6.2.5 Gwenpool Surging Vengeance

Pretty straightforward here, Act 6.2.5, Gwenpool on path C - she has'Surging Vengeance' node: Uses special attacks in consecutive order from 1 to 3, restarting from the beginning after Special 3'.

Can someone please then explain to me why she immediately launched a Special 3 twice? She hadn't fired a single special, fight was progressing. I pushed her past her special one and two to a full bar of power - I'm playing as Doom, this is beneficial to me, and expecting her to throw a special one or hold on to the power long enough for me to siphon it with my own special one. NOPE, she smacks me in the face with a special three.

So... do they now just ignore their own nodes?

Comments

Eb0ny-O-M4w

It's how the node works and is supposed to work since it's introduction, way back in 2016

Darkness275

It's how the node works and is supposed to work since it's introduction, way back in 2016

"Uses specials in consecutive order from 1 to 3"

Does not mean use special three first.

Edit to add: Before you reply with "She starts with a special three and then follows order, the node says 'from the beginning after special three' I would point out two counters.

The first fight, she launched TWO special threes in a row, both times ignoring all others.

The second time I fought her, she launched a special one and then a special three. Completely skipping over Special two.

Terra

The wording of the node is a bit weird.
I've seen that if you push to a say sp2 she throws that and then she will throw sp3.
She skips the previous special if you push her to a higher bar.

Darkness275

The wording of the node is a bit weird.
I've seen that if you push to a say sp2 she throws that and then she will throw sp3.
She skips the previous special if you push her to a higher bar.

That's illogical and actually goes against the wording of the node. There is no difference between what you just described, and a regular fight. That means the node itself would be pointless.

"Hey, this node means they throw specials in consecutive order, by that we mean they throw the special you have pushed them to!"

So... like in a regular fight if I push someone to a special two, they throw a special two, and if I push them to a special three they throw that? That's ridiculous and completely removes the whole "consecutive" wording.

Consecutive means following continuously in unbroken or logical sequence. Just like ascending order: One, Two, Three. or Descending order: Three, Two, One.

Terra

The wording of the node is a bit weird.
I've seen that if you push to a say sp2 she throws that and then she will throw sp3.
She skips the previous special if you push her to a higher bar.
That's illogical and actually goes against the wording of the node. There is no difference between what you just described, and a regular fight. That means the node itself would be pointless.

"Hey, this node means they throw specials in consecutive order, by that we mean they throw the special you have pushed them to!"

So... like in a regular fight if I push someone to a special two, they throw a special two, and if I push them to a special three they throw that? That's ridiculous and completely removes the whole "consecutive" wording.

Consecutive means following continuously in unbroken or logical sequence. Just like ascending order: One, Two, Three. or Descending order: Three, Two, One.

If a sp2 is the first special thrown, according to the wording of the node, she will then throw sp3 next. It's a simple thing to understand. First special thrown (sp1/2/3) she will then throw the next number depending on first special number thrown.

Darkness275

The wording of the node is a bit weird.
I've seen that if you push to a say sp2 she throws that and then she will throw sp3.
She skips the previous special if you push her to a higher bar.
That's illogical and actually goes against the wording of the node. There is no difference between what you just described, and a regular fight. That means the node itself would be pointless.

"Hey, this node means they throw specials in consecutive order, by that we mean they throw the special you have pushed them to!"

So... like in a regular fight if I push someone to a special two, they throw a special two, and if I push them to a special three they throw that? That's ridiculous and completely removes the whole "consecutive" wording.

Consecutive means following continuously in unbroken or logical sequence. Just like ascending order: One, Two, Three. or Descending order: Three, Two, One.
If a sp2 is the first special thrown, according to the wording of the node, she will then throw sp3 next. It's a simple thing to understand. First special thrown (sp1/2/3) she will then throw the next number depending on first special number thrown.

Except the first time I fought her, she threw a special three twice... both times ignoring specials one and two.

The second time when she did throw a special one, she then completely ignored special two. Despite me leaving her there for a while, and threw a special three as soon as able.

The third time I fought her, again started the fight with a special three.

There is no logical sequence in that - there is no consecutive order. If she throws the highest special she has available, she is fighting as a normal person would without the node. It's a simple thing to understand.

Lvernon15

If you push them over the sp1 or 2 they will use the special they have, you still have to bait it, or just means she won’t use the sp1 until she’s used the 2 and 3 if that makes sense

Darkness275

If you push them over the sp1 or 2 they will use the special they have, you still have to bait it, or just means she won’t use the sp1 until she’s used the 2 and 3 if that makes sense

So, absolutely no difference between having the node and not having the node.

