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Masochism and Buffet Have Been Bugged For Years - Fix Coming Soon Right?

becauseicantbecauseicant Posts: 412 ★★★
edited April 2019 in Bugs and Known Issues
As evidenced by the recent Nick Fury synergy fix you have the capability to fix the issue where multiple debuffs or buffs are being removed by a single effect. This is the exact same issue that has been present in the Masochism and Buffet nodes since they were introduced into the game, whereby when they trigger they remove all debuffs/buffs triggered at the same time instead of just the next single one. It's extremely difficult to believe in this instance that you've treated a bug the same way whether it benefited players or not since you clearly put no effort into fixing it UNTIL it benefited players. If you really treat all bugs the same, then Masochism and Buffet will be fixed immediately. If it isn't fixed then you are going against what you've told us time and time again.
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    Kenny292Kenny292 Posts: 536 ★★
    If I remember right, the same thing happened with Symbiote Supreme’s stagger when he was released. His stagger was supposedly not intended to nullify multiple buffs that triggered at the same time, only one single buff. It got fixed not too long after his release and when people brought up the fact that buffet/masochism are worded the same and should work the same, silence.
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    CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    edited April 2019
    Both Masochism and Buffet are intended to consume all buffs/debuffs as described by Kabam. Nick Fury was not intended to consume all Debuffs. It’s a matternof intent and design so I’m super curious how you can make these claims in spite of all available evidence. Is there something you can prove that contridicts the description of Fury’s synergy being singular and Kabam explaining that Masochism and Buffet are intended to consume multiples?

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/100130/corvus-the-buffet-node

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/439163#Comment_439163


    P.S. Anyone got any of these CCP videos on the Nick Fury synergies?
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    V1PER1987V1PER1987 Posts: 3,474 ★★★★★
    edited April 2019
    CoatHang3r said:

    Both Masochism and Buffet are intended to consume all buffs/debuffs as described by Kabam. Nick Fury was not intended to consume all Debuffs. It’s a matternof intent and design so I’m super curious how you can make these claims in spite of all available evidence. Is there something you can prove that contridicts the description of Fury’s synergy being singular and Kabam explaining that Masochism and Buffet are intended to consume multiples?

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/100130/corvus-the-buffet-node

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/439163#Comment_439163


    P.S. Anyone got any of these CCP videos on the Nick Fury synergies?

    Well as it was mentioned earlier, the description is hugely misleading, no matter what the mods say. It clearly says the next debuff which should only mean one debuff is removed, not as many that trigger at once. I’ve made my peace with it but the mods are saying something different than the actual in game description which is misleading.
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    DalBotDalBot Posts: 1,616 ★★★★★
    CoatHang3r said:

    Both Masochism and Buffet are intended to consume all buffs/debuffs as described by Kabam. Nick Fury was not intended to consume all Debuffs. It’s a matternof intent and design so I’m super curious how you can make these claims in spite of all available evidence. Is there something you can prove that contridicts the description of Fury’s synergy being singular and Kabam explaining that Masochism and Buffet are intended to consume multiples?

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/100130/corvus-the-buffet-node

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/439163#Comment_439163


    P.S. Anyone got any of these CCP videos on the Nick Fury synergies?

    I mean it's not like the word debuff, singular, is in the description or anything...


  • Options
    CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    DalBot said:

    CoatHang3r said:

    Both Masochism and Buffet are intended to consume all buffs/debuffs as described by Kabam. Nick Fury was not intended to consume all Debuffs. It’s a matternof intent and design so I’m super curious how you can make these claims in spite of all available evidence. Is there something you can prove that contridicts the description of Fury’s synergy being singular and Kabam explaining that Masochism and Buffet are intended to consume multiples?

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/100130/corvus-the-buffet-node

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/439163#Comment_439163


    P.S. Anyone got any of these CCP videos on the Nick Fury synergies?

    I mean it's not like the word debuff, singular, is in the description or anything...


    Explained
    Kabam Miike said:

    Hey there,



    This isn't just exclusive to Blade. Anytime 2 (or more) Debuffs are placed at the same time, Masochism will consume them all. This can probably be updated to be worded more clearly, and I will pass that on to the team.



    Let this be a warning to all Dr Voodoo users out there!


  • Options
    DalBotDalBot Posts: 1,616 ★★★★★
    CoatHang3r said:


    Explained

    Kabam Miike said:

    Hey there,



    This isn't just exclusive to Blade. Anytime 2 (or more) Debuffs are placed at the same time, Masochism will consume them all. This can probably be updated to be worded more clearly, and I will pass that on to the team.



    Let this be a warning to all Dr Voodoo users out there!


    so you're saying a forum post by a non game team mod explains it all while simultaneously not updating the verbiage in game, but the verbiage in game is valid reason to make this change to Fury AFTER they made the money off of him in crystals and arena.

