If cull is not useful in most content, why rank him up tho To all those saying you have r2 or r5 cull Doesn't that mean you use him often if you ranked him up?
It's a regular model for heroes with high attack to have low hp or block proficiency like wasp, stark, rocket etc Every champ has a limiting factor and cull's is reliance on parry similar to hyperion and ramp up time. Not gonna add lack of immunities as not all champs have immunities
I am curious as to what change they'll make So guys with a r5 cull, take screenshots for future comparison
☝🏼 Coming from someone salty they didn’t have him yet so don’t care and have their chance to be “level headed”.... c’mon now. Feel free to C your way out of the conversation. They specifically didn’t change him until all the avenues to purchase him were finished. Not like they did it after one round of cavaliers... they waited till all the pay avenues were finished bub. C’mon now. 😉
So let me get this straight. The new policy of Kabam is to release a champion people can acquire through luck, money, and or time, then use the next few months to collect data using the players using them in the live version of the game, then adjust the champions there after? Not to mention shards wasted attempting for these heroes in featured crystals. Do you guys have any idea how unethical and irresponsible this is?
Honestly, they haven't even started the rework yet (presumably), and people are going off the wall. All we know is the data has shown that his Damage is higher than any other Champ, so that will most likely change. We don't know how much, we don't know what else will come, all we know is he's changing. Is anyone else waiting to see, or are we all on fire? Lol.
Data, how about actually playing the game first and see for yourself?. Also they wrote the data, so how could that be a surprise?.
I play the game. Yes, they wrote the data. They also examine it to see if it's where they want it to be. That's the other part of the job.
🙄 you play the game at a lower level ( most people are discussing cull and end game content
Honestly, they haven't even started the rework yet (presumably), and people are going off the wall. All we know is the data has shown that his Damage is higher than any other Champ, so that will most likely change. We don't know how much, we don't know what else will come, all we know is he's changing. Is anyone else waiting to see, or are we all on fire? Lol.
Data, how about actually playing the game first and see for yourself?. Also they wrote the data, so how could that be a surprise?.
I play the game. Yes, they wrote the data. They also examine it to see if it's where they want it to be. That's the other part of the job.
The issue with the data is it’s taken from everywhere including easier endgame content, it screws the numbers for the truly difficult content, and all the other balance changes have mostly been around endgame content, by using early content in the numbers it means the data doesn’t show how he performs in difficult content, which is what champs should be balanced around, I’m 100% sure that the data isn’t exclusively difficult content, and for balancing like this it should be, easier content can be done with any good champ
Champs should be balanced, and are balanced, with all areas in mind. Not End-Game alone. The game houses many different levels of progress, and doesn't revolve around one demographic. In terms of the data, the data shows what it does, and analyzing it takes into account the scale of where it's taken from. Bottom line is, if they say it's too much, it's too much. We can't argue that any more than we can argue the sky is yellow.
Show your profile to people. I don't think you understand or even play this game given how you're on 24*7 defending Kabam. People spent real world money on Cull and they have every right to demand it back even if Cull's damage is reduced by 1. Your opinion is not needed on every thread. Also you're most hated person in MCOC history.
I'm not posting my Profile. People have thrown it around enough regardless, and it has nothing to do with the topic. I've spent real world money on the game myself. Sorry, but none of us have the right to demand it back. We don't purchase for ownership. We rent permission to use their product. Everything, right down to the Champ people are arguing about, belongs to them. Also, I've been aware of the latter fact for years. If you think it's news, it's not. I certainly haven't earned that status intentionally, or on purpose, but it also doesn't hurt my feelings either. It's a game. We're discussing a game, on a Forum, with people who are presumably adults. At least the majority. It's not my fault people choose to make it personal.
We don’t need to see whizz’s profile we all know he plays at a low level and he once bought a loot bag. 🥴
We're discussing changes to Cull. Not just the upper crust. Discussions aren't dominated by End-Game. You're also wrong about the low level and Loot Bag bit.
The discussion about the nerf should be around the endgame though, since that’s what’s affected the most, they said something along the lines of this nerf is for future content, future content is generally harder than current content, content like act 5 besides a few fights only really needs a hard hitter, but act 6 and beyond will require specific counters, and this nerf is apparently so future content doesn’t have to be designed to stop a couple champs, so yes not everyone here is on 6.2, but you can’t say your progress in the game has nothing to do with it since if you aren’t at the endgame level content you wouldn’t know how full is in said content
No. Conversations about End-Game revolve around End-Game. Conversations about changes to Champs revolve around the Champs. One Player demographic does not represent the entire game.
