Upcoming Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw Balance Changes

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Comments

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,516 ★★★★★
    Then again, data takes time to collect so maybe not.
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 540 ★★★

    Just a question, but why are newer champions being reworked before older, worse champions?

    MCOC Team said:

    Summoners,

    The next two Champions to get the rebalance treatment will be Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw. These balance updates will be limited to the tuning and balancing of a Champion's existing kit, abilities won’t be added or removed.

    Ronin:

    We’ve taken a look at Ronin’s performance and are happy with his both his performance and his abilities. We will not be making any balance changes to Ronin at this time.

    Cull Obsidian:

    After looking at our data across all the game modes we have determined that Cull Obsidian is out damaging every other high-damage Champion in the game. While he does have his limiting factors, once he's fully ramped up he is able to end fights before even high-level Opponents can do any meaningful damage to him.

    The goal of Cull’s rebalance is to make tuning changes that keeps Cull Obsidian as one of the top damage dealers in-game.

    Ebony Maw:

    You said it and we saw it in the data. Although Ebony Maw is a decent Defender, he is underperforming as an Attacker (the designer said something about his Degeneration DPS being just sad and wrong).

    We are looking to boost both his defensive and offensive potential, but with an emphasis on offense.

    Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw’s balance changes should be live in approximately 3 months.

    These aren't reworks in the formal sense from what I understand. They're minor balances. Older Champs will require more of a rework like Colossus and OML. They're quite intensive, and I suspect preventing that much work is part of the reason they're revisiting newer ones to fill in any gaps and tweak any noticeable issues.
    Since when did minor anything take six months to implement? Especially if you're just addressing damage. You take away Cull's armor breaks and that is a totally different champion. Minor in my opinion will be taking his attack down a couple hundred points, they might even remove his the potency of his sig ability which causes him to have incredible burst damage, who knows.
    If the only thing on their plate was this, I'm sure it wouldn't take as long. Letting us know ahead of time is just being upfront. Just about everything in the game has a process before it makes it's way to our hands.
    I disagree with them being upfront due to Cull being in the basic during the announcement but we've gone back and forth before and neither one of our minds will be changed at this point.

    And as you said data takes time to collect. We agree on that so since the data has been collected already what would justify the need to actually implement the changes in 6 months if it is truly minor. I would say Namor had minor updates due to him being able to defeat map 7 Thanos in one shot and they implemented the change in about 4 days. It took a day to remove the interaction from Namor and 4 more days to fix the bugs that came with the first update.
  • Nick_Caine_32Nick_Caine_32 Posts: 449 ★★★
    Akhilxcx said:

    Just a question, but why are newer champions being reworked before older, worse champions?

    MCOC Team said:

    Summoners,

    The next two Champions to get the rebalance treatment will be Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw. These balance updates will be limited to the tuning and balancing of a Champion's existing kit, abilities won’t be added or removed.

    Ronin:

    We’ve taken a look at Ronin’s performance and are happy with his both his performance and his abilities. We will not be making any balance changes to Ronin at this time.

    Cull Obsidian:

    After looking at our data across all the game modes we have determined that Cull Obsidian is out damaging every other high-damage Champion in the game. While he does have his limiting factors, once he's fully ramped up he is able to end fights before even high-level Opponents can do any meaningful damage to him.

    The goal of Cull’s rebalance is to make tuning changes that keeps Cull Obsidian as one of the top damage dealers in-game.

    Ebony Maw:

    You said it and we saw it in the data. Although Ebony Maw is a decent Defender, he is underperforming as an Attacker (the designer said something about his Degeneration DPS being just sad and wrong).

    We are looking to boost both his defensive and offensive potential, but with an emphasis on offense.

    Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw’s balance changes should be live in approximately 3 months.

