Upcoming Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw Balance Changes

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Comments

  • AleorAleor Posts: 2,791 ★★★★
    edited September 2019
    MCOC Team said:

    Summoners,

    Ebony Maw:

    You said it and we saw it in the data. Although Ebony Maw is a decent Defender, he is underperforming as an Attacker (the designer said something about his Degeneration DPS being just sad and wrong).

    We are looking to boost both his defensive and offensive potential, but with an emphasis on offense.

    I don't know anyone who likes that degeneration, and it's not because of it's not strong enough, it's because of its existence. Like Dorms degen, but worse. He's already very annoying with his miss, adding "fun and interactive" damage doesn't make it any fun.

    Btw, how is dorm after md nerf on defance? I've got an idea, make up some node like "immune to damage if there was no buff expiration last 10 seconds", would be just great! No
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,382 ★★★★★
    Harry_hzy said:

    the 2,3 people like Lormif stop fighting for kabam, maybe you work for kabam, I don’t know. Your guys may still don’t understand why we are upset and disappointed? It is not about one champion nerf, or how to test or the data thing. It is about kabam is trying so hard to screw themselves and destroy this game. Players like me, why we disagree this idea? Because we like this game, we don’t want to see players abandon this game because kabam’s stupid decision. This decision is ridiculers, the one in kabam who made this decision is 100% no business sense. They are trying to make players know all the money we spend is for nothing. Players paid money for THAT CHAMPION KABAM SHOW TO US. Show some respect to the players, listen what we think and what we want.

    Just the opposite actually. They're not trying to destroy it. They're keeping it going. We do understand why people are upset. No one to the best of my knowledge has made the argument that people shouldn't feel a certain way. While I can't speak for anyone else, my point is there are things which are necessary for the health of the game. Those must be resolved. For that matter, there's no guarantee that a Champion will be the same as when you acquire them for the duration of the game, ever. In fact, they make the very clear stipulation that they have the right to modify their product whenever necessary.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,382 ★★★★★
    DrZola said:

    Harry_hzy said:

    the 2,3 people like Lormif stop fighting for kabam, maybe you work for kabam, I don’t know. Your guys may still don’t understand why we are upset and disappointed? It is not about one champion nerf, or how to test or the data thing. It is about kabam is trying so hard to screw themselves and destroy this game. Players like me, why we disagree this idea? Because we like this game, we don’t want to see players abandon this game because kabam’s stupid decision. This decision is ridiculers, the one in kabam who made this decision is 100% no business sense. They are trying to make players know all the money we spend is for nothing. Players paid money for THAT CHAMPION KABAM SHOW TO US. Show some respect to the players, listen what we think and what we want.

    Just the opposite actually. They're not trying to destroy it. They're keeping it going. We do understand why people are upset. No one to the best of my knowledge has made the argument that people shouldn't feel a certain way. While I can't speak for anyone else, my point is there are things which are necessary for the health of the game. Those must be resolved. For that matter, there's no guarantee that a Champion will be the same as when you acquire them for the duration of the game, ever. In fact, they make the very clear stipulation that they have the right to modify their product whenever necessary.
    I keep hearing this phrase: “health of the game.”

    What exactly does that mean?

    I ask because I believe a rapid hype-to-nerf cycle is far more detrimental to the game than anything Cull Obsidian could ever do.

    Dr. Zola
    It means if something is game breaking, exploitative, imbalanced in a way that it has subsequent side-effects, or detrimental in a way that will cause problems further down the road, it's a problem. The health of the game is a very ubiquitous statement, and it means "What's best for the game.". Which isn't necessarily what people want, but something that needs to be resolved. Without decisions like that, the game doesn't survive, and at the very least lapses into a much more broken state than anyone has seen thus far. Yep. That's what I said. Lol.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,382 ★★★★★
    edited September 2019
    As much as people think the game has been broken at times, I don't think they quite understand the degree of which it could be much worse, or the effect of just leaving things that are detrimental because people like them. Doing that over time would result in a catastrophic mess.
  • Suros_moonSuros_moon Posts: 118
    IKON said:

    IKON said:



    How did you guys not see this coming?

