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Upcoming Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw Balance Changes

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Comments

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    LormifLormif Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:

    dot_ditto said:

    Lormif said:


    So you cannot support your claim, got it...You cannot even post an hypothetical, just all conspiracy...

    sorry? what claim .. go back through .. I have made zero claims.
    none what-so-ever .. try to keep up .

    I am waiting to see the data before making any claims ;)

    nice try though ...
    This is akin to banging our heads against a brick wall. Haha. There is no meaningful discourse to be found here. These guys have been on here for hours barfing about their faith in the “data”. There is no reason here. They know the data exists, cause they believe in the righteous business model. You know how the religious can be.
    I know the data exists, what I dont know is if it says what they claim. Outside of that I know that outside of what they claim there is no sound business sense for doing this other than what they stated, and you have thus far failed to even try to come up with one.
    What? Is that burden on me? I’m questioning it’s existence altogether. I made that abundantly clear. I’ve already stated that there may not be any sound business sense at play here. You are engaging in the obvious fallacy that sound business sense is a given here. Just cause it wouldn’t make sound business sense doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. People make poor decisions all the time. I know you are smarter than this.
    Except I did not say it was a given, I said given what we know. Please do not create strawmen. I am allowed to extrapolate on what we know to come to a conclusion, as long as I dont go to extremes.

    People make poor decisions all the time, sure, but if this was the case they would be making constant and repeated poor decisions, to the point where it should run them out of business. But this change makes perfect sense according to what they claim, and no one has been able to come up with a reason why they would do this outside of self defeating conspiracies.
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    Justin2524Justin2524 Posts: 1,626 ★★★★
    Zuro said:



    As someone who also spent to get Namor, Stelthy and Claire in addition to Cull I'm very worried that all that was just for a few months before they're nerfed.

    Yeah but they've told you that there'd be rebalancing right? It's on you as to whether you choose to spend the money going forward?

    Also don't forget that the good news is champs that aren't up to par like Ebony Maw are going to get a buff as well - so you do get that assurance on the other side of the spectrum.

    How can they be more transparent than that?
    What you said makes no sense @RagamugginGunner saI'd he spent for champs like Namor and they never announcedid these rebalances until after he came out so how is that fair in any way
    I said "going forward".
  • Options
    SDPSDP Posts: 1,622 ★★★★
    Bottom line is this:

    If the data model they are utilizing in their quest for balance has led them to Cull as first priority, then this model is flawed. I can’t imagine an credible evaluation process that singled him out.

    They either nerf all the so called “beyond god tier” or “god tier” champs as well, or simply put this endeavor has zero integrity. At the very least, it is flawed from the jump, and ultimately (in my opinion) doomed.
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    LormifLormif Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★

    funny how almost every adjustment seems to be a nerf instead of fixing champions they've ruined (ONLY that benefit the player wink wink), masteries that are broken, champions that need buffs desperately

    LOL .. what? Colossus? OML? Maw?
    Shehulk who they "buffed" then nerfed says hi
    That in no way counters his counter. You claimed almost every, he came back with 3 new ones, not to mention all the old ones, to when you come back with a single....
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    LormifLormif Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:



    As someone who also spent to get Namor, Stelthy and Claire in addition to Cull I'm very worried that all that was just for a few months before they're nerfed.

    Yeah but they've told you that there'd be rebalancing right? It's on you as to whether you choose to spend the money going forward?

    Also don't forget that the good news is champs that aren't up to par like Ebony Maw are going to get a buff as well - so you do get that assurance on the other side of the spectrum.

    How can they be more transparent than that?
    What you said makes no sense @RagamugginGunner saI'd he spent for champs like Namor and they never announcedid these rebalances until after he came out so how is that fair in any way
    I said "going forward".
    Still doesn't change the fact that @RagamugginGunner paid for Namor expecting him to work as portrayed but now there is a chance he is gonna get nerfed so where is the transparency there
    there is always a chance that any champion, if broken can be nerfed. There is a lot of transparancy, they gave you 3 months with this one.
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    Since Kabam closed my thread ill say it hear, lets try to help kabam and not hate them. Give some good solutions to balance him. For example reduce the max stack of thanos favor to 5 or 6 but increase their damage to where it is similar to 7 or 8 charges on our current version of cull.
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    Deewhy69Deewhy69 Posts: 3
    Cull? This is crazy, his block proficiency is the absolute worst, on top of that you have to do fights to ramp him up. You have to be a very skilled player to handle him, why to nerf him? It's so upsetting, the kind of things that make u wanna quit the game
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    Justin2524Justin2524 Posts: 1,626 ★★★★

    Bottom line is this:

    If the data model they are utilizing in their quest for balance has led them to Cull as first priority, then this model is flawed. I can’t imagine an credible evaluation process that singled him out.

