PLEASE either nerf Hyperion or give Strange his power gain back

Total double standard. Hyperion gains power unlike anyone else in the whole game. But Doctor Strange was too OP? Now you've made DS - formerly one of the most powerful champs in the game - feeble and weak. I don't buy the reasoning on it, think the way it was handled was done very poorly and I think something needs to change here. Who agrees?
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Comments

  • whaler213whaler213 Posts: 16
    strange's power gain wasnt the reason he was nerfed (and regardless he is different from hyperion because his power gain was his only way of gaining power while hyperion gains through hits as well) it was his regen ability
  • CammonRoCammonRo Posts: 49
    It is true. It was but one of many things that was nerfed - but personally for me it grates the most - even more than the regen. Waiting forever to launch a single special is maddening. And your point about Hyperion emphasizes how egregious Strange's power nerf was because Hype gets BOTH automatic power gain buffs AND power from engaging the opponent.
  • CrusherOfDreamsCrusherOfDreams Posts: 1,370
    edited July 17
    I don't see what this has to do with Hyperion, but yes, Strange was undermined. He was a good Champ who got butchered. I always sum it up this way:
    Strange was created with low base stats and amazing abilities. PI is based on base stats, which is why he has low PI. His abilities were nerfed to mediocre at best, but his base stats weren't brought up at all. Now he's a sucky champ with a mediocre ability use. His Armor is about as good as Iron Man's, which is bad. His Fury is about as good as Winter Soldier's, which is bad. His Regeneration is okay, but a champ like Wolverine or X-23 could easily outdo him. Counterspell is okay, but it's not as good as Nullify like SW has. He's mediocre in all his abilities, but that's where he's supposed to excel. It's be like if you took Wolverine and made his Regen trigger half as often, or made Spider-Man evade half as much, or made Magik's Limbo trigger only on SP3 moves. They'd all suck. You can't take the only good part of a champ and make it bad, yet expect people to keep using them. Kabam needs to avoid doing that in the future, and fix the times they did it in the past.
  • R4GER4GE Posts: 62
    edited July 17
    I completely agree. With the insane power gain Hyperion has I never understood why they nerfed Strange. Even before the nerf his power gain wasn't as strong as Hyperions. I like Hyperion as he is, don't wanna see him nerfed at all. But it doesn't make sense either. And as it was pointed out, Hyperion does receive power gain in 2 different way and DS only had one, which was never over the top.
  • Yelin547Yelin547 Posts: 192
    Hyperion power gain isn't bad. He's very easy to bait and has some of the most easily evaded specials in the game. You fight him less aggressively than other champs but I honestly can't remember the last time I had issues with him...
  • CammonRoCammonRo Posts: 49
    edited July 17
    R4GE wrote: »
    I completely agree. With the insane power gain Hyperion has I never understood why they nerfed Strange. Even before the nerf his power gain wasn't as strong as Hyperions. I like Hyperion as he is, don't wanna see him nerfed at all. But it doesn't make sense either. And as it was pointed out, Hyperion does receive power gain in 2 different way and DS only had one, which was never over the top.

    Yeah exactly. It makes no sense. That's my whole point.

    I'm sure no one wants to hear it but based on past precedent, honestly, I will not be surprised in the least if they nerf Hyperion within a year. Which makes me not want to spend on this game for the next generation of supposed "great champs".

    Fixing characters like DS would go a long way towards restoring some of that trust. (Let's not forget how heavily Strange was marketed only months before the nerf.)

    Also having a hard time understanding why B and C-list characters are outshining the classic iconic characters in almost every way. The contest just feels "off" to me because of it. The only positive I've seen in that area is Hulk's recent elevation in status. Now THAT made sense.
  • AddyosAddyos Posts: 212
    Bring the Doctor back to his former glory, leave Hyperion alone. No more nerfs, period!
  • CrusherOfDreamsCrusherOfDreams Posts: 1,370
    edited July 17
    CammonRo wrote: »
    R4GE wrote: »
    I completely agree. With the insane power gain Hyperion has I never understood why they nerfed Strange. Even before the nerf his power gain wasn't as strong as Hyperions. I like Hyperion as he is, don't wanna see him nerfed at all. But it doesn't make sense either. And as it was pointed out, Hyperion does receive power gain in 2 different way and DS only had one, which was never over the top.