    Cull was out about 6 months before that announcement buddy.
    And? People were jumping for joy when the HT and Annihlus announcement came, when they should have known this was going to happen too.
    Notice how yoy conviniently crossed out anothee thing they lied about: "Before theyre in the basic pool"
  • DshuDshu Posts: 1,422 ★★★★

    As much as people think the game has been broken at times, I don't think they quite understand the degree of which it could be much worse, or the effect of just leaving things that are detrimental because people like them. Doing that over time would result in a catastrophic mess.

    While I agree with game balances like the shehulk nerf or whatever people want to call it where I disagree is with how these are done. Kabam hyped shehulk and a player who beat the champion with a low level version. If not for that hype many would not have ranked her. Then they throw a 1 line comment in the patch notes about fixing her after she has preformed this way since her release. Why not just say they have seen how this mechanic has been abused and are closing a loophole on the forum. Be transparent.
    The changes to champ descriptions. Well they either said they were working on a fix or ignored threads before saying we don't feel a need to change the champ we are changing the description. Again say you are looking at data to see if this ability would be op from the start.
    Now this balance issue. They released multiple crystals (which they made bank off of ) then drop a rebalancing thread.
    Things like these have given players a sense of mistrust towards the game team. There has also been a few mod posts that have come across as a bit snarky lately in threads as well as the removal of threads and posts that have added to the player base feeling the company really doesn't care about the player base. Players are feeling like they cant trust anything in the game or the kabam voices (mods) on the forums
  • Harry_hzyHarry_hzy Posts: 22

    Harry_hzy said:

    the 2,3 people like Lormif stop fighting for kabam, maybe you work for kabam, I don’t know. Your guys may still don’t understand why we are upset and disappointed? It is not about one champion nerf, or how to test or the data thing. It is about kabam is trying so hard to screw themselves and destroy this game. Players like me, why we disagree this idea? Because we like this game, we don’t want to see players abandon this game because kabam’s stupid decision. This decision is ridiculers, the one in kabam who made this decision is 100% no business sense. They are trying to make players know all the money we spend is for nothing. Players paid money for THAT CHAMPION KABAM SHOW TO US. Show some respect to the players, listen what we think and what we want.

    Just the opposite actually. They're not trying to destroy it. They're keeping it going. We do understand why people are upset. No one to the best of my knowledge has made the argument that people shouldn't feel a certain way. While I can't speak for anyone else, my point is there are things which are necessary for the health of the game. Those must be resolved. For that matter, there's no guarantee that a Champion will be the same as when you acquire them for the duration of the game, ever. In fact, they make the very clear stipulation that they have the right to modify their product whenever necessary.

    see, you still don’t understand. What is the health game you are keep saying? I think more player want to spend money, then kabam can make money, then maybe they wants to use some profit to develop this game, that is health game. If most players don’t spend money anymore or abandon this game, what is the point of balance or game health
  • StarhawkStarhawk Posts: 392 ★★
    I just found out about this. what the hell. In this situation there is no way rank down tickets are going to be enough. I cant remember how much real world money i spent trying to get Cull (which i never did other than a 4* which i decided to max out since i couldn't pull the 5* after many tries) but it was more than any other openings i have done so it was north of 6000 units.

    Kabam is going to have to be careful on how they deal with this situation as a lot of people including me could quit over how this is all handled. Rank down tickets are not going to be close to enough. It doesnt matter what champs i pulled when i tried to go for him. The point is I never would have spent anywhere close to that much money if it wasn't for the kind of champ I thought I had a chance at getting.

    so ya....best of luck Kabam
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,382 ★★★★★
    Harry_hzy said:

    Harry_hzy said:

    the 2,3 people like Lormif stop fighting for kabam, maybe you work for kabam, I don’t know. Your guys may still don’t understand why we are upset and disappointed? It is not about one champion nerf, or how to test or the data thing. It is about kabam is trying so hard to screw themselves and destroy this game. Players like me, why we disagree this idea? Because we like this game, we don’t want to see players abandon this game because kabam’s stupid decision. This decision is ridiculers, the one in kabam who made this decision is 100% no business sense. They are trying to make players know all the money we spend is for nothing. Players paid money for THAT CHAMPION KABAM SHOW TO US. Show some respect to the players, listen what we think and what we want.