    These aren't reworks in the formal sense from what I understand. They're minor balances. Older Champs will require more of a rework like Colossus and OML. They're quite intensive, and I suspect preventing that much work is part of the reason they're revisiting newer ones to fill in any gaps and tweak any noticeable issues.
    Since when did minor anything take six months to implement? Especially if you're just addressing damage. You take away Cull's armor breaks and that is a totally different champion. Minor in my opinion will be taking his attack down a couple hundred points, they might even remove his the potency of his sig ability which causes him to have incredible burst damage, who knows.
    If the only thing on their plate was this, I'm sure it wouldn't take as long. Letting us know ahead of time is just being upfront. Just about everything in the game has a process before it makes it's way to our hands.
    gamora's buff was never on their plate during she hulk and spidergwen buffs but they still did an amazing job with that buff. so don't assume that kabam can't rework or rebalance in a specific time period.
    Good point. I miss the days when each month would have a little buff, even if it was just animation/special attack changes. Quite a few characters got that treatment - hulk, punisher, winter soldier come to mind immediately but there's others. Many of the "meme tier" characters in the game right now would be better with even just ONE little change or added ability. Like, say for instance, adding the nerf to magneto and ant man back in the game. Those were unnecessary and didn't make sense at the time, and they could only stand to help them now. Especially since many of these characters are in the six star crystal, for as much time and effort as it takes to get one of those, they should have priority sooner in my opinion. Gamora's buff wasn't a ton of work or changes but made her at least decent and viable for some content. Something similar to characters like Netflix daredevil, iron patriot, magneto, literally so many characters would be an awesome thing to do for the player base.

    Instead we seem to be "balancing" characters that don't need it and the timelines for the reworks keep getting stretched further and further out. Last year had more complete reworks than this year and it's sad to see that urgency slipping.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,516 ★★★★★
    The game has never had a time where each month had a little buff.
    Akhilxcx said:

    Just a question, but why are newer champions being reworked before older, worse champions?

    MCOC Team said:

    Summoners,

    The next two Champions to get the rebalance treatment will be Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw. These balance updates will be limited to the tuning and balancing of a Champion's existing kit, abilities won’t be added or removed.

    Ronin:

    We’ve taken a look at Ronin’s performance and are happy with his both his performance and his abilities. We will not be making any balance changes to Ronin at this time.

    Cull Obsidian:

    After looking at our data across all the game modes we have determined that Cull Obsidian is out damaging every other high-damage Champion in the game. While he does have his limiting factors, once he's fully ramped up he is able to end fights before even high-level Opponents can do any meaningful damage to him.

    The goal of Cull’s rebalance is to make tuning changes that keeps Cull Obsidian as one of the top damage dealers in-game.

    Ebony Maw:

    You said it and we saw it in the data. Although Ebony Maw is a decent Defender, he is underperforming as an Attacker (the designer said something about his Degeneration DPS being just sad and wrong).

    We are looking to boost both his defensive and offensive potential, but with an emphasis on offense.

    Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw’s balance changes should be live in approximately 3 months.

    These aren't reworks in the formal sense from what I understand. They're minor balances. Older Champs will require more of a rework like Colossus and OML. They're quite intensive, and I suspect preventing that much work is part of the reason they're revisiting newer ones to fill in any gaps and tweak any noticeable issues.
    Since when did minor anything take six months to implement? Especially if you're just addressing damage. You take away Cull's armor breaks and that is a totally different champion. Minor in my opinion will be taking his attack down a couple hundred points, they might even remove his the potency of his sig ability which causes him to have incredible burst damage, who knows.
    If the only thing on their plate was this, I'm sure it wouldn't take as long. Letting us know ahead of time is just being upfront. Just about everything in the game has a process before it makes it's way to our hands.
    gamora's buff was never on their plate during she hulk and spidergwen buffs but they still did an amazing job with that buff. so don't assume that kabam can't rework or rebalance in a specific time period.
    Do you know how long they were considering it?

    Just a question, but why are newer champions being reworked before older, worse champions?

    MCOC Team said:

    Summoners,

    The next two Champions to get the rebalance treatment will be Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw. These balance updates will be limited to the tuning and balancing of a Champion's existing kit, abilities won’t be added or removed.

