P.S.A. - Black Cat and Scorpion will be the start of the new rebalance program!!

Wozzle007 · April 2022

Kabam Miike said:

Lpoo said:

SkyLord7000 said:
It’s just scary know that any new champion you pull will be “balanced” six months after it’s released. Even if it ends up being executed perfectly there will now always be a fear factor that isn’t healthy.

Dislike the rating system too, a lot of Champions have similar utility ratings to quake without having close to her level of utility. Don’t think it’s a good metric to balance off of.

These reasons and the slow buff program are my dislikes. I am looking forward to champs being useful if they weren’t initially.
I think this is the point that makes me more anxious, and I can't believe that Kabam is confident that featured crystal sales won't be heavily influenced by the rebalancing program. Knowing that Black Cat and Scorpion are subject to the program, who would be willing to shell away their own money for something that is not guaranteed?
So, I get where this is coming from, but literally every Champion released ever has been open to rebalancing, and many of them have been. This is no different, it's just now finally formalized and gives players more say in the process. We've had to adjust Champions shortly after release many times, and if anything, this should give you MORE confidence in the fact that a Champion that isn't as good as expected is going to be buffed to be better.

I will say this again, if this program had been in place for the last year, there would have been significantly more Buffs than nerfs.

Kabam has a such a rich history of not delivering on what they say that I have NO confidence at all in this. You talk about things in your roadmaps, you don’t deliver on them, you don’t communicate about them. You don’t keep the community updated at all. The communication is as low as it’s ever been and that’s saying something.

As @TheKiryu has already pointed, you’ve flat out lied to the community about the conditions for the rebalancing going live.

So why should we have any faith or trust in anything you’ve said here. Why would anyone risk buying something that has the potential to be downgraded? Please try and justify why people should continue to spend money on purchasing something that could end up being worse down the line?

And what say are we going to have in this process? We tried to have our say with the Guillotine change and look what happened there. We’ve tried to have our say with the AW Potions and Kabam does what Kabam does, make unilateral decisions that the vast majority of your customers disagree with. Kabam will ultimately do whatever it wants, but when customers provide you feedback and it’s ignored, when they put forward there frustrations and negative feelings and you keep on ignoring them it will impact on how they play the game, often by not spending money it.

Lpoo · April 2022

Kabam Miike said:

Lpoo said:

SkyLord7000 said:
It’s just scary know that any new champion you pull will be “balanced” six months after it’s released. Even if it ends up being executed perfectly there will now always be a fear factor that isn’t healthy.

Dislike the rating system too, a lot of Champions have similar utility ratings to quake without having close to her level of utility. Don’t think it’s a good metric to balance off of.

These reasons and the slow buff program are my dislikes. I am looking forward to champs being useful if they weren’t initially.
I think this is the point that makes me more anxious, and I can't believe that Kabam is confident that featured crystal sales won't be heavily influenced by the rebalancing program. Knowing that Black Cat and Scorpion are subject to the program, who would be willing to shell away their own money for something that is not guaranteed?
So, I get where this is coming from, but literally every Champion released ever has been open to rebalancing, and many of them have been. This is no different, it's just now finally formalized and gives players more say in the process. We've had to adjust Champions shortly after release many times, and if anything, this should give you MORE confidence in the fact that a Champion that isn't as good as expected is going to be buffed to be better.

I will say this again, if this program had been in place for the last year, there would have been significantly more Buffs than nerfs.

I understand. But when someone buys featured crystals, they are going off of the assumption that this champion will remain the same from crystal opening all the way through everyday use. Post release changes are still pretty rare. If there was something that were to change after release, the community usually throws its collective hands in the air and protests. (i.e. Hercules)

But now that the rebalancing system explicitly states that champions can change within 6 months, I know I will discontinue going after featured crystals, and I can’t fit the square peg of explanation into the circle hole of logic as to why anyone would spend money ever again on them.

I hope I’m wrong

Zeraphan · April 2022

Kabam Miike said:

Lpoo said:

SkyLord7000 said:
It’s just scary know that any new champion you pull will be “balanced” six months after it’s released. Even if it ends up being executed perfectly there will now always be a fear factor that isn’t healthy.

Dislike the rating system too, a lot of Champions have similar utility ratings to quake without having close to her level of utility. Don’t think it’s a good metric to balance off of.