Spent $400 just on Cull Featured crystals last month..
Feeling cheated..
Seriously?? Champ nerf after 6 months..
No more spending(may be for sigil)..No more featured crystals as those champs might be "balanced" or "Tuned" after 3 months based on the gameplay collected data(sometimes after 6 months). No point in spending/grinding for these champs.
So the best tip of the day is....... DON’T SPEND MONEY ON CRYSTALS OR FEAT CHAMPS, as they are just beta testing for 3-6 months thats the only way kabam will stop this bs nerf stuff all the time
Why not just make champs that can counter balance those champs rather than constantly nerfing champs?
When you have a Champion that wildly outdamages other Champions, and we start making content to counter that specific Champion, this harshly punishes every other Champion in game, and every Summoner that does not have that Champion.
There's junk like that already in the game. Ever heard of safeguard? Or rage? Or even spiked armor? Yeah, I didn't think so. You guys already know how to make content that punishes high dps so don't give us that bs
I know there will be a lot of questions about Rank Down Tickets and Compensation for changes, and there already are some. As a reminder, we did say that we will approach these on a case by case basis, and will not be able to make any comments on this yet, because we don't know what Cull's balance pass will look like at all yet.
Also, remember that these changes are restricted to Tuning updates, and are will not change any abilities or utility. Our intention is that if you love your Champion now, you should still love them after.
Please dont speculate what individuals think and do. Base your projects and changes on facts and not speculation.
Oh, please. You know full well people are going to be petitioning for Tickets.
You're bloody right they are. And completely deserving of them too.
I have mine as r5 and I think is pretty decent the way it is now, but if u planning to nerf him I want my rank down tickets like everybody’s get with she hulk
Then give me back all the units i spend on Cull crystals, not your little compensations!!!! Only sake of him spent about 10,000 units. And you’re going to ruin it!!!
Be interesting to see the “data” on how many times this company offered featured cull cavs since his release. Would venture to guess it would be a lot higher then other champs in that same period. Wonder why?
at this point in the game, when they are in the basic, we should be able to safely decide that we are / are not going to invest resources in specific champions.
It seems silly, but I'm starting to think that Kabam needs to provide a warning every time a player buys an offer, exchanges for a crystal, awakens or ranks a champion, or spends any money or currency on anything, that the game is subject to change at any time for balance, implementation, or any other reason, and the player should not take any action predicated on the assumption that the game won't change, because it will.
Because there is no safe time to invest in resources. You are required to agree there is no safe time to invest resources. If you do not agree, and believe the players deserve to have a guarantee of safe periods to invest resources, you're legally not allowed to play the game.
If this is something you feel you need, that's fine. Everyone needs different things from their entertainment. You shouldn't feel compelled to change your mind. But the EULA for the game you play requires you to agree. The EULA cannot force you to agree. But it prohibits you from playing the game if you don't agree.
Or here’s a novel idea: test your stuff before you sell it. Play your own game. And if even moderately testing content is too onerous, then provide a liberal return/refund policy and stop treating the community with condescension.
Dr. Zola
You say "or" as if this contradicts what I said. It does not. I'm not saying there isn't lots of room for improvement, but the absolute best game development team with the absolute best respec policy a game can sustain is still not going to provide the poster I was replying to with "safety." There will still be the possibility of future game balance changes that won't be compensated for, because there's no way to prevent completely future balancing changes, and there's no way to completely allow do-overs for every little change in a sustainable way. I don't think most players even understand what the real danger of RDTs even is in this game, even when used sparingly, much less making it the go-to answer for all future game changes.
You can do everything you're mentioning, and still not be safe. Safe from game changes is impossible. And I'm willing to be proven wrong, if someone can find a game that adheres to your two principles of test so mistakes never happen and games never need balancing, and/or compensate for every change to the extent players demand in all cases.
At the end of the day, if you think safety is possible, I doubt I could convince you otherwise. However, absent a very persuasive argument, at the end of the day I believe we doom any attempt to improve matters when we make the ultimate goal an impossible task.
I don’t think “100% safe” is possible, nor should it be.
But this far enough from safe to border on destabilizing.
Honestly, they haven't even started the rework yet (presumably), and people are going off the wall. All we know is the data has shown that his Damage is higher than any other Champ, so that will most likely change. We don't know how much, we don't know what else will come, all we know is he's changing. Is anyone else waiting to see, or are we all on fire? Lol.