    Ronin:

    We’ve taken a look at Ronin’s performance and are happy with his both his performance and his abilities. We will not be making any balance changes to Ronin at this time.

    Cull Obsidian:

    After looking at our data across all the game modes we have determined that Cull Obsidian is out damaging every other high-damage Champion in the game. While he does have his limiting factors, once he's fully ramped up he is able to end fights before even high-level Opponents can do any meaningful damage to him.

    The goal of Cull’s rebalance is to make tuning changes that keeps Cull Obsidian as one of the top damage dealers in-game.

    Ebony Maw:

    You said it and we saw it in the data. Although Ebony Maw is a decent Defender, he is underperforming as an Attacker (the designer said something about his Degeneration DPS being just sad and wrong).

    We are looking to boost both his defensive and offensive potential, but with an emphasis on offense.

    Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw’s balance changes should be live in approximately 3 months.

    These aren't reworks in the formal sense from what I understand. They're minor balances. Older Champs will require more of a rework like Colossus and OML. They're quite intensive, and I suspect preventing that much work is part of the reason they're revisiting newer ones to fill in any gaps and tweak any noticeable issues.
    Since when did minor anything take six months to implement? Especially if you're just addressing damage. You take away Cull's armor breaks and that is a totally different champion. Minor in my opinion will be taking his attack down a couple hundred points, they might even remove his the potency of his sig ability which causes him to have incredible burst damage, who knows.
    If the only thing on their plate was this, I'm sure it wouldn't take as long. Letting us know ahead of time is just being upfront. Just about everything in the game has a process before it makes it's way to our hands.
    I disagree with them being upfront due to Cull being in the basic during the announcement but we've gone back and forth before and neither one of our minds will be changed at this point.

    And as you said data takes time to collect. We agree on that so since the data has been collected already what would justify the need to actually implement the changes in 6 months if it is truly minor. I would say Namor had minor updates due to him being able to defeat map 7 Thanos in one shot and they implemented the change in about 4 days. It took a day to remove the interaction from Namor and 4 more days to fix the bugs that came with the first update.
    3 months to collect the data, at least. Then time to consider changes and test, implement, retest....
    Things take time.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 6,453 ★★★★★

    Lvernon15 said:

    Maybe Cull will turn out much better after being tuned if he can gain significant sustainability at the cost of some damage, but this uncertainty is not good at all for the game.

    A rank five with suicides at 10 charges could do ~450k+ sp3 damage. That's a lot, but he was unusable in most areas and damage was his only utility.

    At the highest levels, nobody used him in Alliance War or Alliance Quest, or in Labyrinth or many lanes in Act 6. Cull was very niche. No immunities, no sustainability, and only worked under a very specific set of conditions: can he parry opponents, inflict armor breaks, and proc his own buffs? No to a lot of that.

    Procing his own buffs (rout/thanos' favors): buffet, fisticuffs, pilfer, tranquility

    Being able to parry: limber, stun immunity, debuff immunity

    Inflicting armor breaks: armor break immunity, debuff immunity, nodes that shrug off debuffs faster

    Cull was working as intended until a few months later they decided he wasn't. How is this system any good for players?

    He can’t really do 450k sp3 now, that was when he was bugged, it’s closer to 250k now, and also it takes a high sig and a lot of effort to get there
    Trust me, I had him.

    When he DIDNT have the crazy damage bug, a rank 5 at sig 1 at 10 missions with a lot of armor breaks (15+ at least), and suicides he did 450k+ damage easily. Remember that sig doesn't matter if were doing attacks during his rout buff. Sig only increases damage during the fury stage.

    Here's a rank 1 6* which is slightly weaker than a rank 5 doing 480k+

    This was 4 months ago when he was bugged.
  • Nick_Caine_32Nick_Caine_32 Posts: 449 ★★★

    The game has never had a time where each month had a little buff.

