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Herald is a false hope that only deplete our resources.

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Comments

  • PulyamanPulyaman Member Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★
    mbrace said:

    I simply am not talking to big picture people. I’m sure that there are IQ issues here. You are incapable of recognizing that larger problems are almost always the accumulation of smaller problems that went unchecked. I protest at least 2 of the boss fights for Herald, because any one of these fights represents a pattern that should not be repeated. What it really means is that Cavalier is bound to contain fights that only one or two champs could get through, and this is really going to annoy people. Some may want to quit over it in frustration that their crystal pulls have not favored them.

    My issue is not skill, nor having enough ranked champs, nor being able to understand the nodes. You guys deviated to all those things in ignoring the key issue. None of them change the fact that one cannot defeat Herald Doctor Doom or Void without using revives, unless they have a ranked up champ from a very short list of viable counters. So instead of me opening another 300 crystals with hopes of getting HT, why doesn’t Kabam just not design fights this way?

    Once again, the quest is not gated to star rarity. You can use 4 star counters if you have skill. Human torch is not the only counter to Doom. The game involved bringing counters to specific champs and nodes. If you are cavalier, I must assume you should have a decent roster of 4 star.
  • mbracembrace Member Posts: 898 ★★★
    edited August 2020
    Pulyaman said:

    mbrace said:

    I simply am not talking to big picture people. I’m sure that there are IQ issues here. You are incapable of recognizing that larger problems are almost always the accumulation of smaller problems that went unchecked. I protest at least 2 of the boss fights for Herald, because any one of these fights represents a pattern that should not be repeated. What it really means is that Cavalier is bound to contain fights that only one or two champs could get through, and this is really going to annoy people. Some may want to quit over it in frustration that their crystal pulls have not favored them.

    My issue is not skill, nor having enough ranked champs, nor being able to understand the nodes. You guys deviated to all those things in ignoring the key issue. None of them change the fact that one cannot defeat Herald Doctor Doom or Void without using revives, unless they have a ranked up champ from a very short list of viable counters. So instead of me opening another 300 crystals with hopes of getting HT, why doesn’t Kabam just not design fights this way?

    Once again, the quest is not gated to star rarity. You can use 4 star counters if you have skill. Human torch is not the only counter to Doom. The game involved bringing counters to specific champs and nodes. If you are cavalier, I must assume you should have a decent roster of 4 star.

    4* HT is not sustainable enough to finish the fight, honestly. One clip or a block and you will be finished. Doom’s block penetration is off the charts. That’s like saying one could have used 4* CAIW and SS to complete the 6.2.6. I did use a R3 BWCV to do Herald Air-Walker, and that’s only because she can heal chip damage and a lot of the dark tide DoT.

    You also didn’t listen to anything. The 5/65 max signature Void That is used should be a counter to Doom. He doesn’t work very well on Herald without a few revives. Void has always been a good counter to Doom, and suddenly he’s just OK. Please send some footage of you having a decent fight with him using anybody besides HT. I know you cannot provide this and probably also never tried the fight. I also have a 5/65 max signature Thing who tickles him. I mean seriously, this is not right. Again, if the nodes were not so poorly constructed, then either Void or Thing should give him a run for his money. Again, I already found a workaround in that I just won’t bother at all and use Doom as an attacker on a day he can one-shot (easily against Air-Walker), using all of my entries on the same day. I would much rather enjoy playing the game each day against each boss, mix the rewards up and have some fun. So Herald is no longer a problem for me unless you want to keep having tunnel vision, but I do have a problem with it. There is a big difference. The remaining problem is that more poorly designed fights are bound to arise if somebody doesn’t say something about it now.
  • mbracembrace Member Posts: 898 ★★★
    ItsDamien said:

    mbrace said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    mbrace said:

    I simply am not talking to big picture people. I’m sure that there are IQ issues here. You are incapable of recognizing that larger problems are almost always the accumulation of smaller problems that went unchecked. I protest at least 2 of the boss fights for Herald, because any one of these fights represents a pattern that should not be repeated. What it really means is that Cavalier is bound to contain fights that only one or two champs could get through, and this is really going to annoy people. Some may want to quit over it in frustration that their crystal pulls have not favored them.

