Summoner Sigil - Discussion Thread

Hey Summoners!

We've just announced the introduction of our brand new service, the Summoner Sigil!

The Summoner Sigil is a subscription based service that delivers a number of Bonuses, all for the introductory price of a Star-Lord’s Loot Bag (9.99 USD) every 30 days. Find all the information, and learn about our 7-Day Free Trial for all Summoners (Level 10+), over here!

Comments

Stellar

24 pages of comments and apart editions of some comments by a moderator, there are no "official" comment from Kabam.
So it looks like a "let them comment, whatever they say we have already decided"
They commented on the very first or 2nd pages..... Kabam Miike is as official as it gets. Others are just the admins while Miike is the bridge between the forums and Kabam.

Comments were only to clarify the workout of the announcement. Nothing said concerning all the comments of all the summoners on the 21 pages left

The only thing that could move Kabam would be if the total of buyers is significantly lower than what they expected !
That and only that would make them rethink about this subscription and the price they ask for

GroundedWisdom

Were you expecting them to say they're not going to offer it anymore?

Demonzfyre

24 pages of comments and apart editions of some comments by a moderator, there are no "official" comment from Kabam.
So it looks like a "let them comment, whatever they say we have already decided"
They commented on the very first or 2nd pages..... Kabam Miike is as official as it gets. Others are just the admins while Miike is the bridge between the forums and Kabam.
Comments were only to clarify the workout of the announcement. Nothing said concerning all the comments of all the summoners on the 21 pages left

The only thing that could move Kabam would be if the total of buyers is significantly lower than what they expected !
That and only that would make them rethink about this subscription and the price they ask for

I mean they arw going to release it. What would expect them to say? Its not a bad deal just not a deal F2P want to see.

xNig

24 pages of comments and apart editions of some comments by a moderator, there are no "official" comment from Kabam.
So it looks like a "let them comment, whatever they say we have already decided"
They commented on the very first or 2nd pages..... Kabam Miike is as official as it gets. Others are just the admins while Miike is the bridge between the forums and Kabam.
Comments were only to clarify the workout of the announcement. Nothing said concerning all the comments of all the summoners on the 21 pages left

The only thing that could move Kabam would be if the total of buyers is significantly lower than what they expected !
That and only that would make them rethink about this subscription and the price they ask for

Which, I can assure you, won’t be true.

You see... forums are full of people who say one thing and do another.

#boycottmcoc? “Wow that Cyber Monday offer is swwwwweeeetttt. I’ll boycott after I purchase it.”

Quit the game? “Cav crystals is going to put an end to the game! I’m going to quit the game to show my discontent.” Then proceeds to login after an hour.

People like to exaggerate their statements / threats to make it more believable but doesn’t know it usually works the other way round. If you were to make a list of those who threatened to quit because of ANY issue and their respective igns, then check back a month later, you’ll get what I mean. 😊

ESF

And this marks the beginning of running non-pay players out the game. It will be too hard for us to keep up
If it marks anything, it marks the beginning of running out of the game players that play for free but believe they are entitled to decide what the paying players are allowed to get for their money. .

Finally, someone said the quiet part out loud -- long overdue, IMO

Stellar

Were you expecting them to say they're not going to offer it anymore?

I mean they arw going to release it. What would expect them to say? Its not a bad deal just not a deal F2P want to see.

No i am not expecting them to make all this free for all, even if that kind of enhancements should have been implemented long ago and available for free.

Kabam is a commercial entity and as such it will do everything in its power to gain money with their product. They would no more exist if no one spend money on their game. I did too spend money on it in 2017 and 2018 (i decided to stop spending for this year)

But, as these enhancements were largely asked for by a majority of player, they could have made it less expensive. Maybe 1 or 2 $ per month. That would have been great for everyone. Ok they have to pay the developers and eventually make profit to continue, but i am sure that would be possible at a lower price.

Every one would be happy, Summoner by paying less and Kabam by selling this service to many more customers

GroundedWisdom

Were you expecting them to say they're not going to offer it anymore?