    Akhilxcx said:

    Just a question, but why are newer champions being reworked before older, worse champions?

    MCOC Team said:

    Summoners,

    The next two Champions to get the rebalance treatment will be Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw. These balance updates will be limited to the tuning and balancing of a Champion's existing kit, abilities won’t be added or removed.

    Ronin:

    We’ve taken a look at Ronin’s performance and are happy with his both his performance and his abilities. We will not be making any balance changes to Ronin at this time.

    Cull Obsidian:

    After looking at our data across all the game modes we have determined that Cull Obsidian is out damaging every other high-damage Champion in the game. While he does have his limiting factors, once he's fully ramped up he is able to end fights before even high-level Opponents can do any meaningful damage to him.

    The goal of Cull’s rebalance is to make tuning changes that keeps Cull Obsidian as one of the top damage dealers in-game.

    Ebony Maw:

    You said it and we saw it in the data. Although Ebony Maw is a decent Defender, he is underperforming as an Attacker (the designer said something about his Degeneration DPS being just sad and wrong).

    We are looking to boost both his defensive and offensive potential, but with an emphasis on offense.

    Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw’s balance changes should be live in approximately 3 months.

    These aren't reworks in the formal sense from what I understand. They're minor balances. Older Champs will require more of a rework like Colossus and OML. They're quite intensive, and I suspect preventing that much work is part of the reason they're revisiting newer ones to fill in any gaps and tweak any noticeable issues.
    Since when did minor anything take six months to implement? Especially if you're just addressing damage. You take away Cull's armor breaks and that is a totally different champion. Minor in my opinion will be taking his attack down a couple hundred points, they might even remove his the potency of his sig ability which causes him to have incredible burst damage, who knows.
    If the only thing on their plate was this, I'm sure it wouldn't take as long. Letting us know ahead of time is just being upfront. Just about everything in the game has a process before it makes it's way to our hands.
    gamora's buff was never on their plate during she hulk and spidergwen buffs but they still did an amazing job with that buff. so don't assume that kabam can't rework or rebalance in a specific time period.
    Do you know how long they were considering it?

    Just a question, but why are newer champions being reworked before older, worse champions?

    MCOC Team said:

    Summoners,

    The next two Champions to get the rebalance treatment will be Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw. These balance updates will be limited to the tuning and balancing of a Champion's existing kit, abilities won’t be added or removed.

    Ronin:

    We’ve taken a look at Ronin’s performance and are happy with his both his performance and his abilities. We will not be making any balance changes to Ronin at this time.

    Cull Obsidian:

    After looking at our data across all the game modes we have determined that Cull Obsidian is out damaging every other high-damage Champion in the game. While he does have his limiting factors, once he's fully ramped up he is able to end fights before even high-level Opponents can do any meaningful damage to him.

    The goal of Cull’s rebalance is to make tuning changes that keeps Cull Obsidian as one of the top damage dealers in-game.

    Ebony Maw:

    You said it and we saw it in the data. Although Ebony Maw is a decent Defender, he is underperforming as an Attacker (the designer said something about his Degeneration DPS being just sad and wrong).

    We are looking to boost both his defensive and offensive potential, but with an emphasis on offense.

    Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw’s balance changes should be live in approximately 3 months.

    These aren't reworks in the formal sense from what I understand. They're minor balances. Older Champs will require more of a rework like Colossus and OML. They're quite intensive, and I suspect preventing that much work is part of the reason they're revisiting newer ones to fill in any gaps and tweak any noticeable issues.
    Since when did minor anything take six months to implement? Especially if you're just addressing damage. You take away Cull's armor breaks and that is a totally different champion. Minor in my opinion will be taking his attack down a couple hundred points, they might even remove his the potency of his sig ability which causes him to have incredible burst damage, who knows.
    If the only thing on their plate was this, I'm sure it wouldn't take as long. Letting us know ahead of time is just being upfront. Just about everything in the game has a process before it makes it's way to our hands.
    I disagree with them being upfront due to Cull being in the basic during the announcement but we've gone back and forth before and neither one of our minds will be changed at this point.