    My issue is not skill, nor having enough ranked champs, nor being able to understand the nodes. You guys deviated to all those things in ignoring the key issue. None of them change the fact that one cannot defeat Herald Doctor Doom or Void without using revives, unless they have a ranked up champ from a very short list of viable counters. So instead of me opening another 300 crystals with hopes of getting HT, why doesn’t Kabam just not design fights this way?

    Your issues go way beyond not having skill. Way beyond.

    Mbrace your failures. Please, please just let it go.
    So far you have used every cliche insult, personal attack, and criticism that trolls use on other non-constructive threads. You don’t want to discuss a problem or talk about real solutions. You want to argue. What I’m flagging and proposing are very reasonable. You’d rather get the last word than make the game better, so please shut it. 🤑🤮
    You're proposing they raise the PI. Many people have tried to tell you that this is exactly what people DO NOT want, as it RAISES ATTACK VALUES AND HP, which is exactly what they're nerfing in Act 6. How many times do people need to tell you this to get it into your thick head?
    No, I’m proposing that the PI gets raised by the same percent as it gets raised from Master to Epic. You are the only one who doesn’t see that this is the minimum necessary bump. Then, I’m saying let’s not get too carried away with the extra nodes. This is extremely reasonable, but I forgot that I’m talking to people that need to process this information slowly and must be told in the clearest manner possible.

    About that, the other guy who said use 4* probably won’t be able to follow what I said either. I would draw a picture, preferably in cartoon form, but I’ll try with a quick word summary:

    4* HT is a better counter but too weak to be sustainable. He would need more revives than a 5/65 Void, who isn’t the best counter but has a massive health pool, although he is OK (just for Herald). A 5/65 HT would be the best counter and would need zero revives, because the fight is made for him.
  • mbracembrace Member Posts: 898 ★★★
    The predictable response is that said person would say “If you had skill, why would you ever take any damage?” Show me somebody on the planet that can take down a 65k Doom, buffed to the stars, without blocking or parrying at all. I believe without testing that a non-parry block from a 4* HT against that particular Doom would take his entire health bar. Please stop with the petty diversion about “skill”. Apparently, R3 BWCV is not impressive against a Herald Air-Walker. I’m sorry, I thought that was pretty good. That’s the extent of my skill. Maybe not the best, but at least pretty good.
  • PulyamanPulyaman Member Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★
    mbrace said:

    Pulyaman said:

    mbrace said:

    I simply am not talking to big picture people. I’m sure that there are IQ issues here. You are incapable of recognizing that larger problems are almost always the accumulation of smaller problems that went unchecked. I protest at least 2 of the boss fights for Herald, because any one of these fights represents a pattern that should not be repeated. What it really means is that Cavalier is bound to contain fights that only one or two champs could get through, and this is really going to annoy people. Some may want to quit over it in frustration that their crystal pulls have not favored them.

    My issue is not skill, nor having enough ranked champs, nor being able to understand the nodes. You guys deviated to all those things in ignoring the key issue. None of them change the fact that one cannot defeat Herald Doctor Doom or Void without using revives, unless they have a ranked up champ from a very short list of viable counters. So instead of me opening another 300 crystals with hopes of getting HT, why doesn’t Kabam just not design fights this way?

    Once again, the quest is not gated to star rarity. You can use 4 star counters if you have skill. Human torch is not the only counter to Doom. The game involved bringing counters to specific champs and nodes. If you are cavalier, I must assume you should have a decent roster of 4 star.