    Gotcha.
  • Options
    DalBotDalBot Posts: 1,616 ★★★★★
    edited April 2019
    You know that probably 90% of players of this game don't read the forums so that explanation means bupkiss right? What it says in game, where it matters, is contradictory when it's beneficial to the developer and unfavorable to the player. That's unethical.
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    Eb0ny-O-M4wEb0ny-O-M4w Posts: 13,764 ★★★★★
    I swear this thread was already created like 5 times today ...
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    CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    DalBot said:

    CoatHang3r said:


    Explained

    Kabam Miike said:

    Hey there,



    This isn't just exclusive to Blade. Anytime 2 (or more) Debuffs are placed at the same time, Masochism will consume them all. This can probably be updated to be worded more clearly, and I will pass that on to the team.



    Let this be a warning to all Dr Voodoo users out there!


    so you're saying a forum post by a non game team mod explains it all while simultaneously not updating the verbiage in game, but the verbiage in game is valid reason to make this change to Fury AFTER they made the money off of him in crystals and arena.

    Gotcha.
    No I am saying the argument that Buffet and Masochism are bugged is false, as the explanation from Kabam clearly shows their intent. The NF synergy also has an explanation from Kabam that it was in fact bugged. Get your facts first then distort them as you please.
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    DalBotDalBot Posts: 1,616 ★★★★★
    CoatHang3r said:


    No I am saying the argument that Buffet and Masochism are bugged is false, as the explanation from Kabam clearly shows their intent. The NF synergy also has an explanation from Kabam that it was in fact bugged. Get your facts first then distort them as you please.

    So the excuse of "it's beneficial to us and negative to you because we say so" is good enough for you then? No problems that A) they didn't quality control test the champion before they released him, B) they didn't mention to the community BEFORE they sold him and AFTER his preview videos went live that this was a "bug" and C) they conveniently change this weeks after he's released AND ALSO after his crystals sold not once, but twice? A lot of people went hard for him in arena and a lot of people dropped real coin BECAUSE of this synergy working as shown, but that's fine by you? Buyer beware because the developer can change what they want, when they want, how they want without two party consent?

    Just stop dude. It's not a good look.
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    CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    That’s neither here nor there. You simply do not know how this came about, when Kabam was made aware, or how long it took to push the fix. You are assuming everything which is not a defensible position. For all we know they found out an hour before they pushed the fix and acted immediately. Furthermore that is not my argument, my argument is, simply put, “masochism and buffet are not bugged as described by Kabam”.

    Now really I shouldn’t be feeding this (simply dgaf) but perhaps I can help bridge the dsiconnect you apparently have here.

    I’m not concerned with what individual people did or how they feel about the situation, I only care about what can be proven and argued.

    But yes caveat emptor my friend the ToS (which you agreed to) clearly explains you own nothing, nothing is guaranteed, and everything is subject to change, if you want to go there.
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    DalBotDalBot Posts: 1,616 ★★★★★
    So you're good with integrity and honesty being tossed aside as long as a ToS says it's cool? Says a lot about you.

    And this was well known WELL in advance of the original GMFCs and Arena occurring. It was talked about before then, and DEFINITELY was well known before the second round of GMFCs came up, yet wasn't fixed until AFTER the money came in for the second round.

    You're done here. No need to reply any further, everyone here knows exactly why you say what you say every single time.
  • Options
    CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    edited April 2019
    DalBot said:

    So you're good with integrity and honesty being tossed aside as long as a ToS says it's cool? Says a lot about you.

    And this was well known WELL in advance of the original GMFCs and Arena occurring. It was talked about before then, and DEFINITELY was well known before the second round of GMFCs came up, yet wasn't fixed until AFTER the money came in for the second round.

    You're done here. No need to reply any further, everyone here knows exactly why you say what you say every single time.

    Not what I said, you seem to be incapable of understanding me and live to put words in my mouth. Toodles.

    P.S. Prove it was talked about, I myslef looked for clarification on the synergy from Kabam or any hint they were commented on it, I found nothing. You’re making it up.
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    Fred_JoeityFred_Joeity Posts: 1,168 ★★★
    Personally I think holding off on the Nick Fury fix was either lazy, unobservant, filled with red tape, or a conspiracy. I’m personally leaning towards unobservant. I do not support “fixing” Masochism and Buffet though, since the developers have confirmed that they’re working. A minor fix of the wording would be nice though. Then again, if the players care enough about the specifics, they can search it up online, so perhaps that’s why Kabam hasn’t reworded it yet.
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    LormifLormif Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    DalBot said:

    It's a classic bait and switch. The content creator videos made the case for the suicide removal, the champ was released, they made a ton of money off of people grinding and buying crystals, re-ran the crystals, THEN they release this "fix" that is detrimental to the players.

    If this is such an issue for Fury then why do Masochism and Buffet not function the same way? They're worded similarly yet they function the same way Furys ability did, but because that benefits the company and not the player it's acceptable whereas this is not?

