I'm not siding either way but I will say that what people are forgetting is it's kabam's game, they can change whatever they want whenever they want. You either accept it and move on or stop playing.
Yes they can do whatever they want all we ask for is transparency
The "is it a bug is/not a bug" discussion is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether a player could reasonably ascertain that SheHulks heavy is a bug, and that answer is clearly no.
The most we are given is the character description page, which is often unclear on numerous things (which of doc voodoos hits are energy? Is imiw having a 6 hit combo a bug). As such, we have to assume the character has these abilities and work it out for ourselves.
Some form of compensation should be given out in this situation.
very well put. its important that we understand that this is on their end. this was an issue/experience caused by the lack of clarity/communication. this is why it needs to be rectified. i'm sincerely hoping that the lack of response/update is due to the game team discussion the points mentioned in here.
i just don't see how we can move on any other way.
- The problem I have with this issue is that if there was a 'defect' with the way that she hulk was playing and therefore you are adjusting her play style then technically this scenario is like a product recall and members of the community deserve a refund as this is no one else fault than those who should have tested she hulk properly when she was buffed, this play style was shown during BETA which is when you should have acknowledged this needed changing before people invested in the champ.
This is why BETA testing exists; why wasn't it addressed between the beta and the release?
The combo into heavy was not widespread until 6.2 which is a distance from the beta.
That's not really the issue. We know Kabam can change whatever the want as "not working as intended"
The issue is how they have done it randomly. Whilst clearly knowing about it. And offering no compensation for people who ranked up when this "fix" will clearly change her interaction and usability.
So how much notice do you need when they're fixing their own game? If they just looked at it recently, then there's little they can say. "Just a heads up. Somewhere there may or may not be a problem. We don't know yet and we don't know where, and we don't know what we will do, if anything. If we do something, you've been notified.".....doesn't exaclty sound right. It may have been unexpected, sure. Most things are until they're known. Compensation is a different story. It's up to them if they choose to do anything. I know from past responses that Tickets are for changes to how Champs are intended to perform, and nothing was intended about the glitch, but I can't say they won't and I can't say they will. What I do know is a bunch of people saw others take down one of the hardest Fights in the game with a Champ that's highly accessible, and they ran to Rank her.
Don’t think it’s too hard to forewarn people she wasn’t working as intended after seeing the first batch of CC videos straight after her buff or even commenting on a thread made on the forums of which there were numerous that her heavy chain was in fact a defect. They’ve handled this terribly and they continue to do so. The argument they only recently “discovered” the bug and fixed it promptly is laughable and insulting to anyone with half a brain.
All of that is speculatory. We don't know what they were aware of, when it was acknowledged, how long they were working on it, none of that.
What’s not speculatory is that she has been able to do this since her release. What also is not speculatory is that they buffed her after running a beta where they evaluated her kit again and had time to go over her functionality. It’s also not speculation to say that CC videos were made on her kit and kabam employees had viewed them as far back as after her buffed dropped. Also not speculation to say kabam employees had referenced her usefulness in the champion fight which seems to be people’s main reason to rank her to R5. Think it’s a fair bow to draw that they didn’t only “discover” the big after last update, don’t you?
Her combo into heavy since release is irrelevant, people didn’t use her in any significant way until after her buff and even then it was not until after the release of 6.2 that her combo into heavy was showcased to any significant degree. Even the beta did not highlight her combo into heavy which is what the issue is about, it was 6.2 champion that did this.
People harping on the Summoner Showdown spotlight is quite silly, it’s been out for a couple days which is 1-2 days longer then the change log informing of us this upcoming change to her.
None of this changes that Kabam failed to adequately inform players that She-Hulk’s combo into heavy was unintended.
I’d like to see the CC videos highlighting her combo into heavy around the time of the beta because right now that sounds like a myth.
How is it irrelevant? That’s what the bug is? You could always do it regardless of what content you were using her for. That’s what the bug is, it’s completely relevant. People then adapted that in to certain game styles and realised it suited her kit. Kabam have said that’s what was not the intended feature of her and that’s why they have changed her. Go watch some vids and come back and tell me the earliest time you can see someone chain a heavy or highlight how quick it is
In arguendo, You could always do it sure. It meant nothing because people didn't use it and she didn't have any reason to do it. It couldn’t cheese content in a way the devs would even notice. No significant number of people (or anyone for that matter) talked about it or even cared about it until 6.2 champion.
The earliest video’s highlighting combo into heavy are when 6.2 champion. Your turn. And here is Seatin in the beta unaware of the combo into heavy. https://youtu.be/R9mWN0ahKgQ
See your argument is that they are changing it because of a specific game style that references and is built around fighting the champion only. I agree that it got cheesy but it also highlights the fact that kabam only decided to act on it after they realised people were clearing end game content with it. Everyone knew she had a quick heavy, the bug is her heavy it’s not her game style or what she’s been able to do. That’s at least what we’re being told. There may not have been vids like KT1’s who’s a god where he developed that play style but I know I was using her heavy as quick counter to get into windows that I wouldn’t have otherwise been able to with another champ. Like the thing who has a tiny window https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NlmpDYHsE0c
Not sure if there were earlier videos but I know I originally was drawn to her after her buff for her unstoppable mechanics which come through her heavy. Her heavy inputs were quick like some other mentioned champs in the thread. Not even going to pretend I had any idea of her potential or the bugs potential but as evidence for her heavy being quick and for it being used mid combo the evidence has been around. Not pretending I think this was an easy spot and except I may have exaggerated a little. I’m pi#*ed man. Also you just killed my data dude
Funny enough, this is what Miike said when Nick Fury’s Synergy was fixed. He said how “He’s sorry he couldn’t communicate any sooner” & “This Bug was discovered & fixed very quickly”... & how “I put up a notice as soon as I found out there was a bug & a fix coming”.
But this is obviously not true for this She-Hulk bug. Kabam could’ve communicated sooner, & they didn’t put up a notice as soon as it was discovered. Why did Kabam hide the truth? Explain to me how this isn’t mistreating players...
● Failing to put out information as soon as it’s recognized (there is no way they didn’t know this bug existed sooner with all the vids & commotion on it).
● Failure to realize what is going on within their game, possibly due to lack of testing (as this bug has active for years).
● Ignoring the hundreds of players that demand answers after their very shady & aggravating behavior (they haven’t responded once since Miike’s initial comment).
This is a very terrible way to treat the people who fund you, & the company you work for.
- The problem I have with this issue is that if there was a 'defect' with the way that she hulk was playing and therefore you are adjusting her play style then technically this scenario is like a product recall and members of the community deserve a refund as this is no one else fault than those who should have tested she hulk properly when she was buffed, this play style was shown during BETA which is when you should have acknowledged this needed changing before people invested in the champ.
This is why BETA testing exists; why wasn't it addressed between the beta and the release?
The combo into heavy was not widespread until 6.2 which is a distance from the beta.
That's not really the issue. We know Kabam can change whatever the want as "not working as intended"
The issue is how they have done it randomly. Whilst clearly knowing about it. And offering no compensation for people who ranked up when this "fix" will clearly change her interaction and usability.
So how much notice do you need when they're fixing their own game? If they just looked at it recently, then there's little they can say. "Just a heads up. Somewhere there may or may not be a problem. We don't know yet and we don't know where, and we don't know what we will do, if anything. If we do something, you've been notified.".....doesn't exaclty sound right. It may have been unexpected, sure. Most things are until they're known. Compensation is a different story. It's up to them if they choose to do anything. I know from past responses that Tickets are for changes to how Champs are intended to perform, and nothing was intended about the glitch, but I can't say they won't and I can't say they will. What I do know is a bunch of people saw others take down one of the hardest Fights in the game with a Champ that's highly accessible, and they ran to Rank her.
Don’t think it’s too hard to forewarn people she wasn’t working as intended after seeing the first batch of CC videos straight after her buff or even commenting on a thread made on the forums of which there were numerous that her heavy chain was in fact a defect. They’ve handled this terribly and they continue to do so. The argument they only recently “discovered” the bug and fixed it promptly is laughable and insulting to anyone with half a brain.
All of that is speculatory. We don't know what they were aware of, when it was acknowledged, how long they were working on it, none of that.
What’s not speculatory is that she has been able to do this since her release. What also is not speculatory is that they buffed her after running a beta where they evaluated her kit again and had time to go over her functionality. It’s also not speculation to say that CC videos were made on her kit and kabam employees had viewed them as far back as after her buffed dropped. Also not speculation to say kabam employees had referenced her usefulness in the champion fight which seems to be people’s main reason to rank her to R5. Think it’s a fair bow to draw that they didn’t only “discover” the big after last update, don’t you?
Her combo into heavy since release is irrelevant, people didn’t use her in any significant way until after her buff and even then it was not until after the release of 6.2 that her combo into heavy was showcased to any significant degree. Even the beta did not highlight her combo into heavy which is what the issue is about, it was 6.2 champion that did this.