These reasons and the slow buff program are my dislikes. I am looking forward to champs being useful if they weren’t initially.
I think this is the point that makes me more anxious, and I can't believe that Kabam is confident that featured crystal sales won't be heavily influenced by the rebalancing program. Knowing that Black Cat and Scorpion are subject to the program, who would be willing to shell away their own money for something that is not guaranteed?
So, I get where this is coming from, but literally every Champion released ever has been open to rebalancing, and many of them have been. This is no different, it's just now finally formalized and gives players more say in the process. We've had to adjust Champions shortly after release many times, and if anything, this should give you MORE confidence in the fact that a Champion that isn't as good as expected is going to be buffed to be better.

I will say this again, if this program had been in place for the last year, there would have been significantly more Buffs than nerfs.

I have never read a comment that gives me less faith in Kabam than this one. By stating that had this been in place before there would have been significantly more Buffs than Nerfs you are clearly stating that Kabam is aware of how many champs are bad and people are unhappy and willingly chose to Nerf good champions that people liked down instead of fixing the ones you knew were bad. That you knew the champs that were bad didn't meet expectations y'all had but chose to go the other route anyway is mind blowing.

You have basically just said "trust us, we chose not to treat the game and its players right originally but now we promise we are going to treat everyone right" and think this will give us confidence to try and get a new champ right away instead of waiting for the 6 month period to end to see what the champ is actually going to be like.

Since this game came out, even with 12.0, I have never been this disappointed...

Demonzfyre · April 2022

AverageDesi said:

KaLikOT said:

GroundedWisdom said:

KaLikOT said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Indrick781 said:

Kabam Miike said:

Lpoo said:

SkyLord7000 said:
It’s just scary know that any new champion you pull will be “balanced” six months after it’s released. Even if it ends up being executed perfectly there will now always be a fear factor that isn’t healthy.

Dislike the rating system too, a lot of Champions have similar utility ratings to quake without having close to her level of utility. Don’t think it’s a good metric to balance off of.

These reasons and the slow buff program are my dislikes. I am looking forward to champs being useful if they weren’t initially.
I think this is the point that makes me more anxious, and I can't believe that Kabam is confident that featured crystal sales won't be heavily influenced by the rebalancing program. Knowing that Black Cat and Scorpion are subject to the program, who would be willing to shell away their own money for something that is not guaranteed?
So, I get where this is coming from, but literally every Champion released ever has been open to rebalancing, and many of them have been. This is no different, it's just now finally formalized and gives players more say in the process. We've had to adjust Champions shortly after release many times, and if anything, this should give you MORE confidence in the fact that a Champion that isn't as good as expected is going to be buffed to be better.

I will say this again, if this program had been in place for the last year, there would have been significantly more Buffs than nerfs.
Rebalances should be done before champions are offered for real money. Your "rebalance" program has convinced me to never buy featured cavs again. If it happened last year, I wouldn't have bought any last year either. It could be 99.9999% buffs and I still wouldn't have confidence in Kabam getting it right.
That's virtually impossible with the way this game operates. They're not testing for months and months on an automated server. There is data that can only be collected from the multitude of situations that come from live game play. It's an ongoing and ever-changing process, and it's been this way as long as the game has existed. It's not an end-user program that we purchase.
Mr. GroundedWisdom can you give an example of a data that can only be collected in live gameplay but not on beta servers?
Can you create a beta atmosphere that replicates thousands of Players in various scenarios?
Im pretty sure they can add thousands of players in beta.

GroundedWisdom said:

ThatGuyYouSaw235 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

World Eater said:

caustic said:

World Eater said:

GroundedWisdom said:

World Eater said:

Kabam Miike said:

Lpoo said:

SkyLord7000 said:
It’s just scary know that any new champion you pull will be “balanced” six months after it’s released. Even if it ends up being executed perfectly there will now always be a fear factor that isn’t healthy.

Dislike the rating system too, a lot of Champions have similar utility ratings to quake without having close to her level of utility. Don’t think it’s a good metric to balance off of.

