Summoner Sigil - Discussion Thread

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  • mostlyharmlessnmostlyharmlessn Posts: 841 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Lormif said:

    Webby72 said:

    So, what can free 2 play players do with this?

    Nothing. That’s the point. To encourage spending.
    Webby72 said:

    So, what can free 2 play players do with this?

    Nothing. That’s the point. To encourage spending.
    They have to make money somehow to fund the game. Everything can’t be free.
    They make money from the play store and the apple app store before they even make money from their offers. How much they receive is based on number of people logging in and the amount of time. It the concessions they receive. Most of the money made goes towards their profit margin and can be used to work on developing other games.
    Sorry? Can you elaborate on this? The only money they make is from the offers. Apple does not pay them just to have the app there or free downloads or how many people logged in. The people claim this typically base it on a faulty understanding of "revenue per download" or "revenue per user", that revenue part is from their in game sales.
    Why do you think it is important for them to have the daily logins. All access to the app is tracked. Why do you think so many companies are pushing people to download an app. There is a much bigger picture. The are so many companies that produce and mange these apps with no revenue to be gain from the app.
    Most people don't realize the money app makers can make from just from the data collected by using the app.

    Location data, age, in game spending (or lack there of), subsequent searches of game information, ect. All that data is collected and licenses to use that data is sold.

    Data such as players X age are playing from Y Country/providence/State, and "Hey we got X amount of people that are willing to do X for Y" is extremely value-able for anyone doing behavioral analysis, marketing analytics, and customer engagement research.

    Yes the bankroll is made from in game sales for a game like this, but there's plenty of ways games like this monetize the sheer volume of data they collect.
    Apps that want to monetize data like that have to collect it from the users first. Some do, but Kabam doesn't appear to. All they ask for is email address and while they can theoretically datamine some data about you from email if you give them an email connected to other services, they don't get any user information from Apple. If they were collecting things like location data your phone would warn you.

    Both Apple and Google have policies that prohibit app developers from sharing or selling data to third parties except for the explicit purpose of improving the app or for allowed in-app advertising. This is difficult for them to police, but they do kick apps for violating those policies. In particular, if anything Apple has been accused of being too heavy handed with app banning for privacy concerns, not too light handed.
    They are not allowed to "Steal" the data by data mining your phone, this is what gets apps booted from the respective app stores. They are 100% allowed to mine the data which they collect themselves. Location data is typically assessed through GeoIP Data ect.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,957 ★★★★★

    DNA3000 said:

    Lormif said:

    Webby72 said:

    So, what can free 2 play players do with this?

    Nothing. That’s the point. To encourage spending.
    Webby72 said:

    So, what can free 2 play players do with this?

    Nothing. That’s the point. To encourage spending.
    They have to make money somehow to fund the game. Everything can’t be free.
    They make money from the play store and the apple app store before they even make money from their offers. How much they receive is based on number of people logging in and the amount of time. It the concessions they receive. Most of the money made goes towards their profit margin and can be used to work on developing other games.
    Sorry? Can you elaborate on this? The only money they make is from the offers. Apple does not pay them just to have the app there or free downloads or how many people logged in. The people claim this typically base it on a faulty understanding of "revenue per download" or "revenue per user", that revenue part is from their in game sales.
    Why do you think it is important for them to have the daily logins. All access to the app is tracked. Why do you think so many companies are pushing people to download an app. There is a much bigger picture. The are so many companies that produce and mange these apps with no revenue to be gain from the app.
    Most people don't realize the money app makers can make from just from the data collected by using the app.

    Location data, age, in game spending (or lack there of), subsequent searches of game information, ect. All that data is collected and licenses to use that data is sold.

    Data such as players X age are playing from Y Country/providence/State, and "Hey we got X amount of people that are willing to do X for Y" is extremely value-able for anyone doing behavioral analysis, marketing analytics, and customer engagement research.

    Yes the bankroll is made from in game sales for a game like this, but there's plenty of ways games like this monetize the sheer volume of data they collect.
    Apps that want to monetize data like that have to collect it from the users first. Some do, but Kabam doesn't appear to. All they ask for is email address and while they can theoretically datamine some data about you from email if you give them an email connected to other services, they don't get any user information from Apple. If they were collecting things like location data your phone would warn you.

    Both Apple and Google have policies that prohibit app developers from sharing or selling data to third parties except for the explicit purpose of improving the app or for allowed in-app advertising. This is difficult for them to police, but they do kick apps for violating those policies. In particular, if anything Apple has been accused of being too heavy handed with app banning for privacy concerns, not too light handed.
    They are not allowed to "Steal" the data by data mining your phone, this is what gets apps booted from the respective app stores. They are 100% allowed to mine the data which they collect themselves. Location data is typically assessed through GeoIP Data ect.
    No they are not. You will notice you dont get asked for any additional information when you install this game. Geodata is the only thing they can get, which is by IP.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,901 Guardian

    They are not allowed to "Steal" the data by data mining your phone, this is what gets apps booted from the respective app stores. They are 100% allowed to mine the data which they collect themselves. Location data is typically assessed through GeoIP Data ect.

