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Time to Take a Little Class Trip!

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Comments

  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Member Posts: 8,672 ★★★★★
    I agree that it is worded badly. If you can't remember which path you cleared just take both champs needed for the gates.
  • KoperBoyKoperBoy Member Posts: 210 ★★
    RanoMano said:

    Ok something needs to be done about the markers. I have got 6k markers and used them to 100% 2 weeks but I don’t where I am going to get more as I am done on all quest objectives and few arena objectives and i need 6000 just to complete epic . Epic fail unless I pull 5* spider verse or do dungeons 🤮

    "Markers are epic fail because I don't want to do dungeons"

    What are you, 5?

  • TreoTreo Member Posts: 389 ★★
    The grind for this side quest is way to intense ... it would be great if you could tune it done a few notches ... over 200 fights in quests with a spiderverse champ ... 10 2star spiderverse champs ... I still don’t have most done ... because I don’t have the rng or the interest anymore to even try to ... it’s just to much ... the idea of fun ... the intense grind needed no sorry .... if the next one is the same I will just pass ... just like I now pass dungeons because of the to long times to recharge ... arena grinds except if I want a champ .... just playing less and less the more grind it needed ... I don’t mind getting behind ... because I will never get to the top
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,497 Guardian
    Treo said:

    The grind for this side quest is way to intense ... it would be great if you could tune it done a few notches ... over 200 fights in quests with a spiderverse champ ... 10 2star spiderverse champs ... I still don’t have most done ... because I don’t have the rng or the interest anymore to even try to ... it’s just to much ... the idea of fun ... the intense grind needed no sorry .... if the next one is the same I will just pass ... just like I now pass dungeons because of the to long times to recharge ... arena grinds except if I want a champ .... just playing less and less the more grind it needed ... I don’t mind getting behind ... because I will never get to the top

    200 fights with spiderverse champs is something you could knock out with ten fights a day in three weeks. And pulling ten 2* spiderverse champs is one of the easiest goals to reach. If those two represent what you'd describe as "intense grinding" I'm not sure what to say except the game would be a hollow shell of itself if the difficulty was lowered below those levels.

    I'm aware that different people have different progress levels in the game, different life circumstances, and different degrees of challenge, but in the grand scheme of things that's still an extremely low bar to set for the whole game to follow. At some point, you just have to accept that you may not be able to do everything to the highest degree the game throws at the players, and if that's unacceptable to you then you probably have to find a far more casual effort capped game.
  • PintzzPintzz Member Posts: 297 ★★
    I've got all the two-five star champ objectives. But also opened 100 of my hoarded PHC shard crystals which completed the two and three Star. If I didn't have that probably wouldn't have completed.
  • RagamugginGunnerRagamugginGunner Member Posts: 2,210 ★★★★★
    There's just so much energy you need to spend this month. 4 energy a tile for Epic is a bit excessive.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,497 Guardian

    I normally don’t respond to you but in this case I’ll make an exception.

    I can't wait.

    For you to tell this person that maybe it’s above their skill or they are too casual to complete the objectives is laughable.

    Well, I didn't say that, so I guess you changed your mind about that exception. This isn't a response to me.

    And whatever your in-game resume is, if you think 200 fights in a five week event is too much for the game, something you don't even have to go out of your way to do because most players probably fight over 200 quest fights in five weeks, then my advice is the same: the game's grind is probably too high for your gaming sensibilities, but I wouldn't want the game to target that mark. Whether the shield markers take too much effort to gather on the whole is debatable, but if that's your point of pain that's way outside the range of what I think is reasonably debatable.

  • winterthurwinterthur Member Posts: 8,058 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    I normally don’t respond to you but in this case I’ll make an exception.

    I can't wait.

    For you to tell this person that maybe it’s above their skill or they are too casual to complete the objectives is laughable.

    if you think 200 fights in a five week event is too much for the game, something you don't even have to go out of your way to do because most players probably fight over 200 quest fights in five weeks,

    I think the message is not the 200 quest fights but luck out in RNG on PHCs, 3 to 5 Star hero crystals.
  • bloodyCainbloodyCain Member Posts: 910 ★★★
    Ok. So each chapter has 3 paths and you need a permission slip for each path. There are 4 chapters for each difficulty.
    It means you need 12 permission slip for each difficulty. You can pick whatever difficulty you wanna do but you WILL NEVER get to do all differenties.
    Why?
    Because you won't get enough SHIELD markers to buy the permission slip needed.
    I'm currently trying my best to do all the mini missions (using symbiote champ etc) and still have around 8500 markers. Barely reaching 9k markers.
    Meaning I could possibly cannot 100% an Epic difficulty and losing a chance to get the rewards.