    Just the opposite actually. They're not trying to destroy it. They're keeping it going. We do understand why people are upset. No one to the best of my knowledge has made the argument that people shouldn't feel a certain way. While I can't speak for anyone else, my point is there are things which are necessary for the health of the game. Those must be resolved. For that matter, there's no guarantee that a Champion will be the same as when you acquire them for the duration of the game, ever. In fact, they make the very clear stipulation that they have the right to modify their product whenever necessary.

    see, you still don’t understand. What is the health game you are keep saying? I think more player want to spend money, then kabam can make money, then maybe they wants to use some profit to develop this game, that is health game. If most players don’t spend money anymore or abandon this game, what is the point of balance or game health
    If they don't resolve problems that will break the game down the road, there isn't anything left to spend on. The health of the game isn't about money.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,382 ★★★★★
    Dshu said:

    As much as people think the game has been broken at times, I don't think they quite understand the degree of which it could be much worse, or the effect of just leaving things that are detrimental because people like them. Doing that over time would result in a catastrophic mess.

    While I agree with game balances like the shehulk nerf or whatever people want to call it where I disagree is with how these are done. Kabam hyped shehulk and a player who beat the champion with a low level version. If not for that hype many would not have ranked her. Then they throw a 1 line comment in the patch notes about fixing her after she has preformed this way since her release. Why not just say they have seen how this mechanic has been abused and are closing a loophole on the forum. Be transparent.
    The changes to champ descriptions. Well they either said they were working on a fix or ignored threads before saying we don't feel a need to change the champ we are changing the description. Again say you are looking at data to see if this ability would be op from the start.
    Now this balance issue. They released multiple crystals (which they made bank off of ) then drop a rebalancing thread.
    Things like these have given players a sense of mistrust towards the game team. There has also been a few mod posts that have come across as a bit snarky lately in threads as well as the removal of threads and posts that have added to the player base feeling the company really doesn't care about the player base. Players are feeling like they cant trust anything in the game or the kabam voices (mods) on the forums
    There's already a Thread open on the subject. They were either removed or merged because that's their job on the Forum. They wouldn't be if people would read the rules and post according to those.
  • ZuroZuro Posts: 2,023 ★★★★★

    Harry_hzy said:

    Harry_hzy said:

    the 2,3 people like Lormif stop fighting for kabam, maybe you work for kabam, I don’t know. Your guys may still don’t understand why we are upset and disappointed? It is not about one champion nerf, or how to test or the data thing. It is about kabam is trying so hard to screw themselves and destroy this game. Players like me, why we disagree this idea? Because we like this game, we don’t want to see players abandon this game because kabam’s stupid decision. This decision is ridiculers, the one in kabam who made this decision is 100% no business sense. They are trying to make players know all the money we spend is for nothing. Players paid money for THAT CHAMPION KABAM SHOW TO US. Show some respect to the players, listen what we think and what we want.

    Just the opposite actually. They're not trying to destroy it. They're keeping it going. We do understand why people are upset. No one to the best of my knowledge has made the argument that people shouldn't feel a certain way. While I can't speak for anyone else, my point is there are things which are necessary for the health of the game. Those must be resolved. For that matter, there's no guarantee that a Champion will be the same as when you acquire them for the duration of the game, ever. In fact, they make the very clear stipulation that they have the right to modify their product whenever necessary.

    see, you still don’t understand. What is the health game you are keep saying? I think more player want to spend money, then kabam can make money, then maybe they wants to use some profit to develop this game, that is health game. If most players don’t spend money anymore or abandon this game, what is the point of balance or game health
    If they don't resolve problems that will break the game down the road, there isn't anything left to spend on. The health of the game isn't about money.
    Cull won't break the game down the road he would probably last like 2 fight before you have to revive him
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,382 ★★★★★
    Zuro said:

    Harry_hzy said:

    Harry_hzy said:

    the 2,3 people like Lormif stop fighting for kabam, maybe you work for kabam, I don’t know. Your guys may still don’t understand why we are upset and disappointed? It is not about one champion nerf, or how to test or the data thing. It is about kabam is trying so hard to screw themselves and destroy this game. Players like me, why we disagree this idea? Because we like this game, we don’t want to see players abandon this game because kabam’s stupid decision. This decision is ridiculers, the one in kabam who made this decision is 100% no business sense. They are trying to make players know all the money we spend is for nothing. Players paid money for THAT CHAMPION KABAM SHOW TO US. Show some respect to the players, listen what we think and what we want.