    From the Apple app store guidelines:
    [5.1.1 Data Collection and Storage]
    (viii) Apps that compile personal information from any source that is not directly from the user or without the user’s explicit consent, even public databases, are not permitted on the App Store.
    5.1.2 Data Use and Sharing
    (i) Unless otherwise permitted by law, you may not use, transmit, or share someone’s personal data without first obtaining their permission. You must provide access to information about how and where the data will be used. Data collected from apps may only be shared with third parties to improve the app or serve advertising (in compliance with the Apple Developer Program License Agreement.). Apps that share user data without user consent or otherwise complying with data privacy laws may be removed from sale and may result in your removal from the Apple Developer Program.
    (emphasis mine)

    You can "mine" the data you collect any way you want for your own purposes, but you can't share or sell that data in general. There are apps that do, but when they are discovered and reported they are removed from the app store.

    The most high profile app I can think of that was removed from Apple's app store for violating these policies was Onava. Onava was a VPN that was discovered to be collecting data on the apps and websites that users visited within the VPN tunnels to compile user profiles and to share with, among other entities, Facebook (which bought Onava). This data collected served no useful purpose to improving the app itself, and wasn't being shared for specific user opt-in in-app advertising, so it violated Apple's data collection and sharing policies and was barred from the app store. As far as I know, it never returned.

    Anyone who thinks Apple won't just straight up remove an app for violating its policies should see what they did to Trend Micro recently. Apple isn't afraid of any of its app developers and doesn't even care about its own revenue when it comes to enforcing its privacy policies, because it considers its privacy policies to be part of its brand. The brand is worth more to Apple than all of its app developers combined.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,901 Guardian
    RO53TT1 said:

    Take the monthly $5 deal where u get 735 units over the course of 30 days, this is a brilliant offer, I would say even "free to play players" would purchase that deal

    I don't think you fully understand the concept behind being a free to play player.
  • ESFESF Posts: 923 ★★★
    Bergy25 said:

    How about a battle chip boost for those of us level 60? Even 2x would feel better during those endless hours of grinding. 😀

    I've been hitting Arena hard for the last week, because I need gold. My gosh. I totally hadn't forgotten how excruciating it can be, and my memories weren't wrong
  • PiviotPiviot Posts: 349 ★★
    edited August 10

    Didn’t they remove basically unlimited storage there was outrage then but now seems like you accepted

    This is just another thing ppl will get used to
  • lawrence1977lawrence1977 Posts: 5
    Alot of long time players have quit playing because of the growing greed of kabam
    Its PAY to PLAY now. Its ridiculous and shameful.
  • TrankNickTrankNick Posts: 7
    So as I see all the black ISO market have a 2 weeks refresh time. Since the sigil is a 30-day subscription do we get 3 refreshes or just 2 in one subscription.
  • SunilRaya19SunilRaya19 Posts: 1
    I just subscribed to SIGIL offer.. But i did not get 300 units as promised with the offer .. Please sort it out.. My in game name is Δευκαλίων
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,522 ★★★★★
    edited August 10

    I just subscribed to SIGIL offer.. But i did not get 300 units as promised with the offer .. Please sort it out.. My in game name is Δευκαλίων

    You earn them every week with the Objectives. 75 a week.
  • Jedi_Knight1Jedi_Knight1 Posts: 62
    When the trial is over and all our excess items go back into the stash do they go back to thier original expiry date? I am worried some of my t4cc might disappear?
    It only had a few days left on some of it
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 5,133 ★★★★★
    ESF said:

    Bergy25 said:

    How about a battle chip boost for those of us level 60? Even 2x would feel better during those endless hours of grinding. 😀

    I've been hitting Arena hard for the last week, because I need gold. My gosh. I totally hadn't forgotten how excruciating it can be, and my memories weren't wrong
    I plan to get 6 million in the 6* arena every time for 1k 5* shards and chips. I almost always stop at 3 million or skip it altogether. Arena burns me out so fast. Don't know how people grind for featured champs.
  • TrankNickTrankNick Posts: 7

    When the trial is over and all our excess items go back into the stash do they go back to thier original expiry date? I am worried some of my t4cc might disappear?
    It only had a few days left on some of it

    This has been already addressed in the announcement... inventory will remain intact even after subscription ends, just the capacity will reduce and once you have used the t4cc u won't be able to add more than the downsized inventory capacity.
  • ESFESF Posts: 923 ★★★

    ESF said:

    Bergy25 said:

    How about a battle chip boost for those of us level 60? Even 2x would feel better during those endless hours of grinding. 😀

    I've been hitting Arena hard for the last week, because I need gold. My gosh. I totally hadn't forgotten how excruciating it can be, and my memories weren't wrong
    I plan to get 6 million in the 6* arena every time for 1k 5* shards and chips. I almost always stop at 3 million or skip it altogether. Arena burns me out so fast. Don't know how people grind for featured champs.
    I hear you, brother. Man, do I ever hear you.