People harping on the Summoner Showdown spotlight is quite silly, it’s been out for a couple days which is 1-2 days longer then the change log informing of us this upcoming change to her.
None of this changes that Kabam failed to adequately inform players that She-Hulk’s combo into heavy was unintended.
I’d like to see the CC videos highlighting her combo into heavy around the time of the beta because right now that sounds like a myth.
How is it irrelevant? That’s what the bug is? You could always do it regardless of what content you were using her for. That’s what the bug is, it’s completely relevant. People then adapted that in to certain game styles and realised it suited her kit. Kabam have said that’s what was not the intended feature of her and that’s why they have changed her. Go watch some vids and come back and tell me the earliest time you can see someone chain a heavy or highlight how quick it is
In arguendo, You could always do it sure. It meant nothing because people didn't use it and she didn't have any reason to do it. It couldn’t cheese content in a way the devs would even notice. No significant number of people (or anyone for that matter) talked about it or even cared about it until 6.2 champion.
The earliest video’s highlighting combo into heavy are when 6.2 champion. Your turn. And here is Seatin in the beta unaware of the combo into heavy. https://youtu.be/R9mWN0ahKgQ
See your argument is that they are changing it because of a specific game style that references and is built around fighting the champion only. I agree that it got cheesy but it also highlights the fact that kabam only decided to act on it after they realised people were clearing end game content with it. Everyone knew she had a quick heavy, the bug is her heavy it’s not her game style or what she’s been able to do. That’s at least what we’re being told. There may not have been vids like KT1’s who’s a god where he developed that play style but I know I was using her heavy as quick counter to get into windows that I wouldn’t have otherwise been able to with another champ. Like the thing who has a tiny window https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NlmpDYHsE0c
Not sure if there were earlier videos but I know I originally was drawn to her after her buff for her unstoppable mechanics which come through her heavy. Her heavy inputs were quick like some other mentioned champs in the thread. Not even going to pretend I had any idea of her potential or the bugs potential but as evidence for her heavy being quick and for it being used mid combo the evidence has been around. Not pretending I think this was an easy spot and except I may have exaggerated a little. I’m pi#*ed man. Also you just killed my data dude
That’s not my argument, you’re misinterpreting and mischaracterizing my argument. The Champion highlighted the unintended combo into Heavy and caused it to come to light. Kabam had no reasonable way to know about it until people like KT1 etc highlighted it due to 6.2. (BTW KT1 made that video after seeing others do it and post it here on the forums, he’s just more well known so got the credit).
That video you shared is absent the combo into heavy tactic with all of 600 views. Why was it referenced?
- The problem I have with this issue is that if there was a 'defect' with the way that she hulk was playing and therefore you are adjusting her play style then technically this scenario is like a product recall and members of the community deserve a refund as this is no one else fault than those who should have tested she hulk properly when she was buffed, this play style was shown during BETA which is when you should have acknowledged this needed changing before people invested in the champ.
This is why BETA testing exists; why wasn't it addressed between the beta and the release?
The combo into heavy was not widespread until 6.2 which is a distance from the beta.
That's not really the issue. We know Kabam can change whatever the want as "not working as intended"
The issue is how they have done it randomly. Whilst clearly knowing about it. And offering no compensation for people who ranked up when this "fix" will clearly change her interaction and usability.
So how much notice do you need when they're fixing their own game? If they just looked at it recently, then there's little they can say. "Just a heads up. Somewhere there may or may not be a problem. We don't know yet and we don't know where, and we don't know what we will do, if anything. If we do something, you've been notified.".....doesn't exaclty sound right. It may have been unexpected, sure. Most things are until they're known. Compensation is a different story. It's up to them if they choose to do anything. I know from past responses that Tickets are for changes to how Champs are intended to perform, and nothing was intended about the glitch, but I can't say they won't and I can't say they will. What I do know is a bunch of people saw others take down one of the hardest Fights in the game with a Champ that's highly accessible, and they ran to Rank her.
Don’t think it’s too hard to forewarn people she wasn’t working as intended after seeing the first batch of CC videos straight after her buff or even commenting on a thread made on the forums of which there were numerous that her heavy chain was in fact a defect. They’ve handled this terribly and they continue to do so. The argument they only recently “discovered” the bug and fixed it promptly is laughable and insulting to anyone with half a brain.
All of that is speculatory. We don't know what they were aware of, when it was acknowledged, how long they were working on it, none of that.
What’s not speculatory is that she has been able to do this since her release. What also is not speculatory is that they buffed her after running a beta where they evaluated her kit again and had time to go over her functionality. It’s also not speculation to say that CC videos were made on her kit and kabam employees had viewed them as far back as after her buffed dropped. Also not speculation to say kabam employees had referenced her usefulness in the champion fight which seems to be people’s main reason to rank her to R5. Think it’s a fair bow to draw that they didn’t only “discover” the big after last update, don’t you?
Her combo into heavy since release is irrelevant, people didn’t use her in any significant way until after her buff and even then it was not until after the release of 6.2 that her combo into heavy was showcased to any significant degree. Even the beta did not highlight her combo into heavy which is what the issue is about, it was 6.2 champion that did this.
People harping on the Summoner Showdown spotlight is quite silly, it’s been out for a couple days which is 1-2 days longer then the change log informing of us this upcoming change to her.
None of this changes that Kabam failed to adequately inform players that She-Hulk’s combo into heavy was unintended.
I’d like to see the CC videos highlighting her combo into heavy around the time of the beta because right now that sounds like a myth.
How is it irrelevant? That’s what the bug is? You could always do it regardless of what content you were using her for. That’s what the bug is, it’s completely relevant. People then adapted that in to certain game styles and realised it suited her kit. Kabam have said that’s what was not the intended feature of her and that’s why they have changed her. Go watch some vids and come back and tell me the earliest time you can see someone chain a heavy or highlight how quick it is
In arguendo, You could always do it sure. It meant nothing because people didn't use it and she didn't have any reason to do it. It couldn’t cheese content in a way the devs would even notice. No significant number of people (or anyone for that matter) talked about it or even cared about it until 6.2 champion.
The earliest video’s highlighting combo into heavy are when 6.2 champion. Your turn. And here is Seatin in the beta unaware of the combo into heavy. https://youtu.be/R9mWN0ahKgQ
See your argument is that they are changing it because of a specific game style that references and is built around fighting the champion only. I agree that it got cheesy but it also highlights the fact that kabam only decided to act on it after they realised people were clearing end game content with it. Everyone knew she had a quick heavy, the bug is her heavy it’s not her game style or what she’s been able to do. That’s at least what we’re being told. There may not have been vids like KT1’s who’s a god where he developed that play style but I know I was using her heavy as quick counter to get into windows that I wouldn’t have otherwise been able to with another champ. Like the thing who has a tiny window https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NlmpDYHsE0c
Not sure if there were earlier videos but I know I originally was drawn to her after her buff for her unstoppable mechanics which come through her heavy. Her heavy inputs were quick like some other mentioned champs in the thread. Not even going to pretend I had any idea of her potential or the bugs potential but as evidence for her heavy being quick and for it being used mid combo the evidence has been around. Not pretending I think this was an easy spot and except I may have exaggerated a little. I’m pi#*ed man. Also you just killed my data dude
That’s not my argument, you’re misinterpreting and mischaracterizing my argument. The Champion highlighted the unintended combo into Heavy and caused it to come to light. Kabam had no reasonable way to know about it until people like KT1 etc highlighted it due to 6.2. (BTW KT1 made that video after seeing others do it and post it here on the forums, he’s just more well known so got the credit).
That video you shared is absent the combo into heavy tactic with all of 600 views. Why was it referenced?
i agree that the video listed doesn't really point anything out. but 6.2 was just over 2.5 months ago i believe. tons of time for summoners to have ranked up she hulk with no way to confirm is she wasn't working as intended.
once again, due to a lack of communication. that's the issue, and that's why compensation has to be the conclusion here.
- The problem I have with this issue is that if there was a 'defect' with the way that she hulk was playing and therefore you are adjusting her play style then technically this scenario is like a product recall and members of the community deserve a refund as this is no one else fault than those who should have tested she hulk properly when she was buffed, this play style was shown during BETA which is when you should have acknowledged this needed changing before people invested in the champ.
This is why BETA testing exists; why wasn't it addressed between the beta and the release?
The combo into heavy was not widespread until 6.2 which is a distance from the beta.
That's not really the issue. We know Kabam can change whatever the want as "not working as intended"
The issue is how they have done it randomly. Whilst clearly knowing about it. And offering no compensation for people who ranked up when this "fix" will clearly change her interaction and usability.
So how much notice do you need when they're fixing their own game? If they just looked at it recently, then there's little they can say. "Just a heads up. Somewhere there may or may not be a problem. We don't know yet and we don't know where, and we don't know what we will do, if anything. If we do something, you've been notified.".....doesn't exaclty sound right. It may have been unexpected, sure. Most things are until they're known. Compensation is a different story. It's up to them if they choose to do anything. I know from past responses that Tickets are for changes to how Champs are intended to perform, and nothing was intended about the glitch, but I can't say they won't and I can't say they will. What I do know is a bunch of people saw others take down one of the hardest Fights in the game with a Champ that's highly accessible, and they ran to Rank her.
