoralizing to see so many champs (new AND old champs now) suddenly having something classified as a bug when it was advertised and encouraged by kabam directly. If we can’t trust the info we get then how will we EVER be confident the champ were pumping resources into wont be wasted? I mean I literally used the gem on her when I completed variant 3 last week. I was so proud of that and now it feels like a waste of time.

Some may argue she’s still amazing but this is such a far cry from the transparency kabam swore they were aiming for, and the answers we’ve got on here about it seem out of touch and condescending at best. What a huge leap backward guys.

I’m never one to cry rank down tickets but a she hulk specific RDT is absolutely needed here. Or take down your own video praising someone for doing this in your tournament. Either way it’s yet another bad look and self inflicted wound you’ve done to yourself at the detriment to the players.

Ultimatheory · August 2019

I disagreed with a few things but one that stood out is that she is steamrolling AW. Any player who has brought She-Hulk into AW knows that it’s a real gamble to land a heavy chain if the opponent has Stand Your Ground. It’s really not worth the risk.

And to be honest, there are tons of nodes in end game content that just make her useless. Not to mention an entire class she can’t use her abilities against. She filled a niche role for me and I have other champs that I would consider vastly more useful.

DNA3000 · August 2019

LilMaddogHT said:

DNA3000 said:

LilMaddogHT said:
Examples of non-She-hulk champions that can do heavy at end of combo....
Every champ can heavy after combo if the AI chooses not to retaliate at that exact moment. The issue with She Hulk appears to be that she can do so in a way where the AI cannot retaliate even if it wants to because of the specifics of how her attack timing works.
No the champs with these quick upper cut heavies can 100% heavy at end of combo when they are up against the wall when they are under a bar of power. That is the same 2 requirements for She-Hulk to do it as well 100% of time.

If those heavies are fast enough to beat the combo timer consistently, then I stand corrected. I do not attempt that maneuver often enough to know they are capable of working 100% of the time. If that is true, that means the design rule Kabam claims exists is one the developers haven't been following or testing for since forever. A design rule that the devs don't actually follow is not a true design rule, and the devs can't arbitrarily enforce it. And if they retroactively enforce it on every champion after all this time, that would be very problematic in my opinion.

World Eater · August 2019

mfleury said:

Kabam Miike said:

mfleury said:

Kabam Miike said:

DrZola said:

Kabam Miike said:
Hey everybody,

We’re sorry that this update came as a surprise. The Ability to chain into a Heavy Attack from a combo is not one that is intended for any Champion, and we have never advertised it as one (except for Wasp, who has a built in short Passive stun to ensure that she is able to do it). No Champion should be able to Combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability, unless explicitly stated in their Ability description.

This was not something that was listed as an ability or an exception for She-Hulk. She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction. This was identified as an issue and resolved.

We apologize for the confusion caused by this interaction.

Honestly, people should get more than an apology here, Miike.

This was a specific mechanic known throughout the community for a while and a significant attribute of the champ. You guys need to be more attuned to what is happening in game and make “fixes” like this out of the gate, not months later.

I dodged this bullet and used mine at R3 for 6.2 content. But anyone who used their hard-to-get materials on her should get them back and then some.

Dr. Zola
This was not a mechanic of this Champion, and was not mentioned as one. All Champions have the same speed and cadence to their Attacks, and no Champion should be able to combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability.
If that is true, shouldn't every champ be able to use a sp1 or sp2 after a combo? Why some of them can't?

And don't tell me you are not aware of this when you said you would change the old captain marvel sp2 because of that.
They all should be able to, and if they are not, that is a bug that should be reported. If you look back through the changelog, you'll see that we fix those issues when they arise. So if you see one that isn't consistently working, let us know!
Yes, and my CM is waiting for her new sp2 you promised about 2 years ago. Where is it?

Captain Marvel? that’s been fixed for a while. They sped it up and it’s rarely blocked.

DanveerKarna · August 2019

Ranked up Thor, DS...got nerfed
Ranked up SH...got nerfed (5* R4)

Real Life hits hard, Kabam hits harder. In your face Summoners🥰

hungryhungrybbq · August 2019

One rdt actually won't cut it for me. I took her directly from 3 to 5. I want the resources for r4 back as well as for r5. I would have left her at r3 had I known about this impending "fix". It's as simple as that.