    4* HT is not sustainable enough to finish the fight, honestly. One clip or a block and you will be finished. Doom’s block penetration is off the charts. That’s like saying one could have used 4* CAIW and SS to complete the 6.2.6. I did use a R3 BWCV to do Herald Air-Walker, and that’s only because she can heal chip damage and a lot of the dark tide DoT.

    You also didn’t listen to anything. The 5/65 max signature Void That is used should be a counter to Doom. He doesn’t work very well on Herald without a few revives. Void has always been a good counter to Doom, and suddenly he’s just OK. Please send some footage of you having a decent fight with him using anybody besides HT. I know you cannot provide this and probably also never tried the fight. I also have a 5/65 max signature Thing who tickles him. I mean seriously, this is not right. Again, if the nodes were not so poorly constructed, then either Void or Thing should give him a run for his money. Again, I already found a workaround in that I just won’t bother at all and use Doom as an attacker on a day he can one-shot (easily against Air-Walker), using all of my entries on the same day. I would much rather enjoy playing the game each day against each boss, mix the rewards up and have some fun. So Herald is no longer a problem for me unless you want to keep having tunnel vision, but I do have a problem with it. There is a big difference. The remaining problem is that more poorly designed fights are bound to arise if somebody doesn’t say something about it now.
    When you say skill, I say bring 4 star, and then you say they cannot survive a clip or block damage. I am not going to argue that the fights are very roster based and require specific champs. But, you have 6 days. You can pick the strongest class for your roster and try. If the event was designed so that you need to do everyday, I would be right there with you. But, this was a well thought out event. And a person going to act 6.2 and beyond should have at least 1 strong class. I also don't understand your problem with Doom, he is not debuff immune. You take in Void with Mr.fantastic and apply the petrify at the start of fight. Shuts down his aura and you can play your natural game. Without his aura, his nullify abilities are gone. Bring in KM for more sustainability if you want. I assume you have no problem with the path.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 20,085 Guardian
    mbrace said:

    None of them change the fact that one cannot defeat Herald Doctor Doom or Void without using revives, unless they have a ranked up champ from a very short list of viable counters.

    I ask again: what is this very short list of viable counters? As my low IQ mind can't grasp the big picture, I'm trying to focus on this very small one.
  • mbracembrace Member Posts: 898 ★★★
    edited August 2020
    Well, you are insane. A 4* HT is extremely unrealistic against that high of a Doom. No skill could cover the disadvantage in order to one-shot. You would need to run a perfect fight, and I have never said I was that good. 5/65 compared to a max 4* has 2.25x the health and 2.25x the damage. If you combine the two into one overall factor of time spent in the match, you’ll be 4.5x less effective with a 4*. So if a 5/65 HT can one-shot Doom and finish with a little bit of health left, then the 4* is going to take at least 4-5 revives. This is all very obvious, and your idea is kind of ...dumb.

    For comparison, using my 5/65, I think I used 3 revives after taking 20% of his health with 5/65 Thing. So it might be close with the 4* HT, and both options are poor.
  • BerjibsBerjibs Member Posts: 1,541 ★★★★
    Pulyaman said:

    Berjibs said:

    I don’t think it’s anywhere near as bad as mbrace is making out but I do have some sympathy for the narrow counter viewpoint.

    It is a direction kabam said they would move away from, I’m looking at the sinister fight here as an example though rather than the champion. I’ve luckily had counters to that one but it’s a constant roadblock in my alliances for people with fairly well developed rosters that otherwise easily have the skill to take him down. Hopefully even if things stay as is the new class crystals help out a bit in that respect.

    I’ve only played the shard days of herald as I want the generic stones, aarkus and doom both feel fairly narrow in pure counters to me, though I could be wrong, not thought about it too hard thus far.

    The shock on doom for eg from dexing (was using champs otherwise buff free like torch or void) was what killed me almost every time. I can think of duped capiw and RG being good pure counters for that fight, who else can keep up the damage and reliably avoid the shock?

