Think it's obvious by now that you guys need to go back and rework this whole approach (especially with AWA starting way earlier than advertised...).
So re-posting this suggestion:
one possible solution to the player movement (and start-time) challenges that these changes create:
Initiate matchmaking AFTER defense placement phase.
Make defense placement phase "open", meaning players joining an alliance anytime during defensive placement are able to place in that war (as long as everything is placed before matchmaking starts).
There's really no good reason you need a matched opponent when setting defenders, as you shouldn't have any more information after matchmaking than before that would modify strategy for placing defense.
This would carve out an almost 24 hour window after each war when people could move between alliances, allowing them to wait for rewards, finish own wars, etc. It would actually make the issue of coordinating alliance movements/recruits way easier than previously, where you need to create a gap by delaying AW start (or asking your new ally to do so in order to wait for you to join).
Theoretically this could allow alliances to start their 24 hr attack clock at a time that was variable but convenient for them, with the caveat that delaying their start would eat into their time to place defenders in the next one.
Matchmaking could still all be started at the same time for every alliance (and defenders would need to be locking in by that time), but Alliance XYZ could choose to start their 24hrs of attack with a 3 hour delay (eating 3 hours of their clock to set defense for the next one). Matchmaking has been done, but they're simply holding off until a time convenient for them (selected by officers ahead of time). You'd have alliances finishing attack at a different time (so real time scoreboard watching takes a hit), but all wars would be completed and results would be known before the next matchmaking began.
@Kabam Miike garbage match making brother, I'm on Silver team with 15 members and we are facing Master Alliance not even in the same tier or the same facility. We've decided not to even bother with war what's the point of wasting money on this new and improved matchmaking system. We did our matchmaking 5 days ago and this is what the result is. Our Victory is 94 points awarded but our defeat we only lose four points this is worse than before
It's pretty obvious some stuff went wrong. But it's a new system and the off season. Maybe take a breath, play some new content, manage war as best as you can, and don't stress?
Today is basically a meaningless war. Test some stuff out. Relax. Point out the issues. Move on. Send me refills.
OK the last part is just to see if you're reading but hey... There's a lot of stuff to get done 😂😂😂
*** PLEASE READ IF YOUR WAR START TIME SEEMS EARLIER THAN YOU THINK IT SHOULD BE ***
Since the thread is long and it seems people are jumping into the thread now on the start times of the war that just started, its probably worth summarizing the discussions surrounding war start times that occurred yesterday.
The original announcement said this:
Matches will be given over the course of a 4 hour Matchmaking Phase, followed by a 20 hour Defense Placement phase, and a 24 hour Attack Phase.
It is a little ambiguous what "given over the course of a four hour phase" means, but the accompanying chart in the announcement seemed to suggest that all start times would be identical: at 11:00 Pacific.
This is how the matchmaking system is meant to function, but we're sorry that our announcement post did not have enough detail. How the matchmaking system works is that everyone enters the matchmaking phase at the same time, but throughout the matchmaking period, once your Alliance has found a match, the Defense phase of the war will begin and the Attack phase will begin 20 hours later.
This somewhat staggered approach is necessary because of the server strain that would be caused if all wars began at exactly the same time.
The bottom line: as the system is currently implemented, all alliances Enlisted for the next war will enter the Enlistment phase at 11:00 Pacific. Over the next four hours (possibly less) each alliance will be matched against an opponent, and as soon as that match is set those two alliances will immediately enter defense placement phase. Defense placement is 20 hours, regardless of when it starts, and attack phase starts immediately afterwards. This means your alliance's attack phase can start ANYWHERE between 7:00 Pacific and 11:00 Pacific.
I repeat: Alliance War Attack start times will now be anywhere between 7:00 am Pacific and 11:00 am Pacific. And you won't know where in that interval it will start (but it will be 20 hours after defense placement starts). It could be the same next war, it could be different.
The chart is super misleading. Defense placement and Attack are not aligned, and @Kabam Miike was wrong about his interpretation of the system. We now know pretty much with certainty that @Kabam Lyra statement is true, given the staggered starts people have already reported.
Feel free to complain about it (I think it is horrible), but it isn't bugged. This is what Kabam intended to do all along.