Rougeknight87 · August 2019

GroundedWisdom said:

Rougeknight87 said:
Why let this persist for so long without even mentioning that she wasnt functioning as intended? I’m sure the devs and moderators watch as much game or hero specific content as the rest of us and were acutely aware that this mechanic was a driving reason as to why people were ranking her and using her, why then has no-one from kabam taken the time to forewarn customers that this specific function was in fact not meant for her design and would in fact be corrected?
Gross negligence from whoever is responsible for letting this “bug” continue for long without At least updating people on it so they could make an informed decision on what they use their hard earned resources for.
Really hope they offer people the chance to reverse their decision as it seems the only reason this situation has developed is because the devs have been asleep at the wheel or lack the knowledge of their own game to truly grasp the impact a decision like this would have on the specific champion and her general usefulness within their own meta. Either way it doesn’t look very competent
If I had to venture a guess, I'd say they weren't looking at it until some type of interaction was introduced which brought it to light.

It’s been well known you can chain a heavy onto the end of a combo for long long while, was it not viewed as a “bug” back when she was first buffed and people started making gameplay videos of her? Been mentioned numerous times on the forums as to why she has become a viable rank up option. This was a driving reason even before 6.2 and KT1’s LOL video. Seems they have only decided to act now because they have realised how useful she is. Pretty shady if so, all this will be fine of course if they compensate people for their own mistake or for their own inaction. Seems fairly appropriate, not sure how anyone can view it otherwise

Duke_Silver · August 2019

I demand rank down tickets.

Samdroxtaar · August 2019

One more shameless decision i ranked her up only for champion shes not that op to be nerf

Duke_Silver · August 2019

I guess I should be more civil. I’m not yet sure how I’ll take to this update once it goes live. I’ll probably still be happy with my Shulk, but I definitely sympathise with people who won’t feel the same. Thus, I feel like Shulk-specific RDTs would make sense.

Zuko_ILC · August 2019

Kabam Miike said:

DrZola said:

Kabam Miike said:
Hey everybody,

We’re sorry that this update came as a surprise. The Ability to chain into a Heavy Attack from a combo is not one that is intended for any Champion, and we have never advertised it as one (except for Wasp, who has a built in short Passive stun to ensure that she is able to do it). No Champion should be able to Combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability, unless explicitly stated in their Ability description.

This was not something that was listed as an ability or an exception for She-Hulk. She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction. This was identified as an issue and resolved.

We apologize for the confusion caused by this interaction.

Honestly, people should get more than an apology here, Miike.

This was a specific mechanic known throughout the community for a while and a significant attribute of the champ. You guys need to be more attuned to what is happening in game and make “fixes” like this out of the gate, not months later.

I dodged this bullet and used mine at R3 for 6.2 content. But anyone who used their hard-to-get materials on her should get them back and then some.

Dr. Zola
This was not a mechanic of this Champion, and was not mentioned as one. All Champions have the same speed and cadence to their Attacks, and no Champion should be able to combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability.

I'm sorry but not all champs have the same speed and cadence to their attacks. Hyperion, Old man Logan, IWIM, new champ Warlock, ironman and superior im still cant combo into L2. This statement just proves you guys don't play the game at all and it's really sad to see. You can't post a comment like this when it is 100% false information. Kabam needs to be held responsible for testing their own champs that many customers pay for.

Zuko_ILC · August 2019

Kabam Miike said:

Thecrusher_9756 said:

Kabam Miike said:

JosephPoerio said:

Kabam Miike said:
Hey everybody,

We’re sorry that this update came as a surprise. The Ability to chain into a Heavy Attack from a combo is not one that is intended for any Champion, and we have never advertised it as one (except for Wasp, who has a built in short Passive stun to ensure that she is able to do it). No Champion should be able to Combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability, unless explicitly stated in their Ability description.

This was not something that was listed as an ability or an exception for She-Hulk. She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction. This was identified as an issue and resolved.

We apologize for the confusion caused by this interaction.

@Kabam Miike I understand where you are coming from, but why can’t we get a fix for the issues affecting the players? Like Ghost’s intercept being blocked/parried in AW, Corvus’ coldsnap immunity not working on freezerburn nodes, the title notification not going away for summoners sigil title, etc. Why do all the “bug” fixes seem so lopsided?
It's not like we're not trying to fix those bugs as well. Some of them are just easier to investifate/identify/fix than others. In this case, it was fixing the speed in which She-Hulk starts her Heavy attack, which was faster than all other Champions.
There are many champs that have different heavy speeds. For example Hyperion’s heavy seems to be a lot longer than most champs. Don’t believe it? Just test it on a limber node it gets to a point where he can’t parry and heavy anymore but that point seems to be a lot earlier than a lot of champs...
Not the actual length of the Heavy Attack, but the time in which it takes to activate it. If you think Hyperion's is too slow, we can take a look to see if it's not working correctly.