    I think what is compounding the frustrations for some people is the format of the quest. In a normal cav eq you will be able to exit, run the quest again and explore counters or fight tactics without missing out on rewards, just at the cost of energy. Personally that’s how I prefer to run content rather than spending through with units or resources, as you learn something to take forwards. This side quest pressures (not forces) you into doing whatever it takes finish the quest as you otherwise lose those rewards you've committed to earning and can’t re-enter.

    For those getting frustrated maybe keep that in mind.

    But, any champ with a slow or petrify also work against Doom. She hulk, spidergwen, stealth spidey, Sorceror supreme, Mr. Fantastic synergy. I admit, it is a short list if champs, but they work on Doom. I admit, I did not try Doom day, but unless something prevents you from applying debuffs, they should work. Right?
    Ah ok didn’t know the aura was source of nullify, I’ll just play slower with void and hope I don’t get shocked when the petrify drops off. Got a new RG to rank up there as backup. Maybe take void to r5 too.

    I think his 20k attack certainly wouldn’t help SH apply enough slows to get the job done. It’s a long fight when you never crit and she is a bit flimsy on the block. Maybe there is an interval you can get a heavy in without getting touched?

    But tbh on the account i have Shulk and stealth, omega gets him down anyway.



  • PulyamanPulyaman Member Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★
    mbrace said:

    Well, you are insane. A 4* HT is extremely unrealistic against that high of a Doom. No skill could cover the disadvantage in order to one-shot. You would need to run a perfect fight, and I have never said I was that good. 5/65 compared to a max 4* has 2.25x the health and 2.25x the damage. If you combine the two into one overall factor of time spent in the match, you’ll be 4.5x less effective with a 4*. So if a 5/65 HT can one-shot Doom and finish with a little bit of health left, then the 4* is going to take at least 4-5 revives. This is all very obvious, and your idea is kind of ...dumb.

    For comparison, using my 5/65, I think I used 3 revives after taking 20% of his health with 5/65 Thing. So it might be close with the 4* HT, and both options are poor.

    You seem to be fixated on a single fight. My idea is dumb? I am seeing abyss fights done with 4 star torch with a few revives. I also gave you options for using Void. Even better, don't run that day if you feel it is bs. And that is for everyone who has the problem. If you don't have all the counters for Doom, run some other day. What was the point of giving a choice, if all people do is moan. I have a friend who is cavalier, but decided to run only epic after watching the videos on the first day. This is not story quest where you need to complete to progress in game. Everyone must realize that.
  • mbracembrace Member Posts: 898 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    mbrace said:

    None of them change the fact that one cannot defeat Herald Doctor Doom or Void without using revives, unless they have a ranked up champ from a very short list of viable counters.

    I ask again: what is this very short list of viable counters? As my low IQ mind can't grasp the big picture, I'm trying to focus on this very small one.
    It’s actually HT, that’s about it. On top of that, he’s not a perfect counter. That’s why the 4* isn’t going to work. Thing, Void, Blade, Starky, Wasp, Ghost, Sunspot, Red Hulk, She-Hulk, Gwenpool, and probably a host of others would be on the shortlist if it was the old Uncollected EQ fight, but now for Herald they are all just OK. You’ll likely need to revive multiple times. HT was always beyond them for mystics, kills fast, and has a powerful DoT that is an Achilles Heel for Doom. So now he’s the one that can one-shot for the decently skilled player. He won’t do it will full health due to Doom’s massive block penetration and some troublesome nodes, one making his specials unblockable regardless of the Aura. Now you would have to evade perfectly to come out with a lot of health left. So it’s a tough fight either way, but HT is set apart.

    Do you want to go through a short-list for each boss, or can we end this deliberate distraction?