    Just the opposite actually. They're not trying to destroy it. They're keeping it going. We do understand why people are upset. No one to the best of my knowledge has made the argument that people shouldn't feel a certain way. While I can't speak for anyone else, my point is there are things which are necessary for the health of the game. Those must be resolved. For that matter, there's no guarantee that a Champion will be the same as when you acquire them for the duration of the game, ever. In fact, they make the very clear stipulation that they have the right to modify their product whenever necessary.

    see, you still don’t understand. What is the health game you are keep saying? I think more player want to spend money, then kabam can make money, then maybe they wants to use some profit to develop this game, that is health game. If most players don’t spend money anymore or abandon this game, what is the point of balance or game health
    If they don't resolve problems that will break the game down the road, there isn't anything left to spend on. The health of the game isn't about money.
    Cull won't break the game down the road he would probably last like 2 fight before you have to revive him
    Who's to say what will and will not break the game? Only them. They're the ones with the goals, the data, and the experience on this particular game. I was speaking in the general sense, not necessarily saying he's going to break the game. Having a Champ that does much more Damage than other Top Champs has an effect later on. One that creates much more work for them, and less balance for the rest of us.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,382 ★★★★★
    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:

    Harry_hzy said:

    Harry_hzy said:

    the 2,3 people like Lormif stop fighting for kabam, maybe you work for kabam, I don’t know. Your guys may still don’t understand why we are upset and disappointed? It is not about one champion nerf, or how to test or the data thing. It is about kabam is trying so hard to screw themselves and destroy this game. Players like me, why we disagree this idea? Because we like this game, we don’t want to see players abandon this game because kabam’s stupid decision. This decision is ridiculers, the one in kabam who made this decision is 100% no business sense. They are trying to make players know all the money we spend is for nothing. Players paid money for THAT CHAMPION KABAM SHOW TO US. Show some respect to the players, listen what we think and what we want.

    Just the opposite actually. They're not trying to destroy it. They're keeping it going. We do understand why people are upset. No one to the best of my knowledge has made the argument that people shouldn't feel a certain way. While I can't speak for anyone else, my point is there are things which are necessary for the health of the game. Those must be resolved. For that matter, there's no guarantee that a Champion will be the same as when you acquire them for the duration of the game, ever. In fact, they make the very clear stipulation that they have the right to modify their product whenever necessary.

    see, you still don’t understand. What is the health game you are keep saying? I think more player want to spend money, then kabam can make money, then maybe they wants to use some profit to develop this game, that is health game. If most players don’t spend money anymore or abandon this game, what is the point of balance or game health
    If they don't resolve problems that will break the game down the road, there isn't anything left to spend on. The health of the game isn't about money.
    Cull won't break the game down the road he would probably last like 2 fight before you have to revive him
    Who's to say what will and will not break the game? Only them. They're the ones with the goals, the data, and the experience on this particular game. I was speaking in the general sense, not necessarily saying he's going to break the game. Having a Champ that does much more Damage than other Top Champs has an effect later on. One that creates much more work for them, and less balance for the rest of us.
    Kabam has still never disclosed what too much damage is because from what I've seen Cull ain't the only Champ who can hit extremely high numbers so what are they even getting at here let alone of his weakness like fisticuffs, limber, bleed, poison, etc.
    Apparently, they have disclosed that too much is what he's doing, and that's a comparative analysis towards what others do. As to whether that's too much total, or too much too fast, I'm unsure.
  • ZuroZuro Posts: 2,023 ★★★★★

    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:

    Harry_hzy said:

    Harry_hzy said:

    the 2,3 people like Lormif stop fighting for kabam, maybe you work for kabam, I don’t know. Your guys may still don’t understand why we are upset and disappointed? It is not about one champion nerf, or how to test or the data thing. It is about kabam is trying so hard to screw themselves and destroy this game. Players like me, why we disagree this idea? Because we like this game, we don’t want to see players abandon this game because kabam’s stupid decision. This decision is ridiculers, the one in kabam who made this decision is 100% no business sense. They are trying to make players know all the money we spend is for nothing. Players paid money for THAT CHAMPION KABAM SHOW TO US. Show some respect to the players, listen what we think and what we want.