    And as you said data takes time to collect. We agree on that so since the data has been collected already what would justify the need to actually implement the changes in 6 months if it is truly minor. I would say Namor had minor updates due to him being able to defeat map 7 Thanos in one shot and they implemented the change in about 4 days. It took a day to remove the interaction from Namor and 4 more days to fix the bugs that came with the first update.
    3 months to collect the data, at least. Then time to consider changes and test, implement, retest....
    Things take time.
    Sorry but you're wrong. There were quite a few months back a few years ago where they added changes to characters, including the ones I listed and more, where it was changing animations to mix up duplicates, or reworking special attacks, adding abilities, all of it. Maybe it wasn't EVERY MONTH but it was much more frequent than the changes they're doing lately. Gamora's changes were more along the lines of what they did in the past with Hulk, Punisher, Abomination, etc. and those weren't focused reworks like we're getting now either.

    You can @ me next time if you're gonna call me out like that.
  • THALEMKYKO1THALEMKYKO1 Posts: 98

    Lvernon15 said:

    Maybe Cull will turn out much better after being tuned if he can gain significant sustainability at the cost of some damage, but this uncertainty is not good at all for the game.

    A rank five with suicides at 10 charges could do ~450k+ sp3 damage. That's a lot, but he was unusable in most areas and damage was his only utility.

    At the highest levels, nobody used him in Alliance War or Alliance Quest, or in Labyrinth or many lanes in Act 6. Cull was very niche. No immunities, no sustainability, and only worked under a very specific set of conditions: can he parry opponents, inflict armor breaks, and proc his own buffs? No to a lot of that.

    Procing his own buffs (rout/thanos' favors): buffet, fisticuffs, pilfer, tranquility

    Being able to parry: limber, stun immunity, debuff immunity

    Inflicting armor breaks: armor break immunity, debuff immunity, nodes that shrug off debuffs faster

    Cull was working as intended until a few months later they decided he wasn't. How is this system any good for players?

    He can’t really do 450k sp3 now, that was when he was bugged, it’s closer to 250k now, and also it takes a high sig and a lot of effort to get there
    Trust me, I had him.

    When he DIDNT have the crazy damage bug, a rank 5 at sig 1 at 10 missions with a lot of armor breaks (15+ at least), and suicides he did 450k+ damage easily. Remember that sig doesn't matter if were doing attacks during his rout buff. Sig only increases damage during the fury stage.

    Here's a rank 1 6* which is slightly weaker than a rank 5 doing 480k+

    This was 4 months ago when he was bugged.
    It’s not no way bugged he was doing 2k non crit mediums
  • SettlersofCatanSettlersofCatan Posts: 94

    Lvernon15 said:

    Maybe Cull will turn out much better after being tuned if he can gain significant sustainability at the cost of some damage, but this uncertainty is not good at all for the game.

    A rank five with suicides at 10 charges could do ~450k+ sp3 damage. That's a lot, but he was unusable in most areas and damage was his only utility.

    At the highest levels, nobody used him in Alliance War or Alliance Quest, or in Labyrinth or many lanes in Act 6. Cull was very niche. No immunities, no sustainability, and only worked under a very specific set of conditions: can he parry opponents, inflict armor breaks, and proc his own buffs? No to a lot of that.

    Procing his own buffs (rout/thanos' favors): buffet, fisticuffs, pilfer, tranquility

    Being able to parry: limber, stun immunity, debuff immunity

    Inflicting armor breaks: armor break immunity, debuff immunity, nodes that shrug off debuffs faster

    Cull was working as intended until a few months later they decided he wasn't. How is this system any good for players?

    He can’t really do 450k sp3 now, that was when he was bugged, it’s closer to 250k now, and also it takes a high sig and a lot of effort to get there
    Trust me, I had him.