    I almost always need gold. I know units are in there too and come at a decent clip if you grind it out.

    But I get to 25, 30 fights and I am like, "Nope. Nope. NOPE. Gonna go play with my kid."

    I don't let anyone down, as a solo player. It slows down my progression sometimes, but I just can't grind Arena like we did back in the day.

    More power to those who do. They deserve all they get

  • Ironcap3Ironcap3 Posts: 1
    edited August 10
    When summoner sigil started, i was conqueror but today i got uncollected
    So can i get access to uncollected summoner sigil solo objectives??
  • crystaldsmithcrystaldsmith Posts: 474 ★★
    This just solidified my justification to join a retirement alliance filled with those who are also F2P and just accept that there's a limit for those who don't spend. I'm tired of being pushed for cavalier and 6*s and "deals" which are not deals at all and now a month "deal"?! Kabam is the EA of mobile. 🤦
  • crystaldsmithcrystaldsmith Posts: 474 ★★
    @Webby72 💯% I've felt the pressure of the growth wall for a while being one who refuses to spend, and also refuses to grind to obtain resources. I don't want to invest that kind of time in a mobile game but intentionally making it so that you can't obtain the same levels is absurd.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 2,584 ★★★★★

    @Webby72 💯% I've felt the pressure of the growth wall for a while being one who refuses to spend, and also refuses to grind to obtain resources. I don't want to invest that kind of time in a mobile game but intentionally making it so that you can't obtain the same levels is absurd.

    Man this is a game that's based around constant progression. You don't want to spend money or time to do it, do you even know what type of game you're playing?
  • crystaldsmithcrystaldsmith Posts: 474 ★★

    So many of these features should be standard in game. Especially the item cap increase.

    "Subject to change" means the more you guys buy into it and increase the demand the more Kabam will raise those monthly rates.

    @Webby72 💯% I've felt the pressure of the growth wall for a while being one who refuses to spend, and also refuses to grind to obtain resources. I don't want to invest that kind of time in a mobile game but intentionally making it so that you can't obtain the same levels is absurd.

    Man this is a game that's based around constant progression. You don't want to spend money or time to do it, do you even know what type of game you're playing?
    I've been playing since day one. Of course is progression based. Aren't all games? The difference is you could rank up up organically without having to spend units. Now you can but you fall too far behind. And it's so repetitive that I guess I don't get that grind demand. Like I can okay Fallout for 500 hrs and get all kinds of different stuff. Here it's minimal changes. It isn't worth spending on for a lot of people but it doesn't mean we don't want to play.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 2,584 ★★★★★

    So many of these features should be standard in game. Especially the item cap increase.

    "Subject to change" means the more you guys buy into it and increase the demand the more Kabam will raise those monthly rates.

    @Webby72 💯% I've felt the pressure of the growth wall for a while being one who refuses to spend, and also refuses to grind to obtain resources. I don't want to invest that kind of time in a mobile game but intentionally making it so that you can't obtain the same levels is absurd.

    Man this is a game that's based around constant progression. You don't want to spend money or time to do it, do you even know what type of game you're playing?
    I've been playing since day one. Of course is progression based. Aren't all games? The difference is you could rank up up organically without having to spend units. Now you can but you fall too far behind. And it's so repetitive that I guess I don't get that grind demand. Like I can okay Fallout for 500 hrs and get all kinds of different stuff. Here it's minimal changes. It isn't worth spending on for a lot of people but it doesn't mean we don't want to play.
    And you can play but to expect to play at a high level whole not spending money or time, is pretty silly.
  • crystaldsmithcrystaldsmith Posts: 474 ★★
    @Worknprogress I never said "high level". Ever. You assumed.

    That's simply why I stopped playing at a platinum war level and just chill. It wasn't worth it to me. It's just the same add recycled up into new looks anyway.

    Even if you do spend and are an end game player at some point it gets old. Imagine playing the same console game for 5 years. It would just get stale. But at least DLC and game changes make more sense to me than spending money to enhance repetitive play. But I'm probably only siding with any half the community. There's probably more than that who are spenders.
  • crystaldsmithcrystaldsmith Posts: 474 ★★
    Don't get me wrong, I would personally say Platinum 3 is "high level" but I was never and have never been an end game player. I wasn't in P3 long and felt that was already more than I wanted, I started casual and prefer this game to remain casual as my preference is console anyway. But unlike other games, it's becoming less skill based and more money based and that's the point I've been trying to make. You can buy your way to the top.
  • Taz0911Taz0911 Posts: 60
    If I bought the summoner sigil will the timers reset in the iso store once the free trial expires?
  • Taz0911Taz0911 Posts: 60
    @Ultra8529 I heard that they go into the over flow
  • Adam_SeleneAdam_Selene Posts: 1
    I would be happier if we had the opportunity to pay for the SS with either $ or a representative number of units. As an f2p player, this would sit well with me as I would then be able to 'work' for the benefits. I don't have any spare money at all but I have a little spare time occasionally.
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