War Matches

We've had about half our Wars overpowered this Season so far. Without getting into specifics, we're not at the top of the Totem Pole, but we do what we can with what we have. These Allies are literally 3 times our strength, both in Roster and Rating, and their low War Rating leaves my guys and I scratching our heads. Now, we're all adults, so if we're beat, we can accept that. However, something has to be put into place that accounts for the capabilities of Allies. We run what we can, and honestly, these Allies don't belong in our Bracket. It's incredibly discouraging to my guys. I mean, when I say they don't belong there, it's grossly apparent. I don't know if it's the result of Tanking or Shells, or what have you, but once or twice is possible. Every other War is a clear sign that something needs to be looked at. There should be more systems in place to even out the shifting, whether through manipulation or otherwise. I'm all for a challenge, but when we're getting steamrolled frequently, that's just not a fair challenge.

Comments

TwinTTowers

Many of them are probably new Alliances that have been formed for the season to get to a higher bracket. We experienced it at the start of last season but have broken free of it now. Don't be discouraged. It gets better.

GroundedWisdom

No, these aren't new. Not that I've seen, anyway. That's one of the first things I check is Date Created.

Cobs

Maybe you should spend less time crying on the forums and more time improving your skills/rosters in the game. Seriously though, War is designed to even its self out to an even win/loss ratio but lots of alliances are being strategic (and with in the rules) on when to win and when to lose. If you arent playing the game smart then you can only blame yourself not the guys who are playing the game better/smarter then you are.

GroundedWisdom

It's all over the place. I'm not one to complain about War much. There's going to be Matches we can't win, for sure. This is a clear indication that the Matches are disproportionate. It's just frustrating because my guys do what they can to get ahead in Seasons and they're just steamrolled. There has to be a better way.

GroundedWisdom

Cobs wrote: »

Maybe you should spend less time crying on the forums and more time improving your skills/rosters in the game. Seriously though, War is designed to even its self out to an even win/loss ratio but lots of alliances are being strategic (and with in the rules) on when to win and when to lose. If you arent playing the game smart then you can only blame yourself not the guys who are playing the game better/smarter then you are.

Crying on the Forums? Right. That's not my M.O. I've been playing Wars since their Beta. There are Matches that shouldn't be happening. Allies are taking advantage of lower Ratings, and regardless of being "smart", there's nothing you can do once it's Matched. I don't call taking advantage of weaker Allies "smart". I call it greedy. Not at all in the spirit of fair play. Then the Allies who are playing to the best of their capabilities are paying for people playing the system, not the game. It shouldn't be happening.

unknown

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Captain_Kandice

Are these retirement/low stress alliances you’re going up against? From what I’ve seen it seems more and more alliances are sick of the stress and cost of running AWs in higher tiers and have dropped down to the Gold tiers to save themselves the headache. No one should be forced to play at higher tiers just because they have a high alliance rating.

Could the system do a better job with matchmaking? Probably. But I don’t think there is an easy solution to that.

GroundedWisdom

Retirement? Not likely. Forced to play is a bit off from what I had in mind. There has to be an element of relative equity in strength. A Fight is only as fair as it can be won. I'm not talking a little difference that is doable with the right amount of skill. I'm talking, "What are they doing there?". It's just all over the map. Once in a while is fair game. When you've been Matched consistently like that, about half, that's cause for concern.

Captain_Kandice

I get the frustration. It just seems like people are quick to assume that alliances are trying to game the system. There are some for sure who are, but I’d think the further down the rankings you go, the more likely it’s alliances trying play with less stress.

LeNoirFaineant

@GroundedWisdom no one tanks or manipulates war rating in silver. I suspect the system just has a harder time with 1 BG wars. Probably some of the alliances you are facing are semi-retired vets who don't always care about the war but are, nevertheless, much stronger. None of what I just said is meant as a slight or criticism of your alliance, so please don't take it as a dig.

GroundedWisdom

I don't take it as a dig. I just think whatever the cause, there needs to be something that equalizes the Matches more. An Ally is only as capable as they are. Once in a while is a fair loss. Half the Matches, something is up. I'm still a proponent of incorporating something like Prestige or Rating in the mix. As for Tanking, it happens all over the place. Lol. More so in Gold, but all over.

LeNoirFaineant

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

I don't take it as a dig. I just think whatever the cause, there needs to be something that equalizes the Matches more. An Ally is only as capable as they are. Once in a while is a fair loss. Half the Matches, something is up. I'm still a proponent of incorporating something like Prestige or Rating in the mix. As for Tanking, it happens all over the place. Lol. More so in Gold, but all over.

It really doesn't. At some point the actual rewards from the individual wars are worth as much or more than the season rewards. No one aiming at silver 1 tanks to bronze in the offseason. Honestly even in gold I don't think people are tanking.

GroundedWisdom

The real issue for me is how Matchmaking is all over the place. Whether Shells or Tanking or Retirement or what have you. Essentially, your potential to win or lose is up to the system that Matches. When you don't take into account the capabilities of the Ally and have a mechanic that can change like War Rating, it leaves so much room for poor Matches. Add Seasons to it, where you have a limited amount of time to put up Points, and it's not a fair system to try and advance in. There shouldn't be a way that you can have a reasonable Match one War and a Match triple your size the next, much less half of them. If you work your way up to that point, that's reasonable. It's just a pecking fest. Don't get me wrong, we're not high, but we can strategize and win within reason. It just becomes discouraging to enter every other War and know you're beat.

