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Upcoming Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw Balance Changes

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Comments

  • Options
    Justin2524Justin2524 Posts: 1,626 ★★★★
    Kade7175 said:

    To all you people saying that people are just whining that they arent getting their way. Were you on here saying cull had way too much power? Were the whiners on here begging for cull to have more damage? F no. Kabam MARKETED this champ. They SOLD crystals that a lot of us worked hard for money to BUY. I dont care about the tos points people want to make this is horrible business practice. Its deceptive marketing, then they take all the money they can get and within a week of him being in the basic pool they announce hes getting reworked. That is close to fraud if not fraud. And screw the courts, the public courts will be the one to shut this company down. News is hurting for hard hitting content. Enough people make some noise and let the court of people decide. Im sure the news would love to warn future customers about the horrible business practices and to protect their children from money grabbing lick based games like this. Look at EA. I hope kabam look at the out pouring of the community on this and leave him alone.

    Are you Kade from the Summoner Showdown?
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    RoninManRoninMan Posts: 747 ★★★★
    IDoge said:

    RoninMan said:

    IDoge said:

    RoninMan said:

    IDoge said:

    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:



    As someone who also spent to get Namor, Stelthy and Claire in addition to Cull I'm very worried that all that was just for a few months before they're nerfed.

    Yeah but they've told you that there'd be rebalancing right? It's on you as to whether you choose to spend the money going forward?

    Also don't forget that the good news is champs that aren't up to par like Ebony Maw are going to get a buff as well - so you do get that assurance on the other side of the spectrum.

    How can they be more transparent than that?
    What you said makes no sense @RagamugginGunner saI'd he spent for champs like Namor and they never announcedid these rebalances until after he came out so how is that fair in any way
    I said "going forward".
    Still doesn't change the fact that @RagamugginGunner paid for Namor expecting him to work as portrayed but now there is a chance he is gonna get nerfed so where is the transparency there
    There'll always be certain champs that fall through the cracks with these things, but the good news is that going forward rebalancing is good for the game overall.
    Yeah rebalances are nice if it's actually needed like why does Cull need he has no utility no health and no block proficiency all he has is damage and they are gonna nerf the only thing he is good at for what reason and not even that he has his fair share of counters to like limber,masochism, fisticuffs, etc.
    The thing is, without his counters, he simply outputed way too much damage. 50k mediums, 200k sp2s, and 400k sp3s. There's no stopping him if there are no nodes against his abilities.
    Actually if you want to be technical, there are more things that counter Cull than Corvus/Ghost, especially Ghost.

    Ghost really doesn’t have any counters. Maw? Meh. Safeguard? Maybe.

    Cull? Buffet, masochism, fisticuffs, tranquility, limited immunity, (stun) immunity, limber, mighty charge, KP, AV, CB, Rogue and I’m sure there’s plenty of stuff I can’t even think of off the cuff.

    So who really needs the adjustment?
    Because those champs and nodes are in every single quest
    Manup456 said:

    It’s not developers have no clue, it’s they don’t see how these champs will interact with new content until they are released. I honestly think this 3 month period should happen in beta form like when buffs are applied to old champs.

    They should not release a champ and have people rank and spend then make the changes.

    It sounds good on paper but... that will slow down the release of new champs and hurt their monthly sales
    Actually yes and I’m glad you challenged me because I actually started realizing there’s more counters to him. Biohazard stops him cold. Rage, rapid metabolism, and even Taskmaster might be able to counter him if he doesn’t have many charges. Literally 5 of these paths out of 7 are in 3.2 of this month’s EQ and 1/7 isn’t noded so Cull is basically only useful for
    IDoge said:

    Here are the stats and they are... about equal! Shocking!



    Math doesn’t seem to be your strong suit because Cull’s block proficiency being ~18% lower is not close to “about equal”.
    Notice how I said about equal and not perfectly equal? They are very similar.
    18% is not really close in most aspects. It can be the difference between passing and failing....
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    poppapavo said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Dizzy said:

    at this point in the game, when they are in the basic, we should be able to safely decide that we are / are not going to invest resources in specific champions.

    It seems silly, but I'm starting to think that Kabam needs to provide a warning every time a player buys an offer, exchanges for a crystal, awakens or ranks a champion, or spends any money or currency on anything, that the game is subject to change at any time for balance, implementation, or any other reason, and the player should not take any action predicated on the assumption that the game won't change, because it will.

    Because there is no safe time to invest in resources. You are required to agree there is no safe time to invest resources. If you do not agree, and believe the players deserve to have a guarantee of safe periods to invest resources, you're legally not allowed to play the game.