    Yeah exactly. It makes no sense. That's my whole point.

    I'm sure no one wants to hear it but based on past precedent, honestly, I will not be surprised in the least if they nerf Hyperion within a year. Which makes me not want to spend on this game for the next generation of supposed "great champs".

    Fixing characters like DS would go a long way towards restoring some of that trust. (Let's not forget how heavily Strange was marketed only months before the nerf.)

    Also having a hard time understanding why B and C-list characters are outshining the classic iconic characters in almost every way. The contest just feels "off" to me because of it. The only positive I've seen in that area is Hulk's recent elevation in status. Now THAT made sense.

    I don't get it either. Many unknown and unpowerful champs outshine the amazing ones. Why is Phoenix worse than Gwenpool? Why is Luke Cage worse than Red Hulk? Why is Carnage worse than Rocket Raccoon? This stuff doesn't make sense. If Kabam is going to make some champs awesome and some horrible, it needs to at least be flipped. But Kabam can't nerf anyone, because then we'll all lose our minds. Everyone needs to be at least usuable. The worst champ, with their current usefulness, should be someone like Gamora. She's got good crit damage and an amazing Awakened Ability, but is by no means great. No one should be much worse than that. Instead, we have champs with bad base stats and bad abilities, such as Strange and Spidergwen, running rampant. Something needs to change.
  • CammonRoCammonRo Posts: 49
    edited July 17
    I don't get it either. Many unknown and unpowerful champs outshine the amazing ones. Why is Phoenix worse than Gwenpool? Why is Luke Cage worse than Red Hulk? Why is Carnage worse than Rocket Raccoon? This stuff doesn't make sense. If Kabam is going to make some champs awesome and some horrible, it needs to at least be flipped. But Kabam can't nerf anyone, because then we'll all lose our minds. Everyone needs to be at least usuable. The worst champ, with their current usefulness, should be someone like Gamora. She's got good crit damage and an amazing Awakened Ability, but is by no means great. No one should be much worse than that. Instead, we have champs with bad base stats and bad abilities, such as Strange and Spidergwen, running rampant. Something needs to change.

    Well said.

    And, for the record, I agree. Nerfing is the worst. I'd much rather see weak champs improved than existing strong champs intentionally weakened.
  • CrusherOfDreamsCrusherOfDreams Posts: 1,370
    CammonRo wrote: »
    I don't get it either. Many unknown and unpowerful champs outshine the amazing ones. Why is Phoenix worse than Gwenpool? Why is Luke Cage worse than Red Hulk? Why is Carnage worse than Rocket Raccoon? This stuff doesn't make sense. If Kabam is going to make some champs awesome and some horrible, it needs to at least be flipped. But Kabam can't nerf anyone, because then we'll all lose our minds. Everyone needs to be at least usuable. The worst champ, with their current usefulness, should be someone like Gamora. She's got good crit damage and an amazing Awakened Ability, but is by no means great. No one should be much worse than that. Instead, we have champs with bad base stats and bad abilities, such as Strange and Spidergwen, running rampant. Something needs to change.

    Well said.

    And, for the record, I agree. Nerfing is the worst. I'd much rather see weak champs improved than existing strong champs intentionally weakened.

    Otherwise we'll end up with another Dr. Strange case.
  • ThawnimThawnim Posts: 743
    I think restoring DS's life steal to 50% of damage delivered would be the better option between the two provided. Hyperion really does not need nerfing. He is a great champ, but not that hard to beat once you have the right champ(s) and know how to fight him.
  • Mr_OtterMr_Otter Posts: 475
    I BEG OF THE COMMUNITY TO CONSIDER MAKIBG HYPERION POWER GAIN WORK LIKE MOON KNIGHT'S!
  • ThawnimThawnim Posts: 743
    Mr_Otter wrote: »
    I BEG OF THE COMMUNITY TO CONSIDER MAKIBG HYPERION POWER GAIN WORK LIKE MOON KNIGHT'S!