Don’t think it’s too hard to forewarn people she wasn’t working as intended after seeing the first batch of CC videos straight after her buff or even commenting on a thread made on the forums of which there were numerous that her heavy chain was in fact a defect. They’ve handled this terribly and they continue to do so. The argument they only recently “discovered” the bug and fixed it promptly is laughable and insulting to anyone with half a brain.
All of that is speculatory. We don't know what they were aware of, when it was acknowledged, how long they were working on it, none of that.
What’s not speculatory is that she has been able to do this since her release. What also is not speculatory is that they buffed her after running a beta where they evaluated her kit again and had time to go over her functionality. It’s also not speculation to say that CC videos were made on her kit and kabam employees had viewed them as far back as after her buffed dropped. Also not speculation to say kabam employees had referenced her usefulness in the champion fight which seems to be people’s main reason to rank her to R5. Think it’s a fair bow to draw that they didn’t only “discover” the big after last update, don’t you?
Her combo into heavy since release is irrelevant, people didn’t use her in any significant way until after her buff and even then it was not until after the release of 6.2 that her combo into heavy was showcased to any significant degree. Even the beta did not highlight her combo into heavy which is what the issue is about, it was 6.2 champion that did this.
People harping on the Summoner Showdown spotlight is quite silly, it’s been out for a couple days which is 1-2 days longer then the change log informing of us this upcoming change to her.
None of this changes that Kabam failed to adequately inform players that She-Hulk’s combo into heavy was unintended.
I’d like to see the CC videos highlighting her combo into heavy around the time of the beta because right now that sounds like a myth.
How is it irrelevant? That’s what the bug is? You could always do it regardless of what content you were using her for. That’s what the bug is, it’s completely relevant. People then adapted that in to certain game styles and realised it suited her kit. Kabam have said that’s what was not the intended feature of her and that’s why they have changed her. Go watch some vids and come back and tell me the earliest time you can see someone chain a heavy or highlight how quick it is
In arguendo, You could always do it sure. It meant nothing because people didn't use it and she didn't have any reason to do it. It couldn’t cheese content in a way the devs would even notice. No significant number of people (or anyone for that matter) talked about it or even cared about it until 6.2 champion.
The earliest video’s highlighting combo into heavy are when 6.2 champion. Your turn. And here is Seatin in the beta unaware of the combo into heavy. https://youtu.be/R9mWN0ahKgQ
See your argument is that they are changing it because of a specific game style that references and is built around fighting the champion only. I agree that it got cheesy but it also highlights the fact that kabam only decided to act on it after they realised people were clearing end game content with it. Everyone knew she had a quick heavy, the bug is her heavy it’s not her game style or what she’s been able to do. That’s at least what we’re being told. There may not have been vids like KT1’s who’s a god where he developed that play style but I know I was using her heavy as quick counter to get into windows that I wouldn’t have otherwise been able to with another champ. Like the thing who has a tiny window https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NlmpDYHsE0c
Not sure if there were earlier videos but I know I originally was drawn to her after her buff for her unstoppable mechanics which come through her heavy. Her heavy inputs were quick like some other mentioned champs in the thread. Not even going to pretend I had any idea of her potential or the bugs potential but as evidence for her heavy being quick and for it being used mid combo the evidence has been around. Not pretending I think this was an easy spot and except I may have exaggerated a little. I’m pi#*ed man. Also you just killed my data dude
That’s not my argument, you’re misinterpreting and mischaracterizing my argument. The Champion highlighted the unintended combo into Heavy and caused it to come to light. Kabam had no reasonable way to know about it until people like KT1 etc highlighted it due to 6.2. (BTW KT1 made that video after seeing others do it and post it here on the forums, he’s just more well known so got the credit).
That video you shared is absent the combo into heavy tactic with all of 600 views. Why was it referenced?
i agree that the video listed doesn't really point anything out. but 6.2 was just over 2.5 months ago i believe. tons of time for summoners to have ranked up she hulk with no way to confirm is she wasn't working as intended.
once again, due to a lack of communication. that's the issue, and that's why compensation has to be the conclusion here.
Because the bug is how quick her heavy input is, people were using it to intercept with her heavy in places they could not do so with other champions. It doesn’t matter that it wasn’t being chained into combo’s for the game style she’s used for now. It was still present. Only referenced that vid because it’s the earliest I could find and it shows vs thing that it could be used mid combo
I would also like to add that if any member of the community bought rank up resources e.g t5b t2a or t4b catalysts with real money to rank up this character then this should definitely be refunded, this isn't a case to do with wether it was bugged or not its a case to do with money being spent to do something that has not been called a 'bug' or an 'exploit'. I highly recommend any player who has recently ranked she hulk up opens a help ticket to attempt too get the resources you paid for back especially seeing as this is a result of poor testing of a character on kabams part.
- The problem I have with this issue is that if there was a 'defect' with the way that she hulk was playing and therefore you are adjusting her play style then technically this scenario is like a product recall and members of the community deserve a refund as this is no one else fault than those who should have tested she hulk properly when she was buffed, this play style was shown during BETA which is when you should have acknowledged this needed changing before people invested in the champ.
This is why BETA testing exists; why wasn't it addressed between the beta and the release?
The combo into heavy was not widespread until 6.2 which is a distance from the beta.
That's not really the issue. We know Kabam can change whatever the want as "not working as intended"
The issue is how they have done it randomly. Whilst clearly knowing about it. And offering no compensation for people who ranked up when this "fix" will clearly change her interaction and usability.
So how much notice do you need when they're fixing their own game? If they just looked at it recently, then there's little they can say. "Just a heads up. Somewhere there may or may not be a problem. We don't know yet and we don't know where, and we don't know what we will do, if anything. If we do something, you've been notified.".....doesn't exaclty sound right. It may have been unexpected, sure. Most things are until they're known. Compensation is a different story. It's up to them if they choose to do anything. I know from past responses that Tickets are for changes to how Champs are intended to perform, and nothing was intended about the glitch, but I can't say they won't and I can't say they will. What I do know is a bunch of people saw others take down one of the hardest Fights in the game with a Champ that's highly accessible, and they ran to Rank her.
Don’t think it’s too hard to forewarn people she wasn’t working as intended after seeing the first batch of CC videos straight after her buff or even commenting on a thread made on the forums of which there were numerous that her heavy chain was in fact a defect. They’ve handled this terribly and they continue to do so. The argument they only recently “discovered” the bug and fixed it promptly is laughable and insulting to anyone with half a brain.
All of that is speculatory. We don't know what they were aware of, when it was acknowledged, how long they were working on it, none of that.
What’s not speculatory is that she has been able to do this since her release. What also is not speculatory is that they buffed her after running a beta where they evaluated her kit again and had time to go over her functionality. It’s also not speculation to say that CC videos were made on her kit and kabam employees had viewed them as far back as after her buffed dropped. Also not speculation to say kabam employees had referenced her usefulness in the champion fight which seems to be people’s main reason to rank her to R5. Think it’s a fair bow to draw that they didn’t only “discover” the big after last update, don’t you?
Her combo into heavy since release is irrelevant, people didn’t use her in any significant way until after her buff and even then it was not until after the release of 6.2 that her combo into heavy was showcased to any significant degree. Even the beta did not highlight her combo into heavy which is what the issue is about, it was 6.2 champion that did this.
People harping on the Summoner Showdown spotlight is quite silly, it’s been out for a couple days which is 1-2 days longer then the change log informing of us this upcoming change to her.
None of this changes that Kabam failed to adequately inform players that She-Hulk’s combo into heavy was unintended.
I’d like to see the CC videos highlighting her combo into heavy around the time of the beta because right now that sounds like a myth.
How is it irrelevant? That’s what the bug is? You could always do it regardless of what content you were using her for. That’s what the bug is, it’s completely relevant. People then adapted that in to certain game styles and realised it suited her kit. Kabam have said that’s what was not the intended feature of her and that’s why they have changed her. Go watch some vids and come back and tell me the earliest time you can see someone chain a heavy or highlight how quick it is
In arguendo, You could always do it sure. It meant nothing because people didn't use it and she didn't have any reason to do it. It couldn’t cheese content in a way the devs would even notice. No significant number of people (or anyone for that matter) talked about it or even cared about it until 6.2 champion.
