Compensation for the Issues that we experienced on November 8th and the rewards that were unable to be claimed due to those issues are being sent out via in-game mail on November 15. Alliance War season rewards will be sent out on approximately November 20. Leaving your Alliance prior to this will result in missing out on your season rewards.

Upcoming Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw Balance Changes

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Comments

  • Japam12345Japam12345 Posts: 639 ★★
    LOL GUYS...

    You're all calling it a 'nerf' when Kabam had said that Cull will still remain one of the TOP DAMAGE DEALER in the game.

    Slow your horses.
  • Duke_SilverDuke_Silver Posts: 1,784 ★★★★
    This CO adjustment better be slight. I want that dude so bad, and I’d like it if by the time I finally got him, he was still an awesome champ.
  • feanorkndfeanorknd Posts: 35
    Also Cull did appear in May... You are not following your own rules, by announcing a nerf over a character almost FIVE months after launched. Many people spent a lot, money and resources to get it, even I used an awakening gem on him. And again, there are characters much more powerful like Namor with his 130k sp1, inside the 3 months analysis period you announced...

    Following your own rules I considered Cull was stable and I used my awakening gem on him and upgraded him.

    This is a bad joke.

  • dot_dittodot_ditto Posts: 660 ★★★
    Lormif said:


    Where can we see the data?

    What does that have to do with the statement. ?
    Everything!!

    That's what's so frustrating .. since you don't have the data, yet are arguing for it as if it's supports everything.

    It supports nothing .. if it's not readily available!!
  • SantaGulkSantaGulk Posts: 70
    I also think this p
    feanorknd said:

    You nerf Cull because of damage... OK... Why don't you nerf Namor? Corvus? Thing? Ghost?

    Namor is a complete beast, brand new, and so much more damage than Cull and without needing to ramp it up...

    You are completely wrong...

    Again, will you return to me my cosmic awakening gem used to awake Cull??? Not at all... Certainly... Well, this is completely unacceptable and you know it.

    I'm sure they're all on their list.
  • Japam12345Japam12345 Posts: 639 ★★
    _ASDF_ said:

    Can you imagine a Apple recalling their highest performing phone because it’s out performing their other phones and then returning it to their customers “tuned down”? No. That’s not a thing.

    A failure to properly test this champ even once before its release should be on kabam and not us. If they’d tested it even once, they should’ve easily seen the damage potential. WHICH they DID because he’s got garbage block proficiency as balance. This is absurd. Smh.

    They're 2 completely different things. Does Apple's Iphone 11 interact with all the Iphones in existence, i.e., iphone 1, iphone 2, iphone 3, etc.?

    No.

    It's a different product that is much more complex with interactions with new and old content that's ever been introduced and that is ever evolving.


  • dot_dittodot_ditto Posts: 660 ★★★


    If you can come up with another logical reason that fits the evidence

    What evidence? It's hard to come up with any conclusion when there is no data to review!!
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,639 ★★★★★
    dot_ditto said:

    Lormif said:


    Where can we see the data?

    What does that have to do with the statement. ?
    Everything!!

    That's what's so frustrating .. since you don't have the data, yet are arguing for it as if it's supports everything.

    It supports nothing .. if it's not readily available!!
    It does not have to be readily available to you for it to exist. Only a few game companies have ever shared their internal data like this. But again, what reason do they have to lie, alienate their customers and lose money?
  • dot_dittodot_ditto Posts: 660 ★★★
    Lormif said:


    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    WillieB said:

    WillieB said:

    People would complain for the sake of complaining sometimes... smh. .

    "Cull will remain one of the best damage champ in the game".

    Read.

    The problem is that Kabaam as a company does not know what a "best" champ is. This is obvious, especially after this post by them saying that Cull is too powerful and Ronin is ok. I have been "lucky" by pulling Ronin three times as a 5 star and he is never used outside of arena runs. He doesn't do anything well enough to get use. Cull does have great damage after he is ramped up, but his block proficiency is terrible. Even if you play him perfectly against end game content he loses health way too fast. I have him as a rank 4, but again, he never gets a spot on any of my teams because I have better options. Compared to Corvus, Ghost, IW Cap, Omega Red and a few others he lags far behind as an AQ/AW or questing champ. They obviously don't know how champions interact with the game if these are their conclusions. Now if they made a post saying that Ghost and Corvus will be re-balanced, then they have a point, and I have them both as max sig rank 5s, but not Cull.