Lvernon15

If you push them over the sp1 or 2 they will use the special they have, you still have to bait it, or just means she won’t use the sp1 until she’s used the 2 and 3 if that makes sense
So, absolutely no difference between having the node and not having the node.

No, if she’s used the s1 she won’t use it again until the s3 has been used, same goes for the l2, it stops them using specials if they’ve been used already before a special 3, but doesn’t stop them using the sp3 immediately

Darkness275

If you push them over the sp1 or 2 they will use the special they have, you still have to bait it, or just means she won’t use the sp1 until she’s used the 2 and 3 if that makes sense
So, absolutely no difference between having the node and not having the node.
No, if she’s used the s1 she won’t use it again until the s3 has been used, same goes for the l2, it stops them using specials if they’ve been used already before a special 3, but doesn’t stop them using the sp3 immediately

No, I follow what you're saying - that would indeed be a logical order.
That is not what happened. The very first time I fought her she threw two special threes in a row.
With what you're suggesting, even if she throws the first special three to begin the fight, she should not throw another one without then throwing a special one and then two.

What happened when I fought her had absolutely no consecutive order. I understand consecutive does not mean ascending nor does it mean descending... and I acknowledge that I was expecting ascending order. BUT consecutive means following continuously in logical or sequential order.

3 - 3
1 - 3
3

Those are three fights. Each time she started with a different special and then the next special she threw was not the next sequential number. The node dictates: consecutive order from 1 to 3, restarting from the beginning after Special 3.

So even if that means she starts with special three and then goes to the beginning of the order - both fights one and two show clear examples of that not happening. Two special threes in a row and then starts with special one. If she's throwing the highest special she has available, that's a normal fight. If she's skipping specials and not baiting when she has them available, waiting for a higher special, that's a normal fight. If she's throwing the same special in a row, that's a normal fight - and NONE of these are consecutive or sequential.

I've already submitted a ticket and am speaking with someone from Kabam support regarding this (amazingly prompt reply btw, great job) - I'm not here because I think the forum will help, I'm here warning that this could be an issue and that people attempting this fight should be aware that Gwenpool does not currently seem to obey the rules of this node.

Eb0ny-O-M4w

Like I mentioned earlier, is how the node is intended to work.
The description of it could be updated, but that's it. It won't change how it is supposed to work

Lvernon15

If you push them over the sp1 or 2 they will use the special they have, you still have to bait it, or just means she won’t use the sp1 until she’s used the 2 and 3 if that makes sense
So, absolutely no difference between having the node and not having the node.

If you push them over the sp1 or 2 they will use the special they have, you still have to bait it, or just means she won’t use the sp1 until she’s used the 2 and 3 if that makes sense
So, absolutely no difference between having the node and not having the node.
No, if she’s used the s1 she won’t use it again until the s3 has been used, same goes for the l2, it stops them using specials if they’ve been used already before a special 3, but doesn’t stop them using the sp3 immediately
No, I follow what you're saying - that would indeed be a logical order.
That is not what happened. The very first time I fought her she threw two special threes in a row.
With what you're suggesting, even if she throws the first special three to begin the fight, she should not throw another one without then throwing a special one and then two.

What happened when I fought her had absolutely no consecutive order. I understand consecutive does not mean ascending nor does it mean descending... and I acknowledge that I was expecting ascending order. BUT consecutive means following continuously in logical or sequential order.

3 - 3
1 - 3
3

Those are three fights. Each time she started with a different special and then the next special she threw was not the next sequential number. The node dictates: consecutive order from 1 to 3, restarting from the beginning after Special 3.

So even if that means she starts with special three and then goes to the beginning of the order - both fights one and two show clear examples of that not happening. Two special threes in a row and then starts with special one. If she's throwing the highest special she has available, that's a normal fight. If she's skipping specials and not baiting when she has them available, waiting for a higher special, that's a normal fight. If she's throwing the same special in a row, that's a normal fight - and NONE of these are consecutive or sequential.

I've already submitted a ticket and am speaking with someone from Kabam support regarding this (amazingly prompt reply btw, great job) - I'm not here because I think the forum will help, I'm here warning that this could be an issue and that people attempting this fight should be aware that Gwenpool does not currently seem to obey the rules of this node.

They will use a special 3 if you push them to it because they can’t use anything else, it’s the way it works and always has done, it doesn’t make a great deal of sense tbh but it’s how it works

Darkness275

They will use a special 3 if you push them to it because they can’t use anything else, it’s the way it works and always has done, it doesn’t make a great deal of sense tbh but it’s how it works

Of course they can - there are actually several examples of the AI using a lower level special despite the fact that they have two or three bars, and I'm not even talking about fights like ROL where special 3 is disabled. The AI can select which special they use.

