**Mastery Loadouts**
Due to issues related to the release of Mastery Loadouts, the "free swap" period will be extended.
The new end date will be May 1st.
Due to issues related to the release of Mastery Loadouts, the "free swap" period will be extended.
The new end date will be May 1st.
Time to reconsider 12.0?
Ivanka_Humpalot
Posts: 51 ★
Back when the great ban of 12.0 hit there were a small number of champions that totally dominated the game and Kabam announced that the main reason they wanted to nerf them all was to make a more level playing field where players could choose to play with any champ they wanted to get through the game's content, and where there would be a larger variety of popular champions that were being used. (so they took the handful that were really good and made them suck as bad or worse than the ones that nobody liked)
Players didn't like this approach, Kabam came back and made the nerf less severe so that these champions (Scarlet Witch, StarLord, Thor, Dr Strange, Black Widow) were still much weaker but not completely unplayable. And going in to the future popular champions were never nerfed again, instead weak and unpopular champions were buffed and made stronger. (which never made anybody upset)
So now... two (?) years later and the contest is full of great champions, either newly introduced to the game or old champs that got buffed, and I would say that, arguably, there are many now that are just as strong or stronger than any of the classic champs that got nerfed. Blade, Corvus, Stark-Enhanced Spider-Man, Aegon, Domino, She-Hulk, Hyperion, Medusa, Ghost, Void, Quake, Nick Fury, etc all have some combination of utility and damage potential that make them just as strong as any of these other champs were in their prime, possibly excepting Scarlet Witch who was ridiculous.
And... those older champs never get played anymore. It's kind of sad. With Variant 2 including in its rewards 3 rank up gems that work exclusively with 2015 champions, is it maybe not time to reconsider the 12.0 nerf and possibly undo it?
1. StarLord - the nerf made the smallest difference to him; he's still functionally the same in almost every fight. He's probably fine as is.
2. Thor - since around 12.0 they also changed the way that armor works and even IF he was changed back to his original form he still wouldn't be able to do 200k damage sp3s as a 4-star, I think it's probably safe to completely undo Thor's nerf and give him back all of his armor breaking ability. She-Hulk, Aegon, Domino, Gamora, and even Winter Soldier have more damage potential at this point so why leave the thunder god gimped?
3. Dr. Strange - he was the weakest of the bunch in the first place and the nerf of Strange was really the least called-for of all of them, but he was still a really solid, versatile character that a lot of people enjoyed playing, and a reasonably good AW defender with his strong passive power gain. And now, sadly, nobody uses him. He should be changed back to how he was pre-12.0 completely. Hyperion has a stronger power gain mechanic, and Ghost Rider, Wolverine, etc. all have much stronger regen.
4. Black Widow - I think that even if you gave Black Widow back her 100% ability accuracy reduction she still would not see as much play as some other champs like Blade, Aegon, or Domino, but, I could see an argument for this still being OP. But maybe give her 100% reduction against science champs, at least? And a slight bump vs other classes. Nobody uses her anymore as is.
5. Scarlet Witch - ..... this is the one character of the bunch that I think might be better off staying nerfed. I remember people easily completing Realm of Legends with a 3* Witch back in the day. But, if you're going to leave her nerfed, at least bring her out as a 5*! She wouldn't be as dominant as she once was. And if you're going to keep her permanently as 4*-only then might as well give her back her full power. Wouldn't be able to use her in Act 6 anyway and other end-game content like Labyrinth already has built-in protections against her being so dominant.
It would be nice to see some of these classic characters dusted off in time for Avengers: Endgame and also in time for the 2015 rank-up gems in Variant 2. The meta of the game has changed.
Players didn't like this approach, Kabam came back and made the nerf less severe so that these champions (Scarlet Witch, StarLord, Thor, Dr Strange, Black Widow) were still much weaker but not completely unplayable. And going in to the future popular champions were never nerfed again, instead weak and unpopular champions were buffed and made stronger. (which never made anybody upset)
So now... two (?) years later and the contest is full of great champions, either newly introduced to the game or old champs that got buffed, and I would say that, arguably, there are many now that are just as strong or stronger than any of the classic champs that got nerfed. Blade, Corvus, Stark-Enhanced Spider-Man, Aegon, Domino, She-Hulk, Hyperion, Medusa, Ghost, Void, Quake, Nick Fury, etc all have some combination of utility and damage potential that make them just as strong as any of these other champs were in their prime, possibly excepting Scarlet Witch who was ridiculous.
And... those older champs never get played anymore. It's kind of sad. With Variant 2 including in its rewards 3 rank up gems that work exclusively with 2015 champions, is it maybe not time to reconsider the 12.0 nerf and possibly undo it?
1. StarLord - the nerf made the smallest difference to him; he's still functionally the same in almost every fight. He's probably fine as is.
2. Thor - since around 12.0 they also changed the way that armor works and even IF he was changed back to his original form he still wouldn't be able to do 200k damage sp3s as a 4-star, I think it's probably safe to completely undo Thor's nerf and give him back all of his armor breaking ability. She-Hulk, Aegon, Domino, Gamora, and even Winter Soldier have more damage potential at this point so why leave the thunder god gimped?
3. Dr. Strange - he was the weakest of the bunch in the first place and the nerf of Strange was really the least called-for of all of them, but he was still a really solid, versatile character that a lot of people enjoyed playing, and a reasonably good AW defender with his strong passive power gain. And now, sadly, nobody uses him. He should be changed back to how he was pre-12.0 completely. Hyperion has a stronger power gain mechanic, and Ghost Rider, Wolverine, etc. all have much stronger regen.