    Yeah but out side of Corvus, Ghost, IW Cap, Omega Red, you would agree he is still one of the top damage dealer in the game once ramped up?

    He's easily top 10% in the game - correct?
    He might be top 10%, maybe, maybe not. But why nerf a champion that ranks in the 10-20 range? If you're going to start nefing champs why not go to the top, to the true game-breakers?
    Their hard data seems to counter your soft opinion.
    Where can we see the data?
    What does that have to do with the statement. Do you really honestly think they are risking losing money, as well as alienating their customer base just because they want to?
    It has everything to do with the statement. You said “their hard data counters your soft opinion”. What data? How do you know this unseen data holds any merit as a counter argument to anything if you have never evaluated its accuracy? For a man professing the power of context, the necessity of logic, and rational thinking, you sure are quick to buy into unfounded claims of supporting data.
    Again, answer my question... Do you really honestly think they would lose all this money, alienate all these customers, for what reason? The supporting data claim is not unfounded, I know the data that these types of companies get, but what reason do they have to lie about this. It does not garner them any extra money, and it causes them to lose money going forward.
    all assumptions on your part there .. I see nothing factual to respond to .. O.o
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,639 ★★★★★
    dot_ditto said:


    If you can come up with another logical reason that fits the evidence

    What evidence? It's hard to come up with any conclusion when there is no data to review!!
    Except there is data, you are just willfully ignoring it. We have data that we can see on videos of him doing damage. We also know that this will alienate people and cost them money.
  • Erikfive_0Erikfive_0 Posts: 108
    I don’t understand. A champ is released. We either grind for 3 days straight or spend a ridiculous amount of money to obtain them. We get the champ and r5 them. Now three months later you get to decide that they are “over powered” and neuter the champ? Why would anyone keep spending money or grinding so hard for the newest champ? When and where does your accountability begin? She hulk and most of the champs on the heavy list have been that way since their release. But now 2-3 years later her ability beats our content too good so she gets neutered. If we didn’t complain so hard and point out the other 12 champs they wouldn’t have changed since their abilities are not too good. AA. We were told by a moderator that he was working as intended. Then he was destroying content so he had to be neutered. This new tuning program was originally stated to start in October. But here we are again changing the rules. I just don’t understand.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,482 ★★★★★
    _ASDF_ said:

    Can you imagine a Apple recalling their highest performing phone because it’s out performing their other phones and then returning it to their customers “tuned down”? No. That’s not a thing.

    A failure to properly test this champ even once before its release should be on kabam and not us. If they’d tested it even once, they should’ve easily seen the damage potential. WHICH they DID because he’s got garbage block proficiency as balance. This is absurd. Smh.

    Almost as shady as releasing an OS that slows down older Models 6 months down the road.
  • _ASDF_ said:

    Can you imagine a Apple recalling their highest performing phone because it’s out performing their other phones and then returning it to their customers “tuned down”? No. That’s not a thing.

    A failure to properly test this champ even once before its release should be on kabam and not us. If they’d tested it even once, they should’ve easily seen the damage potential. WHICH they DID because he’s got garbage block proficiency as balance. This is absurd. Smh.

    Because Phones are not a game element that has balance constraints upon it, that's why that's not a thing.

    And what does "should be on Kabam and not us" even mean? It is on Kabam, which is why they are fixing it, which is their responsibility as the game developers. They aren't asking you to fix it. You seem to be implying if Kabam makes an error, they are not allowed to affect you while they are addressing it. That fundamentally misunderstands the relationship you and the developers have with the game. You play it, they make it. They have no obligation to ask you for permission to modify it.

    Every bug is Kabam's fault. And every bug is Kabam's responsibility to fix. There's no such thing as a bug that is the players' fault. The responsibility to operate and support the game is "on Kabam" and always is. But that says nothing about what parts of the game they are "allowed" to touch while doing so.
  • Japam12345Japam12345 Posts: 639 ★★

    WillieB said:

    People would complain for the sake of complaining sometimes... smh. .

    "Cull will remain one of the best damage champ in the game".

    Read.