    When he DIDNT have the crazy damage bug, a rank 5 at sig 1 at 10 missions with a lot of armor breaks (15+ at least), and suicides he did 450k+ damage easily. Remember that sig doesn't matter if were doing attacks during his rout buff. Sig only increases damage during the fury stage.

    Here's a rank 1 6* which is slightly weaker than a rank 5 doing 480k+

    This was 4 months ago when he was bugged.


    Don't give out the wrong information. Cull didn't have the damage bug then. Watch the video again.





    This is whens he's bugged (mid to late July). Doing 60k+ crits after 10 missions with no rout or fury buff and only 3 armor breaks:




  • PgalPgal Posts: 26
    i assume that will be in like 2 years time, right?
  • Belfigor2Belfigor2 Posts: 80
    edited October 4
    Medusa shatters armor, she should be the one that lowers armor the most, noone should go beyond what medusa does, but cull does, he just continue to stack up, how can you have less armor than naked?
    Medusa should continue to be the boss of armor break, no one should be able to break more armor than medusa armor shatter....if you destroy something you cant destroy it more, it is just air after you destroyed something

    about cull nerf, when he was a 5* r1 he does 5000 dmg mediums...that sounds balanced....x force deadpool 6* does not even come close to a medium like that
    I own cull and I do think he deserve a nerf, but it should been much earlier, now some people have spent thousands of dollars to get him.....
    will we get rank down tickets?
    about nerf I would say stop armor break at 4, or make it so he can gain max 1 persistent per fight
  • Dixienormas2000Dixienormas2000 Posts: 72
    Still no mod?
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 6,453 ★★★★★
    Tyler said:

    I will no longer spend in this game on featured not Worth the money spent to obtain the champ to have it nerfed 3 to 6 months later and haven't spent much last much on anything period of this and bad drop rates in this game with 5 star hero basic crystals. I have not won a new champ in months with them and over these issues this has caused me to stop literally playing or spending much in this game. It is no fun to beat content and get nothing but a few 6 star shards for dups of same champs lol. This game isn't worth the time it is not fun any longer. Thinking seriously of quiting permanently and at 1mil 285k im just plain sick of game nerfing champs and bad drop rates and just everything this game is doing now. Sorry this game is no longer fun it's just plain frustrating.

    This is a prime example of complete over reaction. You are 100% exaggerating nerfing of champs. 12.0 is literally the only time they've nerfed anyone. Cull is now the first time they've talked about making a minor adjustment and we dont even know what it will be. Yet you sit her acting like they nerf a champ every month.

    As for the drop rates, if the 1.285mil is in reference to your PI rating, I don't think youve had that bad of luck in pulling great champs or bad drop rates.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 6,453 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Tyler said:

    I will no longer spend in this game on featured not Worth the money spent to obtain the champ to have it nerfed 3 to 6 months later and haven't spent much last much on anything period of this and bad drop rates in this game with 5 star hero basic crystals. I have not won a new champ in months with them and over these issues this has caused me to stop literally playing or spending much in this game. It is no fun to beat content and get nothing but a few 6 star shards for dups of same champs lol. This game isn't worth the time it is not fun any longer. Thinking seriously of quiting permanently and at 1mil 285k im just plain sick of game nerfing champs and bad drop rates and just everything this game is doing now. Sorry this game is no longer fun it's just plain frustrating.

    This is a prime example of complete over reaction. You are 100% exaggerating nerfing of champs. 12.0 is literally the only time they've nerfed anyone. Cull is now the first time they've talked about making a minor adjustment and we dont even know what it will be. Yet you sit her acting like they nerf a champ every month.
    Actually, I don't think its an over reaction. If you expect something for your cash and you aren't getting it, the rational thing to do is to not buy the thing. For that matter, if you aren't having fun playing a game, the rational thing to do is to stop playing and move on and find something you do have fun at.

    What is irrational is buying things you expect to be one thing when the seller explicitly tells you they won't be and demanding they change the thing to match your expectations. Or playing a game you think isn't fun, is frustrating, or is being supported by developers that are taking the game in the exact opposite direction you want.