    If this is something you feel you need, that's fine. Everyone needs different things from their entertainment. You shouldn't feel compelled to change your mind. But the EULA for the game you play requires you to agree. The EULA cannot force you to agree. But it prohibits you from playing the game if you don't agree.
    I’d wager Kabam prefers that the players who spend money on this game feel generally safe that their investments aren’t going to depreciate at any given moment. What you describe does not seem like a business model that would encourage more spending.
    What I'm describing is all MMOs everywhere, and it also describes this game from the moment it launched. For a business model that isn't supposed to encourage spending, it sure does get a lot of spending.
  • Options
    ZaddyV11ZaddyV11 Posts: 2
    And what if you absolutely mess up Cull Obsidian? What happens to the individuals that spent a nice chunk of change just to get this champ.. I’m assuming nothing
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    Mixalis said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mixalis said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Zuro said:

    Boa noite! Isto é um absurdo! Eu trabalho muito para aprimorar meus heróis! O Cull obsidian não pode ser nerfado! É um desrespeito com os players! O investimento realizado no campeão! Se isso ocorrer, analisarei a viabilidade de mover ação judicial contra a Kaban! Isso é um DESRESPEITO!!!

    Translation:Good night! This is absurd! I work hard to improve my heroes! Cull obsidian can't be nerfed! It's a disrespect for the players! The investment made in the champion! If this happens, I will consider the feasibility of filing a lawsuit against Kabam! This is a disrespect !!!
    Let me preview this lawsuit for those considering it.

    Lawyer: Player A, did you read the terms of service?
    Player A: Yes I did.
    Lawyer: Did you read the part under the section "Right to Modify" that says Kabam has the right to modify the service at any time?
    Player A: Yes, but that's not fair: I don't think that's right.
    Lawyer: So you disagree with that clause.
    Player A: Yes, I do.
    Lawyer: So you didn't agree to the terms of service, and you thus have no valid agreement to play the game. Why did you play the game if you didn't agree to all the terms of the agreement. That's theft of service.
    Player A: But they cheated me!
    Lawyer: How can they cheat someone who was stealing access to the service in the first place? You had no right to anything at all if you were stealing the service.

    The question of what's reasonable here is open for discussion. But for those who think *claiming* to be considering a lawsuit or *claiming* to be talking to a lawyer means anything, it doesn't. I doubt you could convince a lawyer to take the case, but if you happen to find a lawyer brave or crazy enough to do so, the first thing this lawyer will do is tell you to stop talking, because everything you say here on the forums or elsewhere can be collected by discovery and used against you. The only way you can demonstrate you're serious about attempting a lawsuit is to disappear. If you're still here, you're bluffing.
    One of the most common unenforceable terms is the unilateral amendment provision, which gives a company the right to change its agreement however it wants, whenever it wants, with or without notifying its customers. Courts have repeatedly found this term unenforceable.

    I don't believe suing is the right thing to do.
    We need to have a open conversation with Kabam and testing a champion before release should be exhausted.
    Unilateral amendment provisions are enforceable when notice is given, and the right to modify clause has been in there forever so you couldn't argue that this was a unilateral amendment sprung on anyone.

    But that's besides the point. As you say, a player could argue that the term or even the entire agreement is unenforceable. That makes it void. And my example follows your line of reasoning: by declaring the contract void, the player has no right to play the game anymore. The player cannot argue that the terms of service allow him or her to play the game, but its terms are not enforceable on them. Either they accept the TOS and accept the terms, or they walk away from the TOS and it no longer applies to them, but they also don't have the right to access the game.

    I agree suing is not the best avenue. I'm simply stating it is also ineffective, and the correct conversation should be on what's reasonable, not what's legal. The moment a player attempts to use the nuclear option, they are going to find they aren't actually the ones in possession of any of the nuclear weapons. All it does is give people the illusion they have leverage they don't actually have.

    We could be spending the time asking for more details about the nature of the issue with Cull, or discussing alternatives that the devs could consider. In the current climate, I'm not sure it would do anything, but there's always the next one, and the next one. There will be others. If the only thing that happens is a bunch of accusations and threats, all we're doing is shutting ourselves completely out of the loop. The developers currently working on Cull don't have to listen to us, and almost certainly aren't reading this thread. They might be persuaded to listen to interesting ideas they could actually use, if the discussion went that way. But I honestly think people enjoy complaining more than trying to improve things.

