general thread to comment on rebalances [Merged Threads]

Not sure if i'm blind or not but didn't see a link to comment just the individual champ rebalances. Was wondering if there was 1 combined for discussion purposes.

Comments

Kabam Miike

This can be it. Just remember to keep things on topic, because I would welcome a healthy conversation on how you guys feel we should handle rebalances going forward.

If the answer is "don't do it", I'm cancelling every Buff coming

Zuko_ILC

I'm starting to read through the rebalances now, I'm sure you understand people love their characters so any changes can cause them to panic especially when spending real world dollars. I'll save my judgements for after testing. I did spend quite a lot on Namor and Cull so I really don't like rebalancing but with that said I'm trying to keep an open mind on any changes.

Terra

"Don't do it"
Seriously though, I've skimmed through them.
HT is good, no complaints there. 9/10
Annihalus needs better fury potency and longer effects.
Some good stuff in his rebalance though. 7/10
Namor I'm a bit iffy on. I understand why, but come on? His Regen was never "strong" it was just about enough to negate recoil. Much more powerful Regen champs out there. 6/10.
Cull. Needs better block prof and tune his damage down like the rebalance thread about him said and he'd br good. 7/10 atm.
Maw. No real attacker material improving. Only defense wise if the balance thread on him is to be believed. 4/10.
Yet again, can't say for sure on most of them until hands on approach.

Nojokejaym

The balances seem all fine to me

solmyrair

Where to find them?

awesomesauce

Overall, I think a lot of the changes are welcome. Though I wouldnt have minded some sort of boost or benefit to IW, even if it was a synergy buff.

My thoughts on the rest will be better determined when I get a chance to play the champs with the changes. Overall I do like all the data points provided, especially the graphs and information to show a comparison in different areas and scenarios. I think it goes to show I haven't been using Namor properly!!! lol But in all seriousness, it's good to see where champs compare in different areas, and the datapoints have been obviously carefully monitored and put out there with full transparency. I can appreciate and respect that.

I think my only pre-testing complaint is lowering Namor's regen. In most fights running suicides the 6% doesnt normally even cover the 5% you lose from recoil, unless you are borderline near death yourself.

Crimson8399

A good way to handle rebalance going forward is quite simple. There are no champs who can not be changed later which is fine but let's say if a new champ comes out and people rank them up for prestige, damage, utility or whatever after the evaluation period if changes are made people can have the option to rank them down and get resources used kinda like we are now.

Tehsigzorz

I dont think I would be using annihilius outside AW defence even with this buff and have no idea how maw works so cant really comment on that. Cull will stay in the same spot for me(not worth the ramp up) and human torch gets a great buff. Dont really care much about namor since I dont have him but I dont see many selling him if he was already at rank 5

DNA3000

@Kabam Miike some of the rebalancing data segregates champion performance by player "skill." By what criteria is Kabam determining the skill of the player? Is it roster progress, content progress, or some other performance metric (like their relative performance when using certain benchmark champions)?

Neotwism

I don't understand why some champs warrant getting rank down materials and others don't. If we spent crystals and resources on these champs we should get the same option. As Cull/Namor are receiving. Is the difference enough ppl just haven't complained? That may be because ppl we're mad about all the champs but only focussed on the top two. It just doesn't seem right I can't get resources back for Maw or Invisible Woman because ppl didn't complain enough. Just using those two as examples.

Lvernon15

Annihilus deserves more, this change will just take him from a near useless champ to a borderline ok champ, still will see close to 0 offensive use I think

Longshot_33

Following the info released what are you guys all doing with your namors?

I think HT changes are good. Just needs that sig ability buff.

Inv woman needed a buff for sure.

Annihilus still won’t be touched. He needs another look

Cull. I never used him anyway but I think that block prof will always be a pain.

Ebony I would like to play as can imagine what it will do for him at this stage

DNA3000

@Kabam Miike another question regarding the data across multiple champions. This is the Act 6 data posted for Invisible Woman DPS in her thread; I've cut out the "top 10" section and highlighted where Ronin is (according to the legend he is the "diamond"):

Here's the Cull Obsidian Act 6 DPS data, and I've once again pointed out Ronin, who is supposed to be the "star" in this graph:

These two graphs purport to show the same thing, at least according to the descriptions: average DPS of various champions in Act 6, when used by the "top 10%" of players. And yet Ronin apparently shows up in two radically different places: about 6700 DPS in the Invisible Woman data and closer to 4700 DPS in the Cull Obsidian data. Is there an error in the graphs or am I somehow misinterpreting what the graphs are supposed to be showing?

Shrimkins

Couple of things:

1. It looks like you guys had some intern make the graphs. It wouldn't be hard to make better looking stuff that is easier to read.
2. You even admit in the maw thread:

Even though he’s built as a Defensive champion, no champion should fall below our baseline and be “practically useless”....These include Abomination, Agent Venom, Cyclops, Daredevil, Karnak, Hulkbuster, Howard the Duck, Groot, Dormammu, and Drax.

There are FAR more champs than the few listed here that fall under the "practically useless" catagory. Fixing those champs should be #1 priority. Who cares about Namor's small adjustment to his regen while half the champs in the game are worthless?

TwmR

I don't understand why some champs warrant getting rank down materials and others don't. If we spent crystals and resources on these champs we should get the same option. As Cull/Namor are receiving. Is the difference enough ppl just haven't complained? That may be because ppl we're mad about all the champs but only focussed on the top two. It just doesn't seem right I can't get resources back for Maw or Invisible Woman because ppl didn't complain enough. Just using those two as examples.

Maw is being improved and invisible woman is not being changed, why would they give out resources back for improving champs?