The earliest video’s highlighting combo into heavy are when 6.2 champion. Your turn. And here is Seatin in the beta unaware of the combo into heavy. https://youtu.be/R9mWN0ahKgQ
See your argument is that they are changing it because of a specific game style that references and is built around fighting the champion only. I agree that it got cheesy but it also highlights the fact that kabam only decided to act on it after they realised people were clearing end game content with it. Everyone knew she had a quick heavy, the bug is her heavy it’s not her game style or what she’s been able to do. That’s at least what we’re being told. There may not have been vids like KT1’s who’s a god where he developed that play style but I know I was using her heavy as quick counter to get into windows that I wouldn’t have otherwise been able to with another champ. Like the thing who has a tiny window https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NlmpDYHsE0c
Not sure if there were earlier videos but I know I originally was drawn to her after her buff for her unstoppable mechanics which come through her heavy. Her heavy inputs were quick like some other mentioned champs in the thread. Not even going to pretend I had any idea of her potential or the bugs potential but as evidence for her heavy being quick and for it being used mid combo the evidence has been around. Not pretending I think this was an easy spot and except I may have exaggerated a little. I’m pi#*ed man. Also you just killed my data dude
That’s not my argument, you’re misinterpreting and mischaracterizing my argument. The Champion highlighted the unintended combo into Heavy and caused it to come to light. Kabam had no reasonable way to know about it until people like KT1 etc highlighted it due to 6.2. (BTW KT1 made that video after seeing others do it and post it here on the forums, he’s just more well known so got the credit).
That video you shared is absent the combo into heavy tactic with all of 600 views. Why was it referenced?
i agree that the video listed doesn't really point anything out. but 6.2 was just over 2.5 months ago i believe. tons of time for summoners to have ranked up she hulk with no way to confirm is she wasn't working as intended.
once again, due to a lack of communication. that's the issue, and that's why compensation has to be the conclusion here.
What communication do you expect?
well right now we've heard nothing on their end. but since there were posts/discussions about she hulks gameplay and as a counter for end game fights, theres plenty of opportunity for them to chime in and let people know that it wasn't intended.
even without taking that into consideration, there still was no way for a player to confirm that her gameplay was unintended before ranking her up. so it doesn't make sense for us to be punished for doing nothing wrong.
- The problem I have with this issue is that if there was a 'defect' with the way that she hulk was playing and therefore you are adjusting her play style then technically this scenario is like a product recall and members of the community deserve a refund as this is no one else fault than those who should have tested she hulk properly when she was buffed, this play style was shown during BETA which is when you should have acknowledged this needed changing before people invested in the champ.
This is why BETA testing exists; why wasn't it addressed between the beta and the release?
The combo into heavy was not widespread until 6.2 which is a distance from the beta.
That's not really the issue. We know Kabam can change whatever the want as "not working as intended"
The issue is how they have done it randomly. Whilst clearly knowing about it. And offering no compensation for people who ranked up when this "fix" will clearly change her interaction and usability.
So how much notice do you need when they're fixing their own game? If they just looked at it recently, then there's little they can say. "Just a heads up. Somewhere there may or may not be a problem. We don't know yet and we don't know where, and we don't know what we will do, if anything. If we do something, you've been notified.".....doesn't exaclty sound right. It may have been unexpected, sure. Most things are until they're known. Compensation is a different story. It's up to them if they choose to do anything. I know from past responses that Tickets are for changes to how Champs are intended to perform, and nothing was intended about the glitch, but I can't say they won't and I can't say they will. What I do know is a bunch of people saw others take down one of the hardest Fights in the game with a Champ that's highly accessible, and they ran to Rank her.
Don’t think it’s too hard to forewarn people she wasn’t working as intended after seeing the first batch of CC videos straight after her buff or even commenting on a thread made on the forums of which there were numerous that her heavy chain was in fact a defect. They’ve handled this terribly and they continue to do so. The argument they only recently “discovered” the bug and fixed it promptly is laughable and insulting to anyone with half a brain.
All of that is speculatory. We don't know what they were aware of, when it was acknowledged, how long they were working on it, none of that.
What’s not speculatory is that she has been able to do this since her release. What also is not speculatory is that they buffed her after running a beta where they evaluated her kit again and had time to go over her functionality. It’s also not speculation to say that CC videos were made on her kit and kabam employees had viewed them as far back as after her buffed dropped. Also not speculation to say kabam employees had referenced her usefulness in the champion fight which seems to be people’s main reason to rank her to R5. Think it’s a fair bow to draw that they didn’t only “discover” the big after last update, don’t you?
Her combo into heavy since release is irrelevant, people didn’t use her in any significant way until after her buff and even then it was not until after the release of 6.2 that her combo into heavy was showcased to any significant degree. Even the beta did not highlight her combo into heavy which is what the issue is about, it was 6.2 champion that did this.
People harping on the Summoner Showdown spotlight is quite silly, it’s been out for a couple days which is 1-2 days longer then the change log informing of us this upcoming change to her.
None of this changes that Kabam failed to adequately inform players that She-Hulk’s combo into heavy was unintended.
I’d like to see the CC videos highlighting her combo into heavy around the time of the beta because right now that sounds like a myth.
How is it irrelevant? That’s what the bug is? You could always do it regardless of what content you were using her for. That’s what the bug is, it’s completely relevant. People then adapted that in to certain game styles and realised it suited her kit. Kabam have said that’s what was not the intended feature of her and that’s why they have changed her. Go watch some vids and come back and tell me the earliest time you can see someone chain a heavy or highlight how quick it is
In arguendo, You could always do it sure. It meant nothing because people didn't use it and she didn't have any reason to do it. It couldn’t cheese content in a way the devs would even notice. No significant number of people (or anyone for that matter) talked about it or even cared about it until 6.2 champion.
The earliest video’s highlighting combo into heavy are when 6.2 champion. Your turn. And here is Seatin in the beta unaware of the combo into heavy. https://youtu.be/R9mWN0ahKgQ
See your argument is that they are changing it because of a specific game style that references and is built around fighting the champion only. I agree that it got cheesy but it also highlights the fact that kabam only decided to act on it after they realised people were clearing end game content with it. Everyone knew she had a quick heavy, the bug is her heavy it’s not her game style or what she’s been able to do. That’s at least what we’re being told. There may not have been vids like KT1’s who’s a god where he developed that play style but I know I was using her heavy as quick counter to get into windows that I wouldn’t have otherwise been able to with another champ. Like the thing who has a tiny window https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NlmpDYHsE0c
Not sure if there were earlier videos but I know I originally was drawn to her after her buff for her unstoppable mechanics which come through her heavy. Her heavy inputs were quick like some other mentioned champs in the thread. Not even going to pretend I had any idea of her potential or the bugs potential but as evidence for her heavy being quick and for it being used mid combo the evidence has been around. Not pretending I think this was an easy spot and except I may have exaggerated a little. I’m pi#*ed man. Also you just killed my data dude
That’s not my argument, you’re misinterpreting and mischaracterizing my argument. The Champion highlighted the unintended combo into Heavy and caused it to come to light. Kabam had no reasonable way to know about it until people like KT1 etc highlighted it due to 6.2. (BTW KT1 made that video after seeing others do it and post it here on the forums, he’s just more well known so got the credit).
That video you shared is absent the combo into heavy tactic with all of 600 views. Why was it referenced?
i agree that the video listed doesn't really point anything out. but 6.2 was just over 2.5 months ago i believe. tons of time for summoners to have ranked up she hulk with no way to confirm is she wasn't working as intended.
once again, due to a lack of communication. that's the issue, and that's why compensation has to be the conclusion here.
What communication do you expect?
well right now we've heard nothing on their end. but since there were posts/discussions about she hulks gameplay and as a counter for end game fights, theres plenty of opportunity for them to chime in and let people know that it wasn't intended.
even without taking that into consideration, there still was no way for a player to confirm that her gameplay was unintended before ranking her up. so it doesn't make sense for us to be punished for doing nothing wrong.
Except we have heard a lot on their end. They have 6 posts in this thread alone, not to mention the patch notes which started this.. So again, how do you expect bug fixes to be communicated.
We’re sorry that this update came as a surprise. The Ability to chain into a Heavy Attack from a combo is not one that is intended for any Champion, and we have never advertised it as one (except for Wasp, who has a built in short Passive stun to ensure that she is able to do it). No Champion should be able to Combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability, unless explicitly stated in their Ability description.
This was not something that was listed as an ability or an exception for She-Hulk. She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction. This was identified as an issue and resolved.
We apologize for the confusion caused by this interaction.
@Kabam Miike I understand where you are coming from, but why can’t we get a fix for the issues affecting the players? Like Ghost’s intercept being blocked/parried in AW, Corvus’ coldsnap immunity not working on freezerburn nodes, the title notification not going away for summoners sigil title, etc. Why do all the “bug” fixes seem so lopsided?
It's not like we're not trying to fix those bugs as well. Some of them are just easier to investigate/identify/fix than others. In this case, it was fixing the speed in which She-Hulk starts her Heavy attack, which was faster than all other Champions.
Must be extremely inconvenient that all the defenders bugs are so much harder to fix than the attacker bugs.
Here is the issue I have when a champ has something in their description, kabam change their description to fit their need for example domino because she would be too OP and sym supreme stating he wasn’t made that way so why put it in their description and now that the argument is in our favor you’re stating it says no where in she hulk description that she should be able to do that, my question is if that’s your argument why not leave domino how she was suppose to be base on description and do the same for sym supreme but no what u guys did was change their description to fit your needs and not ours and now using that same Line fix she hulk, by the way she hulk been this way since day one only difference is now more people Using her since the buff.
