Transparency

cdub71cdub71 Member Posts: 79 ★
in General Discussion
First off I agree with the change in She Hulk, this email is meant as constructive criticism to the way it was handled and executed.

It has been said over and over again that your goal is to be as transparent as possible when it comes to changes in the game since 12.0. I think its a fair question to ask when you discovered the issue with She Hulk and why wasn't it posted in the forum. The champion was updated something like 5 months ago and countless people have ranked her up after the release. You know what it takes to rank up a champ, you obviously know how valuable the items are because of you set the price of the offers that we get daily for those items. Yet there is no warning that a champion is being nerfed, or what ever you want to label it as. If this issue was under investigation why weren't we told so we could decide to take the chance of using the items that we purchase on this champion. She hulk clearly meets the criteria for rank down tickets that was set by Kabam Mike in 2017.

At this point can we get a working list of any and all issues under investigation so we can consider these issues before using our hard earned money, time, and resources on champs that will be changed.
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Comments

  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    1) they posted it on the forum before the change
    2) act 6.2 came out just over 2 months ago, not 5+
    3) this is a bug fix, not a nerf, you should not rely on undocumented abilities of a champ.
    4) as it is not a nerf it does not meet the criteria, especially no more than domino or SS do.
    5) they WERE transparent, your gripe is that they could not go back in time to tell you before they knew.
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • UnknownUnknown
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  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    cdub71 said:


    1) Please link where this was posted that it was under investigation.
    2) I speaking about the character update not 6.2, the issue with she hulk effects more than just 6.2
    3)it is changing the reason why people ranked her up, something that could be done for months on end that we all assume is the way its supposed to function, this character went through Beta testing I believe so why would anyone assume its not working as intended.
    5) Show me where they were transparent since the release of the update that this was under investigation before you tell me my gripe is unfounded. You obviously know it all so should be able to clearly link when it was first mentioned and what was said about instead of just throwing out blanket statements that dismiss everything I said

    1) They posted the change was coming, they dont have to post something is "under investigation" if they know it is a bug, they only do that for the long running hard to fix bugs, or things they are unsure of. Also dont move the goal post, or be clearer on your statements.
    2) Far enough, your comment was unspecific considering the boss she is there for is "the champion"
    3) The champion is supposed to be have as all other champions, plus their character sheet. If she was supposed to have a quick heavy it would state it as others do. do not rank up based on assumptions.
    5) see number one. You are confusing transparent something else, honestly I dont know. Transparent just means they will let you know what they are doing, not that they will ask your permission, or add an "under investigation" phase for something that does not require an investigation.
  • RagamugginGunnerRagamugginGunner Member Posts: 2,210 ★★★★★
    They don't understand the meaning of the word.
  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Member Posts: 599 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    1) they posted it on the forum before the change
    2) act 6.2 came out just over 2 months ago, not 5+
    3) this is a bug fix, not a nerf, you should not rely on undocumented abilities of a champ.
    4) as it is not a nerf it does not meet the criteria, especially no more than domino or SS do.
    5) they WERE transparent, your gripe is that they could not go back in time to tell you before they knew.

    SUPER hesitant to respond here but are you seriously suggesting that they only realised it was bug until after last update?
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    1) they posted it on the forum before the change
    2) act 6.2 came out just over 2 months ago, not 5+
    3) this is a bug fix, not a nerf, you should not rely on undocumented abilities of a champ.
    4) as it is not a nerf it does not meet the criteria, especially no more than domino or SS do.
    5) they WERE transparent, your gripe is that they could not go back in time to tell you before they knew.

    SUPER hesitant to respond here but are you seriously suggesting that they only realised it was bug until after last update?
    That is what they stated and there is no evidence to the contrary.
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  • RagamugginGunnerRagamugginGunner Member Posts: 2,210 ★★★★★
    Lormif said:

    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    1) they posted it on the forum before the change
    2) act 6.2 came out just over 2 months ago, not 5+
    3) this is a bug fix, not a nerf, you should not rely on undocumented abilities of a champ.
    4) as it is not a nerf it does not meet the criteria, especially no more than domino or SS do.
    5) they WERE transparent, your gripe is that they could not go back in time to tell you before they knew.