    The problem is that Kabaam as a company does not know what a "best" champ is. This is obvious, especially after this post by them saying that Cull is too powerful and Ronin is ok. I have been "lucky" by pulling Ronin three times as a 5 star and he is never used outside of arena runs. He doesn't do anything well enough to get use. Cull does have great damage after he is ramped up, but his block proficiency is terrible. Even if you play him perfectly against end game content he loses health way too fast. I have him as a rank 4, but again, he never gets a spot on any of my teams because I have better options. Compared to Corvus, Ghost, IW Cap, Omega Red and a few others he lags far behind as an AQ/AW or questing champ. They obviously don't know how champions interact with the game if these are their conclusions. Now if they made a post saying that Ghost and Corvus will be re-balanced, then they have a point, and I have them both as max sig rank 5s, but not Cull.

    Yeah but out side of Corvus, Ghost, IW Cap, Omega Red, you would agree he is still one of the top damage dealer in the game once ramped up?

    He's easily top 10% in the game - correct?
    No, he certainly is not top 10%. With ~130 champs in the game, naming 13 better champs is easy. Here are some of the champs I'd rate as more useful than Cull:

    Corvus
    Ghost
    OR
    Namor
    CapIW
    Void
    Blade
    Thing
    Hype
    Sym Sup
    Claire Voyant
    Darkhawk
    Fury
    Warlock
    Starky
    Vison
    Domino
    Magik
    Gulk
    Medusa
    AA
    Venom
    VtD

    That's 23 and if pressed I'd prolly r5 a bunch more before Cull.
    Blade, Sym, Claire, Darkhawk, Warlock, Vision, Magik, Medusa, AA, Venom, VTD... do you seriously think a ramped up Cull can't beat or at least be on par with those guys damage wise?

    LOL .. we're talking about a different game here buddy.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,639 ★★★★★
    Honcho222 said:

    Lormif said:


    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    WillieB said:

    WillieB said:

    People would complain for the sake of complaining sometimes... smh. .

    "Cull will remain one of the best damage champ in the game".

    Read.

    The problem is that Kabaam as a company does not know what a "best" champ is. This is obvious, especially after this post by them saying that Cull is too powerful and Ronin is ok. I have been "lucky" by pulling Ronin three times as a 5 star and he is never used outside of arena runs. He doesn't do anything well enough to get use. Cull does have great damage after he is ramped up, but his block proficiency is terrible. Even if you play him perfectly against end game content he loses health way too fast. I have him as a rank 4, but again, he never gets a spot on any of my teams because I have better options. Compared to Corvus, Ghost, IW Cap, Omega Red and a few others he lags far behind as an AQ/AW or questing champ. They obviously don't know how champions interact with the game if these are their conclusions. Now if they made a post saying that Ghost and Corvus will be re-balanced, then they have a point, and I have them both as max sig rank 5s, but not Cull.

    Yeah but out side of Corvus, Ghost, IW Cap, Omega Red, you would agree he is still one of the top damage dealer in the game once ramped up?

    He's easily top 10% in the game - correct?
    He might be top 10%, maybe, maybe not. But why nerf a champion that ranks in the 10-20 range? If you're going to start nefing champs why not go to the top, to the true game-breakers?
    Their hard data seems to counter your soft opinion.
    Where can we see the data?
    What does that have to do with the statement. Do you really honestly think they are risking losing money, as well as alienating their customer base just because they want to?
    It has everything to do with the statement. You said “their hard data counters your soft opinion”. What data? How do you know this unseen data holds any merit as a counter argument to anything if you have never evaluated its accuracy? For a man professing the power of context, the necessity of logic, and rational thinking, you sure are quick to buy into unfounded claims of supporting data.
    Again, answer my question... Do you really honestly think they would lose all this money, alienate all these customers, for what reason? The supporting data claim is not unfounded, I know the data that these types of companies get, but what reason do they have to lie about this. It does not garner them any extra money, and it causes them to lose money going forward.
    It garners them extra money when players can't defeat content and then spend to do so. They're losing money because of Cull's damage.

    This is about their bottom line. If you think they are most concerned about the purity and balance of the game, you're probably a little naive.
    2 problems with this

    1) I have been assured by 90% of the players here that in order to clear content with cull you have to spend heavily on potions more than with other characters.
    2) The cost of alienating the big spenders outweigh that of spending on the potions needed.

    I know they are about the balance of the game. 12.0 for example was needed, I quit at the time because of how they went about it, but it was needed. New players could not get a foot hold because willpower was insane and so much could trigger it that it made it hard for new players to play.