I mean they arw going to release it. What would expect them to say? Its not a bad deal just not a deal F2P want to see.
No i am not expecting them to make all this free for all, even if that kind of enhancements should have been implemented long ago and available for free.

Kabam is a commercial entity and as such it will do everything in its power to gain money with their product. They would no more exist if no one spend money on their game. I did too spend money on it in 2017 and 2018 (i decided to stop spending for this year)

But, as these enhancements were largely asked for by a majority of player, they could have made it less expensive. Maybe 1 or 2 $ per month. That would have been great for everyone. Ok they have to pay the developers and eventually make profit to continue, but i am sure that would be possible at a lower price.

Every one would be happy, Summoner by paying less and Kabam by selling this service to many more customers

You think everything that comes with the Subscription should be a buck or two a month? I mean, some might or might not have use for some aspects, but stop and add up everything included. $10 itself is a deal.

PARASCYTHE

Lots of crying going on about enhancements, but I’m sure all the f2p accounts are paying Kabam’s bills and salaries too. Don’t like it, don’t play, your f2p account isn’t going to be missed. I’ve been watching the boards for years and next month it’ll be something else, another nerf or OP champ...it never ends, you choose your drama.

Zuko_ILC

VIP subscriptions are fine....its what they are offering that's not great. Its offensive to most paying customers. And paying customers opinions definitely matter to most businesses. When they don't customers leave and lose faith in companies. Theres a long history of proof of this happening. You would think companies would learn from past mistakes and customer feedback. But it doesn't matter. If you like it get it if you don't then don't buy it. I have no use for it so won't spend on this offer but someone else may think its great and want to buy it. And some will say they will buy it and wont lol. At the end of the day we view our concerns because we dont want the game we love to end....so why wouldn't a company listen to customer feedback. We want to give our money to something we care about.

GroundedWisdom

Actually it seems to be more offensive to people who aren't spending, judging by the feedback. People who spend are either interested or not. I'm a spender. I don't find it at all offensive.

Demonzfyre

Were you expecting them to say they're not going to offer it anymore?

I mean they arw going to release it. What would expect them to say? Its not a bad deal just not a deal F2P want to see.
No i am not expecting them to make all this free for all, even if that kind of enhancements should have been implemented long ago and available for free.

Kabam is a commercial entity and as such it will do everything in its power to gain money with their product. They would no more exist if no one spend money on their game. I did too spend money on it in 2017 and 2018 (i decided to stop spending for this year)

But, as these enhancements were largely asked for by a majority of player, they could have made it less expensive. Maybe 1 or 2 $ per month. That would have been great for everyone. Ok they have to pay the developers and eventually make profit to continue, but i am sure that would be possible at a lower price.

Every one would be happy, Summoner by paying less and Kabam by selling this service to many more customers

I keep seeing this statement of "it should have been free". Based on what? Why should it be free? No one who said that so far has had an actual valid reason why it SHOULD be free.

GroundedWisdom

Were you expecting them to say they're not going to offer it anymore?

I mean they arw going to release it. What would expect them to say? Its not a bad deal just not a deal F2P want to see.
No i am not expecting them to make all this free for all, even if that kind of enhancements should have been implemented long ago and available for free.

Kabam is a commercial entity and as such it will do everything in its power to gain money with their product. They would no more exist if no one spend money on their game. I did too spend money on it in 2017 and 2018 (i decided to stop spending for this year)

But, as these enhancements were largely asked for by a majority of player, they could have made it less expensive. Maybe 1 or 2 $ per month. That would have been great for everyone. Ok they have to pay the developers and eventually make profit to continue, but i am sure that would be possible at a lower price.

Every one would be happy, Summoner by paying less and Kabam by selling this service to many more customers
I keep seeing this statement of "it should have been free". Based on what? Why should it be free? No one who said that so far has had an actual valid reason why it SHOULD be free.

Essentially, because people have been asking for some of the benefits, they've decided they're necessary for "quality of life". Therefore, they see the game as charging for necessary changes.