    They either nerf all the so called “beyond god tier” or “god tier” champs as well, or simply put this endeavor has zero integrity. At the very least, it is flawed from the jump, and ultimately (in my opinion) doomed.

    I think what they're doing is they're looking at the recent champs and are then moving forward with the 3 month release schedule.
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    SlapdashSlapdash Posts: 39

    WingTSE said:

    Why not just make champs that can counter balance those champs rather than constantly nerfing champs?

    When you have a Champion that wildly outdamages other Champions, and we start making content to counter that specific Champion, this harshly punishes every other Champion in game, and every Summoner that does not have that Champion.
    Existing nodes like Buffet, Masochism, Stun Immunity, and Mighty Charge, to name a few, slow if not stop Cull entirely. His block proficiency is also quite low, and his damage is behind a difficult ramp up. Things already exist that counter him.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,355 ★★★★★

    Bottom line is this:

    If the data model they are utilizing in their quest for balance has led them to Cull as first priority, then this model is flawed. I can’t imagine an credible evaluation process that singled him out.

    They either nerf all the so called “beyond god tier” or “god tier” champs as well, or simply put this endeavor has zero integrity. At the very least, it is flawed from the jump, and ultimately (in my opinion) doomed.

    He wasn't first priority. People begged for Maw, and Cull was alongside. Their plan was to start with Annihilus and HT.
  • Options
    Justin2524Justin2524 Posts: 1,626 ★★★★
    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:



    As someone who also spent to get Namor, Stelthy and Claire in addition to Cull I'm very worried that all that was just for a few months before they're nerfed.

    Yeah but they've told you that there'd be rebalancing right? It's on you as to whether you choose to spend the money going forward?

    Also don't forget that the good news is champs that aren't up to par like Ebony Maw are going to get a buff as well - so you do get that assurance on the other side of the spectrum.

    How can they be more transparent than that?
    What you said makes no sense @RagamugginGunner saI'd he spent for champs like Namor and they never announcedid these rebalances until after he came out so how is that fair in any way
    I said "going forward".
    Still doesn't change the fact that @RagamugginGunner paid for Namor expecting him to work as portrayed but now there is a chance he is gonna get nerfed so where is the transparency there
    There'll always be certain champs that fall through the cracks with these things, but the good news is that going forward rebalancing is good for the game overall.
  • Options
    BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 2,343 ★★★★★
    Slapdash said:

    WingTSE said:

    Why not just make champs that can counter balance those champs rather than constantly nerfing champs?

    When you have a Champion that wildly outdamages other Champions, and we start making content to counter that specific Champion, this harshly punishes every other Champion in game, and every Summoner that does not have that Champion.
    Existing nodes like Buffet, Masochism, Stun Immunity, and Mighty Charge, to name a few, slow if not stop Cull entirely. His block proficiency is also quite low, and his damage is behind a difficult ramp up. Things already exist that counter him.
    I see what you did there.
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    SDPSDP Posts: 1,622 ★★★★
    edited September 2019

    Bottom line is this:

    If the data model they are utilizing in their quest for balance has led them to Cull as first priority, then this model is flawed. I can’t imagine an credible evaluation process that singled him out.

    They either nerf all the so called “beyond god tier” or “god tier” champs as well, or simply put this endeavor has zero integrity. At the very least, it is flawed from the jump, and ultimately (in my opinion) doomed.

    He wasn't first priority. People begged for Maw, and Cull was alongside. Their plan was to start with Annihilus and HT.
    Their intense wording regarding his damage and viability was laughable though. They made him sound like OP Enemy #1, correct? He’s not even close.
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    ZuroZuro Posts: 2,804 ★★★★★

    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:



    As someone who also spent to get Namor, Stelthy and Claire in addition to Cull I'm very worried that all that was just for a few months before they're nerfed.

    Yeah but they've told you that there'd be rebalancing right? It's on you as to whether you choose to spend the money going forward?

    Also don't forget that the good news is champs that aren't up to par like Ebony Maw are going to get a buff as well - so you do get that assurance on the other side of the spectrum.