Data, how about actually playing the game first and see for yourself?. Also they wrote the data, so how could that be a surprise?.
I play the game. Yes, they wrote the data. They also examine it to see if it's where they want it to be. That's the other part of the job.
🙄 you play the game at a lower level ( most people are discussing cull and end game content
Honestly, they haven't even started the rework yet (presumably), and people are going off the wall. All we know is the data has shown that his Damage is higher than any other Champ, so that will most likely change. We don't know how much, we don't know what else will come, all we know is he's changing. Is anyone else waiting to see, or are we all on fire? Lol.
Data, how about actually playing the game first and see for yourself?. Also they wrote the data, so how could that be a surprise?.
I play the game. Yes, they wrote the data. They also examine it to see if it's where they want it to be. That's the other part of the job.
The issue with the data is it’s taken from everywhere including easier endgame content, it screws the numbers for the truly difficult content, and all the other balance changes have mostly been around endgame content, by using early content in the numbers it means the data doesn’t show how he performs in difficult content, which is what champs should be balanced around, I’m 100% sure that the data isn’t exclusively difficult content, and for balancing like this it should be, easier content can be done with any good champ
Champs should be balanced, and are balanced, with all areas in mind. Not End-Game alone. The game houses many different levels of progress, and doesn't revolve around one demographic. In terms of the data, the data shows what it does, and analyzing it takes into account the scale of where it's taken from. Bottom line is, if they say it's too much, it's too much. We can't argue that any more than we can argue the sky is yellow.
Show your profile to people. I don't think you understand or even play this game given how you're on 24*7 defending Kabam. People spent real world money on Cull and they have every right to demand it back even if Cull's damage is reduced by 1. Your opinion is not needed on every thread. Also you're most hated person in MCOC history.
I'm not posting my Profile. People have thrown it around enough regardless, and it has nothing to do with the topic. I've spent real world money on the game myself. Sorry, but none of us have the right to demand it back. We don't purchase for ownership. We rent permission to use their product. Everything, right down to the Champ people are arguing about, belongs to them. Also, I've been aware of the latter fact for years. If you think it's news, it's not. I certainly haven't earned that status intentionally, or on purpose, but it also doesn't hurt my feelings either. It's a game. We're discussing a game, on a Forum, with people who are presumably adults. At least the majority. It's not my fault people choose to make it personal.
We don’t need to see whizz’s profile we all know he plays at a low level and he once bought a loot bag. 🥴
We're discussing changes to Cull. Not just the upper crust. Discussions aren't dominated by End-Game. You're also wrong about the low level and Loot Bag bit.
The discussion about the nerf should be around the endgame though, since that’s what’s affected the most, they said something along the lines of this nerf is for future content, future content is generally harder than current content, content like act 5 besides a few fights only really needs a hard hitter, but act 6 and beyond will require specific counters, and this nerf is apparently so future content doesn’t have to be designed to stop a couple champs, so yes not everyone here is on 6.2, but you can’t say your progress in the game has nothing to do with it since if you aren’t at the endgame level content you wouldn’t know how full is in said content
if nobody uses him at the end game how does it affect the end game?
The real issue, for me, is deliberate release of overpowered champions. The CCP people, general public saw that Cull can do this type of damage within 2 days.
But I need to have a memory of a goldfish to claim that Cull is the first one in that list. When I started playing the game in October of 2015, I asked my alliance "Were they drunk when they released Dr Strange and Scarlet Witch?". Then came 12.0 and I thought they are sincere with balancing the game. But then came Blade and it was all about Blade for a good few months. This was followed by quite a few champions who are bonkers when compared to an average balanced champs.
So, I am actually in favour of nerfs. But I am not in favour of this egregious practice of selling brokenly overpowered champs and then claiming after 3-6 months that "oh we thought they were balanced and only the data showed that they were broken". This only says two things a. either your testing team is absolutely useless if they could not see Cull's damage right off the bat or b. this is an intended cycle just to sell more crystals. I can't put my thumb on which one it is but both are bad choices.
As usual, well-considered and well-said @Haji_Saab ...
Let me guess they'll be looking to make "changes" to Namor next since he clearly out burst every one else and he's Hydro-kinetic Armor is too Powerful/ not working as intended.
Yet another instance of Kabam moving the goal posts after the game has started...! You release a champ to the CCP, they make videos hyping people on upcoming champs, people spend real money to get a champ, Kabam "rebalance" the champ now they have everyone's money.