DNA3000

so why wouldn't a company listen to customer feedback.

A couple dozen people complained about the subs. I suspect the company is going to weight the couple thousand people that buy the sub somewhat higher.

More than one person has said, in reference to Kabam, that past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. Well, this goes for the forums as well. The forums have given feedback many times in the past, and Kabam has seen first hand how the playerbase as a whole responds to the same changes in terms of players playing and player spending. Kabam should weight the credibility of the forums on the basis of their past performance in reflecting, or failing to reflect, the playerbase as a whole.

In my judgment, that correlation is extremely low.

Kabam listens to player feedback. It is just not the feedback you want them to listen to. They listen to how the players react to changes with their playing and their spending. Those things count for more than players posting, as they should.

ESF

Were you expecting them to say they're not going to offer it anymore?

I mean they arw going to release it. What would expect them to say? Its not a bad deal just not a deal F2P want to see.
No i am not expecting them to make all this free for all, even if that kind of enhancements should have been implemented long ago and available for free.

Kabam is a commercial entity and as such it will do everything in its power to gain money with their product. They would no more exist if no one spend money on their game. I did too spend money on it in 2017 and 2018 (i decided to stop spending for this year)

But, as these enhancements were largely asked for by a majority of player, they could have made it less expensive. Maybe 1 or 2 $ per month. That would have been great for everyone. Ok they have to pay the developers and eventually make profit to continue, but i am sure that would be possible at a lower price.

Every one would be happy, Summoner by paying less and Kabam by selling this service to many more customers
I keep seeing this statement of "it should have been free". Based on what? Why should it be free? No one who said that so far has had an actual valid reason why it SHOULD be free.

I played Marvel Heroes for the last two years before it folded. During that time, I leveled up a ton of characters and equipment. Blew past the initial inventory slots.

So I had to make a choice: Let the gear go that I honestly didn't need and probably would never use, or pay for extra inventory slots.

I thought about it for a while -- a few days. Went back and forth.

I finally decided to pay for the slots.

Now, I'm not saying that because I could afford to do so and don't understand that others might not, or might be kids who don't have access to online pay mechanisms.

I'm saying this because your post...see, my opinion is this: People are coddled a bit too much in these scenarios, just because this is a mobile game with fictional characters.

Whereas a lot of this stuff is simply life lessons, and people either don't want to say it or acknowledge the truth.

I don't watch the YouTube people, but my understanding is that there's guys out there with lots of videos who are completely F2P, and there are some other guys who spend a ton of cash.

My point, my opinion only, is that we would all be better served if people understood that's life. That's reality. That's choices.

We can't all do whatever we want. We can't all have whatever we want. Some people figure out ways to do things for free or little expense. Some people pay their way through the same obstacles.

There have been multiple times when I have vehemently disagreed with Kabam policy. I have said so.

But utlimately, the bottom line that isn't emphasized enough is your point: People need to understand that just because you want something or think something or believe something doesn't mean it is going to be that something.

We coddle too many people in life into thinking that just because they believe something that it should matter to someone else ENOUGH FOR THEM TO ACT. When in reality, the courtesy extended is listening to what you have to say, no more.

It's unfortunate that more people aren't going to read your post for the truth that it is -- because people today aren't taught the difference between having a belief/opinion and realizing that their opinion doesn't always change what someone else is going to do, and then you have to decide whether to be part of that relationship any longer.

We teach too many people that others have to change to accommodate them, and while it's great if it happens, it's actually bad that we teach people that they SHOULD get more things in situations where there are reasons that they might not

Demonzfyre

Were you expecting them to say they're not going to offer it anymore?

I mean they arw going to release it. What would expect them to say? Its not a bad deal just not a deal F2P want to see.
No i am not expecting them to make all this free for all, even if that kind of enhancements should have been implemented long ago and available for free.