    Will we get more markers towards the end of this monthly event? Hopefully I can get an answer for that
  • Apocalypse189Apocalypse189 Member Posts: 1,128 ★★★

    Ok. So each chapter has 3 paths and you need a permission slip for each path. There are 4 chapters for each difficulty.
    It means you need 12 permission slip for each difficulty. You can pick whatever difficulty you wanna do but you WILL NEVER get to do all differenties.
    Why?
    Because you won't get enough SHIELD markers to buy the permission slip needed.
    I'm currently trying my best to do all the mini missions (using symbiote champ etc) and still have around 8500 markers. Barely reaching 9k markers.
    Meaning I could possibly cannot 100% an Epic difficulty and losing a chance to get the rewards.

    Will we get more markers towards the end of this monthly event? Hopefully I can get an answer for that

    Once you complete week 4 you get more Markers, so I'd do master first get the markers then do epic or however works for you
  • RulllorRulllor Member Posts: 155
    Worst idea is this class gates. I am uncollected and not pulled black symbiote spider yet so no 100% for me. Pls let me buy champs even 1* please I am sad this sucks
  • J_SenderoJ_Sendero Member Posts: 10
    How are we supposed to fight vulture 50 times in a week? I cant find him in any story content (event or campaign) and I've spent literally my whole day trying to find spiderverse heros, and havent come across a single vulture. And I'm supposed to find and beat him 50 times in 7 days?
  • crogscrogs Member Posts: 772 ★★★

    Its not possible to get enough markers to 100% epic, is it?

    I'm not the most active player. I finished epic and master and have 7500 shields left (keep in mind you get them for completion and exploration too) . All I've done this month is content that led to earning them via the objectives. I did get lucky (or unlucky on that actual pull) pulling a spider 5*, but I now have two 5* crystals to open. And to say I'm not that active, I haven't even earned a 2nd t5b yet. Still 42k or so away from my 2nd. Sigh.

    As far as arena, I got doc ock twice to help earn the arena objectives. First time I've gone for a basic since magneto's first run at basic ages ago. Much easier to hit 1.7 now.
  • crogscrogs Member Posts: 772 ★★★
    edited July 2019

    My in game name is sophia2901. I am at level 45 but still I am unable to view level 4 or 5 permission slip. I can only see upto level 3.

    My nephew is having a similar issue. I wish you could follow a post because I'd like to see the answer you receive.

    It may be dependent on the level of the story quest you're currently in. I've become uncollected and have access to all permission slips. Meanwhile, my nephew working on completing Act 4 can only see up to Heroic (level 3) similar to what you have shown.
    Guessing you didn't read the first post of this thread. What level you're at is pretty much meaningless. It's what title you're up to via story questing. Apparently that's all they care about when determining what you're allowed to unlock or special gifts and rewards you deserve. I think it's BS, but it is what it is. Also rather dumb they don't spell out below in the actual quest info. Why you should have to go to the forums for basic entry info makes zero sense. But when does this company ever make sense?

    Level 3 Permission Slip (Heroic Difficulty) - 500 S.H.I.E.L.D. Markers (Available for Proven and beyond)
    Level 4 Permission Slip (Master Difficulty) - 750 S.H.I.E.L.D. Markers (Available for Conqueror and beyond)
    Level 5 Permission Slip (Epic Difficulty) - 1000 S.H.I.E.L.D. Markers (Available for Uncollected and beyond)
  • crogscrogs Member Posts: 772 ★★★
    Triguy said:


    The way the warning is worded it 100% sounds like you would be refunded your entry ticket. Kabam needs to fix this. There is no way of knowing which paths you've already taken unless you just happen to remember so it's necessary to allow for a ticket refund in case I grab the wrong champs for the gate or path you needed. It is definitely not refunding entry tickets.