    To be frank, I think I would get better results if I wrote my thoughts on a postcard and sent it to Kabam's offices, than I would posting in the thread. It shouldn't be that way. The best place to focus feedback should be the forums, not the worst place.
    I agree they would void their rights to play this game, but their would be a negative precedent that follows and I don't believe Kabam wants this to happen.
    I'm not sure it would set a negative precedent that doesn't already exist, but if you're correct that Kabam doesn't want this to happen, that would encourage them to not sue a player, and they generally don't. They just kick them off the service. But if a player attempted to sue Kabam, Kabam would have no choice but to use this defense. They would most definitely not attempt to settle out of court. That would set a far worse precedent, not just for Kabam but for other game companies as well. You'd probably have the entire game industry pressuring Kabam to not settle.
  • Options
    CaykoCayko Posts: 111


    4 fights done in 3.2 time after time.

    Not a parry missed and like 2 inevitable block hits from routing.
  • Options
    G0311G0311 Posts: 913 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    G0311 said:

    After the knee jerk reaction left my body, I've realized a more logical way of thinking about this.
    I have a 5* rank 5 sig 184. Cull, I want to keep a cool head, because I will take a little less damage output ,only if I get a lot more block proficiency., cull's is pretty bad. I hope this ends up being more of a tweak than a nerf, I dont have much faith in kabam but there's no point in giving myself An aneurism. We will just have to wait and see. Too many knee jerk reactions from many, I do think we will have to be more cautious with our time, units, money and resources when going and ranking up new champs.

    Question, if he is so bad why did you take him to rank 5 sig 184. You should have known how bad he was long before you pumped all those resources into him.
    Did you read what I wrote?? I said his block proficiency was bad. Not the champ. I also said that I would be ok with the lowered damage out put in exchange for a much better block proficiency. I believe you are just trying to troll me. I will not be responding to any nonsense from trolls. So say what u want, go find someone else to bait a fight with 😄
  • Options
    CaykoCayko Posts: 111
    Oh I also did use him in variant.
    It was really fun but believe me it was an expensive way to play
  • Options
    slayer6slayer6 Posts: 377 ★★
    There would have to be some sort of way to get money back for spent crystals getting him, i havn’t spent but if you have id be seriously looking into messaging apple or someone because once they release and leave for a fair amount of time get people to spend then nerf. And even giving a ticket for the likes of she hulk you still didn’t get $ back some spent chasing her in crystals or the gold and iso
  • Options
    I don't argue changes much.. but here are my two cents on the Cull Obsidian changes:

    1. Block proficiency is bad.. for a character blocking with a shield.. it's abismal.
    2. Ramp up takes a lot of time. The first fight is useless and painful. Corvus ramp up makes sense because you can get a charge during the match itself. Even Morningstar works that way. The compensation for the ramp up effort is justifiable by the damage output.
    3. Balance needs to be across then. Increase Block proficiency, damage output by the energy can be a fair compensation IF AND ONLY IF the block damage values are justified.

    In isolation, you may consider a ramped up Cull dangerous. But with namor, corvus, ghost, omega red, all doing great damage without a ramp up... the promise of out damaging them may justify the utility of the champion.
  • Options
    BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 2,343 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    poppapavo said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Dizzy said:

    at this point in the game, when they are in the basic, we should be able to safely decide that we are / are not going to invest resources in specific champions.

    It seems silly, but I'm starting to think that Kabam needs to provide a warning every time a player buys an offer, exchanges for a crystal, awakens or ranks a champion, or spends any money or currency on anything, that the game is subject to change at any time for balance, implementation, or any other reason, and the player should not take any action predicated on the assumption that the game won't change, because it will.

    Because there is no safe time to invest in resources. You are required to agree there is no safe time to invest resources. If you do not agree, and believe the players deserve to have a guarantee of safe periods to invest resources, you're legally not allowed to play the game.

    If this is something you feel you need, that's fine. Everyone needs different things from their entertainment. You shouldn't feel compelled to change your mind. But the EULA for the game you play requires you to agree. The EULA cannot force you to agree. But it prohibits you from playing the game if you don't agree.
    I’d wager Kabam prefers that the players who spend money on this game feel generally safe that their investments aren’t going to depreciate at any given moment. What you describe does not seem like a business model that would encourage more spending.
    What I'm describing is all MMOs everywhere, and it also describes this game from the moment it launched. For a business model that isn't supposed to encourage spending, it sure does get a lot of spending.
    They do get a little tiny bit of mileage out of that Marvel license. That golden egg laying goose is quite strong. Their gaffes are annoying but not usually dealbreakers for most players. Even this is just annoying and makes me wish they would stop being Goofus for once. Their tactics are just so painful they've almost swung around to become art. Nearly everything is bad from statements to timing to public reasoning to quality assurance. At least everything customer facing. They could be performing acts of heroism bts to put out stuff this bad. God, that would be sad.
  • Options
    Justin2524Justin2524 Posts: 1,626 ★★★★
    Cayko said:



    4 fights done in 3.2 time after time.

