Carina Challenge Compromise
Polygon
Member Posts: 4,555 ★★★★★
Feel like this issue hasn’t garnered enough recognition from the team. As we all know it has really divided the playerbase, especially with its bad timing of being introduced following one of the worst fights we’ve seen in woe Abs.
There’s been several valid points made across many different threads, So I don’t really think its necessary to regurgitate them all.
One thing thats worth mentioning is that when the EOP and Gauntlet originally launched, even though it was only r3 that was accessible at the time, the revive farm and energy farm was still out, so that reasoning cant really be applied (Karate Mike tried using that in a lot of his comments responding to feedback).
Also obviously the lack of resources to rank all the champs and signature stones for Avengers/Zemo challenges. Plus if you dont have a 7* mojo for the worst challenge (Pepe used 16 revives for warlock alone with 6* mojo)
All in all, given the restrictive nature and materials needed for these events, I think the event could have been better thought out before released.
With WoE lasting all year, and having to prioritize that, the argument that the Carinas are permanent challenge so they can just be put aside is just not as valid. If the Carinas were actually released BEFORE woe, that would have been a different story as we could actually focus our resources on that. But we saw how rough the first Woe fight was, and thats lasting all year long. Not to mention how rough the finales would be.
Anyway, I think its not too late to amend the challenges and restore faith in the community as a lot of players were under false hope that they could get the rewards without the difficulty being aimed for the top 500 players of the entire playerbase. That level of difficulty wasnt really communicated.
One possible way of compromise that I saw suggested by someone was to have 1 selector locked behind completion of half of the objectives and the 2nd one behind the full exploration.
And before you say no, we weren’t really communicated there would be 2 selectors either. And making it so 1 selector behind half of the objectives wouldnt really be game breaking as those champs really want the dupe either way...
Anyways if you don’t agree, then comment down what you think a potential compromise could be
There’s been several valid points made across many different threads, So I don’t really think its necessary to regurgitate them all.
One thing thats worth mentioning is that when the EOP and Gauntlet originally launched, even though it was only r3 that was accessible at the time, the revive farm and energy farm was still out, so that reasoning cant really be applied (Karate Mike tried using that in a lot of his comments responding to feedback).
Also obviously the lack of resources to rank all the champs and signature stones for Avengers/Zemo challenges. Plus if you dont have a 7* mojo for the worst challenge (Pepe used 16 revives for warlock alone with 6* mojo)
All in all, given the restrictive nature and materials needed for these events, I think the event could have been better thought out before released.
With WoE lasting all year, and having to prioritize that, the argument that the Carinas are permanent challenge so they can just be put aside is just not as valid. If the Carinas were actually released BEFORE woe, that would have been a different story as we could actually focus our resources on that. But we saw how rough the first Woe fight was, and thats lasting all year long. Not to mention how rough the finales would be.
Anyway, I think its not too late to amend the challenges and restore faith in the community as a lot of players were under false hope that they could get the rewards without the difficulty being aimed for the top 500 players of the entire playerbase. That level of difficulty wasnt really communicated.
One possible way of compromise that I saw suggested by someone was to have 1 selector locked behind completion of half of the objectives and the 2nd one behind the full exploration.
And before you say no, we weren’t really communicated there would be 2 selectors either. And making it so 1 selector behind half of the objectives wouldnt really be game breaking as those champs really want the dupe either way...
Anyways if you don’t agree, then comment down what you think a potential compromise could be
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Comments
So you can leave and ignore the other two challenges and let them be forgotten as they should be like most of us intend to and move on to better content.
For those who already completed 6 challenges, distribute the r3 gem crystal for them via mail (Both paragon and Valiants). In this way, the ones who already finished won't feel cheated.
Is r3 Random gem too much to ask?
You’re not supposed to complete the prompts in that fight - which makes the regen very avoidable.
If that's the intention, then I'll say it's a clever design.
Finn and Mike's challenges are more like do this complete event with this champ which don't focus on specific sets of defender but whoever comes on that long path. Offcourse they wouldn't have thought about that since "Ultra difficult content" justifies everything, it has no limits, it could have been even worse. It's tough to think of challenges like Lagacy where the choosen attacker is reasonable and shines throughout complete challenge and in best interest of both Kabam and Community.
But don't tag Finn, let him be at peace, we don't want him constantly justifying his challenges as well in forum.
And those who haven’t done it say this.
Implying that “no thought went into them” is genuinely mind boggling to read.
But you have done your job, any interpretation on ultimate challenge is right. Zemo and Avengers ones are good enough and fun if you have rankups on the specific champs and want to go all out on revives wherever applicable.