    Just the opposite actually. They're not trying to destroy it. They're keeping it going. We do understand why people are upset. No one to the best of my knowledge has made the argument that people shouldn't feel a certain way. While I can't speak for anyone else, my point is there are things which are necessary for the health of the game. Those must be resolved. For that matter, there's no guarantee that a Champion will be the same as when you acquire them for the duration of the game, ever. In fact, they make the very clear stipulation that they have the right to modify their product whenever necessary.

    see, you still don’t understand. What is the health game you are keep saying? I think more player want to spend money, then kabam can make money, then maybe they wants to use some profit to develop this game, that is health game. If most players don’t spend money anymore or abandon this game, what is the point of balance or game health
    If they don't resolve problems that will break the game down the road, there isn't anything left to spend on. The health of the game isn't about money.
    Cull won't break the game down the road he would probably last like 2 fight before you have to revive him
    Who's to say what will and will not break the game? Only them. They're the ones with the goals, the data, and the experience on this particular game. I was speaking in the general sense, not necessarily saying he's going to break the game. Having a Champ that does much more Damage than other Top Champs has an effect later on. One that creates much more work for them, and less balance for the rest of us.
    Kabam has still never disclosed what too much damage is because from what I've seen Cull ain't the only Champ who can hit extremely high numbers so what are they even getting at here let alone of his weakness like fisticuffs, limber, bleed, poison, etc.
    Apparently, they have disclosed that too much is what he's doing, and that's a comparative analysis towards what others do. As to whether that's too much total, or too much too fast, I'm unsure.
    There is no way it's too much too fast since there are way more other Champs that can get extremely high numbers way faster than Cull and even in total he is similar to numerous Champs like namor, nick fury, domino, or even hela I wouldnt say he out damages any of them as all of them share similar numbers damage wise
  • Harry_hzyHarry_hzy Posts: 22

    Harry_hzy said:

    Harry_hzy said:

    the 2,3 people like Lormif stop fighting for kabam, maybe you work for kabam, I don’t know. Your guys may still don’t understand why we are upset and disappointed? It is not about one champion nerf, or how to test or the data thing. It is about kabam is trying so hard to screw themselves and destroy this game. Players like me, why we disagree this idea? Because we like this game, we don’t want to see players abandon this game because kabam’s stupid decision. This decision is ridiculers, the one in kabam who made this decision is 100% no business sense. They are trying to make players know all the money we spend is for nothing. Players paid money for THAT CHAMPION KABAM SHOW TO US. Show some respect to the players, listen what we think and what we want.

    Just the opposite actually. They're not trying to destroy it. They're keeping it going. We do understand why people are upset. No one to the best of my knowledge has made the argument that people shouldn't feel a certain way. While I can't speak for anyone else, my point is there are things which are necessary for the health of the game. Those must be resolved. For that matter, there's no guarantee that a Champion will be the same as when you acquire them for the duration of the game, ever. In fact, they make the very clear stipulation that they have the right to modify their product whenever necessary.

    see, you still don’t understand. What is the health game you are keep saying? I think more player want to spend money, then kabam can make money, then maybe they wants to use some profit to develop this game, that is health game. If most players don’t spend money anymore or abandon this game, what is the point of balance or game health
    If they don't resolve problems that will break the game down the road, there isn't anything left to spend on. The health of the game isn't about money.