    Here is the same. IF they allow an overpowered champ to exist they have to raise content sufficiently to make it difficult for him, they will get that potion money even with him. But this makes the other champs useless, so again, if they were ignoring balance it would be in their best interest to leave him in and create content around him..

    So your argument makes no sense.
  • _ASDF__ASDF_ Posts: 1,169 ★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    _ASDF_ said:

    Can you imagine a Apple recalling their highest performing phone because it’s out performing their other phones and then returning it to their customers “tuned down”? No. That’s not a thing.

    A failure to properly test this champ even once before its release should be on kabam and not us. If they’d tested it even once, they should’ve easily seen the damage potential. WHICH they DID because he’s got garbage block proficiency as balance. This is absurd. Smh.

    Because Phones are not a game element that has balance constraints upon it, that's why that's not a thing.

    And what does "should be on Kabam and not us" even mean? It is on Kabam, which is why they are fixing it, which is their responsibility as the game developers. They aren't asking you to fix it. You seem to be implying if Kabam makes an error, they are not allowed to affect you while they are addressing it. That fundamentally misunderstands the relationship you and the developers have with the game. You play it, they make it. They have no obligation to ask you for permission to modify it.

    Every bug is Kabam's fault. And every bug is Kabam's responsibility to fix. There's no such thing as a bug that is the players' fault. The responsibility to operate and support the game is "on Kabam" and always is. But that says nothing about what parts of the game they are "allowed" to touch while doing so.
    An analogy by definition, isn’t literal. Let’s not argue and distract from the actual issue at hand.

    “Should be on kabam” would obviously infer that balancing the Champion isn’t just neutering his damage but rather balancing him and they have a tendency to use a cleaver rather than a scalpel. Without the community pushing back, they’ve proven to be rather abusive. With even a basic amount of testing they could’ve avoided this issue entirely.
  • It has everything to do with the statement. You said “their hard data counters your soft opinion”. What data? How do you know this unseen data holds any merit as a counter argument to anything if you have never evaluated its accuracy? For a man professing the power of context, the necessity of logic, and rational thinking, you sure are quick to buy into unfounded claims of supporting data.

    No one outside of Kabam can know, and we'll likely never know, if Kabam's data actually supports their balance decisions. However, that's besides the point. If Kabam acts upon their data, and they won't show you the data, so you can't contradict the data, there's likely no argument you can possibly make that would convince them to abandon their data.

    Ask yourself if you possessed hard data that *you believed* mandated you do something in your job, and a customer told you that your data was wrong, but they hadn't seen it and you were forbidden from showing it to them, what argument would convince you to listen to this customer, ignore the data you believe in, disobey your boss that told you to act upon it, and do what the customer who has no idea how you do your job, what information you have at your disposal, or what your instructions from higher authority even were, asked you to do.

    When you come up with such an argument that you believe would actually work on you, please share with the rest of the forums because it would useful today.
  • Diksh619Diksh619 Posts: 148
    Rotelly said:

    RDT time

    Rank down tickets is no solution to this. People have invested money, time and effort. Give me back the 3 days of my life else say your sorry and you will test champs before you release them and move on.
  • ZuroZuro Posts: 1,624 ★★★★

    WillieB said:

    People would complain for the sake of complaining sometimes... smh. .

    "Cull will remain one of the best damage champ in the game".

    Read.

    The problem is that Kabaam as a company does not know what a "best" champ is. This is obvious, especially after this post by them saying that Cull is too powerful and Ronin is ok. I have been "lucky" by pulling Ronin three times as a 5 star and he is never used outside of arena runs. He doesn't do anything well enough to get use. Cull does have great damage after he is ramped up, but his block proficiency is terrible. Even if you play him perfectly against end game content he loses health way too fast. I have him as a rank 4, but again, he never gets a spot on any of my teams because I have better options. Compared to Corvus, Ghost, IW Cap, Omega Red and a few others he lags far behind as an AQ/AW or questing champ. They obviously don't know how champions interact with the game if these are their conclusions. Now if they made a post saying that Ghost and Corvus will be re-balanced, then they have a point, and I have them both as max sig rank 5s, but not Cull.

    Yeah but out side of Corvus, Ghost, IW Cap, Omega Red, you would agree he is still one of the top damage dealer in the game once ramped up?