4. Black Widow - I think that even if you gave Black Widow back her 100% ability accuracy reduction she still would not see as much play as some other champs like Blade, Aegon, or Domino, but, I could see an argument for this still being OP. But maybe give her 100% reduction against science champs, at least? And a slight bump vs other classes. Nobody uses her anymore as is.
5. Scarlet Witch - ..... this is the one character of the bunch that I think might be better off staying nerfed. I remember people easily completing Realm of Legends with a 3* Witch back in the day. But, if you're going to leave her nerfed, at least bring her out as a 5*! She wouldn't be as dominant as she once was. And if you're going to keep her permanently as 4*-only then might as well give her back her full power. Wouldn't be able to use her in Act 6 anyway and other end-game content like Labyrinth already has built-in protections against her being so dominant.
It would be nice to see some of these classic characters dusted off in time for Avengers: Endgame and also in time for the 2015 rank-up gems in Variant 2. The meta of the game has changed.
38
Comments
>Going back on their decisions
Pick one.
Some more argument for re-strengthening Black Widow I thought of today:
Black Widow reduces opponent's defensive ability accuracy. Aside from having a good crit rate, that's ALL she does. That's her thing. And yet, even at max sig ability, she can only reduce science champs defensive ability accuracy (DAA) by 85% I think, mutants by 55%, and everyone else by 70%. I think this should probably be changed to science champs 100%, mutants 70%, and everyone else 85%. Consider:
Crossbones with 5 stacks of fury reduces ALL champs DAA by 100%.
Elektra with 3/3 Pacify reduces all stunned champs DAA by 100%.
Blade with Ghost Rider, Sparky, and Dormammu synergies reduces all villain and mystic champs DAA by 91%, with 1/3 Pacify if they're stunned that's taken to 100%.
Captain America Infinity War with kinetic charges reduces ALL champs DAA by 100% when using a special 1.
Archangel duped with a reasonably high sig level and 3 stacks of neurotoxin reduces ALL champs DAA by 100%.
GwenPool when duped if she has a combo of 50+ reduces ALL champs DAA by 100%.
Domino when her opponent is unlucky with 3/3 Pacify reduces all stunned champs DAA by 95%.
Falcon when locked-on reduces ALL opponents' DAA by 100%.
And all of these champs do other things in addition to that. In Black Widow's case this is all she's got going for her, so of course she doesn't get used anymore.
Also even if they changed him back how armor rating, negative armor and diminishing returns worked would not put him back to where he was.
Dr.strange didn't have the highest damage but with high skill you could beat entire quests with a 3* and finish with 100% HP. I think he could use a buff to his cycles and power gain to bring him up to par again.
BW is in a werid spot where as a 5* she is fine as is. 100% AAR all the time would be to strong as it would shut down 99% of most nodes like biohazard. I think she needs a bit more of a redesign to fit into the game again.
SL is fine
SW was the most broken thing in the game. Where she is now is a good spot and I feel like if they do release her as a 5* they could cap her sig at 80-85% and she would still be a top 5 champion. As a 5* r5 with CR would be critting more often then you think
The mere fact that people cleared map 5 with full health on their 3* DS and Switch in top tier alliances says enough. A 4-40 DS in the day, pfooh. I daresay if 12.0 was completely reverted, DS 4* would still get picked for 90% of the content. Give me pre-12 DS BW SW SL and I'd 100% A5 without revives (well, collector excluded lmao).
This being said, I would indeed like to see Thor with his original abilities in a post-12.0 meta. BW, I honestly don't care. Lots of champs do what you are suggesting. With higher damage. BW needed Pure Skill fully functional. SW is fine as is.
re: Dr. Strange. I know. And agree.
re: BW: I suggested 100% only vs science champs, which would be fine I think honestly. As for Biohazard just bring someone with bleed immunity and that's already better.
re: SL. Yeah that's what I said.
re: SW. Also what I said. Did you even read my posts?
The purpose of 12.0 was not to stop poweful Champs from existing. It was to implement a system that allowed the game to continue. They literally couldn't create any new content that those Champs couldn't dominate, and that's disaster for the future of the game. It wasn't just the Champs, it was the whole percentage-based system. Which is why not only the Champs changed, but the system as well. Yes, we have powerful Champs, and there will always be stronger ones when it comes to specific content. They're nowhere near the same as the old Champs. They can't be. The system has been changed. Even the "God Tier" might be popular, but they have counters, weaknesses, and only work well in specific conditions.
Previously you had Abilities like 100% AAR, infinite Regen tied into Power Gain, Crit that was multiplied exponentially through Synergies, Nullify, the list goes on and on. Nothing challenged them because mathematically, their stats were amplified beyond what could be challenged. It was the system, Champs, and Synergies all together. So, while we have strong Champs, we do not have ones that dominate everything. They have strengths and weaknesses, and they've gone to great lengths to ensure it doesn't happen again because the last thing a Dev would want is to lose control of future content.
To be as broken or as dominant as they once were you would have to change the whole system back to how it once was, and I wasn't calling for that. Because of diminishing returns and the point system replacing the percentage system Scarlet Witch will never be as powerful as she once was, and because of the reworking of how armor works Thor would not be as powerful as he once was. I said this already.