    There are hundreds thousands way to rebalance the game without hurt the players who spend lots of money to get and rank up new champions. This is not about one cull nerf, it is the way how kabam to solve the problem. How many people have this champion? How many of them use cull everyday every fight? If this is the way kabam solve the issue, there will be no one spend money. Cull nerf before for the bug, everyone understand, so there is no complaints and no argument, but this time is different. This time is Kabam told us, we didn’t test properly, so your guys just wasted hundreds thousands dollar, we don’t care. We use the most simple way to “fix” our mistake. For the players spend lots of money, you are just stupid, everyone shouldn’t spend money anymore, this kind of mistake may happen frequently later. You don’t know what the champions you are buying. That is why players disappointed and angry.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,382 ★★★★★
    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:

    Harry_hzy said:

    Harry_hzy said:

    the 2,3 people like Lormif stop fighting for kabam, maybe you work for kabam, I don’t know. Your guys may still don’t understand why we are upset and disappointed? It is not about one champion nerf, or how to test or the data thing. It is about kabam is trying so hard to screw themselves and destroy this game. Players like me, why we disagree this idea? Because we like this game, we don’t want to see players abandon this game because kabam’s stupid decision. This decision is ridiculers, the one in kabam who made this decision is 100% no business sense. They are trying to make players know all the money we spend is for nothing. Players paid money for THAT CHAMPION KABAM SHOW TO US. Show some respect to the players, listen what we think and what we want.

    Just the opposite actually. They're not trying to destroy it. They're keeping it going. We do understand why people are upset. No one to the best of my knowledge has made the argument that people shouldn't feel a certain way. While I can't speak for anyone else, my point is there are things which are necessary for the health of the game. Those must be resolved. For that matter, there's no guarantee that a Champion will be the same as when you acquire them for the duration of the game, ever. In fact, they make the very clear stipulation that they have the right to modify their product whenever necessary.

    see, you still don’t understand. What is the health game you are keep saying? I think more player want to spend money, then kabam can make money, then maybe they wants to use some profit to develop this game, that is health game. If most players don’t spend money anymore or abandon this game, what is the point of balance or game health
    If they don't resolve problems that will break the game down the road, there isn't anything left to spend on. The health of the game isn't about money.
    Cull won't break the game down the road he would probably last like 2 fight before you have to revive him
    Who's to say what will and will not break the game? Only them. They're the ones with the goals, the data, and the experience on this particular game. I was speaking in the general sense, not necessarily saying he's going to break the game. Having a Champ that does much more Damage than other Top Champs has an effect later on. One that creates much more work for them, and less balance for the rest of us.
    Kabam has still never disclosed what too much damage is because from what I've seen Cull ain't the only Champ who can hit extremely high numbers so what are they even getting at here let alone of his weakness like fisticuffs, limber, bleed, poison, etc.
    Apparently, they have disclosed that too much is what he's doing, and that's a comparative analysis towards what others do. As to whether that's too much total, or too much too fast, I'm unsure.
    There is no way it's too much too fast since there are way more other Champs that can get extremely high numbers way faster than Cull and even in total he is similar to numerous Champs like namor, nick fury, domino, or even hela I wouldnt say he out damages any of them as all of them share similar numbers damage wise
    I mean we can argue ad nauseam that he isn't really that strong, but they obviously have the numbers to prove it, and we know many people Ranked him for the very same reasons, so all evidence points to the data being accurate.
  • DaMunkDaMunk Posts: 1,874 ★★★★
    I've been thinking about this. If they want his top damage, when he has 10 charges and armor breaks, to be in line with other champs they are going to either hit his damage significantly or his armor breaks significantly. A 10 percent reduction with his attack won't do much. I mean really if they take 250k damage down to 210k damage is that really helping anything? So if the neuter his armor breaks or Cap the limit that's a pretty big change. I hope they don't ruin him completely.
  • ZuroZuro Posts: 2,023 ★★★★★

    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:

    Harry_hzy said:

    Harry_hzy said:

    the 2,3 people like Lormif stop fighting for kabam, maybe you work for kabam, I don’t know. Your guys may still don’t understand why we are upset and disappointed? It is not about one champion nerf, or how to test or the data thing. It is about kabam is trying so hard to screw themselves and destroy this game. Players like me, why we disagree this idea? Because we like this game, we don’t want to see players abandon this game because kabam’s stupid decision. This decision is ridiculers, the one in kabam who made this decision is 100% no business sense. They are trying to make players know all the money we spend is for nothing. Players paid money for THAT CHAMPION KABAM SHOW TO US. Show some respect to the players, listen what we think and what we want.