    He's easily top 10% in the game - correct?
    No, he certainly is not top 10%. With ~130 champs in the game, naming 13 better champs is easy. Here are some of the champs I'd rate as more useful than Cull:

    Corvus
    Ghost
    OR
    Namor
    CapIW
    Void
    Blade
    Thing
    Hype
    Sym Sup
    Claire Voyant
    Darkhawk
    Fury
    Warlock
    Starky
    Vison
    Domino
    Magik
    Gulk
    Medusa
    AA
    Venom
    VtD

    That's 23 and if pressed I'd prolly r5 a bunch more before Cull.
    Blade, Sym, Claire, Darkhawk, Warlock, Vision, Magik, Medusa, AA, Venom, VTD... do you seriously think a ramped up Cull can't beat or at least be on par with those guys damage wise?

    LOL .. we're talking about a different game here buddy.
    Where did I say that that was a list of the biggest damage dealers?

    You said Cull was a top 10% champ in the game and I posted 23 champs that I'd easily take over him bunking you're wrong assumption.
    Exactly since those champs have great damage plus actually some sort of utility like Cull is the exact definition of a glass cannon
  • _ASDF_ said:

    “Should be on kabam” would obviously infer that balancing the Champion isn’t just neutering his damage but rather balancing him and they have a tendency to use a cleaver rather than a scalpel.

    I don't see how you get from "should be on Kabam" to "balance correctly" but if that's what you mean, I agree that at all times Kabam should balance correctly.
  • dot_dittodot_ditto Posts: 660 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    It has everything to do with the statement. You said “their hard data counters your soft opinion”. What data? How do you know this unseen data holds any merit as a counter argument to anything if you have never evaluated its accuracy? For a man professing the power of context, the necessity of logic, and rational thinking, you sure are quick to buy into unfounded claims of supporting data.

    No one outside of Kabam can know, and we'll likely never know, if Kabam's data actually supports their balance decisions. However, that's besides the point. If Kabam acts upon their data, and they won't show you the data, so you can't contradict the data, there's likely no argument you can possibly make that would convince them to abandon their data.

    Ask yourself if you possessed hard data that *you believed* mandated you do something in your job, and a customer told you that your data was wrong, but they hadn't seen it and you were forbidden from showing it to them, what argument would convince you to listen to this customer, ignore the data you believe in, disobey your boss that told you to act upon it, and do what the customer who has no idea how you do your job, what information you have at your disposal, or what your instructions from higher authority even were, asked you to do.
    Unfortunately that analogy doesn't really hold here ... there really isn't any reason for them to withhold any data demonstrating the damage output of Cull vs other champs .. in fact, that data should be REALLY easy to demonstrate ..

    Also, they've indicated they want to improve communication with the player base ... well this is exactly how you do that .. you provide the information related to a decision so the player base can see WHY that decision was made.
    (we may or may not agree with it .. but that's a different issue ;) )

    Bottom line, they have no real reason to withhold the information ... other than they don't really have anything substantial ..
    *shrug*

    I'll hold my opinions until I see such information in any case .. :)
    You're welcome to your wild, unsubstantiated speculations and blind "faith" in kabam's processes ... I for one, don't have a lot of faith in them based on recent events ... *shrug*
  • Honcho222Honcho222 Posts: 14
    Lormif said:

    Honcho222 said:

    Lormif said:


    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    WillieB said:

    WillieB said:

    People would complain for the sake of complaining sometimes... smh. .

    "Cull will remain one of the best damage champ in the game".

    Read.

    The problem is that Kabaam as a company does not know what a "best" champ is. This is obvious, especially after this post by them saying that Cull is too powerful and Ronin is ok. I have been "lucky" by pulling Ronin three times as a 5 star and he is never used outside of arena runs. He doesn't do anything well enough to get use. Cull does have great damage after he is ramped up, but his block proficiency is terrible. Even if you play him perfectly against end game content he loses health way too fast. I have him as a rank 4, but again, he never gets a spot on any of my teams because I have better options. Compared to Corvus, Ghost, IW Cap, Omega Red and a few others he lags far behind as an AQ/AW or questing champ. They obviously don't know how champions interact with the game if these are their conclusions. Now if they made a post saying that Ghost and Corvus will be re-balanced, then they have a point, and I have them both as max sig rank 5s, but not Cull.

    Yeah but out side of Corvus, Ghost, IW Cap, Omega Red, you would agree he is still one of the top damage dealer in the game once ramped up?