So, now that there's quotes across the board proving this wasn't intended, what do you NOW intend to do about this? Seems like the majority are flaming pissed. Myself included. When Kabam came at us with a 11 AM PST start time, we took you at your word. When it was said that all wars start at the same time, we took you at your word. When it was said that this would be an improvement over the old system, again, took you at your word. Not for nothing, but your words are not adding up to what reality formed.
If there was an unintended issue that occurred, just say so. Stop with this working as intended nonsense. I HIGHLY DOUBT this was intended. At least I hope it wasn't. If it was, you have a really odd way of telling us. As previously stated, NO ONE in the USA wants to start wars this early. No one. Plus those poor Alliances that start crazy late on the other side of the globe. Seeing as how no one started at 11 AM PST, we can plainly see something went wrong. Either we got the wrong info, or the computer was given the wrong info. Either way, something is clearly WRONG.
Own it. Work with us. Then move forward. You speak of transparency, and then things like this happen. Just own it. That message at the end of the closed thread just proves there's a big difference between what many think of when speaking of transparency, and what Kabam does. Transparency means telling us when things go right, AND when they go wrong. We have a bunch of posts confirming none of us saw this coming. We did our best to work around a schedule you made for us. Graphic and ALL. Yet, here we are, getting something different.
I for one was actually excited for that fixed start time for everyone. Wasn't particularly happy with the time itself, but figured this was a step in the right direction. Now... it's just another heap on the mountain of good intentions gone wrong here with MCoC. The wisest decision would be to shut down war for 24 hours and relaunch it. Although, we all know that isn't gonna happen. As wise as it is, this message, alongside the slew of those behind it, and the slew that will follow.... will likely fall upon deaf ears. I would LOVE to be wrong. Would make my DAY to be wrong about this. Please Kabam, prove me wrong and do right by us. There's been some GREAT suggestions made. Listen to your players.
Also, quick question to the rest of the players, were your defenders locked out of solo quests once placed? Another officer said they couldn't access a couple that he placed for defense before attack phase kicked off. Personally, I didn't have this issue. Just curious if anyone else did.
*** PLEASE READ IF YOUR WAR START TIME SEEMS EARLIER THAN YOU THINK IT SHOULD BE ***
Since the thread is long and it seems people are jumping into the thread now on the start times of the war that just started, its probably worth summarizing the discussions surrounding war start times that occurred yesterday.
The original announcement said this:
Matches will be given over the course of a 4 hour Matchmaking Phase, followed by a 20 hour Defense Placement phase, and a 24 hour Attack Phase.
It is a little ambiguous what "given over the course of a four hour phase" means, but the accompanying chart in the announcement seemed to suggest that all start times would be identical: at 11:00 Pacific.
This is how the matchmaking system is meant to function, but we're sorry that our announcement post did not have enough detail. How the matchmaking system works is that everyone enters the matchmaking phase at the same time, but throughout the matchmaking period, once your Alliance has found a match, the Defense phase of the war will begin and the Attack phase will begin 20 hours later.
This somewhat staggered approach is necessary because of the server strain that would be caused if all wars began at exactly the same time.
The bottom line: as the system is currently implemented, all alliances Enlisted for the next war will enter the Enlistment phase at 11:00 Pacific. Over the next four hours (possibly less) each alliance will be matched against an opponent, and as soon as that match is set those two alliances will immediately enter defense placement phase. Defense placement is 20 hours, regardless of when it starts, and attack phase starts immediately afterwards. This means your alliance's attack phase can start ANYWHERE between 7:00 Pacific and 11:00 Pacific.
I repeat: Alliance War Attack start times will now be anywhere between 7:00 am Pacific and 11:00 am Pacific. And you won't know where in that interval it will start (but it will be 20 hours after defense placement starts). It could be the same next war, it could be different.
The chart is super misleading. Defense placement and Attack are not aligned, and @Kabam Miike was wrong about his interpretation of the system. We now know pretty much with certainty that @Kabam Lyra statement is true, given the staggered starts people have already reported.
Feel free to complain about it (I think it is horrible), but it isn't bugged. This is what Kabam intended to do all along.