    SUPER hesitant to respond here but are you seriously suggesting that they only realised it was bug until after last update?
    That is what they stated and there is no evidence to the contrary.
    Wrong.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited August 2019
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  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Member Posts: 599 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    cdub71 said:


    1) Please link where this was posted that it was under investigation.
    2) I speaking about the character update not 6.2, the issue with she hulk effects more than just 6.2
    3)it is changing the reason why people ranked her up, something that could be done for months on end that we all assume is the way its supposed to function, this character went through Beta testing I believe so why would anyone assume its not working as intended.
    5) Show me where they were transparent since the release of the update that this was under investigation before you tell me my gripe is unfounded. You obviously know it all so should be able to clearly link when it was first mentioned and what was said about instead of just throwing out blanket statements that dismiss everything I said

    1) They posted the change was coming, they dont have to post something is "under investigation" if they know it is a bug, they only do that for the long running hard to fix bugs, or things they are unsure of. Also dont move the goal post, or be clearer on your statements.
    2) Far enough, your comment was unspecific considering the boss she is there for is "the champion"
    3) The champion is supposed to be have as all other champions, plus their character sheet. If she was supposed to have a quick heavy it would state it as others do. do not rank up based on assumptions.
    5) see number one. You are confusing transparent something else, honestly I dont know. Transparent just means they will let you know what they are doing, not that they will ask your permission, or add an "under investigation" phase for something that does not require an investigation.
    In no way was his comment “unspecific” the champion (she hulk) was updated 5 months ago. Could have just apologised lol
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    OneManArmy said:

    Lormif said:

    cdub71 said:


    1) Please link where this was posted that it was under investigation.
    2) I speaking about the character update not 6.2, the issue with she hulk effects more than just 6.2
    3)it is changing the reason why people ranked her up, something that could be done for months on end that we all assume is the way its supposed to function, this character went through Beta testing I believe so why would anyone assume its not working as intended.
    5) Show me where they were transparent since the release of the update that this was under investigation before you tell me my gripe is unfounded. You obviously know it all so should be able to clearly link when it was first mentioned and what was said about instead of just throwing out blanket statements that dismiss everything I said

    1) They posted the change was coming, they dont have to post something is "under investigation" if they know it is a bug, they only do that for the long running hard to fix bugs, or things they are unsure of. Also dont move the goal post, or be clearer on your statements.
    2) Far enough, your comment was unspecific considering the boss she is there for is "the champion"
    3) The champion is supposed to be have as all other champions, plus their character sheet. If she was supposed to have a quick heavy it would state it as others do. do not rank up based on assumptions.
    5) see number one. You are confusing transparent something else, honestly I dont know. Transparent just means they will let you know what they are doing, not that they will ask your permission, or add an "under investigation" phase for something that does not require an investigation.
    You have absoluttely no idea what you are talking about... go away! The change and message about it came yesterday. You completely ignore everything thats beeing brought up. They go back and forth on what we should trust. They say AA works as intended. Boom.
    Ss descrption was wrong. And she hulks gameplay was wrong! By all means change whatever they like their games. But a champ was changed. A champ people ranked up for this ability alone and by their own words it warrants a rank down ticket.
    There is no logic behind their decisions except "because we say so" cause the reason seems to change as they see fit and we see right thru them
    The change comes on Spet 4, unless we are in a time machine it did not come yesterday. People have been reporting troubles with the manuver for over a week.

    AA you have an argument about (because it was confirmed), domino you have an argument about, SS you have an argument about (because those were int he abilities sheet, she-hulk you have nothing.

    it is is not on the sheet or in the docs you cannot count on it. This is how it is in all games, and generally programming.
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    RagamugginGunner said:

    Lormif said:

    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    1) they posted it on the forum before the change
    2) act 6.2 came out just over 2 months ago, not 5+
    3) this is a bug fix, not a nerf, you should not rely on undocumented abilities of a champ.
    4) as it is not a nerf it does not meet the criteria, especially no more than domino or SS do.
    5) they WERE transparent, your gripe is that they could not go back in time to tell you before they knew.