    He's easily top 10% in the game - correct?
    He might be top 10%, maybe, maybe not. But why nerf a champion that ranks in the 10-20 range? If you're going to start nefing champs why not go to the top, to the true game-breakers?
    Their hard data seems to counter your soft opinion.
    Where can we see the data?
    What does that have to do with the statement. Do you really honestly think they are risking losing money, as well as alienating their customer base just because they want to?
    It has everything to do with the statement. You said “their hard data counters your soft opinion”. What data? How do you know this unseen data holds any merit as a counter argument to anything if you have never evaluated its accuracy? For a man professing the power of context, the necessity of logic, and rational thinking, you sure are quick to buy into unfounded claims of supporting data.
    Again, answer my question... Do you really honestly think they would lose all this money, alienate all these customers, for what reason? The supporting data claim is not unfounded, I know the data that these types of companies get, but what reason do they have to lie about this. It does not garner them any extra money, and it causes them to lose money going forward.
    It garners them extra money when players can't defeat content and then spend to do so. They're losing money because of Cull's damage.

    This is about their bottom line. If you think they are most concerned about the purity and balance of the game, you're probably a little naive.
    2 problems with this

    1) I have been assured by 90% of the players here that in order to clear content with cull you have to spend heavily on potions more than with other characters.
    2) The cost of alienating the big spenders outweigh that of spending on the potions needed.

    I know they are about the balance of the game. 12.0 for example was needed, I quit at the time because of how they went about it, but it was needed. New players could not get a foot hold because willpower was insane and so much could trigger it that it made it hard for new players to play.

    Here is the same. IF they allow an overpowered champ to exist they have to raise content sufficiently to make it difficult for him, they will get that potion money even with him. But this makes the other champs useless, so again, if they were ignoring balance it would be in their best interest to leave him in and create content around him..

    So your argument makes no sense.
    Your two problems are both assumptions but...

    why the need to balance the game if Cull can't get through hard content already released without pots? Why would they make content harder due to Cull if he can't get through content already out?
  • SDPSDP Posts: 1,493 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    dot_ditto said:

    Lormif said:


    Where can we see the data?

    What does that have to do with the statement. ?
    Everything!!

    That's what's so frustrating .. since you don't have the data, yet are arguing for it as if it's supports everything.

    It supports nothing .. if it's not readily available!!
    It does not have to be readily available to you for it to exist. Only a few game companies have ever shared their internal data like this. But again, what reason do they have to lie, alienate their customers and lose money?
    So, you are in total agreement that Cull “wildly outdamages other champs” to such a degree that he is nerf worthy? Is this correct? Would you say every fight? Every third fight?

    It’s not that they are lying. They’re just using ridiculous statements such as the one I previously quoted”, when those of us who actually play the game know better. They approach these communications like we are six years old.

    There are numerous champs that smash the hell out of Cull’s damage over say a few fights. So, who do they mean? His damage is wildly higher than say Cyclops?
  • ZuroZuro Posts: 1,624 ★★★★
    Beyond00_ said:

    WillieB said:

    People would complain for the sake of complaining sometimes... smh. .

    "Cull will remain one of the best damage champ in the game".

    Read.

    The problem is that Kabaam as a company does not know what a "best" champ is. This is obvious, especially after this post by them saying that Cull is too powerful and Ronin is ok. I have been "lucky" by pulling Ronin three times as a 5 star and he is never used outside of arena runs. He doesn't do anything well enough to get use. Cull does have great damage after he is ramped up, but his block proficiency is terrible. Even if you play him perfectly against end game content he loses health way too fast. I have him as a rank 4, but again, he never gets a spot on any of my teams because I have better options. Compared to Corvus, Ghost, IW Cap, Omega Red and a few others he lags far behind as an AQ/AW or questing champ. They obviously don't know how champions interact with the game if these are their conclusions. Now if they made a post saying that Ghost and Corvus will be re-balanced, then they have a point, and I have them both as max sig rank 5s, but not Cull.

    Yeah but out side of Corvus, Ghost, IW Cap, Omega Red, you would agree he is still one of the top damage dealer in the game once ramped up?