    F2P games only need a small fraction of the players to spend to support the entire game for everyone else. It doesn't need everyone to think the game is worth their money. It doesn't need everyone spending. It doesn't even *want* everyone spending.

    There are games that have figured out how to support themselves selling nothing but cosmetic features. The vast majority of players would not spend actual cash to buy something that provides zero in-game benefit, so they don't spend. Many of them even demand that the game developer add things that have more value, because it is "cheating" the playerbase to sell things for a lot of money that have no in-game performance benefit. The developers generally ignore those requests, because they explicitly do not need or want those players' cash, if it means selling things they don't want to sell in the game.

    Kabam could attach performance guarantees on every crystal they sold, but they don't want to. So players have to decide whether to buy them or not. Some will, most won't, and that's that.
    Its an overreaction to the possibility of a change in damage to one champ. The bit he/she about "being sick of game nerfing champs". Its not a regular thing. Its been 12.0 and you can lump She Hulk in there too. The fact is, we have zero clue to what they are going to do. Its an overreaction until something is said that we can actually react to.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,899 Guardian

    DNA3000 said:

    Tyler said:

    I will no longer spend in this game on featured not Worth the money spent to obtain the champ to have it nerfed 3 to 6 months later and haven't spent much last much on anything period of this and bad drop rates in this game with 5 star hero basic crystals. I have not won a new champ in months with them and over these issues this has caused me to stop literally playing or spending much in this game. It is no fun to beat content and get nothing but a few 6 star shards for dups of same champs lol. This game isn't worth the time it is not fun any longer. Thinking seriously of quiting permanently and at 1mil 285k im just plain sick of game nerfing champs and bad drop rates and just everything this game is doing now. Sorry this game is no longer fun it's just plain frustrating.

    This is a prime example of complete over reaction. You are 100% exaggerating nerfing of champs. 12.0 is literally the only time they've nerfed anyone. Cull is now the first time they've talked about making a minor adjustment and we dont even know what it will be. Yet you sit her acting like they nerf a champ every month.
    Actually, I don't think its an over reaction. If you expect something for your cash and you aren't getting it, the rational thing to do is to not buy the thing. For that matter, if you aren't having fun playing a game, the rational thing to do is to stop playing and move on and find something you do have fun at.

    What is irrational is buying things you expect to be one thing when the seller explicitly tells you they won't be and demanding they change the thing to match your expectations. Or playing a game you think isn't fun, is frustrating, or is being supported by developers that are taking the game in the exact opposite direction you want.

    F2P games only need a small fraction of the players to spend to support the entire game for everyone else. It doesn't need everyone to think the game is worth their money. It doesn't need everyone spending. It doesn't even *want* everyone spending.

    There are games that have figured out how to support themselves selling nothing but cosmetic features. The vast majority of players would not spend actual cash to buy something that provides zero in-game benefit, so they don't spend. Many of them even demand that the game developer add things that have more value, because it is "cheating" the playerbase to sell things for a lot of money that have no in-game performance benefit. The developers generally ignore those requests, because they explicitly do not need or want those players' cash, if it means selling things they don't want to sell in the game.

    Kabam could attach performance guarantees on every crystal they sold, but they don't want to. So players have to decide whether to buy them or not. Some will, most won't, and that's that.
    Its an overreaction to the possibility of a change in damage to one champ. The bit he/she about "being sick of game nerfing champs". Its not a regular thing. Its been 12.0 and you can lump She Hulk in there too. The fact is, we have zero clue to what they are going to do. Its an overreaction until something is said that we can actually react to.
    I'm taking the poster at their word that their problems with the game are systemic, and not just focused on a single change, simply exacerbated by it. Multiple posters have made that same case explicitly.
  • Sieger7999Sieger7999 Posts: 31
    The elephant in the room in the lack of an announcement on Namor, is it acceptable if the tweak is announced later? The cynical view (which I share) is that they get the best of both worlds, they can openly over power champs (the excuse that they couldn’t of picked up culls damage in testing is not an acceptable test, nor is the damage namor can get from chaining sp3s) when the only option to get them is to essentially pay for them, then once they become ‘free’ they can say oops we made a mistake, need to dial them down, making the new champs released more desirable.