Kabam is a commercial entity and as such it will do everything in its power to gain money with their product. They would no more exist if no one spend money on their game. I did too spend money on it in 2017 and 2018 (i decided to stop spending for this year)

But, as these enhancements were largely asked for by a majority of player, they could have made it less expensive. Maybe 1 or 2 $ per month. That would have been great for everyone. Ok they have to pay the developers and eventually make profit to continue, but i am sure that would be possible at a lower price.

Every one would be happy, Summoner by paying less and Kabam by selling this service to many more customers
I keep seeing this statement of "it should have been free". Based on what? Why should it be free? No one who said that so far has had an actual valid reason why it SHOULD be free.
Essentially, because people have been asking for some of the benefits, they've decided they're necessary for "quality of life". Therefore, they see the game as charging for necessary changes.

Thata the only reason so far but it's not a valid reason. Just asking for it doesn't mean it should have been free.

I mean I've been asking for free Odins for years through the summoners sanctum surveys. So shouldn't it be free by now?

PARASCYTHE

People pay for an edge, more or better resources, better or more odds in their favor, that’s the nature, free doesn’t get those perks by design you pay to speed up the process, not all are equal stop acting like it should be.

DNA3000

But, as these enhancements were largely asked for by a majority of player, they could have made it less expensive. Maybe 1 or 2 $ per month. That would have been great for everyone. Ok they have to pay the developers and eventually make profit to continue, but i am sure that would be possible at a lower price.

Every one would be happy, Summoner by paying less and Kabam by selling this service to many more customers

Not really. Games like this have to balance the value of cash with the value of gameplay. In oversimplified terms, everything costs a certain amount of time to earn, and a certain amount of money to buy. If something takes ten hours of gameplay to earn and a hundred dollars of cash to buy, the game is implicitly saying that one hour of gameplay is worth ten dollars. But if that thing costs less, like say ten dollars, then the value changes to one hour of gameplay being worth only one dollar. In effect, the cheaper things are, the more actual gameplay gets devalued.

For a game to be able to attract a healthy number of free to play players, those players have to believe that their gameplay is rewarded, and one way to value gameplay being rewarded is to see what the pseudo-cash value of that gameplay is. The cheaper things are, the less value gameplay has, and the less incentive there is for anyone to play the game.

A game doesn't become pay to play when it sells big things for big bucks. A game becomes pay to play when it starts selling everything for very little cash. Because then everyone starts to believe they have to spend that cash, or else they will be left behind by everyone else who will pay it, because it is so cheap. The vast majority of game players don't care if they fall behind the top 1% spenders. They do care if they fall behind 90% of the players, because they think everyone is spending.

I don't know why this is so hard to understand. F2P games do not want everyone spending. They aren't trying to get as many people to spend as possible. They want a lot of people to spend, and no matter how hard they try they won't get more than a small fraction to spend. But it would be a catastrophe if most people spent, if it choked off new free to play players. They'd just become a subscription game, and those tend to do worse than F2P games.

Mathking13

Were you expecting them to say they're not going to offer it anymore?

I mean they arw going to release it. What would expect them to say? Its not a bad deal just not a deal F2P want to see.
No i am not expecting them to make all this free for all, even if that kind of enhancements should have been implemented long ago and available for free.

Kabam is a commercial entity and as such it will do everything in its power to gain money with their product. They would no more exist if no one spend money on their game. I did too spend money on it in 2017 and 2018 (i decided to stop spending for this year)

But, as these enhancements were largely asked for by a majority of player, they could have made it less expensive. Maybe 1 or 2 $ per month. That would have been great for everyone. Ok they have to pay the developers and eventually make profit to continue, but i am sure that would be possible at a lower price.

Every one would be happy, Summoner by paying less and Kabam by selling this service to many more customers

I mean I'd say $5 a month would still be reasonable, but 1) that's just me, and 2) I'm not Kabam, so I don't call the shots.

Mathking13

But, as these enhancements were largely asked for by a majority of player, they could have made it less expensive. Maybe 1 or 2 $ per month. That would have been great for everyone. Ok they have to pay the developers and eventually make profit to continue, but i am sure that would be possible at a lower price.