    For Void, I pointed out the issue to be mainly Mix-Master combined with his brutal DoT, giving only a small window to lay damage on. Weakness debuffs didn’t help but were only icing on the cake. You will not get a lot of damage in due to Mix-Master and having to parry more. Solution: shrug off the debuffs and/or avoid them. Unreliably, you could try Crossbones and Agent Venom, except they suck. Reliably, you could use Blade, Aegon, or Bloodstone. You could use Aarkus if you could time it right, but no class advantage and really long ramp up. Now Blade is not completely reliable either, and I’m sure we’d all like to have Aegon. I don’t. For a perfect fight, you can use Elsa Bloodstone. She has abilities that take control of everything. I have an R3, and I’ll try her as is for fun. Again, there is a sloppy list of OK champs that simply get damage in before they die. Colossus parry/heavy and a ramped up Cull Obsidian should take a good chunk out. Again, how about not having to use revives?

    To humor you:

    Sinister: generally not bad to counter (Warlock, also good champ with despair and a few debuffs)
    Mysterio: too easy to counter (Venom, Cull, Corvus, Aarkus, etc., too many to list)
    Air-Walker: kind of easy (at least Doom, BWCV, SS, likely many more)
    Aarkus: somewhat exclusive (Doom and probably any nullify champ with MD, but Doom is the one that avoids the DoT, Sasquatch if you had him)
    Mole Man: moderately exclusive (Any champ can chip away, Iceman and Emma to avoid being stunned)

    I’ve only said that Void and Doom were poorly designed, so please go on about some better counters to these.
  • mbracembrace Member Posts: 898 ★★★
    @DNA3000 I’m sorry to see you in the bunch that thinks everything is fine. I had more respect for you and your posts.
  • mbracembrace Member Posts: 898 ★★★
    edited August 2020
    Disagree with me being disappointed with DNA3000? LOL. For the love, goodbye! I’m disappointed because I’ve agreed with almost everything he/she ever posted. Usually DNA3000 is a voice of reason. I have found external advice on his web posts to be very accurate and useful. Yet, not seeing the negative similarity between some of these fights and 6.2.6 mistakes? Shame, shame. It is implied by that that there was nothing wrong with the 6.2.6 fight, except that there really was. Kabam took the nerf too far, but block penetration was definitely too high, and 5 charges was a bit much. I would have cut the penetration in half and made it 4 charges.
  • ItsDamienItsDamien Member Posts: 5,626 ★★★★★
    mbrace said:

    Disagree with me being disappointed with DNA3000? LOL. For the love, goodbye! I’m disappointed because I’ve agreed with almost everything he/she ever posted. Usually DNA3000 is a voice of reason. I have found external advice on his web posts to be very accurate and useful. Yet, not seeing the negative similarity between some of these fights and 6.2.6 mistakes? Shame, shame. It is implied by that that there was nothing wrong with the 6.2.6 fight, except that there really was. Kabam took the nerf too far, but block penetration was definitely too high, and 5 charges was a bit much. I would have cut the penetration in half and made it 4 charges.

    I'm disagreeing with you because he gave a very reasonable reply to you, and just because you didn't like what he had to say, you say you lost respect. Respect is supposed to being able to take someone's else's opinion even if they don't agree with your own ideology.

    And once again, Void is still the most skill based fight out of all the Herald days, and can be done easily with any Skill champion if you play correctly. If you don't play the fight as it's meant to be fought, then of course you're going to get debuffed and lose. If you can't understand that the fight is strategy and skill based and not dependant on who you use, I fully believe it is you who is lacking in the intellect department.

    Again, you're entitled to your very, extremely, wrong opinion. We are all entitled to point that out and mock you for it.
  • Mr_PlatypusMr_Platypus Member Posts: 2,779 ★★★★★
    edited August 2020
    I mean you missed off spidergwen and red guardian who can apply slow to disable his aura (the source of the nullify),

    CapIW you could use a skill champ to shrug the shock immediately, bring a tech to apply petrify to deal with his aura. Also has a synergy that cuts all damage aside from that coming from direct hits in half (this includes damage from debuffs and blocking), I personally used that synergy in my runs last week.