LeNoirFaineant

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

The real issue for me is how Matchmaking is all over the place. Whether Shells or Tanking or Retirement or what have you. Essentially, your potential to win or lose is up to the system that Matches. When you don't take into account the capabilities of the Ally and have a mechanic that can change like War Rating, it leaves so much room for poor Matches. Add Seasons to it, where you have a limited amount of time to put up Points, and it's not a fair system to try and advance in. There shouldn't be a way that you can have a reasonable Match one War and a Match triple your size the next, much less half of them. If you work your way up to that point, that's reasonable. It's just a pecking fest. Don't get me wrong, we're not high, but we can strategize and win within reason. It just becomes discouraging to enter every other War and know you're beat.

I agree. It's the same problem with alliances that are penalized by having war ratings reduced and then beat the **** out of the alliances that are actually supposed to have that war rating. (Seems like you didn't think that was a problem but I could be wrong). I'm honestly not sure what the best system would be but we do need a system that prevents gross mismatches.

GroundedWisdom

I actually brought that up as an issue. I think the side-effect is a major problem. What I was saying is I understand how removing the Rating is justified because they earn it illegally. I didn't say it wasn't a problem. I agree.

GroundedWisdom

Actually what I said was they were knocked down to where they should be. That's only if they lose the amount of Rating they cheated to get. Either way, I also brought up the mismatches as a result of either shift.

LeNoirFaineant

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Actually what I said was they were knocked down to where they should be. That's only if they lose the amount of Rating they cheated to get. Either way, I also brought up the mismatches as a result of either shift.

They aren’t knocked down to where they should be though. Not by a long shot. A plat 1 or master alliance piloting to get in the top tier isn’t piloting in order to stay out of gold lol

GroundedWisdom

LeNoirFaineant wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Actually what I said was they were knocked down to where they should be. That's only if they lose the amount of Rating they cheated to get. Either way, I also brought up the mismatches as a result of either shift.

They aren’t knocked down to where they should be though. Not by a long shot. A plat 1 or master alliance piloting to get in the top tier isn’t piloting in order to stay out of gold lol

I get you. I'm anti-cheating all around.

DrBruceWayne

I gotta agree with you GW, my alliance has been facing opponents with 6* and 300k+ ratings while we are about 100k rating each.

Speedbump

The_Unknown wrote: »

I gotta agree with you GW, my alliance has been facing opponents with 6* and 300k+ ratings while we are about 100k rating each.

Base rating has nothing to do with WAR....ffs

Captain_Kandice

I think alliance rating does factor into matchmaking along with AW rating. The alliance I’m in is 14 mil. tier 5. We’ve been in the tier 5-7 range since we were half the size we are now. As our alliance rating grew, so did the opponents we went up against. Our opponents are always within 2-3 mil of our rating.

But we run 3 BGs. If you’re only running 1 or 2, you’re narrowing down the number of alliances you can be matched with. If none are available close to your rating, you get mismatched. So how do you match fairly against an alliance that doesn’t exist?

Captain_Kandice

Just to be clear, I do think it’s a problem, I just don’t think there is a solution to the problem that won’t cause even more problems.

GroundedWisdom

I haven't given up hope.

GroundedWisdom

Some run 1 BG because they can't fill 3. Others are full, and run one by choice. Not much can be done with that aspect.

SiriusBreak

This has been ongoing and certainly not limited to any tier. We got outmatched by multiple millions in rating points multiple wars in a row. This supposedly was 'addressed' and matchmaking was supposed to not allow this occurrence. Clearly, untrue. There's a difference between a challenge, and an uphill battle. We're a Gold 1 Alliance and we've managed to come REAL CLOSE in the not so fairly matched wars. Lost by 80 and 200ish points in the 1st 2 losses against larger Alliances. 16 and 17 million ratings against a 14 million.

We have skill, and can hold our own pretty well. HOWEVER, they CLEARLY have the upper hand. Multiple 5* R5s make our defense lineups less effective. They also have heavier defense setups. We turned it around and won against a 15 million rated Alliance. So we're certainly not apposed to being matched against an Alliance that's give or take a million rating points of us. That's fair. But when they're over 2-3 million rating points greater than us, it's an uphill battle. After a few wins in a row, I could see matchmaking giving harder matches. But after a couple losses, and we were getting bonked on the noggin... well that to me says matchmaking still needs some work. Just the same, I don't like getting paired against 11-12 million rated Alliances as it's typically a wash. That's not fun for anyone. Sure, easy points. No doubt. It just takes some of the fun out of battling an Alliance that should be a fair match.

When Seasons are so competitive, there should be some fair competition. Why anyone would disagree with such is beyond me. To call manipulation of a flawed system 'smart playing' is tantamount too bending any rules and saying 'What? It's fair, we didn't do anything wrong persay.' You know well enough what you're doing. Play to win. Not play to manipulate. The fact there's methods of 'playing smart' shows there's flaws within matchmaking. All should be able to push for the win every war. Both sides. Otherwise, it's not really a war so much as a team of cannon fodder vs a team of cannonballs. That's not a war, that's a waste IMHO.

What's worse, we've now been matched against a 19 million rated Alliance. 5 million rating difference. That's just ridiculous. We run all 3 BGs, full up, all the time. It seems like matchmaking is rushing as the match was made almost instantly for this current war. To put this all into perspective, we're 3 and 3 this Season. Only 2 wins back to back. Again, I could understand if we were on a heavy streak getting a match like this. But c'mon, 2 wins and we get straight NOGGIN KNOCKED?!?!!! War rating AND Alliance rating should be close. If the match is not within give or take 1.5-2 million rating points, matchmaking should continue to hold until it finds a suitable match. This current match would be like our Alliance getting matched against a 9 million rated Alliance. That's not right. This is gonna be a rough one.