Every one would be happy, Summoner by paying less and Kabam by selling this service to many more customers
Not really. Games like this have to balance the value of cash with the value of gameplay. In oversimplified terms, everything costs a certain amount of time to earn, and a certain amount of money to buy. If something takes ten hours of gameplay to earn and a hundred dollars of cash to buy, the game is implicitly saying that one hour of gameplay is worth ten dollars. But if that thing costs less, like say ten dollars, then the value changes to one hour of gameplay being worth only one dollar. In effect, the cheaper things are, the more actual gameplay gets devalued.

For a game to be able to attract a healthy number of free to play players, those players have to believe that their gameplay is rewarded, and one way to value gameplay being rewarded is to see what the pseudo-cash value of that gameplay is. The cheaper things are, the less value gameplay has, and the less incentive there is for anyone to play the game.

A game doesn't become pay to play when it sells big things for big bucks. A game becomes pay to play when it starts selling everything for very little cash. Because then everyone starts to believe they have to spend that cash, or else they will be left behind by everyone else who will pay it, because it is so cheap. The vast majority of game players don't care if they fall behind the top 1% spenders. They do care if they fall behind 90% of the players, because they think everyone is spending.

I don't know why this is so hard to understand. F2P games do not want everyone spending. They aren't trying to get as many people to spend as possible. They want a lot of people to spend, and no matter how hard they try they won't get more than a small fraction to spend. But it would be a catastrophe if most people spent, if it choked off new free to play players. They'd just become a subscription game, and those tend to do worse than F2P games.

gotta love it when you see someone who expresses what you wanted to say because you weren't sure how to express it. This is an awesome post.
If this was a discussion on a channel in Discord, this post would have immediately been pinned. Let's just say that.

RunamokUSA

It is a $10 per month card that will give you x amount of stuff for x amount of $
It doesn’t get any simpler than that. Let’s look at the $4.99 offer for 735 units.
I am not seeing anyone crying that they think Kabam should be giving us these extra unit’s for free because...well because we been asking for more units and they should not charge us for those. Or today’s offer for a monthly catalyst card, heck they should give us these for free because we deserve it by golly! I did not buy today’s offer because it did not make sense FOR ME.

Why is the $10 offer any different than any other offer?

Why is a $10 Monthly subscription a slap in the face to YOU?
Because for some reason YOU feel that it should be your right to get These items for free because we asked for it?

Why? I haven’t heard anyone claiming that same thing for any other “offer” that comes out.

And guess what, nobody took anything from you, your game does not change from what your experience was today if you decide not to take this offer. Nobody said unless you start paying a monthly subscription you will no longer have access to the game.

Pay it if it makes senses or don’t if it doesn’t, it’s a simple choice People.

LeNoirFaineant

24 pages of comments and apart editions of some comments by a moderator, there are no "official" comment from Kabam.
So it looks like a "let them comment, whatever they say we have already decided"

What do you want them to say? Of course they have already decided. What has been said that ought to make them shut it down? Some people don't like it but others do? Once it goes live and the sky doesn't fall and it turns out the game is the same as it ever was, this will become the non issue that it should have been to begin with.

SkyBlueGaming

Hey guys wouldn’t it be great if we are able do decide when we want to start our Sigil free trial? I don’t have any 3 star shards right now but I want to get some 4 star shards.

LeNoirFaineant

Were you expecting them to say they're not going to offer it anymore?

I mean they arw going to release it. What would expect them to say? Its not a bad deal just not a deal F2P want to see.
But, as these enhancements were largely asked for by a majority of player, they could have made it less expensive. Maybe 1 or 2 $ per month. That would have been great for everyone. Ok they have to pay the developers and eventually make profit to continue, but i am sure that would be possible at a lower price.

Every one would be happy, Summoner by paying less and Kabam by selling this service to many more customers

Since a lot of people want it they should make it really cheap? If you think about that for a few minutes you will see why it doesn't make sense lol. But you're crazy if you think everyone would be happy if it were $1 per month. The difference between FTP and $1 is much larger than the difference between $1 and $10.