    SUPER hesitant to respond here but are you seriously suggesting that they only realised it was bug until after last update?
    That is what they stated and there is no evidence to the contrary.
    Wrong.
    Saying "wrong" does not make it wrong.
  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Member Posts: 599 ★★★
    edited August 2019
    Lormif said:

    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    1) they posted it on the forum before the change
    2) act 6.2 came out just over 2 months ago, not 5+
    3) this is a bug fix, not a nerf, you should not rely on undocumented abilities of a champ.
    4) as it is not a nerf it does not meet the criteria, especially no more than domino or SS do.
    5) they WERE transparent, your gripe is that they could not go back in time to tell you before they knew.

    SUPER hesitant to respond here but are you seriously suggesting that they only realised it was bug until after last update?
    That is what they stated and there is no evidence to the contrary.
    Mate if they only figured out she had a quick heavy a month ago after her being in game for how long then what does that say about their competency levels? Just bare with me as I’m working off your assumptions here
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    1) they posted it on the forum before the change
    2) act 6.2 came out just over 2 months ago, not 5+
    3) this is a bug fix, not a nerf, you should not rely on undocumented abilities of a champ.
    4) as it is not a nerf it does not meet the criteria, especially no more than domino or SS do.
    5) they WERE transparent, your gripe is that they could not go back in time to tell you before they knew.

    SUPER hesitant to respond here but are you seriously suggesting that they only realised it was bug until after last update?
    That is what they stated and there is no evidence to the contrary.
    Mate if they only figured out she had a quick heavy a month ago after her being in game for how long then what does that say about their competency levels? Just bare with me as I’m working of your assumptions here
    differnce between quick and so quick that she can change combo into heavy. But even still they are human and therefore not perfect. This is a complex game you cannot expect them to know every bug.
  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Member Posts: 599 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    1) they posted it on the forum before the change
    2) act 6.2 came out just over 2 months ago, not 5+
    3) this is a bug fix, not a nerf, you should not rely on undocumented abilities of a champ.
    4) as it is not a nerf it does not meet the criteria, especially no more than domino or SS do.
    5) they WERE transparent, your gripe is that they could not go back in time to tell you before they knew.

    SUPER hesitant to respond here but are you seriously suggesting that they only realised it was bug until after last update?
    That is what they stated and there is no evidence to the contrary.
    Mate if they only figured out she had a quick heavy a month ago after her being in game for how long then what does that say about their competency levels? Just bare with me as I’m working of your assumptions here
    differnce between quick and so quick that she can change combo into heavy. But even still they are human and therefore not perfect. This is a complex game you cannot expect them to know every bug.
    Even when said champion goes through a month long beta test after they take a further month long look at said champion in an attempt to buff her and make her relevant again?
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Member Posts: 599 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    1) they posted it on the forum before the change
    2) act 6.2 came out just over 2 months ago, not 5+
    3) this is a bug fix, not a nerf, you should not rely on undocumented abilities of a champ.
    4) as it is not a nerf it does not meet the criteria, especially no more than domino or SS do.
    5) they WERE transparent, your gripe is that they could not go back in time to tell you before they knew.

    SUPER hesitant to respond here but are you seriously suggesting that they only realised it was bug until after last update?
    That is what they stated and there is no evidence to the contrary.
    Mate if they only figured out she had a quick heavy a month ago after her being in game for how long then what does that say about their competency levels? Just bare with me as I’m working of your assumptions here
    differnce between quick and so quick that she can change combo into heavy. But even still they are human and therefore not perfect. This is a complex game you cannot expect them to know every bug.