    How can they be more transparent than that?
    What you said makes no sense @RagamugginGunner saI'd he spent for champs like Namor and they never announcedid these rebalances until after he came out so how is that fair in any way
    I said "going forward".
    Still doesn't change the fact that @RagamugginGunner paid for Namor expecting him to work as portrayed but now there is a chance he is gonna get nerfed so where is the transparency there
    There'll always be certain champs that fall through the cracks with these things, but the good news is that going forward rebalancing is good for the game overall.
    Yeah rebalances are nice if it's actually needed like why does Cull need he has no utility no health and no block proficiency all he has is damage and they are gonna nerf the only thing he is good at for what reason and not even that he has his fair share of counters to like limber,masochism, fisticuffs, etc.
  • Options
    ZuroZuro Posts: 2,804 ★★★★★
    edited September 2019
    IDoge said:

    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:



    As someone who also spent to get Namor, Stelthy and Claire in addition to Cull I'm very worried that all that was just for a few months before they're nerfed.

    Yeah but they've told you that there'd be rebalancing right? It's on you as to whether you choose to spend the money going forward?

    Also don't forget that the good news is champs that aren't up to par like Ebony Maw are going to get a buff as well - so you do get that assurance on the other side of the spectrum.

    How can they be more transparent than that?
    What you said makes no sense @RagamugginGunner saI'd he spent for champs like Namor and they never announcedid these rebalances until after he came out so how is that fair in any way
    I said "going forward".
    Still doesn't change the fact that @RagamugginGunner paid for Namor expecting him to work as portrayed but now there is a chance he is gonna get nerfed so where is the transparency there
    There'll always be certain champs that fall through the cracks with these things, but the good news is that going forward rebalancing is good for the game overall.
    Yeah rebalances are nice if it's actually needed like why does Cull need he has no utility no health and no block proficiency all he has is damage and they are gonna nerf the only thing he is good at for what reason and not even that he has his fair share of counters to like limber,masochism, fisticuffs, etc.
    The thing is, without his counters, he simply outputed way too much damage. 50k mediums, 200k sp2s, and 400k sp3s. There's no stopping him if there are no nodes against his abilities.
    Yes there is stopping him his trash health and block proficiency like people rarely use him in endgame content anyways
  • Options
    SDPSDP Posts: 1,622 ★★★★
    IDoge said:

    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:



    As someone who also spent to get Namor, Stelthy and Claire in addition to Cull I'm very worried that all that was just for a few months before they're nerfed.

    Yeah but they've told you that there'd be rebalancing right? It's on you as to whether you choose to spend the money going forward?

    Also don't forget that the good news is champs that aren't up to par like Ebony Maw are going to get a buff as well - so you do get that assurance on the other side of the spectrum.

    How can they be more transparent than that?
    What you said makes no sense @RagamugginGunner saI'd he spent for champs like Namor and they never announcedid these rebalances until after he came out so how is that fair in any way
    I said "going forward".
    Still doesn't change the fact that @RagamugginGunner paid for Namor expecting him to work as portrayed but now there is a chance he is gonna get nerfed so where is the transparency there
    There'll always be certain champs that fall through the cracks with these things, but the good news is that going forward rebalancing is good for the game overall.
    Yeah rebalances are nice if it's actually needed like why does Cull need he has no utility no health and no block proficiency all he has is damage and they are gonna nerf the only thing he is good at for what reason and not even that he has his fair share of counters to like limber,masochism, fisticuffs, etc.
    The thing is, without his counters, he simply outputed way too much damage. 50k mediums, 200k sp2s, and 400k sp3s. There's no stopping him if there are no nodes against his abilities.
    In his 4th fight on a quest, sure. I can do 600k damage with my domino in a minute, and I can do it nearly every fight. Nick Fury can do a million bleed damage in a couple minutes. The list goes on and on.
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    Casidy11_Casidy11_ Posts: 15
    Cull is a balanced champ currently “as-is” He has low block proficiency, he has a lack of immunities, and he is a ramp up champ which produces great dmg output “once” you get there. I don’t see a logical reason to rebalance this champ for just his dmg, as dmg output by other more versatile champs are inline with culls.

    It’s getting ridiculous the unpredictability in how to rank champs because of the constant “nerfs”. Yes some are justified but this one is not.