    You mean the bright red letters that say you'll need another ticket to re-enter wasn't a giveaway?

    Depending on your roster, you shouldn't need more than 3 champs to finish an epic path. So if you are not capable of writing something down, remembering or just throwing both gated champs and thee top champs in, well, shame on you then. Granted it'd be easier if kabam spelled out which path you finished. A little x over the one gate would solve that problem, but it's not like you can't take steps to remember all on your own.

    Heck, just do the center path to completion. Then do one gate. You have enough energy to start the 2nd gate so it should be fresh in your head who you just used since you have to swap them out. Then start the 2nd gate and finish when you have enough energy. Rinse and repeat. I think the one with agent evenom I just brought both gate champs along with synergy with Rulk and x23 and whatever random champ to use.
  • crogscrogs Member Posts: 772 ★★★
    AndiYTDE said:

    I just hope Kabam gets rid of randomized rewards in the near future... For doing 100% in the epic difficulty I could get either a 4* Iron Patriot or a 5* Symbiote Supreme, that´s just a hell of a difference...

    You complete master and epic and get a guaranteed 5*, a full t2a, 1000 6* shards, Epic and Ultimate crystal plus 5000 shield markers. Not to mention the t4b and t4c shards/shard crystals and full t4c crystal. I'd like to see a little more 6* shards and t5b for epic. But in general I thought it was fairly helpful.

    Doing master and unc EQ as well made it a nice month for 5* crystals and rank up help. And for me it was the first time I've explored uncollected.
  • HidanHidan Member Posts: 3
    about this event, I think the rewards of the master and epic could be better
  • djr17djr17 Member Posts: 675 ★★★
    I think part of the reason it isn't just a 5* spider crystal is that would be a guaranteed pull for the objective.

    I don't think it's a very good reason, but I'd bet it went into the discussion of rewards.
  • BrandoBrando Member Posts: 1
    edited July 2019

    I have a problem, I mistakenly bought 3 super mission tickets in epic, but I already passed it, now I can't sell or use them, what can I do?
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,497 Guardian
    AndiYTDE said:

    What´s the problem with giving out fixed rewards for everyone?

    Honestly, it is because games that do that have lower engagement. It is really that simple. People keep voting with their words to have less random rewards, and they vote with their time and their money to have more random rewards. Convince everyone to spend more time and more money on games with fewer random rewards, and you'll change this. No amount of asking will do anything.

    Asking why games insist on making random rewards is like asking why fast food restaurants keep making food no one wants to eat. Nobody cares what anyone asks them to cook. They only care what people actually want to pay for. People asked McDonalds to make healthier food. When they did, sales dropped dramatically. Their conclusion was to stop listening to the people asking for healthier food, because they were only asking, not buying. The only healthy options that still exist are the ones people actually ended up paying for.

    McDonalds makes the food they make not in spite of what people want, but because that is what people want, and everyone who says differently is just wrong. The people saying no one likes random rewards or wants them reduced or eliminated are just wrong. They can get a lot of people to agree with them, but can't seem to get anyone to spend time or money on anything else.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,497 Guardian
    AndiYTDE said:

    DNA3000 said:

    AndiYTDE said:

    What´s the problem with giving out fixed rewards for everyone?

    Honestly, it is because games that do that have lower engagement. It is really that simple. People keep voting with their words to have less random rewards, and they vote with their time and their money to have more random rewards. Convince everyone to spend more time and more money on games with fewer random rewards, and you'll change this. No amount of asking will do anything.

    Asking why games insist on making random rewards is like asking why fast food restaurants keep making food no one wants to eat. Nobody cares what anyone asks them to cook. They only care what people actually want to pay for. People asked McDonalds to make healthier food. When they did, sales dropped dramatically. Their conclusion was to stop listening to the people asking for healthier food, because they were only asking, not buying. The only healthy options that still exist are the ones people actually ended up paying for.