    Have you checked out youtube or any other streaming service to see how to beat Hyperion without losing massive amounts of health? If you do that I guarantee you will no longer fear his power gain.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 1,559
    Strange was a Swiss Army Knife. There was more that went into his nerf than Power Gain. He had Regen, Power Gain, Counterspell, Fury, etc. Fuelling most of those Abilities was the increased Power Gain, but that wasn't the only thing changed. It was necessary because there legitimately wasn't much stopping him, and he was cutting through all content.
    Hyperion has two defining characteristics. Increased Power Gain, and stackable Incinerate. Both of which can be countered with the right Champs and skill. It is not reasonable to say that Hyperion shouldn't have PG because Strange lost his. Two different Champs, two different mechanics at play. PG is not the only aspect or reason for the nerf.
  • CrusherOfDreamsCrusherOfDreams Posts: 1,370
    Strange was a Swiss Army Knife. There was more that went into his nerf than Power Gain. He had Regen, Power Gain, Counterspell, Fury, etc. Fuelling most of those Abilities was the increased Power Gain, but that wasn't the only thing changed. It was necessary because there legitimately wasn't much stopping him, and he was cutting through all content.
    Hyperion has two defining characteristics. Increased Power Gain, and stackable Incinerate. Both of which can be countered with the right Champs and skill. It is not reasonable to say that Hyperion shouldn't have PG because Strange lost his. Two different Champs, two different mechanics at play. PG is not the only aspect or reason for the nerf.

    So you're fine with him being awful as he is?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 1,559
    Strange was a Swiss Army Knife. There was more that went into his nerf than Power Gain. He had Regen, Power Gain, Counterspell, Fury, etc. Fuelling most of those Abilities was the increased Power Gain, but that wasn't the only thing changed. It was necessary because there legitimately wasn't much stopping him, and he was cutting through all content.
    Hyperion has two defining characteristics. Increased Power Gain, and stackable Incinerate. Both of which can be countered with the right Champs and skill. It is not reasonable to say that Hyperion shouldn't have PG because Strange lost his. Two different Champs, two different mechanics at play. PG is not the only aspect or reason for the nerf.

    So you're fine with him being awful as he is?

    That's not what I said. The topic was that Strange should have Power Gain because Hyperion does. Apples and oranges.
  • CrusherOfDreamsCrusherOfDreams Posts: 1,370
    Strange was a Swiss Army Knife. There was more that went into his nerf than Power Gain. He had Regen, Power Gain, Counterspell, Fury, etc. Fuelling most of those Abilities was the increased Power Gain, but that wasn't the only thing changed. It was necessary because there legitimately wasn't much stopping him, and he was cutting through all content.
    Hyperion has two defining characteristics. Increased Power Gain, and stackable Incinerate. Both of which can be countered with the right Champs and skill. It is not reasonable to say that Hyperion shouldn't have PG because Strange lost his. Two different Champs, two different mechanics at play. PG is not the only aspect or reason for the nerf.

    So you're fine with him being awful as he is?

    That's not what I said. The topic was that Strange should have Power Gain because Hyperion does. Apples and oranges.

    The topic was that Strange was nerfed for his Power Gain but Hyperion gets to run free. I don't necessarily agree with that, but you made it sound like, with all his aspects, he DESERVED the nerf.
  • Viper013Viper013 Posts: 21
    Leave hyperion alone
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 1,559
    Strange was a Swiss Army Knife. There was more that went into his nerf than Power Gain. He had Regen, Power Gain, Counterspell, Fury, etc. Fuelling most of those Abilities was the increased Power Gain, but that wasn't the only thing changed. It was necessary because there legitimately wasn't much stopping him, and he was cutting through all content.
    Hyperion has two defining characteristics. Increased Power Gain, and stackable Incinerate. Both of which can be countered with the right Champs and skill. It is not reasonable to say that Hyperion shouldn't have PG because Strange lost his. Two different Champs, two different mechanics at play. PG is not the only aspect or reason for the nerf.

    So you're fine with him being awful as he is?

    That's not what I said. The topic was that Strange should have Power Gain because Hyperion does. Apples and oranges.

    The topic was that Strange was nerfed for his Power Gain but Hyperion gets to run free. I don't necessarily agree with that, but you made it sound like, with all his aspects, he DESERVED the nerf.