These reasons and the slow buff program are my dislikes. I am looking forward to champs being useful if they weren’t initially.
I think this is the point that makes me more anxious, and I can't believe that Kabam is confident that featured crystal sales won't be heavily influenced by the rebalancing program. Knowing that Black Cat and Scorpion are subject to the program, who would be willing to shell away their own money for something that is not guaranteed?
So, I get where this is coming from, but literally every Champion released ever has been open to rebalancing, and many of them have been. This is no different, it's just now finally formalized and gives players more say in the process. We've had to adjust Champions shortly after release many times, and if anything, this should give you MORE confidence in the fact that a Champion that isn't as good as expected is going to be buffed to be better.

I will say this again, if this program had been in place for the last year, there would have been significantly more Buffs than nerfs.
So…….. these 2 are or are not part of this rebalancing thing ?? Would be nice to get a clear answer.
Yes they are. It was already announced.
You are not kabam. You’re more like spam.

Where is this announcement from kabam ?? Post a link

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/298622/delaying-champion-attributes-and-champion-balance-updates#latest
Yeah, I looked and looked and couldn't find it either. Someone posted a "supposed" link where it was announced, but no where in that thread was it stated they were subject to the balancing program. I mean, I know they don't have the best track record here, but this is extremely poor communication.
Of course you can’t find it. Kabam hasn’t said anything since early march, but that’s not stoping a certain websnatcher from lying and saying it was announced.
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/300777/champion-attributes-live-on-scorpion-black-cat-and-more/p1
Let's see:

A warm greeting, a refresher on what their attributes system is, them clearing up what misconceptions there may be. The establishment that they applied this attribute system to Scorpion and Black Cat.

No words about Scorpion and Black Cat being part of the rebalance system.

Try again.
READ. THE. TITLE.
Right, it says champion attributes are live on Black cat AND MORE. Nothing about rebalance

In the delay announcement they said rebalancing goes live when champ attributes are released.

TheBoogyMan · April 2022

Chovner said:
Just watched a video from KT1 noting that some of the CCP members have found out that Black Cat and Scorpion will start off the new champ rebalance program.

I'm posting this because it's not formally announced to my knowledge and it's important for everyone to know so they can take that into consideration when either spending money/units on their Cav Crystals or spending their time/money/units when they're released into the arena (Black Cat arena starting tomorrow).

The last post Kabam announced about delaying the rebalance program when Omega Sentinel and Betsy Braddock were released also noted they would provide a launch date for the rebalance program that was never provided to my knowledge. If I'm wrong please share a link to where they announce these 2 new champs are officially starting off the rebalance program.

Thanks

And there hasn't even been a single in game announcement about it.

I had asked about the timelines for in game announcement but wasn't given any. At the time people were saying me that it's too early for them to make the in game announcement, but now it's too late to make an in game announcement.

Glad that I'm f2p so i don't really need to worry about the rebalancing.

Personally I'm hoping this brings some good changes to new champs who aren't that great at release. Makes things interesting and fresh!

Demonzfyre · April 2022

It literally says we will launch this system when we announce the attributes for approximately 100 champs. They announced the attributes with black cat and scorpion.

The first paragraph said they were going to launch the system along with 30 champs.

AverageDesi · April 2022

Demonzfyre said:

It literally says we will launch this system when we announce the attributes for approximately 100 champs. They announced the attributes with black cat and scorpion.

The first paragraph said they were going to launch the system along with 30 champs.

Yes. Have they relaaed attributes for approximately 100 champs?

Demonzfyre · April 2022

AverageDesi said:

Demonzfyre said:

It literally says we will launch this system when we announce the attributes for approximately 100 champs. They announced the attributes with black cat and scorpion.

The first paragraph said they were going to launch the system along with 30 champs.
Yes. Have they relaaed attributes for approximately 100 champs?

Yes. Attributes are live on many champs...I don't know how many they are live on but they are there.

AverageDesi · April 2022

Demonzfyre said:

AverageDesi said:

Demonzfyre said:

It literally says we will launch this system when we announce the attributes for approximately 100 champs. They announced the attributes with black cat and scorpion.

The first paragraph said they were going to launch the system along with 30 champs.
Yes. Have they relaaed attributes for approximately 100 champs?
Yes. Attributes are live on many champs...I don't know how many they are live on but they are there.

Their website shows only a list of 25 champs

Demonzfyre · April 2022

AverageDesi said:

Demonzfyre said:

AverageDesi said:

Demonzfyre said:

It literally says we will launch this system when we announce the attributes for approximately 100 champs. They announced the attributes with black cat and scorpion.