RogerRabs

Also won't nerfing some of the "OP" champs while leaving the others only increase the reliance people have on the unchanged "OP" champs?

unknown

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Lucasjones_98

I was just gonna ask, cause I'm a bit confused. A) cna you can only sell Cull if he's awakened? And

if you sell them what do you get back?

Lucasjones_98

B )*

Mauled

My 2c.

On the whole I quite like the balance changes.

Namor
The Namor change doesn’t change a huge amount, I didn’t rank him up for regen, I ranked him up for Korg and Thorns. The extra bleed % should make him a little bit more viable in shorter fights as I often find his Imperius Rex close to pointless in anything less than 6.3 as after sp3 #2 they’re usually pretty much destroyed anyway. Also for his best match up (IMO), Korg (though I prefer Ghost for this) he has not been ‘nerfed’ in the slightest as he’s a bleed immune anyway.

Invisible Woman
A little bit disappointing, would have liked Fantastic synergy to be increased to allow for 100% parries. At 6.2+ a missed parry/blocked hit is pretty much game over anyway even for IW with her insurance policy. Alternatively reduce the ramp up to 20 dex or something.

Human Torch
Excellent. Non-optimal matchups used to suck, now they won’t. My only alteration would have been to allow his signature ability to allow him to retain his heat by a % point scaling with his sig level up to say 30% which in real time would only be an extra second, making the ability more than just a refresh of his prefight.

Ebony Maw
Would have liked to see some real damage numbers added to his base abilities rather than just his degen and ramp up. I guess we can see how it looks in the next month or so.

I have no experience with Analhious to comment either way tbh (or ability to spell).

Cull Obsidian
Not sure how to take this. Will take some testing. I can see what they’re saying - a shorter initial fight is going to mean you take less damage while he’s vulnerable before hitting his stupid damage phase which let’s be fair, is insane if you can get him there. I would have liked to see him get better block proficiency though as it’s currently absolutely shocking and he’s a champion that relies on heavy attacks for his ramp up. This requires parries or blocks to get the best out of him, or prematurely holding block and hoping that the AI is aggressive enough to immediately go for the heavy.

So unless his initial ramp up fight is significantly better then the way I see it he’s highly likely to still be unviable for deeper content without potions.

If you @Kabam Miike don't wish to up his block proficiency, how about an additional way to inflict an armour break that’s skill based so in the right hands he’s still a menace in 6.3. An intercept = a stackable armour break. There’s precedence in this - essentially it’s one of Proxima’s missions.

unknown

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ESF

Following the info released what are you guys all doing with your namors?

I think HT changes are good. Just needs that sig ability buff.

Inv woman needed a buff for sure.

Annihilus still won’t be touched. He needs another look

Cull. I never used him anyway but I think that block prof will always be a pain.

Ebony I would like to play as can imagine what it will do for him at this stage

My Namor is going to 5/65. That rebalancing is fine in my book. Others might disagree, but I understand what they did and why they did it. It's not gonna crush the character

Octoberstack

Following the info released what are you guys all doing with your namors?

I think HT changes are good. Just needs that sig ability buff.

Inv woman needed a buff for sure.

Annihilus still won’t be touched. He needs another look

Cull. I never used him anyway but I think that block prof will always be a pain.

Ebony I would like to play as can imagine what it will do for him at this stage
My Namor is going to 5/65. That rebalancing is fine in my book. Others might disagree, but I understand what they did and why they did it. It's not gonna crush the character

Gonna +1 this.

My Namor has been 5/65 sig200 for a month or so now, and since then has gotten me through a good chunk of content with significantly fewer units spent (namely several paths in 6.1-6.2 and a unitless V2 exploration). In my eyes, he’s accomplished the purpose for which I ranked him, and I’d made my peace with the fact that he’d be tuned down.

But it looks like his rebalancing is fairer than I’d expected. I’m not too fussed about the regen decrease, as my main source of regen for Namor came from max WP + suicides while attacking. His increased ramp up time is something I’ll have to see for myself once the update goes live, but on paper it doesn’t seem too drastic a change at all. Pleasantly surprised.

Oliverbambino

@Kabam Miike if we sell a star champion will we get the shards back?

lowlevelplayer

I'm still not gonna play ebony BC his playstyle kinda sucks, Namor seems OKish but his regen wasn't that great in the first place, On cull, I would have loved some block proficiency but seems ok i guess

Beatlerao

Will We be getting rank up materials back or rank up gems back if we use the 4-5 gem to rank cull?

Worknprogress

Dont think the annihilus change will make much difference. His reasoning for not being a better attack damage dealer was length of stifles not length of fury. You cant play aggressively enough outside RoL to keep a large amount of stifles up to convert with the sp2. A stifle duration increase would have been far more beneficial.

Justin2524

So who do you get back when we SELL Cull back to Kabam?

ESF

Can we also talk about something that has directly led to how these characters, all characters, are tuned?

The classification as defenders for Alliance War.

There are things I love about this game.

That is one I hate.

I don't know what the numbers are, so I will ask: Can we find out how many/what percentage of people actually play Alliance War vs. those who don't?

I could not care less about a character being a good defender. I am a solo player. A character being good on defense means absolutely nothing to me.

To me, my opinion, no character's ability to attack and clear content should EVER be negatively linked to a single game mode.

Saying that Ebony Maw was never meant to be a great attacker...what does that even mean? How did that ever become a narrative that lasted?

I know that every character can't be Aegon. I don't want every character to hit harder than everyone else upon release.

But I truly hope we can move away from this defender designation and move to something more standards-based, like DPS/block proficiency minimums across the board for all characters

GroundedWisdom

So who do you get back when we SELL Cull back to Kabam?

Whatever you put into him.