    He's easily top 10% in the game - correct?
    No, he certainly is not top 10%. With ~130 champs in the game, naming 13 better champs is easy. Here are some of the champs I'd rate as more useful than Cull:

    Corvus
    Ghost
    OR
    Namor
    CapIW
    Void
    Blade
    Thing
    Hype
    Sym Sup
    Claire Voyant
    Darkhawk
    Fury
    Warlock
    Starky
    Vison
    Domino
    Magik
    Gulk
    Medusa
    AA
    Venom
    VtD

    That's 23 and if pressed I'd prolly r5 a bunch more before Cull.
    Blade, Sym, Claire, Darkhawk, Warlock, Vision, Magik, Medusa, AA, Venom, VTD... do you seriously think a ramped up Cull can't beat or at least be on par with those guys damage wise?

    LOL .. we're talking about a different game here buddy.
    But thats the point he needs to be ramped. That's why everyone uses Corvus for legend runs and not Cull Obsidian or anyone else really ...
    And plus cull hype died down real fast he was pretty much only relevant for like a month tbh
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 842 ★★★
    Honcho222 said:

    Lormif said:

    Honcho222 said:

    Lormif said:


    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    WillieB said:

    WillieB said:

    People would complain for the sake of complaining sometimes... smh. .

    "Cull will remain one of the best damage champ in the game".

    Read.

    The problem is that Kabaam as a company does not know what a "best" champ is. This is obvious, especially after this post by them saying that Cull is too powerful and Ronin is ok. I have been "lucky" by pulling Ronin three times as a 5 star and he is never used outside of arena runs. He doesn't do anything well enough to get use. Cull does have great damage after he is ramped up, but his block proficiency is terrible. Even if you play him perfectly against end game content he loses health way too fast. I have him as a rank 4, but again, he never gets a spot on any of my teams because I have better options. Compared to Corvus, Ghost, IW Cap, Omega Red and a few others he lags far behind as an AQ/AW or questing champ. They obviously don't know how champions interact with the game if these are their conclusions. Now if they made a post saying that Ghost and Corvus will be re-balanced, then they have a point, and I have them both as max sig rank 5s, but not Cull.

    Yeah but out side of Corvus, Ghost, IW Cap, Omega Red, you would agree he is still one of the top damage dealer in the game once ramped up?

    He's easily top 10% in the game - correct?
    He might be top 10%, maybe, maybe not. But why nerf a champion that ranks in the 10-20 range? If you're going to start nefing champs why not go to the top, to the true game-breakers?
    Their hard data seems to counter your soft opinion.
    Where can we see the data?
    What does that have to do with the statement. Do you really honestly think they are risking losing money, as well as alienating their customer base just because they want to?
    It has everything to do with the statement. You said “their hard data counters your soft opinion”. What data? How do you know this unseen data holds any merit as a counter argument to anything if you have never evaluated its accuracy? For a man professing the power of context, the necessity of logic, and rational thinking, you sure are quick to buy into unfounded claims of supporting data.
    Again, answer my question... Do you really honestly think they would lose all this money, alienate all these customers, for what reason? The supporting data claim is not unfounded, I know the data that these types of companies get, but what reason do they have to lie about this. It does not garner them any extra money, and it causes them to lose money going forward.
    It garners them extra money when players can't defeat content and then spend to do so. They're losing money because of Cull's damage.

    This is about their bottom line. If you think they are most concerned about the purity and balance of the game, you're probably a little naive.
    2 problems with this

    1) I have been assured by 90% of the players here that in order to clear content with cull you have to spend heavily on potions more than with other characters.
    2) The cost of alienating the big spenders outweigh that of spending on the potions needed.

    I know they are about the balance of the game. 12.0 for example was needed, I quit at the time because of how they went about it, but it was needed. New players could not get a foot hold because willpower was insane and so much could trigger it that it made it hard for new players to play.

    Here is the same. IF they allow an overpowered champ to exist they have to raise content sufficiently to make it difficult for him, they will get that potion money even with him. But this makes the other champs useless, so again, if they were ignoring balance it would be in their best interest to leave him in and create content around him..

    So your argument makes no sense.
    Your two problems are both assumptions but...

    why the need to balance the game if Cull can't get through hard content already released without pots? Why would they make content harder due to Cull if he can't get through content already out?
    I think the idea is that Cull is less effective and efficient than many other champs for higher-end content. Not that he couldn't even get through the content.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,639 ★★★★★
    Honcho222 said:

    Lormif said:

    Honcho222 said:

    Lormif said:


    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    WillieB said:

    WillieB said:

    People would complain for the sake of complaining sometimes... smh. .

    "Cull will remain one of the best damage champ in the game".

    Read.