The first paragraph said they were going to launch the system along with 30 champs.
Yes. Have they relaaed attributes for approximately 100 champs?
Yes. Attributes are live on many champs...I don't know how many they are live on but they are there.
Their website shows only a list of 25 champs

It does say "approximately" but that's a pretty big stretch. I think the big picture is that they said in that announcement it was coming with attributes launch. Why there isn't around 100 champs, I don't know but at bare minimum, they said both would start at the same time.

mostlyharmlessn · April 2022

First off I appreciate the OP bringing attention to this. The idea of the rebalance program completely left my mind. Like so many other aspects of the game, people need to decide for themselves if it is worth the risk/reward when doing things in the game.

Modification of champs has always happened, from clear and cut nerf/buff/reworks, to frame rate adjustments that end up modifying a champ, we really could never rely on a champ we get today will be the same even a month from now.

Wicket329 · April 2022

Good lord, why does everybody *want* to be angry about this?

Correct, there was never an announcement specifically stating that Scorpion and Black Cat would be the first champions assessed under this new program and therefore subject to potential rebalancing. There are multiple posts that people can point at that *almost* say that and where a reasonable person could infer it, but nowhere is it explicitly stated, and that’s the point of contention here.

I, like several others in this thread, just assumed they would be the first ones in the program because of context clues. I guessed the delay would be for one month unless we heard otherwise, and I figured that with the big announcement of the launch of attributes (and specifically naming Scorpion and Black Cat), that meant it was go time. But again, it was never explicitly laid out, and I understand that many players reasonably want to have information from the development team made crystal clear especially when the schedule on this had already been bounced around.

Neither stance is ridiculous or unreasonable to take. There’s no need to be hollering at each other.

I do take issue with the contention that Kabam “flat out lied” in regard to this issue. This may be the lawyer in me, but lying requires intent to deceive that I just don’t see here. I think they changed their plans and communicated that fact in a sub-optimal way, but there was nothing intentionally deceptive about that.

As a general rule, I try not to assume malice when ignorance or incompetence could just as likely be the explanation. People are dumb before they are mean, and there’s not really a benefit to lying about this in the way that they allegedly did.

Anyway, it’ll be six months before we see the actual impact of their inclusion in the program. If y’all want to stay mad that long, be my guest. I’ll forego the wrinkles and just see how it shakes out when the time comes.

BitterSteel · April 2022

Wicket329 said:

I do take issue with the contention that Kabam “flat out lied” in regard to this issue. This may be the lawyer in me, but lying requires intent to deceive that I just don’t see here. I think they changed their plans and communicated that fact in a sub-optimal way, but there was nothing intentionally deceptive about that.

As a general rule, I try not to assume malice when ignorance or incompetence could just as likely be the explanation. People are dumb before they are mean, and there’s not really a benefit to lying about this in the way that they allegedly did.

Anyway, it’ll be six months before we see the actual impact of their inclusion in the program. If y’all want to stay mad that long, be my guest. I’ll forego the wrinkles and just see how it shakes out when the time comes.

Yeah I completely agree. Kabam could definitely have been clearer, but I don’t see where they lied. I’ll add my voice behind asking them to take more care in ensuring what they say is clear and any changes of plans are communicated - but shouting they lied and accusing them of purposely befuddling the player base has some serious “two minutes of hate” vibes.

Most people will be angry about this for a couple of days before the next slight mishap is exaggerated to be the next thing everyone is furious about.

I think YouTubers who take this and use it to say Kabam are lying have a slight responsibility to not to stoke up hate. I think asking kabam where this slight breakdown in communication happened before jumping to saying they flat out lied would be very helpful to not creating and perpetuating the toxicity that can be found in the community.

I mean, someone said this is the worst they’ve felt since 12.0, really? This slight issue is the worst you’ve felt? Would you think that in a weeks time when everything has calmed down..

Kabam said they would launch the system with 100, and there are 25. They heavily, heavily implied that black cat and scorp are the first for the system - the announcement said attributes are live on those champs and they had previously said that when the attributes go live the balancing system will too. It’s like they said 2+2 and have expected the player base can figure out that means 4. Yes they didn’t say explicitly the attribute system is starting now and that means the the first champions released after will have the balancing - but they sure gave you all the ingredients to work that out.