- The problem I have with this issue is that if there was a 'defect' with the way that she hulk was playing and therefore you are adjusting her play style then technically this scenario is like a product recall and members of the community deserve a refund as this is no one else fault than those who should have tested she hulk properly when she was buffed, this play style was shown during BETA which is when you should have acknowledged this needed changing before people invested in the champ.
This is why BETA testing exists; why wasn't it addressed between the beta and the release?
The combo into heavy was not widespread until 6.2 which is a distance from the beta.
That's not really the issue. We know Kabam can change whatever the want as "not working as intended"
The issue is how they have done it randomly. Whilst clearly knowing about it. And offering no compensation for people who ranked up when this "fix" will clearly change her interaction and usability.
So how much notice do you need when they're fixing their own game? If they just looked at it recently, then there's little they can say. "Just a heads up. Somewhere there may or may not be a problem. We don't know yet and we don't know where, and we don't know what we will do, if anything. If we do something, you've been notified.".....doesn't exaclty sound right. It may have been unexpected, sure. Most things are until they're known. Compensation is a different story. It's up to them if they choose to do anything. I know from past responses that Tickets are for changes to how Champs are intended to perform, and nothing was intended about the glitch, but I can't say they won't and I can't say they will. What I do know is a bunch of people saw others take down one of the hardest Fights in the game with a Champ that's highly accessible, and they ran to Rank her.
Don’t think it’s too hard to forewarn people she wasn’t working as intended after seeing the first batch of CC videos straight after her buff or even commenting on a thread made on the forums of which there were numerous that her heavy chain was in fact a defect. They’ve handled this terribly and they continue to do so. The argument they only recently “discovered” the bug and fixed it promptly is laughable and insulting to anyone with half a brain.
All of that is speculatory. We don't know what they were aware of, when it was acknowledged, how long they were working on it, none of that.
What’s not speculatory is that she has been able to do this since her release. What also is not speculatory is that they buffed her after running a beta where they evaluated her kit again and had time to go over her functionality. It’s also not speculation to say that CC videos were made on her kit and kabam employees had viewed them as far back as after her buffed dropped. Also not speculation to say kabam employees had referenced her usefulness in the champion fight which seems to be people’s main reason to rank her to R5. Think it’s a fair bow to draw that they didn’t only “discover” the big after last update, don’t you?
Her combo into heavy since release is irrelevant, people didn’t use her in any significant way until after her buff and even then it was not until after the release of 6.2 that her combo into heavy was showcased to any significant degree. Even the beta did not highlight her combo into heavy which is what the issue is about, it was 6.2 champion that did this.
People harping on the Summoner Showdown spotlight is quite silly, it’s been out for a couple days which is 1-2 days longer then the change log informing of us this upcoming change to her.
None of this changes that Kabam failed to adequately inform players that She-Hulk’s combo into heavy was unintended.
I’d like to see the CC videos highlighting her combo into heavy around the time of the beta because right now that sounds like a myth.
How is it irrelevant? That’s what the bug is? You could always do it regardless of what content you were using her for. That’s what the bug is, it’s completely relevant. People then adapted that in to certain game styles and realised it suited her kit. Kabam have said that’s what was not the intended feature of her and that’s why they have changed her. Go watch some vids and come back and tell me the earliest time you can see someone chain a heavy or highlight how quick it is
In arguendo, You could always do it sure. It meant nothing because people didn't use it and she didn't have any reason to do it. It couldn’t cheese content in a way the devs would even notice. No significant number of people (or anyone for that matter) talked about it or even cared about it until 6.2 champion.
The earliest video’s highlighting combo into heavy are when 6.2 champion. Your turn. And here is Seatin in the beta unaware of the combo into heavy. https://youtu.be/R9mWN0ahKgQ
See your argument is that they are changing it because of a specific game style that references and is built around fighting the champion only. I agree that it got cheesy but it also highlights the fact that kabam only decided to act on it after they realised people were clearing end game content with it. Everyone knew she had a quick heavy, the bug is her heavy it’s not her game style or what she’s been able to do. That’s at least what we’re being told. There may not have been vids like KT1’s who’s a god where he developed that play style but I know I was using her heavy as quick counter to get into windows that I wouldn’t have otherwise been able to with another champ. Like the thing who has a tiny window https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NlmpDYHsE0c
Not sure if there were earlier videos but I know I originally was drawn to her after her buff for her unstoppable mechanics which come through her heavy. Her heavy inputs were quick like some other mentioned champs in the thread. Not even going to pretend I had any idea of her potential or the bugs potential but as evidence for her heavy being quick and for it being used mid combo the evidence has been around. Not pretending I think this was an easy spot and except I may have exaggerated a little. I’m pi#*ed man. Also you just killed my data dude
That’s not my argument, you’re misinterpreting and mischaracterizing my argument. The Champion highlighted the unintended combo into Heavy and caused it to come to light. Kabam had no reasonable way to know about it until people like KT1 etc highlighted it due to 6.2. (BTW KT1 made that video after seeing others do it and post it here on the forums, he’s just more well known so got the credit).
That video you shared is absent the combo into heavy tactic with all of 600 views. Why was it referenced?
i agree that the video listed doesn't really point anything out. but 6.2 was just over 2.5 months ago i believe. tons of time for summoners to have ranked up she hulk with no way to confirm is she wasn't working as intended.
once again, due to a lack of communication. that's the issue, and that's why compensation has to be the conclusion here.
What communication do you expect?
well right now we've heard nothing on their end. but since there were posts/discussions about she hulks gameplay and as a counter for end game fights, theres plenty of opportunity for them to chime in and let people know that it wasn't intended.
even without taking that into consideration, there still was no way for a player to confirm that her gameplay was unintended before ranking her up. so it doesn't make sense for us to be punished for doing nothing wrong.
Except we have heard a lot on their end. They have 6 posts in this thread alone, not to mention the patch notes which started this.. So again, how do you expect bug fixes to be communicated.
personally i'm looking for the following things to be discussed or responded to by them: 1. Content Creators (some official CCP members) highlighted She Hulk as a Rank 5 worthy champion 2. Nothing in the forums had indicated that She Hulk was not working as intended 3. The game team knew that She Hulks current gameplay existed, and didn't warn/indicate summoners otherwise
so let's say that number 3 isn't a factor. for sure, maybe they identified her bug last week (which i don't believe is true) that still leads to the question of why didn't they say anything then? even if that prevented 1 player from using t5b to r5 she hulk, isn't that justifiable? how about everyone who got their materials form variant 3 and used it on she hulk?
but summoners had number 1 and 2 in mind as they ranked up she hulk. why is there no ability to recoup resources via compensation? we had no way to confirm that there was a bug. but now that there is...we're left punished by not being able to rank down and move on.
Never looking out for the community that feeds kabam. We get you need to make money but at what cost? Keep making changes like this to the game and you will loose more and more endgame players. Nefing players to help you make more money is just wrong. Offering nothing to people who have spent money, units and resources to rank she hulk that you beta tested and put out is wrong. Im no longer spending money on this game.
you learned nothing from drax’s and AA’s “bug fix”/nerf. If it was a bug, why you didn’t say anything sooner? All the community knew that how she works but you expect us to believe you’ve just found out?
Actually, Kabam did learn something, players will, after yelling for a while, go back to playing....
- The problem I have with this issue is that if there was a 'defect' with the way that she hulk was playing and therefore you are adjusting her play style then technically this scenario is like a product recall and members of the community deserve a refund as this is no one else fault than those who should have tested she hulk properly when she was buffed, this play style was shown during BETA which is when you should have acknowledged this needed changing before people invested in the champ.
This is why BETA testing exists; why wasn't it addressed between the beta and the release?
The combo into heavy was not widespread until 6.2 which is a distance from the beta.
That's not really the issue. We know Kabam can change whatever the want as "not working as intended"
The issue is how they have done it randomly. Whilst clearly knowing about it. And offering no compensation for people who ranked up when this "fix" will clearly change her interaction and usability.
So how much notice do you need when they're fixing their own game? If they just looked at it recently, then there's little they can say. "Just a heads up. Somewhere there may or may not be a problem. We don't know yet and we don't know where, and we don't know what we will do, if anything. If we do something, you've been notified.".....doesn't exaclty sound right. It may have been unexpected, sure. Most things are until they're known. Compensation is a different story. It's up to them if they choose to do anything. I know from past responses that Tickets are for changes to how Champs are intended to perform, and nothing was intended about the glitch, but I can't say they won't and I can't say they will. What I do know is a bunch of people saw others take down one of the hardest Fights in the game with a Champ that's highly accessible, and they ran to Rank her.