ESF

If a Kabam person reads these two questions -- I am not tagging anyone but would certainly be appreciative of any kind of response, and I understand that it may not yield a definitive answer, but I would like to know if it's even possible:

If the Sigil program does well, could it be expanded to where we might see different skins of existing characters or exclusive characters as part of a subscription package?

Because that's what I want. I don't know if it's possible, or if it's even something that would be considered.

But if it's not even something that could ever happen, it would be nice to know. Because I am willing to roll the dice and support a subscription service if it is possible in the future because I believe in putting my money where my mouth is, but I am being honest by saying that the Sigil package as currently structured is less interesting to me if it is likely not ever to expand.

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Demonzfyre

People still drop hundreds if not thousands on FGMC's alone.

Remember that Mcoc was purchased by Netmarble back in 2017.

Future Fight draws alot from what direction Mcoc is heading to

1. Future fight has 12 week calender, that give pretty good rewards, dont forget in mcoc u basically get a free 5* awakening crystal. back then that crystal alone was valued at $100.

2. Also has a VIP system that rewards you the more you spend

3, Future Fight power creep is way more demanding that mcoc, there are things called tier tier 2,3 for character that require alot of end game farming, Sure you can easily get ur favorite marvel characters, but farming to "max" out ur character takes alot of resources, its a #'s game

4. Future Fight has a subcrption for its premium currency, same way as units,
BUT also has a subscription for character, the game uses bios/shards for each character to rank up 1-6 6*
Characters are locked behind a paywal subcription

5. Future Fight RNG type gacha like crystal are things like comicbooks/gear that makes your character alot more powerful and give u %boost

all in all, the subcription doesnt restrict you, from what you are doing now.
You get bonuses if you actuallty spend,
$100 = 1 odin is 3100 units
$100 - for 12months basically give u 3600 units + alot of perks like 4,000 5* shards a week and saving 8,000 5* shards for 2 featured 5* crystal.

Here is a comparison

But...
im more interested in a end game scubcription,

at my current progress, id like to see 6*/T5B subscription,
This isn't future fight tho ...

Both games are owned by Netmarble...

unknown

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unknown

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Demonzfyre

People still drop hundreds if not thousands on FGMC's alone.

Remember that Mcoc was purchased by Netmarble back in 2017.

Future Fight draws alot from what direction Mcoc is heading to

1. Future fight has 12 week calender, that give pretty good rewards, dont forget in mcoc u basically get a free 5* awakening crystal. back then that crystal alone was valued at $100.

2. Also has a VIP system that rewards you the more you spend

3, Future Fight power creep is way more demanding that mcoc, there are things called tier tier 2,3 for character that require alot of end game farming, Sure you can easily get ur favorite marvel characters, but farming to "max" out ur character takes alot of resources, its a #'s game

4. Future Fight has a subcrption for its premium currency, same way as units,
BUT also has a subscription for character, the game uses bios/shards for each character to rank up 1-6 6*
Characters are locked behind a paywal subcription

5. Future Fight RNG type gacha like crystal are things like comicbooks/gear that makes your character alot more powerful and give u %boost

all in all, the subcription doesnt restrict you, from what you are doing now.
You get bonuses if you actuallty spend,
$100 = 1 odin is 3100 units
$100 - for 12months basically give u 3600 units + alot of perks like 4,000 5* shards a week and saving 8,000 5* shards for 2 featured 5* crystal.

Here is a comparison

But...
im more interested in a end game scubcription,

at my current progress, id like to see 6*/T5B subscription,
This isn't future fight tho ...
Both games are owned by Netmarble...
Great go play future fight then.

The games are comparable. The subscription services are also comparable and when you have a company that owns both, it stands to reason there will be similar mechanics in the games. But what both do arent new or original to either game.

And i already play MFF.

Julio_Vega1

Can I pay the subscription with Google Play Cards?