    Not a parry missed and like 2 inevitable block hits from routing.

    OP
  • Options
    PHJfinPHJfin Posts: 60
    edited September 2019
    Ebony Maw's power steal is garbage. Opponent SHOULDN'T gain power from this attack. Now opponents don't have any negative effects from Ebony's heavy attack, as they gain as much power back, or even more.
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    DaMunkDaMunk Posts: 1,883 ★★★★
    PHJfin said:

    Ebony Maw's power steal is garbage. Opponent SHOULDN'T gain power from this attack. Now opponents don't have any negative effects from Ebony's heavy attack, as they gain as much power back, or even more.

    Yeah I'd like to see them lose a little bit more. Hopefully he will get a nice little buff. He's sort of fun to use but not very helpful. He could be a decent champ if the new numbers come out right.
  • Options
    Justin2524Justin2524 Posts: 1,626 ★★★★
    DaMunk said:

    PHJfin said:

    Ebony Maw's power steal is garbage. Opponent SHOULDN'T gain power from this attack. Now opponents don't have any negative effects from Ebony's heavy attack, as they gain as much power back, or even more.

    Yeah I'd like to see them lose a little bit more. Hopefully he will get a nice little buff. He's sort of fun to use but not very helpful. He could be a decent champ if the new numbers come out right.
    He is VERY fun to play. His animation is some of the best, ... all they really need to do is up his basic damage and maybe increase the degen on the specials and he'll be an above average champ.

    I for one am very excited to see what he can do.
  • Options
    DaMunkDaMunk Posts: 1,883 ★★★★

    DaMunk said:

    PHJfin said:

    Ebony Maw's power steal is garbage. Opponent SHOULDN'T gain power from this attack. Now opponents don't have any negative effects from Ebony's heavy attack, as they gain as much power back, or even more.

    Yeah I'd like to see them lose a little bit more. Hopefully he will get a nice little buff. He's sort of fun to use but not very helpful. He could be a decent champ if the new numbers come out right.
    He is VERY fun to play. His animation is some of the best, ... all they really need to do is up his basic damage and maybe increase the degen on the specials and he'll be an above average champ.

    I for one am very excited to see what he can do.
    Yeah I use him just for fun in the easier content because he's fun. I'm looking forward to his buff too.
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,355 ★★★★★
    Mixalis said:

    Mixalis said:

    Mixalis said:

    Harry_hzy said:

    Kabam is telling all the players:don't spend any money to this game. Whatever the money you spent, even you spent thousands dollars to get the champion you think who is beyond god tier champion, they can change it to trash if they want. I also think what they are doing is breach the agreement between customer and seller. Can you imaging when you bought a fast car, when you come to do service, the dealer tell you they think the car is too fast, they decide to change it to slower?

    There is no breach of agreement. One thing people generally fall short on is reading the TOS. You're not buying anything of proprietary value. The game, your Account, and the contents within are property of Kabam. We lease permission to use their product, and they reserve the right to modify it in cases where it's necessary for the game overall. If the game was to fold today, none of us would be able to cash out on our Accounts. It's In-Game Purchases. Not Shares in the company, and not a tangible purchase we can claim ownership for.
    You're wrong. When they announced She-Hulk's nerf days before the update, they already broke their tos. Read what I said to DNA3000
    They broke their TOS? Care to run that theory by me?
    One of the most common unenforceable terms is the unilateral amendment provision, which gives a company the right to change its agreement however it wants, whenever it wants, with or without notifying its customers. Courts have repeatedly found this term unenforceable. Look at companies lost because of this. I work at a large tech company and know a thing or two regarding tos, but like I already mentioned before, I'm not one that likes to sue and never will.
    NOTHING has been changed about the TOS concerning this. It's literally been the same for years. They revised it recently and that had nothing to do with reserving the right to modify their product. I'm quite aware. I've been pointing the thing out to people for years. Lol. While I respect the right to spend or not spend, there's no accounting for people who don't take the time to understand what they're spending on. The game even reminds them to familiarize themselves with it.
    You're going to sit their and tell me people in this game that spends tens of thousands of dollars won't find loopholes? I can't comment everything I wanted to say because I'm in kabam jail. It limits how many words I can write. Hundreds of cases have won regardless of tos. Ok, for example if they have the right to modify a champion, but then they must give back all the monies and resources spent and do far they have not. A rank down ticket doesn't cost thousands of dollars. Wake up.
    They haven't given money back. Their policy has been quite clear. Up until recently, there were NO refunds allowed. A loophole is what the negative balance has come from. Platforms were honoring those Refunds as a part of their own internal policies, and causing problems between themselves and Kabam. It is indeed fraudulent, regardless of how wronged someone feels. People want to argue for Refunds owing? Sure. They also run the risk of losing access to their Accounts. At least they did until recently. Now you can't make purchases until the balance is cleared. I'm unclear what you're debating, the legality of the TOS, or loopholes.....if you're arguing how the TOS will hold up, loopholes are not very sturdy in a Court of Law where the legality of it is everything.
  • Options
    Patchie93Patchie93 Posts: 1,898 ★★★★
    Midnite93 said:

    I am getting flashbacks of 12.0 really badly

    So 1 adjustment along with what 5 buffs is somehow comparable to 12.0? Considering no one currently knows the details of this adjustment that sounds like a pretty big stretch.

    This community cries wolf at every change yet if all their decisions were that bad I'm pretty sure the game wouldn't still be around and popular 4+ years later
  • Options
    RoninManRoninMan Posts: 747 ★★★★
    IDoge said:

    RoninMan said:

    IDoge said:

    RoninMan said:

    IDoge said:

    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:



    As someone who also spent to get Namor, Stelthy and Claire in addition to Cull I'm very worried that all that was just for a few months before they're nerfed.

    Yeah but they've told you that there'd be rebalancing right? It's on you as to whether you choose to spend the money going forward?

    Also don't forget that the good news is champs that aren't up to par like Ebony Maw are going to get a buff as well - so you do get that assurance on the other side of the spectrum.

    How can they be more transparent than that?
    What you said makes no sense @RagamugginGunner saI'd he spent for champs like Namor and they never announcedid these rebalances until after he came out so how is that fair in any way
    I said "going forward".
    Still doesn't change the fact that @RagamugginGunner paid for Namor expecting him to work as portrayed but now there is a chance he is gonna get nerfed so where is the transparency there
    There'll always be certain champs that fall through the cracks with these things, but the good news is that going forward rebalancing is good for the game overall.
    Yeah rebalances are nice if it's actually needed like why does Cull need he has no utility no health and no block proficiency all he has is damage and they are gonna nerf the only thing he is good at for what reason and not even that he has his fair share of counters to like limber,masochism, fisticuffs, etc.
    The thing is, without his counters, he simply outputed way too much damage. 50k mediums, 200k sp2s, and 400k sp3s. There's no stopping him if there are no nodes against his abilities.
    Actually if you want to be technical, there are more things that counter Cull than Corvus/Ghost, especially Ghost.

    Ghost really doesn’t have any counters. Maw? Meh. Safeguard? Maybe.

    Cull? Buffet, masochism, fisticuffs, tranquility, limited immunity, (stun) immunity, limber, mighty charge, KP, AV, CB, Rogue and I’m sure there’s plenty of stuff I can’t even think of off the cuff.

    So who really needs the adjustment?
    Because those champs and nodes are in every single quest
    Manup456 said:

    It’s not developers have no clue, it’s they don’t see how these champs will interact with new content until they are released. I honestly think this 3 month period should happen in beta form like when buffs are applied to old champs.

    They should not release a champ and have people rank and spend then make the changes.

    It sounds good on paper but... that will slow down the release of new champs and hurt their monthly sales
    Actually yes and I’m glad you challenged me because I actually started realizing there’s more counters to him. Biohazard stops him cold. Rage, rapid metabolism, and even Taskmaster might be able to counter him if he doesn’t have many charges. Literally 5 of these paths out of 7 are in 3.2 of this month’s EQ and 1/7 isn’t noded so Cull is basically only useful for 1-2 paths whereas Corvus and Ghost really couldn’t care less. His counters are everywhere. 5/6 of the quests contain counters to him
    Lol I like how you said rage and then brought up corvus lol. Have you forgotten you can also... back up and hold block for a rout buff? He can still outdamage most champs in stun immune/limber fights if he is at 10 charges with rout buff. If you think his armor break is his key damage output then maybe they will just put a cap on it for all we know
    You got me. I said rage and brought in Corvus and Ghost. So now my entire argument is invalid. Good job. You must be the debate champion of your middle school.

    Point still remains that Cull has far more counters than Corvus or Ghost.
This discussion has been closed.