    McDonalds makes the food they make not in spite of what people want, but because that is what people want, and everyone who says differently is just wrong. The people saying no one likes random rewards or wants them reduced or eliminated are just wrong. They can get a lot of people to agree with them, but can't seem to get anyone to spend time or money on anything else.
    Your example doesn´t work, like at all. Who would quit the game if the rewards for a side quest were not that random anymore? Not a single type of person comes to my mind. Plus, what you´re saying doesn´t make any sense at all. Just ask yourself one question: If they had put in a 5* Spider-Verse crystal (which would have been possible considering that a similar 5* crystal was a reward for a far easier quest with a similar structure almost a year ago), who would have said "But I want an 80% chance at a 4* hero!"? If you think anybody would have said that, you´re lying to yourself and you know that.
    Nobody would have been hurt if the rewards was not a legendary crystal, but a 5* crystal. It would have hurt neither the players, the game nor Kabam. There is literally not a single logical reason for that decision.
    No one likes to lose. But not many people play games that have no chance to win either. If every reward is identical, there's no chance to lose, but there's also no chance to win. And it doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense to you, because this isn't about theory, this is about history. Random rewards are proven to work, not theorized to work. The games industry is full of game designers that disagree with you because all the game designers that think like you went out of business.

    There's a lot of room for nuance, for people willing to discuss nuance. How exactly we should implement and integrate random rewards into games is an ongoing discussion in the industry. But once you argue for removing random rewards on principle, because you believe people don't want random rewards in general, you're basing your arguments on a principle already proven wrong too many times for anyone to be willing to waste time making a game just to prove them wrong again.

    You're arguing that relativity is wrong because you don't understand it, and no one you knows understands it either. What you don't seem to understand is that I'm not advocating for random rewards because I think they are "logical" I'm simply stating the completely uncontroversial fact that they work in games like this because players gravitate to the games that have them, and away from the games that lack them. Why is a question for psychologists. That it happens is an observable fact.
  • GrandiddyChrisGrandiddyChris Member Posts: 2
    edited July 2019
    In the event, it says “all items will be refunded” when you back out of the class trip. So why didn’t i get my ticket back? I have one path left in epic and I don’t have a chance to get any more markers!!
  • FingfangfoomfanesFingfangfoomfanes Member Posts: 1,102 ★★★
    Sorry if i havent searched or read yet, but what happens to left over markers? I have 6k and cant find any desirable items to buy at the souvenir store. Any 5 star AG to be issued later? TIA
  • MagrailothosMagrailothos Member Posts: 5,892 ★★★★★
    edited July 2019
    AndiYTDE said:

    DNA3000 said:

    AndiYTDE said:

    DNA3000 said:

    AndiYTDE said:

    What´s the problem with giving out fixed rewards for everyone?

    Honestly, it is because games that do that have lower engagement. It is really that simple. People keep voting with their words to have less random rewards, and they vote with their time and their money to have more random rewards. Convince everyone to spend more time and more money on games with fewer random rewards, and you'll change this. No amount of asking will do anything.

    Asking why games insist on making random rewards is like asking why fast food restaurants keep making food no one wants to eat. Nobody cares what anyone asks them to cook. They only care what people actually want to pay for. People asked McDonalds to make healthier food. When they did, sales dropped dramatically. Their conclusion was to stop listening to the people asking for healthier food, because they were only asking, not buying. The only healthy options that still exist are the ones people actually ended up paying for.

    McDonalds makes the food they make not in spite of what people want, but because that is what people want, and everyone who says differently is just wrong. The people saying no one likes random rewards or wants them reduced or eliminated are just wrong. They can get a lot of people to agree with them, but can't seem to get anyone to spend time or money on anything else.
    Your example doesn´t work, like at all. Who would quit the game if the rewards for a side quest were not that random anymore? Not a single type of person comes to my mind. Plus, what you´re saying doesn´t make any sense at all. Just ask yourself one question: If they had put in a 5* Spider-Verse crystal (which would have been possible considering that a similar 5* crystal was a reward for a far easier quest with a similar structure almost a year ago), who would have said "But I want an 80% chance at a 4* hero!"? If you think anybody would have said that, you´re lying to yourself and you know that.
    Nobody would have been hurt if the rewards was not a legendary crystal, but a 5* crystal. It would have hurt neither the players, the game nor Kabam. There is literally not a single logical reason for that decision.
    No one likes to lose. But not many people play games that have no chance to win either. If every reward is identical, there's no chance to lose, but there's also no chance to win. And it doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense to you, because this isn't about theory, this is about history. Random rewards are proven to work, not theorized to work. The games industry is full of game designers that disagree with you because all the game designers that think like you went out of business.