Warlocks is way too fast you need to look into that. Now you've been notified so please fix.

MRMOJO77 · August 2019

IDoge said:

Kabam Miike said:

DrZola said:

Kabam Miike said:
Hey everybody,

We’re sorry that this update came as a surprise. The Ability to chain into a Heavy Attack from a combo is not one that is intended for any Champion, and we have never advertised it as one (except for Wasp, who has a built in short Passive stun to ensure that she is able to do it). No Champion should be able to Combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability, unless explicitly stated in their Ability description.

This was not something that was listed as an ability or an exception for She-Hulk. She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction. This was identified as an issue and resolved.

We apologize for the confusion caused by this interaction.

Honestly, people should get more than an apology here, Miike.

This was a specific mechanic known throughout the community for a while and a significant attribute of the champ. You guys need to be more attuned to what is happening in game and make “fixes” like this out of the gate, not months later.

I dodged this bullet and used mine at R3 for 6.2 content. But anyone who used their hard-to-get materials on her should get them back and then some.

Dr. Zola
This was not a mechanic of this Champion, and was not mentioned as one. All Champions have the same speed and cadence to their Attacks, and no Champion should be able to combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability.
If all champions have the same heavy attack speeds then how come you cannot spam cull obsidian heavy in the corner? Get your stuff together.

That's a lie. If all had the same speed and cadence then Hyperion, imiw, Phoenix to name a couple would be faster.. but some of the slowest heavies in the game.

GroundedWisdom · August 2019

LeNoirFaineant said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LeNoirFaineant said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Cain said:

GroundedWisdom said:

iRetr0 said:
I noticed my comments have been deleted, so I will say it again.

I am no "tin-foil" hat person, but what Kabam has done with Sym Supreme and She-Hulk is, quite frankly, not showing any good signs for the upcoming future. They can do this with LITERALLY any champion and just say "We never identified this bug until now" or "This isn't the way we intended the champ to work" excuse and think they could get away with it.
They didn't do anything with SS. He never operated at 100%.
So the spotlight and the description say Symbiote Supreme should be at 100%...but he didn’t operate that way so they ”updated” the text.

She hulk had no description of her heavy attack, but it’s been the same for years...because that’s how she operated...not they are “updating” her mechanics.

Yet their “fix” both times manages to reduce champ effectiveness.
Nothing reduced with SS. He literally never functioned like that. They even discussed changing him to match that Description and realized it was too much.
Shulk never indicated she was supposed to function that way. Same thing happened with Drax. There was another similar interaction that had to be addressed with GP. Champs aren't supposed to corner others like that.
I think you have your “cornering” confused—try chaining a heavy with Shulk on 6.2.6 Champion after he has a Sp1.

GwenPool was a broken mechanic that basically allowed for continuous heavy chaining. The two instances are quite different.

Dr. Zola
If there wasn't any effectiveness to the technique, we wouldn't be arguing it.
"Effectiveness" is not a reason for a nerf lol. Dr Zola said they were quite different, and he is correct. One was a broken mechanic, the other is not, whether or not it was intended.
Actually they're the same. If they're fixing it, it's a broken mechanic.
This is wrong on so many levels it's hard to know where to start. Everything they "fix" is a broken mechanic and the same as everything else that they "fix"? Even if I were to agree with the implied premise that Kabam can do no wrong (they are fixing it ergo...) the conclusion that "they're the same" (at least in any meaningful way relevant to the point) doesn't even follow. And none of this even addresses your bizarre comment that somehow the effectiveness of shehulk's heavy is relevant.

Do you usually fix things that aren't broken? Even looking at the loose use of the term "fix" and equating it with "change", both outcomes are the same. They don't want the loophole of chain Stun with GP, and they don't want Shulk to combo into a Heavy. Neither one is intended, and hence broken.

thudd22 · August 2019

We are going to be receiving the opportunity to get back out resources, right? I mean... that’s 10 t2a and an awakening gem in my case that I would not consider without this mechanic.

Patchie93 · August 2019

Zuko_ILC said:

Kabam Miike said:

Thecrusher_9756 said:

Kabam Miike said:

JosephPoerio said:

Kabam Miike said:
Hey everybody,

We’re sorry that this update came as a surprise. The Ability to chain into a Heavy Attack from a combo is not one that is intended for any Champion, and we have never advertised it as one (except for Wasp, who has a built in short Passive stun to ensure that she is able to do it). No Champion should be able to Combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability, unless explicitly stated in their Ability description.