    Strange wasn't nerfed for his PG. That's what you guys are missing.
  • CrusherOfDreamsCrusherOfDreams Posts: 1,370
    Strange was a Swiss Army Knife. There was more that went into his nerf than Power Gain. He had Regen, Power Gain, Counterspell, Fury, etc. Fuelling most of those Abilities was the increased Power Gain, but that wasn't the only thing changed. It was necessary because there legitimately wasn't much stopping him, and he was cutting through all content.
    Hyperion has two defining characteristics. Increased Power Gain, and stackable Incinerate. Both of which can be countered with the right Champs and skill. It is not reasonable to say that Hyperion shouldn't have PG because Strange lost his. Two different Champs, two different mechanics at play. PG is not the only aspect or reason for the nerf.

    So you're fine with him being awful as he is?

    That's not what I said. The topic was that Strange should have Power Gain because Hyperion does. Apples and oranges.

    The topic was that Strange was nerfed for his Power Gain but Hyperion gets to run free. I don't necessarily agree with that, but you made it sound like, with all his aspects, he DESERVED the nerf.

    Strange wasn't nerfed for his PG. That's what you guys are missing.

    I don't think he was either. I'm just wondering whether you thought he deserved the nerf or not. His PG was never that good.
  • ThawnimThawnim Posts: 743
    edited July 17
    Strange was a Swiss Army Knife. There was more that went into his nerf than Power Gain. He had Regen, Power Gain, Counterspell, Fury, etc. Fuelling most of those Abilities was the increased Power Gain, but that wasn't the only thing changed. It was necessary because there legitimately wasn't much stopping him, and he was cutting through all content.
    Hyperion has two defining characteristics. Increased Power Gain, and stackable Incinerate. Both of which can be countered with the right Champs and skill. It is not reasonable to say that Hyperion shouldn't have PG because Strange lost his. Two different Champs, two different mechanics at play. PG is not the only aspect or reason for the nerf.

    So you're fine with him being awful as he is?

    That's not what I said. The topic was that Strange should have Power Gain because Hyperion does. Apples and oranges.

    The topic was that Strange was nerfed for his Power Gain but Hyperion gets to run free. I don't necessarily agree with that, but you made it sound like, with all his aspects, he DESERVED the nerf.

    Strange wasn't nerfed for his PG. That's what you guys are missing.

    He was nerfed cause they noticed that he was being used by so many people for AQ/AW. The classic "we don't want this game to be about one champ or certain teams" defense.

    And yes, I am still a little salty about it.
  • CrusherOfDreamsCrusherOfDreams Posts: 1,370
    Thawnim wrote: »
    Strange was a Swiss Army Knife. There was more that went into his nerf than Power Gain. He had Regen, Power Gain, Counterspell, Fury, etc. Fuelling most of those Abilities was the increased Power Gain, but that wasn't the only thing changed. It was necessary because there legitimately wasn't much stopping him, and he was cutting through all content.
    Hyperion has two defining characteristics. Increased Power Gain, and stackable Incinerate. Both of which can be countered with the right Champs and skill. It is not reasonable to say that Hyperion shouldn't have PG because Strange lost his. Two different Champs, two different mechanics at play. PG is not the only aspect or reason for the nerf.

    So you're fine with him being awful as he is?

    That's not what I said. The topic was that Strange should have Power Gain because Hyperion does. Apples and oranges.

    The topic was that Strange was nerfed for his Power Gain but Hyperion gets to run free. I don't necessarily agree with that, but you made it sound like, with all his aspects, he DESERVED the nerf.

    Strange wasn't nerfed for his PG. That's what you guys are missing.

    He was nerfed cause they noticed that he was being used by so many people for AQ/AW. The classic "we don't want this game to be about one champ or certain teams" defense.

    And yes, I am still a little salty about it.

    And then they make content where you pretty much have to have ability reduction to survive. Because that's not contradictory.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 1,559
    He was not nerfed because he was being used too much. He was being used too much because he was OP. To the point where they couldn't create any new or challenging content. Which has been explained many times, by both Staff and Members. Do I think the nerf was appropriate? Yes, because I understand the reasons for it.
  • CrusherOfDreamsCrusherOfDreams Posts: 1,370
    He was not nerfed because he was being used too much. He was being used too much because he was OP. To the point where they couldn't create any new or challenging content. Which has been explained many times, by both Staff and Members. Do I think the nerf was appropriate? Yes, because I understand the reasons for it.