Don’t think it’s too hard to forewarn people she wasn’t working as intended after seeing the first batch of CC videos straight after her buff or even commenting on a thread made on the forums of which there were numerous that her heavy chain was in fact a defect. They’ve handled this terribly and they continue to do so. The argument they only recently “discovered” the bug and fixed it promptly is laughable and insulting to anyone with half a brain.
All of that is speculatory. We don't know what they were aware of, when it was acknowledged, how long they were working on it, none of that.
What’s not speculatory is that she has been able to do this since her release. What also is not speculatory is that they buffed her after running a beta where they evaluated her kit again and had time to go over her functionality. It’s also not speculation to say that CC videos were made on her kit and kabam employees had viewed them as far back as after her buffed dropped. Also not speculation to say kabam employees had referenced her usefulness in the champion fight which seems to be people’s main reason to rank her to R5. Think it’s a fair bow to draw that they didn’t only “discover” the big after last update, don’t you?
Her combo into heavy since release is irrelevant, people didn’t use her in any significant way until after her buff and even then it was not until after the release of 6.2 that her combo into heavy was showcased to any significant degree. Even the beta did not highlight her combo into heavy which is what the issue is about, it was 6.2 champion that did this.
People harping on the Summoner Showdown spotlight is quite silly, it’s been out for a couple days which is 1-2 days longer then the change log informing of us this upcoming change to her.
None of this changes that Kabam failed to adequately inform players that She-Hulk’s combo into heavy was unintended.
I’d like to see the CC videos highlighting her combo into heavy around the time of the beta because right now that sounds like a myth.
How is it irrelevant? That’s what the bug is? You could always do it regardless of what content you were using her for. That’s what the bug is, it’s completely relevant. People then adapted that in to certain game styles and realised it suited her kit. Kabam have said that’s what was not the intended feature of her and that’s why they have changed her. Go watch some vids and come back and tell me the earliest time you can see someone chain a heavy or highlight how quick it is
In arguendo, You could always do it sure. It meant nothing because people didn't use it and she didn't have any reason to do it. It couldn’t cheese content in a way the devs would even notice. No significant number of people (or anyone for that matter) talked about it or even cared about it until 6.2 champion.
The earliest video’s highlighting combo into heavy are when 6.2 champion. Your turn. And here is Seatin in the beta unaware of the combo into heavy. https://youtu.be/R9mWN0ahKgQ
See your argument is that they are changing it because of a specific game style that references and is built around fighting the champion only. I agree that it got cheesy but it also highlights the fact that kabam only decided to act on it after they realised people were clearing end game content with it. Everyone knew she had a quick heavy, the bug is her heavy it’s not her game style or what she’s been able to do. That’s at least what we’re being told. There may not have been vids like KT1’s who’s a god where he developed that play style but I know I was using her heavy as quick counter to get into windows that I wouldn’t have otherwise been able to with another champ. Like the thing who has a tiny window https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NlmpDYHsE0c
Not sure if there were earlier videos but I know I originally was drawn to her after her buff for her unstoppable mechanics which come through her heavy. Her heavy inputs were quick like some other mentioned champs in the thread. Not even going to pretend I had any idea of her potential or the bugs potential but as evidence for her heavy being quick and for it being used mid combo the evidence has been around. Not pretending I think this was an easy spot and except I may have exaggerated a little. I’m pi#*ed man. Also you just killed my data dude
That’s not my argument, you’re misinterpreting and mischaracterizing my argument. The Champion highlighted the unintended combo into Heavy and caused it to come to light. Kabam had no reasonable way to know about it until people like KT1 etc highlighted it due to 6.2. (BTW KT1 made that video after seeing others do it and post it here on the forums, he’s just more well known so got the credit).
That video you shared is absent the combo into heavy tactic with all of 600 views. Why was it referenced?
i agree that the video listed doesn't really point anything out. but 6.2 was just over 2.5 months ago i believe. tons of time for summoners to have ranked up she hulk with no way to confirm is she wasn't working as intended.
once again, due to a lack of communication. that's the issue, and that's why compensation has to be the conclusion here.
What communication do you expect?
well right now we've heard nothing on their end. but since there were posts/discussions about she hulks gameplay and as a counter for end game fights, theres plenty of opportunity for them to chime in and let people know that it wasn't intended.
even without taking that into consideration, there still was no way for a player to confirm that her gameplay was unintended before ranking her up. so it doesn't make sense for us to be punished for doing nothing wrong.
Except we have heard a lot on their end. They have 6 posts in this thread alone, not to mention the patch notes which started this.. So again, how do you expect bug fixes to be communicated.
personally i'm looking for the following things to be discussed or responded to by them: 1. Content Creators (some official CCP members) highlighted She Hulk as a Rank 5 worthy champion 2. Nothing in the forums had indicated that She Hulk was not working as intended 3. The game team knew that She Hulks current gameplay existed, and didn't warn/indicate summoners otherwise
so let's say that number 3 isn't a factor. for sure, maybe they identified her bug last week (which i don't believe is true) that still leads to the question of why didn't they say anything then? even if that prevented 1 player from using t5b to r5 she hulk, isn't that justifiable? how about everyone who got their materials form variant 3 and used it on she hulk?
but summoners had number 1 and 2 in mind as they ranked up she hulk. why is there no ability to recoup resources via compensation? we had no way to confirm that there was a bug. but now that there is...we're left punished by not being able to rank down and move on.
But those are questions you have, not talking about what you specifically expect when communicating bugs.. And some of those make no sense. Like number 1, this does not mean the CCP members will somehow not consider her r5 worthy anymore 2. makes no sense because you dont know how long they knew she was bugged and number 3 has already been pointed out that game play of this specific use is relatively new...
so again, in general, when bug fixes happen, how do you expect them to communicate?
- The problem I have with this issue is that if there was a 'defect' with the way that she hulk was playing and therefore you are adjusting her play style then technically this scenario is like a product recall and members of the community deserve a refund as this is no one else fault than those who should have tested she hulk properly when she was buffed, this play style was shown during BETA which is when you should have acknowledged this needed changing before people invested in the champ.
This is why BETA testing exists; why wasn't it addressed between the beta and the release?
The combo into heavy was not widespread until 6.2 which is a distance from the beta.
That's not really the issue. We know Kabam can change whatever the want as "not working as intended"
The issue is how they have done it randomly. Whilst clearly knowing about it. And offering no compensation for people who ranked up when this "fix" will clearly change her interaction and usability.
So how much notice do you need when they're fixing their own game? If they just looked at it recently, then there's little they can say. "Just a heads up. Somewhere there may or may not be a problem. We don't know yet and we don't know where, and we don't know what we will do, if anything. If we do something, you've been notified.".....doesn't exaclty sound right. It may have been unexpected, sure. Most things are until they're known. Compensation is a different story. It's up to them if they choose to do anything. I know from past responses that Tickets are for changes to how Champs are intended to perform, and nothing was intended about the glitch, but I can't say they won't and I can't say they will. What I do know is a bunch of people saw others take down one of the hardest Fights in the game with a Champ that's highly accessible, and they ran to Rank her.
Don’t think it’s too hard to forewarn people she wasn’t working as intended after seeing the first batch of CC videos straight after her buff or even commenting on a thread made on the forums of which there were numerous that her heavy chain was in fact a defect. They’ve handled this terribly and they continue to do so. The argument they only recently “discovered” the bug and fixed it promptly is laughable and insulting to anyone with half a brain.
All of that is speculatory. We don't know what they were aware of, when it was acknowledged, how long they were working on it, none of that.
What’s not speculatory is that she has been able to do this since her release. What also is not speculatory is that they buffed her after running a beta where they evaluated her kit again and had time to go over her functionality. It’s also not speculation to say that CC videos were made on her kit and kabam employees had viewed them as far back as after her buffed dropped. Also not speculation to say kabam employees had referenced her usefulness in the champion fight which seems to be people’s main reason to rank her to R5. Think it’s a fair bow to draw that they didn’t only “discover” the big after last update, don’t you?
Her combo into heavy since release is irrelevant, people didn’t use her in any significant way until after her buff and even then it was not until after the release of 6.2 that her combo into heavy was showcased to any significant degree. Even the beta did not highlight her combo into heavy which is what the issue is about, it was 6.2 champion that did this.
People harping on the Summoner Showdown spotlight is quite silly, it’s been out for a couple days which is 1-2 days longer then the change log informing of us this upcoming change to her.
None of this changes that Kabam failed to adequately inform players that She-Hulk’s combo into heavy was unintended.
I’d like to see the CC videos highlighting her combo into heavy around the time of the beta because right now that sounds like a myth.
How is it irrelevant? That’s what the bug is? You could always do it regardless of what content you were using her for. That’s what the bug is, it’s completely relevant. People then adapted that in to certain game styles and realised it suited her kit. Kabam have said that’s what was not the intended feature of her and that’s why they have changed her. Go watch some vids and come back and tell me the earliest time you can see someone chain a heavy or highlight how quick it is
In arguendo, You could always do it sure. It meant nothing because people didn't use it and she didn't have any reason to do it. It couldn’t cheese content in a way the devs would even notice. No significant number of people (or anyone for that matter) talked about it or even cared about it until 6.2 champion.