    Also if they are only human isn’t okay for them to realise that their player base is “only human” and it’s understandable that if a champ has been through a beta and is functioning in game for a period where content is being released and threads created about how well said champion is performing that they rank her up on these premises? Or does that only apply to the devs?
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    1) they posted it on the forum before the change
    2) act 6.2 came out just over 2 months ago, not 5+
    3) this is a bug fix, not a nerf, you should not rely on undocumented abilities of a champ.
    4) as it is not a nerf it does not meet the criteria, especially no more than domino or SS do.
    5) they WERE transparent, your gripe is that they could not go back in time to tell you before they knew.

    SUPER hesitant to respond here but are you seriously suggesting that they only realised it was bug until after last update?
    That is what they stated and there is no evidence to the contrary.
    Mate if they only figured out she had a quick heavy a month ago after her being in game for how long then what does that say about their competency levels? Just bare with me as I’m working of your assumptions here
    differnce between quick and so quick that she can change combo into heavy. But even still they are human and therefore not perfect. This is a complex game you cannot expect them to know every bug.
    Even when said champion goes through a month long beta test after they take a further month long look at said champion in an attempt to buff her and make her relevant again?
    you think a month long beta that has nothing to do with chaining heavys will find every single bug?
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    OneManArmy said:

    Lormif said:

    RagamugginGunner said:

    Lormif said:

    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    1) they posted it on the forum before the change
    2) act 6.2 came out just over 2 months ago, not 5+
    3) this is a bug fix, not a nerf, you should not rely on undocumented abilities of a champ.
    4) as it is not a nerf it does not meet the criteria, especially no more than domino or SS do.
    5) they WERE transparent, your gripe is that they could not go back in time to tell you before they knew.

    SUPER hesitant to respond here but are you seriously suggesting that they only realised it was bug until after last update?
    That is what they stated and there is no evidence to the contrary.
    Wrong.
    Saying "wrong" does not make it wrong.
    Why do you argue when you have no clue!!! She was changed yesterday! Just stop arguing for the sake of arguing
    The last updaet was 3 weeks ago.

    The announcement says:

    "Version 24.2 will be available Sept 4th. Here's what to look forward to!"


    The bugs section has intermittent reports of users unable to chain for weeks..

    Please take your own advice, as you are the one lacking the clue.

  • UnknownUnknown
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  • gforcefangforcefan Member Posts: 404 ★★★
    I"m not sure why some people need to defend everything Kabam does, good or bad. They have moderators who can respond. They have programmers who change the code. They make plenty of money from this game. Ultimately it is their game and they can do what they want. We can deal with it or stop playing. We can voice our concerns in the hopes that they will respond to keep us happy - but they don't have to respond.

    But none of the this changes the fact that some things they do and say are hypocritical.

  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Member Posts: 599 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    1) they posted it on the forum before the change
    2) act 6.2 came out just over 2 months ago, not 5+
    3) this is a bug fix, not a nerf, you should not rely on undocumented abilities of a champ.
    4) as it is not a nerf it does not meet the criteria, especially no more than domino or SS do.
    5) they WERE transparent, your gripe is that they could not go back in time to tell you before they knew.

    SUPER hesitant to respond here but are you seriously suggesting that they only realised it was bug until after last update?
    That is what they stated and there is no evidence to the contrary.
    Mate if they only figured out she had a quick heavy a month ago after her being in game for how long then what does that say about their competency levels? Just bare with me as I’m working of your assumptions here
    differnce between quick and so quick that she can change combo into heavy. But even still they are human and therefore not perfect. This is a complex game you cannot expect them to know every bug.
    Even when said champion goes through a month long beta test after they take a further month long look at said champion in an attempt to buff her and make her relevant again?
    you think a month long beta that has nothing to do with chaining heavys will find every single bug?
    Given it’s a month long beta on a specific champion I’d expect a team of highly skilled devs to be able to identify if a champion has mechanics that are related to simple cadence to be picked up, yeah. Or is that too much to expect?
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    1) they posted it on the forum before the change
    2) act 6.2 came out just over 2 months ago, not 5+
    3) this is a bug fix, not a nerf, you should not rely on undocumented abilities of a champ.
    4) as it is not a nerf it does not meet the criteria, especially no more than domino or SS do.
    5) they WERE transparent, your gripe is that they could not go back in time to tell you before they knew.