    I mean, they could've nerfed him a bit, I agree, but I feel like this was WAY over the top. He was one of the best, yet now his in the bottom third of champs. You don't think that was overkill?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 1,559
    He was not nerfed because he was being used too much. He was being used too much because he was OP. To the point where they couldn't create any new or challenging content. Which has been explained many times, by both Staff and Members. Do I think the nerf was appropriate? Yes, because I understand the reasons for it.

    I mean, they could've nerfed him a bit, I agree, but I feel like this was WAY over the top. He was one of the best, yet now his in the bottom third of champs. You don't think that was overkill?

    The more complex a Champ's Buffs, the lower their Base Stats and output will be. Otherwise, they become OP. For example, Carnage. If his Stats were raised given the complexity of his existing Buffs, he would become OP. That's why they do it. To maintain balance while still keeping the integrity of their mechanics.
  • CoquiFongoCoquiFongo Posts: 83
    Strange was a Swiss Army Knife. There was more that went into his nerf than Power Gain. He had Regen, Power Gain, Counterspell, Fury, etc. Fuelling most of those Abilities was the increased Power Gain, but that wasn't the only thing changed. It was necessary because there legitimately wasn't much stopping him, and he was cutting through all content.
    Hyperion has two defining characteristics. Increased Power Gain, and stackable Incinerate. Both of which can be countered with the right Champs and skill. It is not reasonable to say that Hyperion shouldn't have PG because Strange lost his. Two different Champs, two different mechanics at play. PG is not the only aspect or reason for the nerf.

    You said it right there in your first sentence, he was a Swiss Army Knife. That was the selling point for him, he could go into a fight and handle most things decently well, but not great at everything. DS is squishy as hell, it is only during the armor up buff that he can take damage. On a day 5 AQ he could get hurt fast and hard.

    That is the point I'm trying to, and I think others, are trying to make. Played well you could succeed, but if not played perfectly the new it's game over man.

    I agree some changes to the "god tier" champions was needed, but we are discussing the severity to it.

    The tone of your posts are getting tiresome man. The world is not black and white and we are trying to find a nice middle ground in the gray area.

  • CrusherOfDreamsCrusherOfDreams Posts: 1,370
    He was not nerfed because he was being used too much. He was being used too much because he was OP. To the point where they couldn't create any new or challenging content. Which has been explained many times, by both Staff and Members. Do I think the nerf was appropriate? Yes, because I understand the reasons for it.

    I mean, they could've nerfed him a bit, I agree, but I feel like this was WAY over the top. He was one of the best, yet now his in the bottom third of champs. You don't think that was overkill?

    The more complex a Champ's Buffs, the lower their Base Stats and output will be. Otherwise, they become OP. For example, Carnage. If his Stats were raised given the complexity of his existing Buffs, he would become OP. That's why they do it. To maintain balance while still keeping the integrity of their mechanics.

    You didn't answer my question. DS went from one end of the spectrum to the other. Awesome to awful. Do you think that was too far or not?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 1,559
    He was not nerfed because he was being used too much. He was being used too much because he was OP. To the point where they couldn't create any new or challenging content. Which has been explained many times, by both Staff and Members. Do I think the nerf was appropriate? Yes, because I understand the reasons for it.

    I mean, they could've nerfed him a bit, I agree, but I feel like this was WAY over the top. He was one of the best, yet now his in the bottom third of champs. You don't think that was overkill?

    The more complex a Champ's Buffs, the lower their Base Stats and output will be. Otherwise, they become OP. For example, Carnage. If his Stats were raised given the complexity of his existing Buffs, he would become OP. That's why they do it. To maintain balance while still keeping the integrity of their mechanics.

    You didn't answer my question. DS went from one end of the spectrum to the other. Awesome to awful. Do you think that was too far or not?

    I've already answered. The severity of it was necessary for what they had to do. He's not awful. That's subjective. He's just not what he was. That was the whole point.
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