    There's a lot of room for nuance, for people willing to discuss nuance. How exactly we should implement and integrate random rewards into games is an ongoing discussion in the industry. But once you argue for removing random rewards on principle, because you believe people don't want random rewards in general, you're basing your arguments on a principle already proven wrong too many times for anyone to be willing to waste time making a game just to prove them wrong again.

    You're arguing that relativity is wrong because you don't understand it, and no one you knows understands it either. What you don't seem to understand is that I'm not advocating for random rewards because I think they are "logical" I'm simply stating the completely uncontroversial fact that they work in games like this because players gravitate to the games that have them, and away from the games that lack them. Why is a question for psychologists. That it happens is an observable fact.
    You say that people actually like random rewards, but you have literally no proof of that.
    He never did people liked random rewards. He said they preferentially choose games in which rewards are random
    AndiYTDE said:

    DNA3000 said:

    AndiYTDE said:

    DNA3000 said:

    AndiYTDE said:

    What´s the problem with giving out fixed rewards for everyone?

    Honestly, it is because games that do that have lower engagement. It is really that simple. People keep voting with their words to have less random rewards, and they vote with their time and their money to have more random rewards. Convince everyone to spend more time and more money on games with fewer random rewards, and you'll change this. No amount of asking will do anything.

    Asking why games insist on making random rewards is like asking why fast food restaurants keep making food no one wants to eat. Nobody cares what anyone asks them to cook. They only care what people actually want to pay for. People asked McDonalds to make healthier food. When they did, sales dropped dramatically. Their conclusion was to stop listening to the people asking for healthier food, because they were only asking, not buying. The only healthy options that still exist are the ones people actually ended up paying for.

    McDonalds makes the food they make not in spite of what people want, but because that is what people want, and everyone who says differently is just wrong. The people saying no one likes random rewards or wants them reduced or eliminated are just wrong. They can get a lot of people to agree with them, but can't seem to get anyone to spend time or money on anything else.
    Your example doesn´t work, like at all. Who would quit the game if the rewards for a side quest were not that random anymore? Not a single type of person comes to my mind. Plus, what you´re saying doesn´t make any sense at all. Just ask yourself one question: If they had put in a 5* Spider-Verse crystal (which would have been possible considering that a similar 5* crystal was a reward for a far easier quest with a similar structure almost a year ago), who would have said "But I want an 80% chance at a 4* hero!"? If you think anybody would have said that, you´re lying to yourself and you know that.
    Nobody would have been hurt if the rewards was not a legendary crystal, but a 5* crystal. It would have hurt neither the players, the game nor Kabam. There is literally not a single logical reason for that decision.
    No one likes to lose. But not many people play games that have no chance to win either. If every reward is identical, there's no chance to lose, but there's also no chance to win. And it doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense to you, because this isn't about theory, this is about history. Random rewards are proven to work, not theorized to work. The games industry is full of game designers that disagree with you because all the game designers that think like you went out of business.

    There's a lot of room for nuance, for people willing to discuss nuance. How exactly we should implement and integrate random rewards into games is an ongoing discussion in the industry. But once you argue for removing random rewards on principle, because you believe people don't want random rewards in general, you're basing your arguments on a principle already proven wrong too many times for anyone to be willing to waste time making a game just to prove them wrong again.

    You're arguing that relativity is wrong because you don't understand it, and no one you knows understands it either. What you don't seem to understand is that I'm not advocating for random rewards because I think they are "logical" I'm simply stating the completely uncontroversial fact that they work in games like this because players gravitate to the games that have them, and away from the games that lack them. Why is a question for psychologists. That it happens is an observable fact.

    What I see is people complaining about them, for example about the AW Season crystals for over a year now. I only saw frustration about random rewards..
    the majority of the community vocally expressed their negative feelings towards random rewards.
    I have yet to see anyone complaining about pulling 6* Cull or Corvus.

    People's frustration is not the problem: frustration drives people to try again. That's one of the fundamental drivers behind all gambling behaviour; and that's what keeps the game going - people want to 'win'.