Any explins for the mismatch is stil alive this system shuld hav provent it but that Not the case
The system is bugge somhow
The 4 hour matchmaking system needs to be exactly 4 hours later, 11am pst -3pm pst is 4 hours sooner than war usually starts, that's unacceptable, for the past 3 years war has started and ended between 5 or 6pm pst (2pm-3pm est) so why change everything? Make the 4 hour matchmaking time 3pm-7pm pst so war can start and end at the same time it always has for the past 3 years. My alliance, which has worked hard to maintain gold 1 for 5 seasons will he devastated by this extremely dramatic time change, it cant continue like this and NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED IMMEDIATELY!
The starting time issues are extremely annoying but the biggest issue is still the matchmaking system. How are top master allies getting these ridiculous matchups? We have a fair matchup (+33 and -32) but some of the other allies in the master bracket have extremely easy matchups. This aspect needs to be fixed before seasons start.
*** PLEASE READ IF YOUR WAR START TIME SEEMS EARLIER THAN YOU THINK IT SHOULD BE ***
Since the thread is long and it seems people are jumping into the thread now on the start times of the war that just started, its probably worth summarizing the discussions surrounding war start times that occurred yesterday.
.....
Thank you for summarizing it so well. And including the definitely inconsistent statements and why we might have interpreted it one way versus another (because even the Miike vs Lyra did the same).
The chart and the description are radically different than the implementation, and I was actually hopeful for the consistent start time, as at least one can plan for it, and it played nicely with AQ. The actual implementation is much more difficult.
It’s hard to see how starting every war hours earlier than any war has ever started before makes sense. Clearly the system is also still producing huge mismatches. At least our opponent is tanking though and didn’t place any defense lol.
*** PLEASE READ IF YOUR WAR START TIME SEEMS EARLIER THAN YOU THINK IT SHOULD BE ***
Since the thread is long and it seems people are jumping into the thread now on the start times of the war that just started, its probably worth summarizing the discussions surrounding war start times that occurred yesterday.
.....
Thank you for summarizing it so well. And including the definitely inconsistent statements and why we might have interpreted it one way versus another (because even the Miike vs Lyra did the same).
The chart and the description are radically different than the implementation, and I was actually hopeful for the consistent start time, as at least one can plan for it, and it played nicely with AQ. The actual implementation is much more difficult.
Consistent and locked in start time was problematic for many alliances. But the actual system does something far worse. Not only are start times not guaranteed to be consistent, they are now four hours earlier than they used to be. The vast overwhelming majority of alliances were starting wars between 11:00 am Pacific (when matching officially opens) and about 5pm Pacific (the latest you can probably reasonably go at least early on to still have a shot at three wars in the week with the full 24 hour attack time). No alliance could possibly be starting wars between 7am and 11am under the old system and still expect to fight all three wars.
So the new system is both variable start times, and *also* pushed into a window that practically no one was starting in in the first place. That is the most disruptive possible way to do it, and it wasn't necessary. Even with variable start, Kabam could have pushed match making to 15:00 - 19:00, which then meant actual attack phases would be starting between 11:00 and 15:00 which is when they were starting for most alliances in the first place.
@DNA3000 - Your assertion that the staggered start times were intended is likely correct. Sad as that is. Whether it was or wasn't, there's INDEFINITELY some conflicting information given. No question about that one. You laid it out quite nicely. Good looks! Also, as you said it, (and others with different words, myself included) this is horrible.
While coming at this situation with what appeared to be the best of intentions, things did not pan out right. The matches shown previously prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt. Coupled with unbelievably early start times... yeah, this is no good. How many more posts will it take for them to figure out something needs to be done? Shut it down guys. It was a misfire for sure.
Start aw at the same time as aq and make the match making fair. This is horrible start time for europe! That 4 our window for starting is just stupid and taking down our aw fun
At least if all the start times were 11 PST, some of us would have enough time to clear AQ before the attack phase started. Now it will be impossible to use AQ attackers as AW defenders. Keep spreading us more and more thin.
Here’s some additional clarity to our previous announcement regarding the new timelines for Alliance Wars.
NEW MATCHMAKING SYSTEM - CLARIFICATION There are 3 Enlistment Periods each week. Alliances must opt-in to their next war during these times.