The earliest video’s highlighting combo into heavy are when 6.2 champion. Your turn. And here is Seatin in the beta unaware of the combo into heavy. https://youtu.be/R9mWN0ahKgQ
See your argument is that they are changing it because of a specific game style that references and is built around fighting the champion only. I agree that it got cheesy but it also highlights the fact that kabam only decided to act on it after they realised people were clearing end game content with it. Everyone knew she had a quick heavy, the bug is her heavy it’s not her game style or what she’s been able to do. That’s at least what we’re being told. There may not have been vids like KT1’s who’s a god where he developed that play style but I know I was using her heavy as quick counter to get into windows that I wouldn’t have otherwise been able to with another champ. Like the thing who has a tiny window https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NlmpDYHsE0c
Not sure if there were earlier videos but I know I originally was drawn to her after her buff for her unstoppable mechanics which come through her heavy. Her heavy inputs were quick like some other mentioned champs in the thread. Not even going to pretend I had any idea of her potential or the bugs potential but as evidence for her heavy being quick and for it being used mid combo the evidence has been around. Not pretending I think this was an easy spot and except I may have exaggerated a little. I’m pi#*ed man. Also you just killed my data dude
That’s not my argument, you’re misinterpreting and mischaracterizing my argument. The Champion highlighted the unintended combo into Heavy and caused it to come to light. Kabam had no reasonable way to know about it until people like KT1 etc highlighted it due to 6.2. (BTW KT1 made that video after seeing others do it and post it here on the forums, he’s just more well known so got the credit).
That video you shared is absent the combo into heavy tactic with all of 600 views. Why was it referenced?
i agree that the video listed doesn't really point anything out. but 6.2 was just over 2.5 months ago i believe. tons of time for summoners to have ranked up she hulk with no way to confirm is she wasn't working as intended.
once again, due to a lack of communication. that's the issue, and that's why compensation has to be the conclusion here.
What communication do you expect?
clearly you're being combative on here which you claimed in a previous conversation with me you didn't do, but let me ask you this - do you really think they didn't have a chance to let people know in some reasonable time period in the last 2+ months? Instead they dropped this news in the changelog (on the forum where people had to dig to find it, not in a post on the main general for discussion) a few days before the update goes out. Do you think THAT is good communication?
Again, others have said this but for this point ill repeat it: They knew people loved it in the beta feedback, they saw video after video for months of people using this tactic and said nothing, and at SOME POINT before this week at least they realized they needed to change it, then implemented the change and added it to the update log. Unless they did it THIS WEEK and truly didn't have time to let people know, which is silly on it's face to even think, then the communication they promised would be better never happened. Why are you arguing this so much dude? You know, sometimes you can just let others take the ball and be upset. Maybe some self reflection would do you good, cuz you're starting to just flat out not make sense.
This is days before the update. No warning prior. No dedicated announcement when they realized it. Slipped into the changelog. They had to merge threads because it started to take over the forum when released. They released variant 3 how long ago with rewards that were able to be used on this champion, and those like myself who got a science gem used it on her. Just please stop being so disingenuous for no reason, you're all over this thread arguing with people once again and being combative to try and derail it. Neither helpful or friendly in your answers either.
Don’t think it’s too hard to forewarn people she wasn’t working as intended after seeing the first batch of CC videos str All of that is speculatory. We don't know what they were aware of, when it was acknowledged, how long they were working on it, none of that.
I need to agree, we never know 100 % percent if something was intended or not. But the fact, that champions such as OML and champions with the uppercut heavy (Iron Man, LC, Hulk) have been able to do the same thing since all of them were released is pretty strange.
Never looking out for the community that feeds kabam. We get you need to make money but at what cost? Keep making changes like this to the game and you will loose more and more endgame players. Nefing players to help you make more money is just wrong. Offering nothing to people who have spent money, units and resources to rank she hulk that you beta tested and put out is wrong. Im no longer spending money on this game.
Counters to champs happen all the time, that's part of the game. What doesn't happen all the time is altering how a champ has to be played and/or taking away utility.
As I've stated a few times in this discussion I'm not angry about the action but rather the lack of communication. They can say all they want that this was unknown until just recently but they at least knew about this when they did Royal's content creator spotlight.
The communication I would have expected is a sticky at the top of the forum (like when the game goes down or there will be maintenance) stating certain champ(s) will be tweaked, having something in the bugs section called out in general or providing us their list of upcoming tweaks.
We’re sorry that this update came as a surprise. The Ability to chain into a Heavy Attack from a combo is not one that is intended for any Champion, and we have never advertised it as one (except for Wasp, who has a built in short Passive stun to ensure that she is able to do it). No Champion should be able to Combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability, unless explicitly stated in their Ability description.
This was not something that was listed as an ability or an exception for She-Hulk. She was not built, tuned, or tested, around this unintended interaction. This was identified as an issue and resolved.
We apologize for the confusion caused by this interaction.
Honestly, people should get more than an apology here, Miike.
This was a specific mechanic known throughout the community for a while and a significant attribute of the champ. You guys need to be more attuned to what is happening in game and make “fixes” like this out of the gate, not months later.
I dodged this bullet and used mine at R3 for 6.2 content. But anyone who used their hard-to-get materials on her should get them back and then some.
Dr. Zola
This was not a mechanic of this Champion, and was not mentioned as one. All Champions have the same speed and cadence to their Attacks, and no Champion should be able to combo into a Heavy attack with 100% reliability.
If everyone should have the same mechanic unless it mentioned otherwise in the champion’s ability how come there are champions that their recovery time after using special is way faster than others and you can’t counter them after evade? (Some champs you can punish after block their specials, some only after evade, some can’t be punished at all)
Until now the speed that every champion has after heavy, evade, special, regular hits was different and we (or at least I) was sure it was one of the “hidden” ability of each champs. If this is not true, please fix all the champions that their special attack is not “punishable”.
- The problem I have with this issue is that if there was a 'defect' with the way that she hulk was playing and therefore you are adjusting her play style then technically this scenario is like a product recall and members of the community deserve a refund as this is no one else fault than those who should have tested she hulk properly when she was buffed, this play style was shown during BETA which is when you should have acknowledged this needed changing before people invested in the champ.
This is why BETA testing exists; why wasn't it addressed between the beta and the release?
The combo into heavy was not widespread until 6.2 which is a distance from the beta.
That's not really the issue. We know Kabam can change whatever the want as "not working as intended"
The issue is how they have done it randomly. Whilst clearly knowing about it. And offering no compensation for people who ranked up when this "fix" will clearly change her interaction and usability.
So how much notice do you need when they're fixing their own game? If they just looked at it recently, then there's little they can say. "Just a heads up. Somewhere there may or may not be a problem. We don't know yet and we don't know where, and we don't know what we will do, if anything. If we do something, you've been notified.".....doesn't exaclty sound right. It may have been unexpected, sure. Most things are until they're known. Compensation is a different story. It's up to them if they choose to do anything. I know from past responses that Tickets are for changes to how Champs are intended to perform, and nothing was intended about the glitch, but I can't say they won't and I can't say they will. What I do know is a bunch of people saw others take down one of the hardest Fights in the game with a Champ that's highly accessible, and they ran to Rank her.
Don’t think it’s too hard to forewarn people she wasn’t working as intended after seeing the first batch of CC videos straight after her buff or even commenting on a thread made on the forums of which there were numerous that her heavy chain was in fact a defect. They’ve handled this terribly and they continue to do so. The argument they only recently “discovered” the bug and fixed it promptly is laughable and insulting to anyone with half a brain.
All of that is speculatory. We don't know what they were aware of, when it was acknowledged, how long they were working on it, none of that.
What’s not speculatory is that she has been able to do this since her release. What also is not speculatory is that they buffed her after running a beta where they evaluated her kit again and had time to go over her functionality. It’s also not speculation to say that CC videos were made on her kit and kabam employees had viewed them as far back as after her buffed dropped. Also not speculation to say kabam employees had referenced her usefulness in the champion fight which seems to be people’s main reason to rank her to R5. Think it’s a fair bow to draw that they didn’t only “discover” the big after last update, don’t you?
Her combo into heavy since release is irrelevant, people didn’t use her in any significant way until after her buff and even then it was not until after the release of 6.2 that her combo into heavy was showcased to any significant degree. Even the beta did not highlight her combo into heavy which is what the issue is about, it was 6.2 champion that did this.
People harping on the Summoner Showdown spotlight is quite silly, it’s been out for a couple days which is 1-2 days longer then the change log informing of us this upcoming change to her.
None of this changes that Kabam failed to adequately inform players that She-Hulk’s combo into heavy was unintended.
I’d like to see the CC videos highlighting her combo into heavy around the time of the beta because right now that sounds like a myth.
