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Upcoming Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw Balance Changes

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  • UnknownUnknown
    edited September 2019
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  • UnknownUnknown
    edited September 2019
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  • Justin2524Justin2524 Member Posts: 1,626 ★★★★
    Siliyo said:

    Japam12345 said:

    But you knew some of the recent champs were going to be re-evaluated right? Kabam announced this last month.

    You do realize Cull was released in May 2019, they said 3 months after a champion’s release and BEFORE they enter the basic pool. Guess what? It’s been 4 months and Cull is in the crystal pool.
    Yeah but they did say it'll take 3 months for the changes to take effect right? So 3+3=6 month. You should ideally wait 6 months before using a generic 5* awakening gem on him.

    A generic 5* awakening gem is so rare why take the risk?

    You can't blame Kabam for making an impulsive decision.
  • New_Noob168New_Noob168 Member Posts: 1,596 ★★★★
    I bet knowing Kabam the data about Cull that they are making their decision on includes when he was doing massive damage 6 weeks ago or so. They fixed that already. Just saying they are the brightest when figuring out this stuff for periods of time.
  • Cam77778888Cam77778888 Member Posts: 113 ★
    If you must lower cull damage.... increase his block profiency like crazy. Having to hold block to get route is painful with his low block prof
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  • Bill0927Bill0927 Member Posts: 39 ★
    edited September 2019
    This whole thing seems very shady to me but face it everyone kabam doesn’t care hence the lack of official response to anything written in here. They will continue to do what they want when they want as they can because it’s there game only thing we can do anymore is wait until their beta test(use playing these champs is over) to rank new champs it sucks that it comes to this but clearly that is what kabam wants if they are going to adjust champs as they see fit fine but I won’t waste any money or resources getting new champs makes a lot more sense to wit until they are “balanced” and put in the basic pool. It sucks but that is the current state of the game
  • gp87gp87 Member Posts: 325 ★★★
    Japam12345 said:

    Siliyo said:

    Japam12345 said:

    But you knew some of the recent champs were going to be re-evaluated right? Kabam announced this last month.

    You do realize Cull was released in May 2019, they said 3 months after a champion’s release and BEFORE they enter the basic pool. Guess what? It’s been 4 months and Cull is in the crystal pool.
    Yeah but they did say it'll take 3 months for the changes to take effect right? So 3+3=6 month. You should ideally wait 6 months before using a generic 5* awakening gem on him.

    A generic 5* awakening gem is so rare why take the risk?

    You can't blame Kabam for making an impulsive decision.
    What are you saying? Cull was out before deals of 4th july .. we didnt even know then for champs nerfs and tweaks. The owners of cull, like me, we use all the deals with real money at cull obsdidian, because we knew he was the best damage dealer in the game.

    They should tweak only champs that came out after their announcement.

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  • PassingThroughPassingThrough Member Posts: 3 ★
    Lormif...in multiple posts you iterate this is about overall game balance, but in one of your latest you imply justification to this proposed late nerf by drawing attention to unforeseen interactions in 6.2 and season 10. Is this about overall game balance or end game? How did accrued data from these 2 areas change the perception and application of cull? And what in 6.2 makes him game breaking other than a global node that applies to all champs? This is a joke.
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    r3dy said:

    Lormif said:

    r3dy said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    r3dy said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Beyond00_ said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Honestly, they haven't even started the rework yet (presumably), and people are going off the wall. All we know is the data has shown that his Damage is higher than any other Champ, so that will most likely change. We don't know how much, we don't know what else will come, all we know is he's changing. Is anyone else waiting to see, or are we all on fire? Lol.

    Data, how about actually playing the game first and see for yourself?. Also they wrote the data, so how could that be a surprise?.
    I play the game. Yes, they wrote the data. They also examine it to see if it's where they want it to be. That's the other part of the job.
    Yeah but they have to see it before release, its call quality assurance and testing
    It's impossible to analyze data before a release. The data is what shows how they perform(ed). Past Tense. If you mean they should find all problems before they release, the game would never go live. Testing won't prevent issues from coming up.
    quite the opposite, most of the issues in any product are solved before release, base on the data that was gathered during testing, and i dont mean "all problems", but damage can easily be tested. If you are going to tell me that kabam doesn't know what the damage will be of champions they are releasing, then that shows how poorly is the testing process (if there is any...), users are not doing anything "weird" with cull to get the crazy damage, they are just using the champions as it was design
    they have an idea, but ideas can be wrong. Again you need 1000 poins of data from every type of interaction to get a statistically relevant idea on how they work.
    You don't get "ideas" from the data, or you know how it will be on average (or in specific situations) or you don't know cuz you don't have the data. And, of course, a lot of data will be necessary, and that is completely possible to obtain, what most people dont get is that developers do not need to play the game to collect data, they can run thousands of simulated situations by simply running the algorithms and see what the output would be in different situations
    Can they run algorithms? yes, but that does not simulate real world interactions.
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  • Stockpile_000Stockpile_000 Member Posts: 22 ★
    I am super glad to have pulled a 5 star Cul Obsidian (was not cheap), also just recently used precious ressources and took him up to rank 4 so.. am kinda not looking forward to changes that will reduce his damage output. Would rather see him made able to take more punches..
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 20,097 Guardian
    cdubby_22 said:

    @DNA3000 12.1 did address almost everything that the community wanted it to address, even the nerfs were soften to happy medium. Thor - could place 2 armor breaks instead of just the one, SW - the nerfed regen was drastically improved, poor Dr. Strange still sucked. The major issues were the block deficiency, 12.0 WS in ROL would wipe people out with a blocked sp2. The original challenger rating in 12.0 did effect things like parry for different rarities which was changed and they removed the additional attributes like block penetration etc. To say they didnt change the things that we said would kill the game is really in my opinion wrong. there was loud screams about the nerfs but the hard core players knew SW was to powerful, of course we werent spending 300 units to try to get her on a featured crystal on weekly basis back then it was just luck of the draw mostly. If we were spending that, we would have been a lot more upset. The changes in 12.0 were worse than the the champions being nerfed and the changes that they wanted to make didnt happen or were changed otherwise it would have killed the game.

    There's a ton of misinformation to unpack here. But I'm going to focus on just one. The most important thing that changed about Thor wasn't actually in Thor himself: 12.0 changed the way armor break itself worked. In the past it worked multiplicatively, and when it was converted to flat stats it automatically started working linearly. In other words, if we roughly round off the armor break strength to approximately 100% originally, Thor's armor breaks in 11.x worked like this: 2x, 4x, 8x, 16x, 32x. That's how he was able to stack up damage so high so fast. In 12.x his armor breaks were turned into negative armor effects that stacked linearly: 1x, 2x, 3x, etc. This alone drastically reduced the effectiveness of Thor's armor breaks, and no amount of stacking could ever return it to its original effectiveness. Eliminating the stacking was just an additional reduction on top of that.

    The devs hit Thor twice: once in eliminating stacking, and again in changing how armor break itself worked (this affected other champs that used armor break as well, which was discussed on the forums). The first change was really overkill in the presence of the second change, which is why Kabam softened it.

    (Note: that's not how armor break works now. Its changed several times since then, and now it seems to be affected by DR whereas originally it was not).

    Basically, Kabam was able to give back one stack of armor break because armor break itself was neutered. This was something most players didn't seem to notice or understand at the time.

    As to the rest, I should point out even if you don't believe CR had no effect on Parry (it did not), they very obviously didn't eliminate block penetration or the other attributes added in 12.0 like critical resistance, and explicitly *stated* that they didn't eliminate block penetration. What they did was roll back all the block penetration buffs they gave to a wide range of champions in 12.0, but they kept the stat and said they would use it in future champions, which they did.
  • mcofnycmcofnyc Member Posts: 28 ★
    No more spending on crystals for me
  • SDPSDP Member Posts: 1,622 ★★★★
    Back when he first was introduced I decided to drop a few hundred and go for him as a very cool niche champ. I loved his look, his animations, his sound, his damage potential and as a counter to the Variant evade drone. I play with him from time to time, but I run suicides, and there’s always a better option. I had no delusions about him as a game destroyer. Some quests or content he destroys very impressively, but many champs do that. Ever run Ronan on a resistor path? That’s fun for the whole family. That he is now being described as such annoys me, but it’s also kinda funny/sad. It’s the same old rhetoric you hear when you watch the news, see advertisements, etc. To some, it is remarkably unsubtle and manipulative, but over and over again the myopic majority take what they are fed.
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  • AleorAleor Member Posts: 3,113 ★★★★★
    edited September 2019
    MCOC Team said:

    Summoners,

    Ebony Maw:

    You said it and we saw it in the data. Although Ebony Maw is a decent Defender, he is underperforming as an Attacker (the designer said something about his Degeneration DPS being just sad and wrong).

    We are looking to boost both his defensive and offensive potential, but with an emphasis on offense.

    I don't know anyone who likes that degeneration, and it's not because of it's not strong enough, it's because of its existence. Like Dorms degen, but worse. He's already very annoying with his miss, adding "fun and interactive" damage doesn't make it any fun.

    Btw, how is dorm after md nerf on defance? I've got an idea, make up some node like "immune to damage if there was no buff expiration last 10 seconds", would be just great! No
This discussion has been closed.