This was not something that was listed as an ability or an exception for She-Hulk. She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction. This was identified as an issue and resolved.

We apologize for the confusion caused by this interaction.

@Kabam Miike I understand where you are coming from, but why can’t we get a fix for the issues affecting the players? Like Ghost’s intercept being blocked/parried in AW, Corvus’ coldsnap immunity not working on freezerburn nodes, the title notification not going away for summoners sigil title, etc. Why do all the “bug” fixes seem so lopsided?
It's not like we're not trying to fix those bugs as well. Some of them are just easier to investifate/identify/fix than others. In this case, it was fixing the speed in which She-Hulk starts her Heavy attack, which was faster than all other Champions.
There are many champs that have different heavy speeds. For example Hyperion’s heavy seems to be a lot longer than most champs. Don’t believe it? Just test it on a limber node it gets to a point where he can’t parry and heavy anymore but that point seems to be a lot earlier than a lot of champs...
Not the actual length of the Heavy Attack, but the time in which it takes to activate it. If you think Hyperion's is too slow, we can take a look to see if it's not working correctly.
Warlocks is way too fast you need to look into that. Now you've been notified so please fix.

Post it in the bug forums where it wont get lost in the chatter. Same to the guy who mentioned OML

Woogieboogie · August 2019

joke1004 said:
This is absolutely terrible. People ranked her for that reason only. She had a unique ability that’s absolutely not op, but of course Kabam has to nerf her...

I wanna see the OG. This is total ba I ranked her for 6.3

jnikolas92 · August 2019

- There are other champions in the game who can chain a heavy onto a 4 hit combo. Why is She Hulk the only one being "fixed"?

- There was ZERO indication that She Hulk's game play was bugged or non-intended since her buff was implemented. There have been many discussions, videos and threads on the Kabam forums that talked about She Hulk being a counter for X fight, or for X quest. Not once did a Kabam Mod/Admin indicate that her current gameplay was non-intended or a bug. Youtube videos from popular content creators over the last few months have highlighted She Hulk, and not once were we made aware that any part of her gameplay was non-intended or a bug.

- Your Summoner Showdown introductions highlighted that a Rank 2 She Hulk was used to defeat the Champion boss in 6.2. This indicates that the game team was aware that She Hulk's gameplay had an "unintended" aspect to it. YET...nothing was announced or passed on to us summoners. Not only does this confirm that the game team was aware of the "issue", it confirms that She Hulk was advertised to us followers as an extremely rankable champ.
In between this time period...I took my 5* She Hulk to Rank 5 with the following in mind:

1. Content Creators (some official CCP members) highlighted She Hulk as a Rank 5 worthy champion

2. Nothing in the forums had indicated that She Hulk was not working as intended

3. The game team clearly knew that She Hulks current gameplay existed, and didn't warn/indicate summoners otherwise

With these 3 factors in mind, I used RARE and VALUABLE game resources on She Hulk.

- Given that we were not made aware that any part of She Hulk's game play was unintended, rank up resources were made on a champion whose function is being changed. To quote a Kabam Game Team member from the forums:
"Rank Down tickets are only for when a character is adjusted to no longer perform the way they once did"

Since NO indication was made to us by the Game Team that She Hulk wasn't functioning as intended, and we know that there was plenty of opportunity to warn summoners earlier...it seems only fair that She Hulk be ranked down in this scenario.

It simply isn't our fault or our control that communication and intention by the Game Team wasn't adequate in this situation. By not allowing us to move forward with the lost/burned resources, you're telling us that we are always at the mercy of poor communication/intention by the game team.

As stated above...the actions and non-actions by the Game Team lead me to understand that there was NOTHING wrong with She Hulk's gameplay. Since there was no indication that She Hulk was bugged or not working as intended WHEN THERE WAS PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITY TO TELL US OTHERWISE, I struggle to understand why I should be punished (by wasting resources on a changed champion) when I did nothing wrong.

With the reasons listed in this response, I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to rank down my 5* She Hulk.

I look forward to your response

Zuro · August 2019

IDoge said:
https://youtu.be/PSJ_DDDGALc

Don't give them anymore ideas

Jayfire1707 · August 2019

This is incredibly disappointing on kabams part out of nowhere nerf.I have 5/65 she hulk and one of the reasons I took her up was for her ability to heavy chain when they’re IN THE CORNER

She-Hulk Heavy Speed Bug Fix [Title Edited for Clarity]

Comments