How is it irrelevant? That’s what the bug is? You could always do it regardless of what content you were using her for. That’s what the bug is, it’s completely relevant. People then adapted that in to certain game styles and realised it suited her kit. Kabam have said that’s what was not the intended feature of her and that’s why they have changed her. Go watch some vids and come back and tell me the earliest time you can see someone chain a heavy or highlight how quick it is
In arguendo, You could always do it sure. It meant nothing because people didn't use it and she didn't have any reason to do it. It couldn’t cheese content in a way the devs would even notice. No significant number of people (or anyone for that matter) talked about it or even cared about it until 6.2 champion.
The earliest video’s highlighting combo into heavy are when 6.2 champion. Your turn. And here is Seatin in the beta unaware of the combo into heavy. https://youtu.be/R9mWN0ahKgQ
See your argument is that they are changing it because of a specific game style that references and is built around fighting the champion only. I agree that it got cheesy but it also highlights the fact that kabam only decided to act on it after they realised people were clearing end game content with it. Everyone knew she had a quick heavy, the bug is her heavy it’s not her game style or what she’s been able to do. That’s at least what we’re being told. There may not have been vids like KT1’s who’s a god where he developed that play style but I know I was using her heavy as quick counter to get into windows that I wouldn’t have otherwise been able to with another champ. Like the thing who has a tiny window https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NlmpDYHsE0c
Not sure if there were earlier videos but I know I originally was drawn to her after her buff for her unstoppable mechanics which come through her heavy. Her heavy inputs were quick like some other mentioned champs in the thread. Not even going to pretend I had any idea of her potential or the bugs potential but as evidence for her heavy being quick and for it being used mid combo the evidence has been around. Not pretending I think this was an easy spot and except I may have exaggerated a little. I’m pi#*ed man. Also you just killed my data dude
That’s not my argument, you’re misinterpreting and mischaracterizing my argument. The Champion highlighted the unintended combo into Heavy and caused it to come to light. Kabam had no reasonable way to know about it until people like KT1 etc highlighted it due to 6.2. (BTW KT1 made that video after seeing others do it and post it here on the forums, he’s just more well known so got the credit).
That video you shared is absent the combo into heavy tactic with all of 600 views. Why was it referenced?
i agree that the video listed doesn't really point anything out. but 6.2 was just over 2.5 months ago i believe. tons of time for summoners to have ranked up she hulk with no way to confirm is she wasn't working as intended.
once again, due to a lack of communication. that's the issue, and that's why compensation has to be the conclusion here.
What communication do you expect?
clearly you're being combative on here which you claimed in a previous conversation with me you didn't do, but let me ask you this - do you really think they didn't have a chance to let people know in some reasonable time period in the last 2+ months? Instead they dropped this news in the changelog (on the forum where people had to dig to find it, not in a post on the main general for discussion) a few days before the update goes out. Do you think THAT is good communication?
Again, others have said this but for this point ill repeat it: They knew people loved it in the beta feedback, they saw video after video for months of people using this tactic and said nothing, and at SOME POINT before this week at least they realized they needed to change it, then implemented the change and added it to the update log. Unless they did it THIS WEEK and truly didn't have time to let people know, which is silly on it's face to even think, then the communication they promised would be better never happened. Why are you arguing this so much dude? You know, sometimes you can just let others take the ball and be upset. Maybe some self reflection would do you good, cuz you're starting to just flat out not make sense.
This is days before the update. No warning prior. No dedicated announcement when they realized it. Slipped into the changelog. They had to merge threads because it started to take over the forum when released. They released variant 3 how long ago with rewards that were able to be used on this champion, and those like myself who got a science gem used it on her. Just please stop being so disingenuous for no reason, you're all over this thread arguing with people once again and being combative to try and derail it. Neither helpful or friendly in your answers either.
To be fair, I think Lormif's done a good job of keeping the discussion going, hes brought up fair points. I still dont agree with his take here but were allowed to disagree. regardless of whats being debated, it comes down to: -summoners ranked she hulk up based on gameplay they saw. -there was no way to confirm that she was bugged or not (even if kabam was unaware!) -shes now being changed to be weaker than before.
all 3 of these are true and are factors right now. so why are we left to be burned by our rankup? would it not be the fairest and cleanest way to move on by compensating us for the resources used?
I understand giving constructive feedback is the best way for us to put forward our concerns about the game but it's only helpful when they actually want to listen to us. Seems like money is the only thing that persuades them. If we keep complaining and giving them money at the same time, they are only gonna do things that help them.
I'm just not gonna spend any money on this game anymore. Pretty sure if the frequent spenders resist even month and not spend anything on the game, kabam will actually pay attention to their consumers.
Kabam only listens to our wallets and if our wallets say no to bs then maybe that will send the message across.
Very hard if there are such people as CoWhale (and MANY MORE people that probably spend WAY MORE money than him) out there.
Comments
i just don't see how we can move on any other way.
There may not have been vids like KT1’s who’s a god where he developed that play style but I know I was using her heavy as quick counter to get into windows that I wouldn’t have otherwise been able to with another champ. Like the thing who has a tiny window
Not sure if there were earlier videos but I know I originally was drawn to her after her buff for her unstoppable mechanics which come through her heavy. Her heavy inputs were quick like some other mentioned champs in the thread. Not even going to pretend I had any idea of her potential or the bugs potential but as evidence for her heavy being quick and for it being used mid combo the evidence has been around. Not pretending I think this was an easy spot and except I may have exaggerated a little.
I’m pi#*ed man. Also you just killed my data dude
That video you shared is absent the combo into heavy tactic with all of 600 views. Why was it referenced?
Fix Symbiote Supreme allready, instead of fixing champs that aint broke.
once again, due to a lack of communication. that's the issue, and that's why compensation has to be the conclusion here.
but since there were posts/discussions about she hulks gameplay and as a counter for end game fights, theres plenty of opportunity for them to chime in and let people know that it wasn't intended.
even without taking that into consideration, there still was no way for a player to confirm that her gameplay was unintended before ranking her up. so it doesn't make sense for us to be punished for doing nothing wrong.
Line fix she hulk, by the way she hulk been this way since day one only difference is now more people
Using her since the buff.
1. Content Creators (some official CCP members) highlighted She Hulk as a Rank 5 worthy champion
2. Nothing in the forums had indicated that She Hulk was not working as intended
3. The game team knew that She Hulks current gameplay existed, and didn't warn/indicate summoners otherwise
so let's say that number 3 isn't a factor. for sure, maybe they identified her bug last week (which i don't believe is true) that still leads to the question of why didn't they say anything then? even if that prevented 1 player from using t5b to r5 she hulk, isn't that justifiable? how about everyone who got their materials form variant 3 and used it on she hulk?
but summoners had number 1 and 2 in mind as they ranked up she hulk. why is there no ability to recoup resources via compensation? we had no way to confirm that there was a bug. but now that there is...we're left punished by not being able to rank down and move on.
We the players are the ones that didn't learn...
so again, in general, when bug fixes happen, how do you expect them to communicate?
Again, others have said this but for this point ill repeat it: They knew people loved it in the beta feedback, they saw video after video for months of people using this tactic and said nothing, and at SOME POINT before this week at least they realized they needed to change it, then implemented the change and added it to the update log. Unless they did it THIS WEEK and truly didn't have time to let people know, which is silly on it's face to even think, then the communication they promised would be better never happened. Why are you arguing this so much dude? You know, sometimes you can just let others take the ball and be upset. Maybe some self reflection would do you good, cuz you're starting to just flat out not make sense.
This is days before the update. No warning prior. No dedicated announcement when they realized it. Slipped into the changelog. They had to merge threads because it started to take over the forum when released. They released variant 3 how long ago with rewards that were able to be used on this champion, and those like myself who got a science gem used it on her. Just please stop being so disingenuous for no reason, you're all over this thread arguing with people once again and being combative to try and derail it. Neither helpful or friendly in your answers either.
But the fact, that champions such as OML and champions with the uppercut heavy (Iron Man, LC, Hulk) have been able to do the same thing since all of them were released is pretty strange.
As I've stated a few times in this discussion I'm not angry about the action but rather the lack of communication. They can say all they want that this was unknown until just recently but they at least knew about this when they did Royal's content creator spotlight.
The communication I would have expected is a sticky at the top of the forum (like when the game goes down or there will be maintenance) stating certain champ(s) will be tweaked, having something in the bugs section called out in general or providing us their list of upcoming tweaks.
(Some champs you can punish after block their specials, some only after evade, some can’t be punished at all)
Until now the speed that every champion has after heavy, evade, special, regular hits was different and we (or at least I) was sure it was one of the “hidden” ability of each champs. If this is not true, please fix all the champions that their special attack is not “punishable”.
I still dont agree with his take here but were allowed to disagree.
regardless of whats being debated, it comes down to:
-summoners ranked she hulk up based on gameplay they saw.
-there was no way to confirm that she was bugged or not (even if kabam was unaware!)
-shes now being changed to be weaker than before.
all 3 of these are true and are factors right now. so why are we left to be burned by our rankup?
would it not be the fairest and cleanest way to move on by compensating us for the resources used?