You guys really are doing your best to alienate every single one of your paying customers. Utterly atrocious business ethics.
Be interesting to see the “data” on how many times this company offered featured cull cavs since his release. Would venture to guess it would be a lot higher then other champs in that same period. Wonder why?
To really gather the data, re-release the cull fgmc and see what the sales look like. It's the timing of this that really bothers me, not the rebalancing itself.
Nobody wants the game to get out of balance with one champ crushing everything. But that's why this game is an arms race, and when a new weapon comes out that looks really, really strong, people pour money and resources into trying to obtain and then rank them up right away. The game is designed to be this way, which is fine, but that makes this move all the more troublesome.
Why not under power them at release and then tweak them upwards if needed? Because sales would fall flat. It just seems disingenuous right now, right after the crystals were just for sale.
Should probably affect future sales, you vote with your dollars.
@Lormif how doesn’t that create balance? It’s exactly what they are doing now but it wouldn’t cost users money or resources.
Having the champs tested before release and collecting this data is a benefit to all. Kabam can change champs as they feel is needed and stops these threads 🤷🏻♂️
Fanboys who love sticking up for Kabam when they are wrong please understand they are not going to send you special rewards 🤣
How doesnt what create balance? Youy didnt quote me, therefore I have no idea what you are talking about.
What I can say is that I never talked about something not creating balance. I can state that I never mentioned testing creating or not creating balance in any way, what I did state is that there is no amount of testing that can find all bugs, or all balance isues in the game. This is just a fact.
It is also amusing you think people who are defending this are "fanboys who love sticking up for kabam when they are wrong". I am someone who quit over the 12.0 nerf, not because the nerf was unwarranted, it was, but because of how they handled it. I am arguing on a matter of logic, you are arguing on a matter of emotion, hence your incoherent argument in which you attack me me directly.
Will we be getting our MONEY back on that Cull Obsidian downgrade as well? We used real money to buy the offers and crystals to get him after watching what he could do.
If cull is not useful in most content, why rank him up tho To all those saying you have r2 or r5 cull Doesn't that mean you use him often if you ranked him up?
No I have quite a few ranked champs that I don't use regularly. I also have 15 R5s and 5 R2s though. At that point ranking up niche champs you'll rarely use but can occasionally be useful or that you just think are fun makes sense
Comments
kabam joke with me
after buy crystal and rank up the champion
you want editing the champion
To all those saying you have r2 or r5 cull
Doesn't that mean you use him often if you ranked him up?
Every champ has a limiting factor and cull's is reliance on parry similar to hyperion and ramp up time.
Not gonna add lack of immunities as not all champs have immunities
I am curious as to what change they'll make
So guys with a r5 cull, take screenshots for future comparison
🐻
Feeling cheated..
Seriously?? Champ nerf after 6 months..
No more spending(may be for sigil)..No more featured crystals as those champs might be "balanced" or "Tuned" after 3 months based on the gameplay collected data(sometimes after 6 months). No point in spending/grinding for these champs.
DON’T SPEND MONEY ON CRYSTALS OR FEAT CHAMPS, as they are just beta testing for 3-6 months thats the only way kabam will stop this bs nerf stuff all the time
Dpx or hulkbuster or cyclops or jane foster just 3 of many to name
Cull now.. who is next? Corvus? Ghost? Kabam is losing the plot!!
But this far enough from safe to border on destabilizing.
Dr. Zola
Dr. Zola
You guys really are doing your best to alienate every single one of your paying customers. Utterly atrocious business ethics.
Nobody wants the game to get out of balance with one champ crushing everything. But that's why this game is an arms race, and when a new weapon comes out that looks really, really strong, people pour money and resources into trying to obtain and then rank them up right away. The game is designed to be this way, which is fine, but that makes this move all the more troublesome.
Why not under power them at release and then tweak them upwards if needed? Because sales would fall flat. It just seems disingenuous right now, right after the crystals were just for sale.
Should probably affect future sales, you vote with your dollars.
What I can say is that I never talked about something not creating balance. I can state that I never mentioned testing creating or not creating balance in any way, what I did state is that there is no amount of testing that can find all bugs, or all balance isues in the game. This is just a fact.
It is also amusing you think people who are defending this are "fanboys who love sticking up for kabam when they are wrong". I am someone who quit over the 12.0 nerf, not because the nerf was unwarranted, it was, but because of how they handled it. I am arguing on a matter of logic, you are arguing on a matter of emotion, hence your incoherent argument in which you attack me me directly.