Enlistment will begin Sunday, Wednesday, and Friday from 3PM PST. (11PM UTC)
When your Alliance enlists, the Matchmaking window will start.
The Matchmaking window is from 11AM to 3PM PST (7PM UTC - 11PM UTC).
You may be matched at any point within this window, however the Matchmaking system prioritizes Alliances with higher prestige and war ratings.
Once matched the game will send the matched Alliances a push notification, please turn your notifications on.
As soon as 2 Alliances are matched, the Defence Placement Phase starts.
Once the Defence Placement Phase ends, the 24hr attack phase begins.
This should correct any conflicting information on the times from our original Post.
We will be monitoring the new Matchmaking System closely over the next few Wars, taking in your feedback and reviewing Alliance activity.
Over this period we will be refining and improving the system, we will post updates in this Discussion thread and append any new information to the top of this Post.
NEW MEMBERS RECRUITMENT - CLARIFICATION As long as you recruit a new member before the matchmaking window starts, they will be able to join your next war. The original behaviour is still correct. However there was a bug found, see below for a workaround.
NEW MEMBERS RECRUITMENT - BUG AND WORKAROUND There is currently a bug where a new member cannot join a war if you have already enlisted for your next war.
The workaround for this is to recruit new members before you enlist, or de-enlist and re-enlist after accepting a new member. We are working to get this fixed as soon as we can.
Well they kept the links. It's 3:15 and I've been sitting at node 30 for about 45 min and most of my BG hasn't joined cause they're at work. Wonder when I'll finally get unlinked.
Also, Kabam Karma and I want to personally apologize for the incorrect information that was shared earlier.
There was a misunderstanding between us when this information was being drafted. Our initial post had some conflicting information, and while it also contained the correct information, we neglected to pick up on the incorrect information, and I later doubled down on the incorrect information.
This was an oversight on our part, and we are sorry for the confusion that we caused.
Defensive Placement Period last for 20 hours. Therefore AW start times will fall between 7 am PST and 11am PST.
This shouldn't be that difficult.
I'm far less concerned with a mistake that was made by the mods in describing how this would work, and am far more concerned about how the devs think this if a better system. It's garbage. The only reason I can conceivably think Kabam is pushing this system is so that you are required to choose specific champs for AW and AQ. No finishing AQ early and then placing defenders.
@DNA3000 - Your assertion that the staggered start times were intended is likely correct.
According to @Kabam Lyra the game starts every war as soon as the match is found because this spreads the load out among the servers that run war, and the servers can't handle all of the wars starting essentially at the same time. So it must have been intentional for the wars to start over a period of time rather than all of them at the depicted start time.
@DNA3000 - Your assertion that the staggered start times were intended is likely correct.
According to @Kabam Lyra the game starts every war as soon as the match is found because this spreads the load out among the servers that run war, and the servers can't handle all of the wars starting essentially at the same time. So it must have been intentional for the wars to start over a period of time rather than all of them at the depicted start time.
But AQ starts for everyone at the same time and the servers can handle that.
I am even more confused that before. This system makes no sense. We just want to start wars in the middle of the day USA time. Somewhere from 2 pm ET - 4 pm ET. Is that possible? How do we do that? Do we have to enlist at a certain time? I'm so lost
This time system is break up alot of ally with players from different countries. This system is stupid. Ally's specifically start wars at certain times to accomadate their players. I personally have to work 5 to 3pm est. I'm gonna miss the whole main parts of war! This is so broken.
I am even more confused that before. This system makes no sense. We just want to start wars in the middle of the day USA time. Somewhere from 2 pm ET - 4 pm ET. Is that possible? How do we do that? Do we have to enlist at a certain time? I'm so lost
It is not possible with the new system. All attack phases will start between 10am - 2pm EST.
I am even more confused that before. This system makes no sense. We just want to start wars in the middle of the day USA time. Somewhere from 2 pm ET - 4 pm ET. Is that possible? How do we do that? Do we have to enlist at a certain time? I'm so lost
It is not possible with the new system. All attack phases will start between 10am - 2pm EST.