    You want proof? You don't need fancy scientific or psychological theory here: Have you ever been to Vegas or Atlantic City? Those massive shiny casinos don't stay in business by giving money away. They offer the possibility of getting rich; but the vast majority of patrons leave poorer than they arrived. Sure, some will never come back. But as long as you can keep pulling in new customers, you don't need to retain all the old ones; just sustain enough interest to keep the business going.

    Seriously: frustration is part of the business model!
  • Scouse92Scouse92 Member Posts: 26

    What rarities does the Legendary Homesick Crystal contain? Also is it 80% 4* / 20% 5* drop rates?

    The Legendary Homesick Crystal contains 4 and 5-Star Champions, and has the 80/20 4-Star 5-Star Split.

    Of course, 4-Star Rhino is not included.
    I ended up pulling a 5* carnage and then with the 5* shards I revived ended up pulling a 5* nightcrawler so overall I wasn’t too disappointed
  • crogscrogs Member Posts: 772 ★★★

    In the event, it says “all items will be refunded” when you back out of the class trip. So why didn’t i get my ticket back? I have one path left in epic and I don’t have a chance to get any more markers!!

    Read the bright red lettering next time.
  • JediJones77JediJones77 Member Posts: 170
    MCOC Team said:


    Have spare S.H.I.E.L.D. Markers? In the last week of the event, we’ll be adding a selection of items for you to spend your spare Markers on! These items are not as good as the rewards that you can earn in the Class Trip quests, so if you can do the Quests, we suggest doing those first!

    So, did they make a mistake in this text saying "the last week of the event?" It seems like the items they list in the first post were added by the second week of the event. Are they going to add more items to the store next week?
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,497 Guardian

    People's frustration is not the problem: frustration drives people to try again. That's one of the fundamental drivers behind all gambling behaviour; and that's what keeps the game going - people want to 'win'.

    I don't think it is the frustration itself that drives people, rather it is the anticipation. The reward itself isn't the thrilling part, it is the more of the denouement. It is the not knowing if and when that provides the excitement.

    There's a theory in psychology I happen to be a proponent of called overjustification. Experiments suggest that when you deliver fixed and predictable rewards to an activity people were already predisposed to do, they psychologically "transfer" a desire to do the activity into a desire to earn rewards for the activity. When you remove the rewards, the people either stop doing the activity or do it far less than before you started rewarding it. The conjecture is that the reward displaces enjoyment of an activity, which is another way of saying rewards make people like activities less. This is problematic because of acclimation: when you provide some kind of stimulation to people, they get used to it, and it takes larger and larger levels of stimulus to generate the same reaction.

    Combine overjustification with acclimation and you get a situation where providing rewards that are too fixed and too predictable is an unsustainable situation: you are invisibly causing people to be repelled from an activity unless an unsustainable spiral of increasing rewards is given. Switching to variable randomized rewards causes the opposite effect: the operand conditioning effect where people are psychologically encouraged to pursue the activity in spite of the lack of rewards, provided they happen often enough.

    This makes the whole situation of what is ethical in game design very tricky. People often say that psychological manipulation is intrinsically wrong, but they presume only random rewards are manipulative. Evidence suggests fixed rewards are also equally manipulative, just in different and often counter-productive ways. So unfortunately you can't take the coward's way out and say you'll avoid manipulation, because it isn't random rewards that are manipulative, it is rewards themselves that are manipulative. You have to ask the more difficult question what kinds of manipulation are fair, and which are not.

    Incidentally, something I've been thinking about for a while now is whether the game is often not random enough. Consider T5B rewards in AW. For a lot of people, that's the reward they focus on. It is a random reward, but is it psychologically unpredictable? Doesn't everyone predict 1k? If they do, the reward isn't random in the psychological sense, and it can actually be damaging the enjoyment of those rewards that it is "random" but not "unpredictable" enough. Maybe they are triggering both overjustification and acclimation.

    Aren't a lot of people complaining that they are only participating in seasons for that reward, and it is always not enough for the effort, and it is always 1k (even if it technically isn't)? Doesn't that sound like overjustification and acclimation? That's not proof (and it is a big oversimplification), but it is interesting.
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