    This rebalancing process just confirms to never spend on any champ.
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    YangusftwYangusftw Posts: 1
    I want my sig stones rank up materials awakening gem and my money back I used to get my 5* cull
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,355 ★★★★★
    edited September 2019
    They announced HT and Annihilus. Person after person said, "What about Maw? What about Maw?"
    Now that they went back further to rebalance Maw and Cull, people are complaining about their priority list.
    Um....hello!
  • Options
    ZuroZuro Posts: 2,804 ★★★★★
    IDoge said:

    Zuro said:

    IDoge said:

    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:



    As someone who also spent to get Namor, Stelthy and Claire in addition to Cull I'm very worried that all that was just for a few months before they're nerfed.

    Yeah but they've told you that there'd be rebalancing right? It's on you as to whether you choose to spend the money going forward?

    Also don't forget that the good news is champs that aren't up to par like Ebony Maw are going to get a buff as well - so you do get that assurance on the other side of the spectrum.

    How can they be more transparent than that?
    What you said makes no sense @RagamugginGunner saI'd he spent for champs like Namor and they never announcedid these rebalances until after he came out so how is that fair in any way
    I said "going forward".
    Still doesn't change the fact that @RagamugginGunner paid for Namor expecting him to work as portrayed but now there is a chance he is gonna get nerfed so where is the transparency there
    There'll always be certain champs that fall through the cracks with these things, but the good news is that going forward rebalancing is good for the game overall.
    Yeah rebalances are nice if it's actually needed like why does Cull need he has no utility no health and no block proficiency all he has is damage and they are gonna nerf the only thing he is good at for what reason and not even that he has his fair share of counters to like limber,masochism, fisticuffs, etc.
    The thing is, without his counters, he simply outputed way too much damage. 50k mediums, 200k sp2s, and 400k sp3s. There's no stopping him if there are no nodes against his abilities.
    Yes there is stopping him his trash health and block proficiency like people rarely use him in endgame content anyways
    He doesn't have trash health it's actually on the higher end of the base health spectrum. His block proficiency can really show against champs with multiple hits or that are stun immune so it's quite simple... don't use him against those type of fights. He was not meant for them. If you use him you must parry with caution to try and avoid any further block damage.
    Even then please tell me what endgame content he absolutely destroys
  • Options
    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:



    As someone who also spent to get Namor, Stelthy and Claire in addition to Cull I'm very worried that all that was just for a few months before they're nerfed.

    Yeah but they've told you that there'd be rebalancing right? It's on you as to whether you choose to spend the money going forward?

    Also don't forget that the good news is champs that aren't up to par like Ebony Maw are going to get a buff as well - so you do get that assurance on the other side of the spectrum.

    How can they be more transparent than that?
    What you said makes no sense @RagamugginGunner saI'd he spent for champs like Namor and they never announcedid these rebalances until after he came out so how is that fair in any way
    I said "going forward".
    Still doesn't change the fact that @RagamugginGunner paid for Namor expecting him to work as portrayed but now there is a chance he is gonna get nerfed so where is the transparency there
    There'll always be certain champs that fall through the cracks with these things, but the good news is that going forward rebalancing is good for the game overall.
    Yeah rebalances are nice if it's actually needed like why does Cull need he has no utility no health and no block proficiency all he has is damage and they are gonna nerf the only thing he is good at for what reason and not even that he has his fair share of counters to like limber,masochism, fisticuffs, etc.
    You're arguing that Cull *shouldn't* perform all that well because he has these counters and vulnerabilities. Kabam is saying yes, but in actual fact he does perform far above everyone else in a particular area.

    A lot of people have argued that the data must be wrong. But you can't argue that without access to the data. No would would believe an outside commentator over their own direct measurements, unless someone found a flaw in those measurements. And if their data is proprietary, we won't be allowed to see all of the data and how it was collected. Even seeing the data alone doesn't tell us anything, because all we'll see is one number bigger than all the others. *How* that number is generated is everything, and even if they lose their minds and show us the report, there's no *way* they are showing us the actual data collection methodology and systems. Telling us this is indirectly leaking information to the players on how to manipulate data collection to skew their balancing data in ways advantageous to the players, however unlikely.

    You can argue my house should have certain dimensions from my description, but if I take out a tape measure and actually measure it, that's the number I'm going to believe. I'm not saying I'm guaranteed to be right: I could have made a mistake. But I'm always going to believe my measurement over someone else's deduction, and so will just about everyone else.

    Cull's revisit is needed because there's a number on a report that says it is needed. The number might be wrong, but the developers are going to believe that number over any attempt to deduce the number "must" be wrong. As would almost everyone else here. Heck, people believe their own single anecdotes about performance over everything else. Everyone else's anecdotes are wrong, or skewed, or flawed, or hampered by the lack of skill of the tester.
This discussion has been closed.