Comments
So re-posting this suggestion:
one possible solution to the player movement (and start-time) challenges that these changes create:
Initiate matchmaking AFTER defense placement phase.
Make defense placement phase "open", meaning players joining an alliance anytime during defensive placement are able to place in that war (as long as everything is placed before matchmaking starts).
There's really no good reason you need a matched opponent when setting defenders, as you shouldn't have any more information after matchmaking than before that would modify strategy for placing defense.
This would carve out an almost 24 hour window after each war when people could move between alliances, allowing them to wait for rewards, finish own wars, etc. It would actually make the issue of coordinating alliance movements/recruits way easier than previously, where you need to create a gap by delaying AW start (or asking your new ally to do so in order to wait for you to join).
Theoretically this could allow alliances to start their 24 hr attack clock at a time that was variable but convenient for them, with the caveat that delaying their start would eat into their time to place defenders in the next one.
Matchmaking could still all be started at the same time for every alliance (and defenders would need to be locking in by that time), but Alliance XYZ could choose to start their 24hrs of attack with a 3 hour delay (eating 3 hours of their clock to set defense for the next one). Matchmaking has been done, but they're simply holding off until a time convenient for them (selected by officers ahead of time). You'd have alliances finishing attack at a different time (so real time scoreboard watching takes a hit), but all wars would be completed and results would be known before the next matchmaking began.
thanks
Today is basically a meaningless war. Test some stuff out. Relax. Point out the issues. Move on. Send me refills.
OK the last part is just to see if you're reading but hey... There's a lot of stuff to get done 😂😂😂
Since the thread is long and it seems people are jumping into the thread now on the start times of the war that just started, its probably worth summarizing the discussions surrounding war start times that occurred yesterday.
The original announcement said this:
It is a little ambiguous what "given over the course of a four hour phase" means, but the accompanying chart in the announcement seemed to suggest that all start times would be identical: at 11:00 Pacific.
@Kabam Miike explicitly stated this in a post in this thread: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/719082/#Comment_719082
However, this is NOT how the system is implemented, per @Kabam Lyra https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/733639/#Comment_733639
The bottom line: as the system is currently implemented, all alliances Enlisted for the next war will enter the Enlistment phase at 11:00 Pacific. Over the next four hours (possibly less) each alliance will be matched against an opponent, and as soon as that match is set those two alliances will immediately enter defense placement phase. Defense placement is 20 hours, regardless of when it starts, and attack phase starts immediately afterwards. This means your alliance's attack phase can start ANYWHERE between 7:00 Pacific and 11:00 Pacific.
I repeat: Alliance War Attack start times will now be anywhere between 7:00 am Pacific and 11:00 am Pacific. And you won't know where in that interval it will start (but it will be 20 hours after defense placement starts). It could be the same next war, it could be different.
The chart is super misleading. Defense placement and Attack are not aligned, and @Kabam Miike was wrong about his interpretation of the system. We now know pretty much with certainty that @Kabam Lyra statement is true, given the staggered starts people have already reported.
Feel free to complain about it (I think it is horrible), but it isn't bugged. This is what Kabam intended to do all along.
If there was an unintended issue that occurred, just say so. Stop with this working as intended nonsense. I HIGHLY DOUBT this was intended. At least I hope it wasn't. If it was, you have a really odd way of telling us. As previously stated, NO ONE in the USA wants to start wars this early. No one. Plus those poor Alliances that start crazy late on the other side of the globe. Seeing as how no one started at 11 AM PST, we can plainly see something went wrong. Either we got the wrong info, or the computer was given the wrong info. Either way, something is clearly WRONG.
Own it. Work with us. Then move forward. You speak of transparency, and then things like this happen. Just own it. That message at the end of the closed thread just proves there's a big difference between what many think of when speaking of transparency, and what Kabam does. Transparency means telling us when things go right, AND when they go wrong. We have a bunch of posts confirming none of us saw this coming. We did our best to work around a schedule you made for us. Graphic and ALL. Yet, here we are, getting something different.