    SUPER hesitant to respond here but are you seriously suggesting that they only realised it was bug until after last update?
    That is what they stated and there is no evidence to the contrary.
    Mate if they only figured out she had a quick heavy a month ago after her being in game for how long then what does that say about their competency levels? Just bare with me as I’m working of your assumptions here
    differnce between quick and so quick that she can change combo into heavy. But even still they are human and therefore not perfect. This is a complex game you cannot expect them to know every bug.
    Even when said champion goes through a month long beta test after they take a further month long look at said champion in an attempt to buff her and make her relevant again?
    you think a month long beta that has nothing to do with chaining heavys will find every single bug?
    Given it’s a month long beta on a specific champion I’d expect a team of highly skilled devs to be able to identify if a champion has mechanics that are related to simple cadence to be picked up, yeah. Or is that too much to expect?
    perfection is always too much to ask from humans, even highly skilled ones. I assume you have never made mistakes in your job or your studies?
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    OneManArmy said:

    Lormif said:

    OneManArmy said:

    Lormif said:

    RagamugginGunner said:

    Lormif said:

    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    1) they posted it on the forum before the change
    2) act 6.2 came out just over 2 months ago, not 5+
    3) this is a bug fix, not a nerf, you should not rely on undocumented abilities of a champ.
    4) as it is not a nerf it does not meet the criteria, especially no more than domino or SS do.
    5) they WERE transparent, your gripe is that they could not go back in time to tell you before they knew.

    SUPER hesitant to respond here but are you seriously suggesting that they only realised it was bug until after last update?
    That is what they stated and there is no evidence to the contrary.
    Wrong.
    Saying "wrong" does not make it wrong.
    Why do you argue when you have no clue!!! She was changed yesterday! Just stop arguing for the sake of arguing
    The last updaet was 3 weeks ago.

    The announcement says:

    "Version 24.2 will be available Sept 4th. Here's what to look forward to!"


    The bugs section has intermittent reports of users unable to chain for weeks..

    Please take your own advice, as you are the one lacking the clue.

    I use her every day as i have a r5. Do i really need to record it for you to get this??? The change have been made! There was a update yesterday.
    Again individual users have seen the issue, but it is not everyone, read my comment better please. and no, 24.1 was 3 weeks ago and 24.2 will be September 4th. just because you started seeing the issue yesterday does not mean there was a patch yesterday.
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • C4edmonC4edmon Member Posts: 26 ★
    Lormif said:

    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    Rougeknight87 said:

    Lormif said:

    1) they posted it on the forum before the change
    2) act 6.2 came out just over 2 months ago, not 5+
    3) this is a bug fix, not a nerf, you should not rely on undocumented abilities of a champ.
    4) as it is not a nerf it does not meet the criteria, especially no more than domino or SS do.
    5) they WERE transparent, your gripe is that they could not go back in time to tell you before they knew.

    SUPER hesitant to respond here but are you seriously suggesting that they only realised it was bug until after last update?
    That is what they stated and there is no evidence to the contrary.
    Mate if they only figured out she had a quick heavy a month ago after her being in game for how long then what does that say about their competency levels? Just bare with me as I’m working of your assumptions here
    differnce between quick and so quick that she can change combo into heavy. But even still they are human and therefore not perfect. This is a complex game you cannot expect them to know every bug.
    You cannot expect them to know every bug? This „bug“ exists for years now and has been used for years. This „bug“ has been shown by multiple big youtubers, some of them probably even in the CCP. They have acknowledged the fact in these forums that someone used a r2 SH to take down the 6.2 champion. There have been multiple posts on these forums that showed what SH can do using this „bug“. What can we expect them to know then? If they don’t know things like this what are they even here for? It’s literally their job to know things about this game! How is it possible that the playerbase knows something for years without the people who literally made this game knowing it? Even though they said they play the game themselves? Either they are the most incompetent Devs there are or they simply lied to us.
  • UnknownUnknown
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