    The problem is that Kabaam as a company does not know what a "best" champ is. This is obvious, especially after this post by them saying that Cull is too powerful and Ronin is ok. I have been "lucky" by pulling Ronin three times as a 5 star and he is never used outside of arena runs. He doesn't do anything well enough to get use. Cull does have great damage after he is ramped up, but his block proficiency is terrible. Even if you play him perfectly against end game content he loses health way too fast. I have him as a rank 4, but again, he never gets a spot on any of my teams because I have better options. Compared to Corvus, Ghost, IW Cap, Omega Red and a few others he lags far behind as an AQ/AW or questing champ. They obviously don't know how champions interact with the game if these are their conclusions. Now if they made a post saying that Ghost and Corvus will be re-balanced, then they have a point, and I have them both as max sig rank 5s, but not Cull.

    Yeah but out side of Corvus, Ghost, IW Cap, Omega Red, you would agree he is still one of the top damage dealer in the game once ramped up?

    He's easily top 10% in the game - correct?
    He might be top 10%, maybe, maybe not. But why nerf a champion that ranks in the 10-20 range? If you're going to start nefing champs why not go to the top, to the true game-breakers?
    Their hard data seems to counter your soft opinion.
    Where can we see the data?
    What does that have to do with the statement. Do you really honestly think they are risking losing money, as well as alienating their customer base just because they want to?
    It has everything to do with the statement. You said “their hard data counters your soft opinion”. What data? How do you know this unseen data holds any merit as a counter argument to anything if you have never evaluated its accuracy? For a man professing the power of context, the necessity of logic, and rational thinking, you sure are quick to buy into unfounded claims of supporting data.
    Again, answer my question... Do you really honestly think they would lose all this money, alienate all these customers, for what reason? The supporting data claim is not unfounded, I know the data that these types of companies get, but what reason do they have to lie about this. It does not garner them any extra money, and it causes them to lose money going forward.
    It garners them extra money when players can't defeat content and then spend to do so. They're losing money because of Cull's damage.

    This is about their bottom line. If you think they are most concerned about the purity and balance of the game, you're probably a little naive.
    2 problems with this

    1) I have been assured by 90% of the players here that in order to clear content with cull you have to spend heavily on potions more than with other characters.
    2) The cost of alienating the big spenders outweigh that of spending on the potions needed.

    I know they are about the balance of the game. 12.0 for example was needed, I quit at the time because of how they went about it, but it was needed. New players could not get a foot hold because willpower was insane and so much could trigger it that it made it hard for new players to play.

    Here is the same. IF they allow an overpowered champ to exist they have to raise content sufficiently to make it difficult for him, they will get that potion money even with him. But this makes the other champs useless, so again, if they were ignoring balance it would be in their best interest to leave him in and create content around him..

    So your argument makes no sense.
    Your two problems are both assumptions but...

    why the need to balance the game if Cull can't get through hard content already released without pots? Why would they make content harder due to Cull if he can't get through content already out?
    Number 1 is a fact, number 2 is an assumption but a pretty well founded one.

    I am not arguing cull cannot get through hard content without pots, others have. My argument is if this was about pots they have a way of fixing that issue without alienating the community through modifying the difficulty of the content. They the community only gets a little irritated, not inflamed like this, they keep their potions and lose less money.
  • Japam12345Japam12345 Posts: 639 ★★



    As someone who also spent to get Namor, Stelthy and Claire in addition to Cull I'm very worried that all that was just for a few months before they're nerfed.

    Yeah but they've told you that there'd be rebalancing right? It's on you as to whether you choose to spend the money going forward?

    Also don't forget that the good news is champs that aren't up to par like Ebony Maw are going to get a buff as well - so you do get that assurance on the other side of the spectrum.

    How can they be more transparent than that?
  • ZuroZuro Posts: 1,624 ★★★★
    edited September 12



    As someone who also spent to get Namor, Stelthy and Claire in addition to Cull I'm very worried that all that was just for a few months before they're nerfed.

    Yeah but they've told you that there'd be rebalancing right? It's on you as to whether you choose to spend the money going forward?

    Also don't forget that the good news is champs that aren't up to par like Ebony Maw are going to get a buff as well - so you do get that assurance on the other side of the spectrum.

    How can they be more transparent than that?
    What you said makes no sense @RagamugginGunner said he spent for champs like Namor and they never announced these rebalances until after he came out so how is that fair in any way
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