Patchie93

They will use a special 3 if you push them to it because they can’t use anything else, it’s the way it works and always has done, it doesn’t make a great deal of sense tbh but it’s how it works
Of course they can - there are actually several examples of the AI using a lower level special despite the fact that they have two or three bars, and I'm not even talking about fights like ROL where special 3 is disabled. The AI can select which special they use.

Show me one video of this happening.
The only time the AI can use a different special then the bar they are at is if they can't use sp3.

unknown

This content has been removed.

Darkness275

The comment I replied to was factually wrong in any and all contexts. No AI can have 2 bars and “select” to launch an SP1. No AI can have 3 bars of power and “select” to launch an SP1, If SP3 is disabled then it will launch an SP2.... shall I go on?

Editing: This was written poorly, doing better to explain my meaning.

AI can and absolutely have launched a special one while they have two full bars of power if a node or something else inhibits it - just like in realm of legends they launch a special two instead of a three. Because it's disabled Realm of Legends causes the AI to never throw a special three. Story missions between Act 1 and 4 other examples of this. All other story missions have a specific node which dictates that special 3 is activated. This is done to help players progress and learn tactics without having to worry about special three.

All or Nothing nodes dictate that they are more likely to hold their power until they have a special three. But the wording does not dictate absolution - it says 'may' which allows them to throw a special one or two, though it's less likely.

Other nodes like this are ones which suggest they have an affinity for a certain special.

I point these out because it shows the game can/has utilized methods of prioritizing or limiting specials.

When the node itself dictates that an AI will throw specials in consecutive order starting with special one - that is not saying "this may occur, but it might not." because if that's the case, it's no different than a regular fight. The wording is not 'MAY' throw a special in consecutive order. The node dictates that they must/will throw in sequential order.

What occurred in all three of the examples provided was not, in any way, consecutive order. There's absolutely no way you can suggest that it was, which means the node itself is not working as described. That's the context of the conversation and my commentary... shall I go on?

Player_Slasher

The comment I replied to was factually wrong in any and all contexts. No AI can have 2 bars and “select” to launch an SP1. No AI can have 3 bars of power and “select” to launch an SP1, If SP3 is disabled then it will launch an SP2.... shall I go on?
Editing: This was written poorly, doing better to explain my meaning.

AI can and absolutely have launched a special one while they have two full bars of power if a node or something else inhibits it - just like in realm of legends they launch a special two instead of a three. Because it's disabled Realm of Legends causes the AI to never throw a special three. Story missions between Act 1 and 4 other examples of this. All other story missions have a specific node which dictates that special 3 is activated. This is done to help players progress and learn tactics without having to worry about special three.

All or Nothing nodes dictate that they are more likely to hold their power until they have a special three. But the wording does not dictate absolution - it says 'may' which allows them to throw a special one or two, though it's less likely.

Other nodes like this are ones which suggest they have an affinity for a certain special.

I point these out because it shows the game can/has utilized methods of prioritizing or limiting specials.

When the node itself dictates that an AI will throw specials in consecutive order starting with special one - that is not saying "this may occur, but it might not." because if that's the case, it's no different than a regular fight. The wording is not 'MAY' throw a special in consecutive order. The node dictates that they must/will throw in sequential order.

What occurred in all three of the examples provided was not, in any way, consecutive order. There's absolutely no way you can suggest that it was, which means the node itself is not working as described. That's the context of the conversation and my commentary... shall I go on?

An AI has absolutely no way to launch a sp1 when they have 2 bars. I'm pretty sure no nodes or mechanics in-game do that. With this surging vengeance node, the way this works is they launch sp1, then sp2, then sp3, then sp1 again, but when you push them to their sp3 they will have no other choice but to use the sp3, since they cannot activate the other specials.
It might not be worded correctly but is definitely working as intended.

Darkness275

An AI has absolutely no way to launch a sp1 when they have 2 bars. I'm pretty sure no nodes or mechanics in-game do that. With this surging vengeance node, the way this works is they launch sp1, then sp2, then sp3, then sp1 again, but when you push them to their sp3 they will have no other choice but to use the sp3, since they cannot activate the other specials.
It might not be worded correctly but is definitely working as intended.

It absolutely should be re-worded then, because the wording seems to suggest that the AI MUST throw specials in consecutive order starting from special one, which led me to believe that there were game mechanics inhibiting the AI from throwing a special out of said order.

Thanks, sorry if I frustrated people, I myself was pretty frustrated and not articulating my argument as well as I wanted to.