    Just the opposite actually. They're not trying to destroy it. They're keeping it going. We do understand why people are upset. No one to the best of my knowledge has made the argument that people shouldn't feel a certain way. While I can't speak for anyone else, my point is there are things which are necessary for the health of the game. Those must be resolved. For that matter, there's no guarantee that a Champion will be the same as when you acquire them for the duration of the game, ever. In fact, they make the very clear stipulation that they have the right to modify their product whenever necessary.

    see, you still don’t understand. What is the health game you are keep saying? I think more player want to spend money, then kabam can make money, then maybe they wants to use some profit to develop this game, that is health game. If most players don’t spend money anymore or abandon this game, what is the point of balance or game health
    If they don't resolve problems that will break the game down the road, there isn't anything left to spend on. The health of the game isn't about money.
    Cull won't break the game down the road he would probably last like 2 fight before you have to revive him
    Who's to say what will and will not break the game? Only them. They're the ones with the goals, the data, and the experience on this particular game. I was speaking in the general sense, not necessarily saying he's going to break the game. Having a Champ that does much more Damage than other Top Champs has an effect later on. One that creates much more work for them, and less balance for the rest of us.
    Kabam has still never disclosed what too much damage is because from what I've seen Cull ain't the only Champ who can hit extremely high numbers so what are they even getting at here let alone of his weakness like fisticuffs, limber, bleed, poison, etc.
    Apparently, they have disclosed that too much is what he's doing, and that's a comparative analysis towards what others do. As to whether that's too much total, or too much too fast, I'm unsure.
    There is no way it's too much too fast since there are way more other Champs that can get extremely high numbers way faster than Cull and even in total he is similar to numerous Champs like namor, nick fury, domino, or even hela I wouldnt say he out damages any of them as all of them share similar numbers damage wise
    I mean we can argue ad nauseam that he isn't really that strong, but they obviously have the numbers to prove it, and we know many people Ranked him for the very same reasons, so all evidence points to the data being accurate.
    Those numbers are irrelevant when you put Cull in a realistic situation no way he is destroying Champs in act 6. All they do is analyze the numbers but not the situations that he is in so it's not a fair evaluation
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,382 ★★★★★
    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:

    Harry_hzy said:

    Harry_hzy said:

    the 2,3 people like Lormif stop fighting for kabam, maybe you work for kabam, I don’t know. Your guys may still don’t understand why we are upset and disappointed? It is not about one champion nerf, or how to test or the data thing. It is about kabam is trying so hard to screw themselves and destroy this game. Players like me, why we disagree this idea? Because we like this game, we don’t want to see players abandon this game because kabam’s stupid decision. This decision is ridiculers, the one in kabam who made this decision is 100% no business sense. They are trying to make players know all the money we spend is for nothing. Players paid money for THAT CHAMPION KABAM SHOW TO US. Show some respect to the players, listen what we think and what we want.

    Just the opposite actually. They're not trying to destroy it. They're keeping it going. We do understand why people are upset. No one to the best of my knowledge has made the argument that people shouldn't feel a certain way. While I can't speak for anyone else, my point is there are things which are necessary for the health of the game. Those must be resolved. For that matter, there's no guarantee that a Champion will be the same as when you acquire them for the duration of the game, ever. In fact, they make the very clear stipulation that they have the right to modify their product whenever necessary.