I think there can be some discussion on providing tools to get the necessary champions to usable ranks (not max rank. No free r5/ascension here, but usable ranks) for the challenges. That’s fair, and I hope I’m not putting words into any of the creators’ mouths when I say that I can’t imagine they’d have been opposed to the idea, at least in concept. But come on. You don’t think it’s rad that you can take some of the most ignored champions in the game into high end content and succeed? As the guy who took Darkhawk to R5 sig 200 for the #robot objective in WoW, I think that rules.
My only real complain is the rewards. I am having to level quite a few champs that I wouldn't have (Thor, Tigra and BW are minimum, since they aren't available as 7s).
I also don't have Ironman, Antman (should have selected him over Maw evidently), Mojo, or Jabari as 7s. So more rank ups (pending what 7 I get from 14 day calendar and my incursion crystal).
It's just a lot of catalysts to burn up to do these challenges without any given back.
It should absolutely be an R3 gem for completing all of these vs an R2 gem. Just lock up Fintech challenge to valiant progression so it isn't a way to become valiant.
Thanks for the content though @Lagacy @Fintech @Karatemike415
The answer is there just wasn't any real thought put into it. It's not an Avenger's challenge without Hulk. It's just a "well let me invoke the community rage" decision. Fin already said this. "I knew the community would rage" .. then why do it?
Using someone's freshly ranked R3 Hulk or freshly pulled Hulk to completely cheese it would have been really fun for a lot of people. And he isn't going to walk through the content anyway even at R3. But I suspect the personal reasons got the better of things in the end.
When you're making content for a community you think of the community first. Lagacy loves Stark Spidey ... he could have totally created some ridiculous challenge around Stark because a lot of content just isn't ideal for Stark Spidey but he chose not to.
Who cares if the challenge got cheesed ... there are very skilled players (especially in the target group that everyone keeps saying this is intended for) ... so whatever content comes, someone will cheese it. So leaving the "strongest Avenger" off the team was unnecessary. Your "target players" are going to make quick work of this content regardless. So ... the thought was I want to make it super difficult instead? No .. because it isn't super difficult still. It's just content created to rage the community so it seems.
Tigra and Jabari ... really? Everyone called this even before the content came out so that itself tells you how much thought went into it. None. I could pick two champs I enjoy and hate (Mysterio, DDHK) and say "Finish EOP" to check off whatever ultra, mega difficulty there had to be. But that wouldn't be fun at all ... doable sure .. but not fun.
What this combination of champs did was well ... you've seen the backlash. It just isn't fun .. for most. A game like this is in a tough spot for sure. But first and foremost any and all content has to be considered for the community at large despite any uproar from any target group. It's a fast track to the end when you specifically try to exclude a large group of people and you say to them .. this isn't for you. That's no bueno and community 101.
Tough to do for sure but the intent should always be for the community as a whole in whatever way that can be achieved. Hard, difficult content absolutely CAN be inclusive as opposed to how exclusive some of these pieces of content have been lately.
And this is all from a player who is in the target group of this "end game" content. But I just don't find them fun to do ... well to be honest one of them ... the Zemo run could be super fun because I love Zemo lol. I wouldn't have chosen Zemo just because of all the ridiculous Zemo gate stuff. All that fight did was continue the community sentiment of shenanigans going on around content creators and information.
But I mean listen ... we all can choose to do whatever. I'm just giving my advice and my thoughts and own opinions. It's nothing personal. I have (and will continue) to watch Karate Mike, Lagacy, KT1, Vega .. all my usual content creators on YouTube .. they've gotten me through a LOT of content in the game.
Also, I understood the not completing Mojo's prompts on Warlock but... it's a main mechanic of his kit that ties directly to other things. Not really justifiable to make everyone sacrifice his kit and future potential for the Warlock fight
Just the fact they excluded Hulk means there was thought out into it.
If it could be cheesed, then it can’t really be classified as a challenge.
There was so much thought put into all of this.
With proper strategy & skilled play the whole run could be soloed. It doesn’t need to be, and there’s nothing wrong with using items - but that is the challenge.
Insinuating that I didn’t include Hulk simply to “invoke community rage” is equally as mind boggling to read.
Fun is entirely subjective.
If you don’t personally find it fun, nothing will change that - and that’s okay.
Many players have found it very fun - and nothing will change that, either.
Let me scale back on the "no thought" thing. I think that's being taken too literally 😂. Obviously there was thought put into it ... what I mean is that it isn't creative at all. To me.
The Avengers thing .. I mean it was cool ... there was something there but leaving Hulk off to stop a solo doesn't make any sense. You missed an opportunity for a lot of "stongest Avenger" community talk etc. It's just not creative to me. But again, that's just my puny opinion mate lol
I appreciate the responses nonetheless Karate Mike. You've always been one of the few creators who I thought was just a genuine dude loving the game. But still ... to ME ... none of those challenges were creative or fun. And the community agrees.
Not every opinion or response especially in disagreement has to be villain vs hero. We're adults (I'm assuming) ... it's just conversation in the end ... at least to me.