    My money is that they will release the news after nycc to avoid having to face the discomfort, if they don’t do this my guess is they will rethink this process altogether.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,516 ★★★★★

    The elephant in the room in the lack of an announcement on Namor, is it acceptable if the tweak is announced later? The cynical view (which I share) is that they get the best of both worlds, they can openly over power champs (the excuse that they couldn’t of picked up culls damage in testing is not an acceptable test, nor is the damage namor can get from chaining sp3s) when the only option to get them is to essentially pay for them, then once they become ‘free’ they can say oops we made a mistake, need to dial them down, making the new champs released more desirable.

    My money is that they will release the news after nycc to avoid having to face the discomfort, if they don’t do this my guess is they will rethink this process altogether.

    So far, the only word has been on Cull/Maw, and Anni./HT. Not every Champ will require rebalancing, and not every Champ that's popular is automatically up for changes. It really depends on what's needed. The only people who have said anything about Namor are the Players because there's an assumption that they're going through and neutering any Champ people like.
  • Sieger7999Sieger7999 Posts: 31
    edited October 5
    If they don’t move ahead with any tweaks on namor, but move ahead with tweaks on cull I will be a) pleasantly suprised (as I have both at a high rank but never used cull after the initial excitement of getting him in a paid crystal) and b) very confused as namor if a much better champ and goes against people’s arguments that they need to do tweaks so that 12.0 doesn’t occur again. Namor is much more likely seen as a champ that could cause an inbalance (purely from his sig ability) then someone like cull

    Edit: to add to this I think there would be a lot less hysteria if they came out and said we are tweaking down his damage but increasing his block proficiency. I would actually use that champ more often if they did this
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,516 ★★★★★

    Not every Champ will require rebalancing, and not every Champ that's popular is automatically up for changes. It really depends on what's needed. The only people who have said anything about Namor are the Players because there's an assumption that they're going through and neutering any Champ people like.

    And the reason players are doing this is because Kabam broke their own rules in regards to when the announcement would be made about champs with cull. I Understand that the player can be overly jittery sometimes but in this case I think we have every right to be and only because of the delayed cull announcement , this for this reason alone I put this on Kabam.

    I also think it is counter productive to announce something at the 3 month mark then not give ANY details for another 3 months, you honestly may as well leave the announcement to the 6 month mark with the details
    Broke their own word? As soon as they announced it, people started clamoring in asking for them to revisit Maw. They announced HT and Anni. In this case, they were trying to cater to what people wanted. Unfortunately, if they're going to go back and do that round of Champs, they can't just overlook the other imbalances they see.
  • DeviousDevious Posts: 8
    Ebony is good số nợ need for buff
  • SettlersofCatanSettlersofCatan Posts: 94

    In other games, characters are free and balance changes are frequent.

    Not sure how that model works in MCOC, but what we now have isn't working. Players are getting the worst of both worlds. High acquisition cost and volatility, and you can't have both.

    Want regular balance changes? No problem, Cavs should cost 20 units not 300.

    I like this idea... id be much more ok with the balancing program if acquisition cost was lower.
    Yup, much more palatable.

    But what I don't like about the idea, in a double edged sword kind of way, is that easier access to champs cheapens the whole thing. I like having a champ that not everyone else does. He's mine. I managed to win the RNG lottery and many others didn't. Have him at r5 and sig 200. Invested everything into it. Makes it a bit special.

    But I also despise the acquisition costs and these types of threads, so maybe it's best to forgo champ sentimentality and just give them all out for cheap. Don't care how rich anyone is, nobody likes spending thousands on Goal-post Shifting Contest of Champions.
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