In future, I’d hope they just go ahead and say 2+2= 4 to avoid any doubt of people misunderstanding.

Everything that has happened has an explanation that doesn’t necessarily mean Kabam lied, why are people so desperate to believe Kabam are lying when it could equally just be a change of plan to launch with the 25 instead? Why not wait, press pause on your anger and see what kabam says about releasing with 25 instead of 100 - maybe the answer isn’t as damning as you seem to want it to be.

Plans change, it doesn’t mean they lied.

TheBair123 · April 2022

why are people getting so worked up about this? it can't possibly do that much harm, if any. if champs like herc and kitty were left alone, why would there be any reason to think that future champs that are good will get nerfed? people should reserve their judgement until we see how this actually pans out. if we get a champ like super-skrull in the future, he could be balanced to get better, and i think that would make a lot of people happy

DanveerKarna · April 2022

Kabam Miike said:

Lpoo said:

SkyLord7000 said:
It’s just scary know that any new champion you pull will be “balanced” six months after it’s released. Even if it ends up being executed perfectly there will now always be a fear factor that isn’t healthy.

Dislike the rating system too, a lot of Champions have similar utility ratings to quake without having close to her level of utility. Don’t think it’s a good metric to balance off of.

These reasons and the slow buff program are my dislikes. I am looking forward to champs being useful if they weren’t initially.
I think this is the point that makes me more anxious, and I can't believe that Kabam is confident that featured crystal sales won't be heavily influenced by the rebalancing program. Knowing that Black Cat and Scorpion are subject to the program, who would be willing to shell away their own money for something that is not guaranteed?
So, I get where this is coming from, but literally every Champion released ever has been open to rebalancing, and many of them have been. This is no different, it's just now finally formalized and gives players more say in the process. We've had to adjust Champions shortly after release many times, and if anything, this should give you MORE confidence in the fact that a Champion that isn't as good as expected is going to be buffed to be better.

I will say this again, if this program had been in place for the last year, there would have been significantly more Buffs than nerfs.

What happens to all those Beasts, Antmans, Classic DDs, Elektras, MKs and Groots? Had these been subjected to rebalancing we would have seen some updates to their kit. So what happens to them with new program? Cuz by the sound of it, seems like old champs would be eating the dust.

Kabam Zibiit · April 2022

DanveerKarna said:

Kabam Miike said:

Lpoo said:

SkyLord7000 said:
It’s just scary know that any new champion you pull will be “balanced” six months after it’s released. Even if it ends up being executed perfectly there will now always be a fear factor that isn’t healthy.

Dislike the rating system too, a lot of Champions have similar utility ratings to quake without having close to her level of utility. Don’t think it’s a good metric to balance off of.

These reasons and the slow buff program are my dislikes. I am looking forward to champs being useful if they weren’t initially.
I think this is the point that makes me more anxious, and I can't believe that Kabam is confident that featured crystal sales won't be heavily influenced by the rebalancing program. Knowing that Black Cat and Scorpion are subject to the program, who would be willing to shell away their own money for something that is not guaranteed?
So, I get where this is coming from, but literally every Champion released ever has been open to rebalancing, and many of them have been. This is no different, it's just now finally formalized and gives players more say in the process. We've had to adjust Champions shortly after release many times, and if anything, this should give you MORE confidence in the fact that a Champion that isn't as good as expected is going to be buffed to be better.

I will say this again, if this program had been in place for the last year, there would have been significantly more Buffs than nerfs.
What happens to all those Beasts, Antmans, Classic DDs, Elektras, MKs and Groots? Had these been subjected to rebalancing we would have seen some updates to their kit. So what happens to them with new program? Cuz by the sound of it, seems like old champs would be eating the dust.

As we mentioned in our original announcement, the new balancing cadence does not mean that older Champions aren't ever going to receive any updates. As stated in that post, if the data we collect after a Champion is released shows that they're meeting the design goals and we're content with what we're seeing in the gathered data, they may not require any changes. In those cases, the dev time that would've gone toward tuning them will be able to be spent on other balancing initiatives, like reworks for older Champions.

Additionally, to confirm, Black Cat and Scorpion are the first Champions under the new balancing program.

P.S.A. - Black Cat and Scorpion will be the start of the new rebalance program!!

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