    Just having mr fantastic on the team allows ANYONE to have a 12 second petrify that can be refreshed with knockdown (doom only resists knockdown with aura).

    Sorcerer supreme, also has access to slow.

    Now I’ll admit I don’t remember if one of the nodes let’s him ignore the whole “can’t activate aura when affected by a slow or petrify debuff” but I’m pretty sure he doesn’t soo yeah, very restricting fight.
  • mbracembrace Member Posts: 898 ★★★
    edited August 2020
    Mr_Platypus said:

    I mean you missed off spidergwen and red guardian who can apply slow to disable his aura (the source of the nullify),

    CapIW you could use a skill champ to shrug the shock immediately, bring a tech to apply petrify to deal with his aura. Also has a synergy that cuts all damage aside from that coming from direct hits in half (this includes damage from debuffs and blocking), I personally used that synergy in my runs last week.

    Just having mr fantastic on the team allows ANYONE to have a 12 second petrify that can be refreshed with knockdown (doom only resists knockdown with aura).

    Sorcerer supreme, also has access to slow.

    Now I’ll admit I don’t remember if one of the nodes let’s him ignore the whole “can’t activate aura when affected by a slow or petrify debuff” but I’m pretty sure he doesn’t soo yeah, very restricting fight.

    Neither petrify nor slow are very useful in that fight. Aura of Haazareth is a small issue, even though that is usually the main issue. Did you actually try RG, Spider-Gwen, CAIW, or Sorcerer Supreme. I don’t think they are going to do too well. You have to do a lot of damage fast because he just hits so hard through your block and throws a lot of specials at you. I know that the issue with Void and Thing is that they take a long time to reach their potential, and you don’t have that much time. HT against a mystic just ramps up so fast and does huge DoT to Doom. He’s actually just powering through in the end, but he does such a good job of it.
  • mbracembrace Member Posts: 898 ★★★
    I mean, I’m not going to try fighting against Doom again. Even if all those counters were alright, I’m trying to get past alright and not have to use any resources. Additionally, those are pretty new champs. I should have CAIW, but’s he’s one of the ones that he evaded me for years. Probably if I had him, I’d have a lot less problems in the game and would have finished 6.2.6 last year. SG is the only one I could try, but she’s just so squishy. Herald Doom is out of her league now. I remember using her on UC EQ Doom, and she wasn’t too bad.
  • Mr_PlatypusMr_Platypus Member Posts: 2,779 ★★★★★
    I took torch, CapIW, thing, void and a random Gulk. Used torch for doom and if I missed up I mopped up with thing.
    I’d bring red guardian or spider Gwen but I’ve not gotten round to bringing them to 5/65, and if I’m doing the same quest 7 times in a day I just want it over and done with.
    But either way, I think they’ll do just fine, RG has nice burst potential, as well as perfect block, no buffs and slow. SG has enervate, slow, auto evade on specials and again, nice burst potential.
    Obviously torch is the fastest option, but there’s always going to be one option that’s better than the others.
    I’d be happy to agree if it was only reasonably doable with 2 champs, like 6.3.6 acid wash mysterio, but there are multiple options, might be slower, might require even more perfect play, but they’re most certainly there.
  • mbracembrace Member Posts: 898 ★★★
    If you go back to the OP’s title, he said “deplete our resources”. He never said the fights were impossible. Well, “false hope”, maybe he did. I don’t agree with that. It’s just that after using the last of my revives on Herald in the last week, I was sure that something was wrong. I found this post and tried to explain why the Void fight is a poor combination of nodes and inherent ability. Of course, it’s not impossible that Kabam initially put that together without thinking that it might be too much. Maybe they already know this now and would make the fights more like some of the other days. Trying to see it both ways here, it is possible that they made some fights easy and some fights hard to see what people would say about either scenario. My hope is that Cavalier will be somewhere in between and this is a lot of wasted concern.
This discussion has been closed.