    see, you still don’t understand. What is the health game you are keep saying? I think more player want to spend money, then kabam can make money, then maybe they wants to use some profit to develop this game, that is health game. If most players don’t spend money anymore or abandon this game, what is the point of balance or game health
    If they don't resolve problems that will break the game down the road, there isn't anything left to spend on. The health of the game isn't about money.
    Cull won't break the game down the road he would probably last like 2 fight before you have to revive him
    Who's to say what will and will not break the game? Only them. They're the ones with the goals, the data, and the experience on this particular game. I was speaking in the general sense, not necessarily saying he's going to break the game. Having a Champ that does much more Damage than other Top Champs has an effect later on. One that creates much more work for them, and less balance for the rest of us.
    Kabam has still never disclosed what too much damage is because from what I've seen Cull ain't the only Champ who can hit extremely high numbers so what are they even getting at here let alone of his weakness like fisticuffs, limber, bleed, poison, etc.
    Apparently, they have disclosed that too much is what he's doing, and that's a comparative analysis towards what others do. As to whether that's too much total, or too much too fast, I'm unsure.
    There is no way it's too much too fast since there are way more other Champs that can get extremely high numbers way faster than Cull and even in total he is similar to numerous Champs like namor, nick fury, domino, or even hela I wouldnt say he out damages any of them as all of them share similar numbers damage wise
    I mean we can argue ad nauseam that he isn't really that strong, but they obviously have the numbers to prove it, and we know many people Ranked him for the very same reasons, so all evidence points to the data being accurate.
    Those numbers are irrelevant when you put Cull in a realistic situation no way he is destroying Champs in act 6. All they do is analyze the numbers but not the situations that he is in so it's not a fair evaluation
    The numbers aren't irrelevant at all. That's the very gauge they're using. What you're saying is he's not too much because you can't use him for one piece of content. Not at all what this is about. This is about the fact that he's out damaging any other Champ among the Top.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,382 ★★★★★

    Harry_hzy said:

    the 2,3 people like Lormif stop fighting for kabam, maybe you work for kabam, I don’t know. Your guys may still don’t understand why we are upset and disappointed? It is not about one champion nerf, or how to test or the data thing. It is about kabam is trying so hard to screw themselves and destroy this game. Players like me, why we disagree this idea? Because we like this game, we don’t want to see players abandon this game because kabam’s stupid decision. This decision is ridiculers, the one in kabam who made this decision is 100% no business sense. They are trying to make players know all the money we spend is for nothing. Players paid money for THAT CHAMPION KABAM SHOW TO US. Show some respect to the players, listen what we think and what we want.

    Just the opposite actually. They're not trying to destroy it. They're keeping it going. We do understand why people are upset. No one to the best of my knowledge has made the argument that people shouldn't feel a certain way. While I can't speak for anyone else, my point is there are things which are necessary for the health of the game. Those must be resolved. For that matter, there's no guarantee that a Champion will be the same as when you acquire them for the duration of the game, ever. In fact, they make the very clear stipulation that they have the right to modify their product whenever necessary.
    This approach (disclaimer included), in your opinion, is an effective model in terms of inspiring confidence in players to work hard for rewards, spend money on offers for rank up materials, and dedicate countless hours in order to progress by ranking up champs in a game that may suddenly change and undermine your dedication to it at any moment?

    Or is it your stance that it is the player’s fault for trying to progress at all, and being upset when that progress is inhibited to some degree? After all, there is a disclaimer.

    You subscribe to this model in favor of the “health” of the game.

    There’s a major contradiction in here. I’ll let you discover it if you are willing.

    “We do understand why people are upset”

    Intriguing choice of pronoun.
    Yes. We being the people who aren't wielding pitchforks. I'm not going to continually affirm that I don't work for Kabam so that old accusation can die.
    Care to take a shot at answering the question?
    Transparency is about building trust. They've been transparent. People can conjecture that they knew all along and sold the Crystal's anyway, yadda yadda yadda, but as far as we can see, they're letting us know 3 months in advance. Building trust is about honesty. Not bending to our will. Sorry to say, but there are some decisions that will have to come to pass whether people want them to or not.
    They already sold their product lmao
    That's right. Just like they sold it all along, with every change that was necessary. Selling Items and Champs isn't going to prevent them from making decisions that are for the future of the game. Tell me, how long do you think the game would survive if they just left every problem because people paid to use it?
    Except it isnt a problem...and if you wanna change a problem due to a mistake you made then provide the correct compensation.
    They haven't even changed anything yet. Much less looked at what they're going to do. All we have is a notice in the name of being upfront that some kind of change will be made. That's it.
This discussion has been closed.