    We all know Kabam watches the content creator videos to ensure they adhere to the standards required to be in the program. As such they could have seen it, said "oh wait that's not right" and addressed it by possibly postponing the arena and crystals until it was fixed. They didn't do this. The "bug" was known before they released the champ, then they made the money off the champs release, then AFTER THE CRYSTAL RAN AGAIN they announced that they "fixed" the bug, meanwhile not addressing why this same "bug" exists in Masochism/Buffet to their benefit.

    Masochism says it applies to "the next debuff", yet it eats multiple debuffs as shown in the video I just made (Blades stun on the parry as well as the bleed from the parry)

    What's good for the goose (Kabam)isn't good for the gander (player)I guess

    The content creator video, did it explicity say both suicides or it could remove some?

    As for masochism, this is a hard one, but also does not say it can only trigger once, meaning that it could be like ultron where it says every 7 seconds evade, but can evade multiple times in that 7th second.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,248 ★★★★★
    DalBot said:

    CoatHang3r said:


    Explained

    Kabam Miike said:

    Hey there,



    This isn't just exclusive to Blade. Anytime 2 (or more) Debuffs are placed at the same time, Masochism will consume them all. This can probably be updated to be worded more clearly, and I will pass that on to the team.



    Let this be a warning to all Dr Voodoo users out there!


    so you're saying a forum post by a non game team mod explains it all while simultaneously not updating the verbiage in game, but the verbiage in game is valid reason to make this change to Fury AFTER they made the money off of him in crystals and arena.

    Gotcha.
    Miike is not just a Mod. He has other responsibilities behind the scenes.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,248 ★★★★★
    As for making money off him, has nothing to do with it at all. The description says Debuff, supported by the term "or", not "and". It was meant to Purify one, not all. It wasn't designed to give Suicide Immunity. Pretty simple.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,248 ★★★★★
    In response to the Nodes, they're working as they're supposed to. When you have mechanics that apply double Debuffs like Yondu's Bleed/Parry, Corvus, Blade, etc., they apply it as all one Debuff. Which is why the Node removes all. It registers as one. Now, whether they choose to update the description or augment the Champs, that's up to them. The latter will be more complex because you have to alter how the Champs apply them, not the Nodes.
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    HouseAtreidesHouseAtreides Posts: 8
    edited April 2019
    Just ignore Wisdom guys, hes just trying to derail like he does on every thread so he can get it closed.

    You can spin semantics about masochism all you want, it still doesn't explain korg or KP purfiy debuffs ALREADY placed when a new one is purged.

    Go ahead and semantics your way out of that.
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    HouseAtreidesHouseAtreides Posts: 8
    @Kabam Miike @Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Vydious @Kabam Lyra @Kabam Porthos

    Can we please get a comment on the debuff purification issue. My thread was closed with no response or msg, we would really like some info.
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    VoltolosVoltolos Posts: 1,120 ★★★
    HouseAtreides said:

    You can spin semantics about masochism all you want, it still doesn't explain korg or KP purfiy debuffs ALREADY placed when a new one is purged.

    When does that ever happen?
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    Eb0ny-O-M4wEb0ny-O-M4w Posts: 13,764 ★★★★★
    HouseAtreides said:

    @Kabam Miike @Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Vydious @Kabam Lyra @Kabam Porthos

    Can we please get a comment on the debuff purification issue. My thread was closed with no response or msg, we would really like some info.

    They already asnwered it. The reply's here are based on that asnwer, so they are correct.
    Masoquism and Buffet are supposed to work how they do currently. Intended.
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    Fred_JoeityFred_Joeity Posts: 1,168 ★★★
    For those who don’t actually read all the posts: Masochism and Buffet are working as intended; they’re just worded badly. Nick Fury was not working as intended, so he was fixed. Any Kabam conspiracies are slightly irrelevant right now.
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    HouseAtreidesHouseAtreides Posts: 8
    @will-o-wisp @Voltolos anytime a debuff is applied to a purging champion, when it is purged there is a chance to randomly purge another debuff or more that are placed earlier. Maso can do this aswell.

    Go play Void with resonate vs any purify. You can get a debuff to stick, continue the fight, then have one of those debuffs purged along with the next one that procs. Agent Venom on node 24 has done this to me countless times over countless wars.
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    ClydaniaClydania Posts: 440 ★★
    Does this mean I can now use voodoo against masochism?
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    GamerGamer Posts: 10,190 ★★★★★
    Clydania said:

    Does this mean I can now use voodoo against masochism?

    No
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    Eb0ny-O-M4wEb0ny-O-M4w Posts: 13,764 ★★★★★
    Clydania said:

    Does this mean I can now use voodoo against masochism?

    If you want to ...
    You could always use him there, not sure why you coulnd't now
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    GamerGamer Posts: 10,190 ★★★★★
    will-o-wisp said:

    Clydania said:

    Does this mean I can now use voodoo against masochism?

    If you want to ...
    You could always use him there, not sure why you coulnd't now
    He sp1 wild just get nullify prettying fast if he don’t stun befor fire it of
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