I for one was actually excited for that fixed start time for everyone. Wasn't particularly happy with the time itself, but figured this was a step in the right direction. Now... it's just another heap on the mountain of good intentions gone wrong here with MCoC. The wisest decision would be to shut down war for 24 hours and relaunch it. Although, we all know that isn't gonna happen. As wise as it is, this message, alongside the slew of those behind it, and the slew that will follow.... will likely fall upon deaf ears. I would LOVE to be wrong. Would make my DAY to be wrong about this. Please Kabam, prove me wrong and do right by us. There's been some GREAT suggestions made. Listen to your players.
Also, quick question to the rest of the players, were your defenders locked out of solo quests once placed? Another officer said they couldn't access a couple that he placed for defense before attack phase kicked off. Personally, I didn't have this issue. Just curious if anyone else did.
The system is bugge somhow
Thank you for summarizing it so well. And including the definitely inconsistent statements and why we might have interpreted it one way versus another (because even the Miike vs Lyra did the same).
The chart and the description are radically different than the implementation, and I was actually hopeful for the consistent start time, as at least one can plan for it, and it played nicely with AQ. The actual implementation is much more difficult.
Consistent and locked in start time was problematic for many alliances. But the actual system does something far worse. Not only are start times not guaranteed to be consistent, they are now four hours earlier than they used to be. The vast overwhelming majority of alliances were starting wars between 11:00 am Pacific (when matching officially opens) and about 5pm Pacific (the latest you can probably reasonably go at least early on to still have a shot at three wars in the week with the full 24 hour attack time). No alliance could possibly be starting wars between 7am and 11am under the old system and still expect to fight all three wars.
So the new system is both variable start times, and *also* pushed into a window that practically no one was starting in in the first place. That is the most disruptive possible way to do it, and it wasn't necessary. Even with variable start, Kabam could have pushed match making to 15:00 - 19:00, which then meant actual attack phases would be starting between 11:00 and 15:00 which is when they were starting for most alliances in the first place.
While coming at this situation with what appeared to be the best of intentions, things did not pan out right. The matches shown previously prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt. Coupled with unbelievably early start times... yeah, this is no good. How many more posts will it take for them to figure out something needs to be done? Shut it down guys. It was a misfire for sure.
This is an excellent suggestion
Here’s some additional clarity to our previous announcement regarding the new timelines for Alliance Wars.
NEW MATCHMAKING SYSTEM - CLARIFICATION
There are 3 Enlistment Periods each week. Alliances must opt-in to their next war during these times.
This should correct any conflicting information on the times from our original Post.
We will be monitoring the new Matchmaking System closely over the next few Wars, taking in your feedback and reviewing Alliance activity.
Over this period we will be refining and improving the system, we will post updates in this Discussion thread and append any new information to the top of this Post.
NEW MEMBERS RECRUITMENT - CLARIFICATION
As long as you recruit a new member before the matchmaking window starts, they will be able to join your next war. The original behaviour is still correct. However there was a bug found, see below for a workaround.
NEW MEMBERS RECRUITMENT - BUG AND WORKAROUND
There is currently a bug where a new member cannot join a war if you have already enlisted for your next war.
The workaround for this is to recruit new members before you enlist, or de-enlist and re-enlist after accepting a new member. We are working to get this fixed as soon as we can.
There was a misunderstanding between us when this information was being drafted. Our initial post had some conflicting information, and while it also contained the correct information, we neglected to pick up on the incorrect information, and I later doubled down on the incorrect information.
This was an oversight on our part, and we are sorry for the confusion that we caused.
Defensive Placement Period last for 20 hours. Therefore AW start times will fall between 7 am PST and 11am PST.
This shouldn't be that difficult.
I'm far less concerned with a mistake that was made by the mods in describing how this would work, and am far more concerned about how the devs think this if a better system. It's garbage. The only reason I can conceivably think Kabam is pushing this system is so that you are required to choose specific champs for AW and AQ. No finishing AQ early and then placing defenders.
According to @Kabam Lyra the game starts every war as soon as the match is found because this spreads the load out among the servers that run war, and the servers can't handle all of the wars starting essentially at the same time. So it must have been intentional for the wars to start over a period of time rather than all of them at the depicted start time.
But AQ starts for everyone at the same time and the servers can handle that.
AQ + AW > AQ
It is not possible with the new system. All attack phases will start between 10am - 2pm EST.
Well sh!t