Iron Fist of Disappointment

Iron fist, while not as genuinely awesome as most marvel characters, is even more disappointing in this game. I suggest a very simple change, that won't make the character ridiculous, but will allow those who would pick him as their favourite, some sort or way to utilize his underwhelming presence.

Let him charge his chi fist in his heavy attack.

Maybe, for each second charged it adds 20% attack only to the immediate attack when you let go and he goes for the heavy hit.

If he is hit while charging, he loses the charge. If he releases and hits nothing, he loses the charge.

If he hits a blocking opponent when charged, it ignores the block completely.

Comments

Dexman1349

Sounds like an adaptation of Quake's heavy charge. As you hold your heavy, you stack fury (chi). Each charge lasts 3-5 seconds. It would be a good way to fix his 12.0 armor break nerf...

Captain_Maim

Sort of, @Dexman1349 except unlike quake or Mordo, the charges don't last a set time period but only last for that one connected hit. He would be a high risk high reward character you'd have to develop a skill set to play.

From the animation side his fist could glow brighter and brighter as he charged it

Captain_Maim

Any additional thoughts?

IAmNotUrMom

I still think he'd be close to the bottom of the barrel for mystics. So many better mystics already and it is a class that is skewed already against the other classes.

Captain_Maim

True @IAmNotUrMom, but I'm not looking to make him a top teir champion, as, let's face it, he's a bit of a **** to begin with. I'm just trying to give him an ounce of utility so if someone really really likes him (for some reason) they could master how to use him and actually take him into harder content.

IAmNotUrMom

Captain_Maim wrote: »

True @IAmNotUrMom, but I'm not looking to make him a top teir champion, as, let's face it, he's a bit of a **** to begin with. I'm just trying to give him an ounce of utility so if someone really really likes him (for some reason) they could master how to use him and actually take him into harder content.

He was better pre-nerf. He could clear master fairly easily with proper skill.

Dexman1349

The problem there is that I don't necessarily charge Quake's heavy with the intention of actually hitting with it. I do it for the aftershock charges to be used later. Connecting with the heavy is just a bonus.

All of the other champions that have some sort of "charging" system (Gambit, Quake, Mordo, Nebula) all develop charges with one action with the intent of using it through another action. Some build it through holding a block to then activate it through a parry (nebula) or heavy (Gambit), while others build through the heavy (Quake).

The issue with charging through a heavy is that you are effectively defenseless while charging (hence the high risk/reward element). As such, I think the reward needs to be better than simply a single hit.

Captain_Maim

Agreed @IAmNotUrMom, but regardless, I think this is a simple change that wouldn't require them to undo the nerf, and wouldn't add another crazy mystic champion to the God tier, but just make him not completely unusable.

Captain_Maim

Dexman1349 wrote: »

The problem there is that I don't necessarily charge Quake's heavy with the intention of actually hitting with it. I do it for the aftershock charges to be used later. Connecting with the heavy is just a bonus.

All of the other champions that have some sort of "charging" system (Gambit, Quake, Mordo, Nebula) all develop charges with one action with the intent of using it through another action. Some build it through holding a block to then activate it through a parry (nebula) or heavy (Gambit), while others build through the heavy (Quake).

The issue with charging through a heavy is that you are effectively defenseless while charging (hence the high risk/reward element). As such, I think the reward needs to be better than simply a single hit.

That's my point exactly tho @Dexman1349. It would be a different type of character (a type I think they should extend to others). Having such a high risk/reward character gives players a chance to "master" their favourite and if they do, they'd wreak havoc with them. Think about it? What's iron fists base attack? 800 at 4/40? If you held charge for 5 seconds and then connected that's 1600 on the hit. Maybe add a garaunteed critical hit to it? I don't know. It could be tweaked for a better reward, but if you knew you could hit that hard, you'd wanna get good at the process.

Dexman1349

When you need to charge it to 1600, do you really think the AI at that level will let you stay there for 5 seconds? Sure, you can charge all day when you're going through arenas or Normal quest levels (when fights are over in under 15 normal hits), but when you're in Master mode (when you need to hit hard) the AI is on you within one or two seconds and you'd never be able to utilize it. That's why I think it would be better to have something that you could stack and use for a short time.

Captain_Maim

You'd be able to @Dexman1349. Just takes a heavy hit, followed by charging heavy hit. Utilize the knock back animation and the charge forward to your advantage. It's how you get mordo's fury up to 10 stacks. Difficult. But if timed right, brilliant. (if it's not exactly 5 seconds, adjust my timing on this to match mordo's 10 stacks to 5 charge cycles)

winterthur

I am grinding Iron Fist. Certainly welcome any improvement/(s) on this character.

I don't want him to be another defender diversity point.

unknown

This content has been removed.

Danbambam

Iron Fist got badly affected by the diminishing returns and nothing has been done about it. I haven't seen an increase on the damage dealt after his armor breaks stack beyond 5.

Jh_Dez

Dexman1349 wrote: »

Sounds like an adaptation of Quake's heavy charge. As you hold your heavy, you stack fury (chi). Each charge lasts 3-5 seconds. It would be a good way to fix his 12.0 armor break nerf...

Thats kamala not quake

Magrailothos

Captain_Maim wrote: »

Iron fist, while not as genuinely awesome as most marvel characters, is even more disappointing in this game. I suggest a very simple change, that won't make the character ridiculous, but will allow those who would pick him as their favourite, some sort or way to utilize his underwhelming presence.

Let him charge his chi fist in his heavy attack.

Maybe, for each second charged it adds 20% attack only to the immediate attack when you let go and he goes for the heavy hit.

If he is hit while charging, he loses the charge. If he releases and hits nothing, he loses the charge.

If he hits a blocking opponent when charged, it ignores the block completely.

Thing is, doing something like this should take very little effort on Kabam's part. The animation is already coded and used for Mordo's heavy. On the other hand, IF should have a different effect than Mordo's, and already hits fairly hard; so maybe he should gain one of the following effects for 1-5 seconds (proportionate to charging time):
1 - Block penetration (as if the opponent was incinerated).
2 - Every attack nullifies as the Heavy usually does.
3 - Every attack has 33 % chance to stun for 2.5 seconds.
4 - Every attack has a 50% chance to concuss for 5 seconds.

Alternately, if there was an effort to really improve IF, it would be to take into account his supposedly amazing fighting skills and give him:
A - A low evade chance, maybe 3%.
B - A low auto-block chance, like Medusa.
C - A chance to perfect block; maybe 25-30%.
C - IF shrugs off all debuffs after charging his heavy for 1.5 seconds.

Sadly, this is just the latest in a long line of threads about Iron Fist post-Diminishing returns. If there was any appetite at Kabam to improve him (and his inexplicable zero armour rating), it would have happened by now. But we can dream...

Chirps

I'd be fine with this or a system like Karnak where it builds over time. Building over time sounds more his style in my opinion though.

DrZola

One of my issues is that Iron Fist is classified as mystic (rightfully, in my opinion) but has very little in the way of mystic capabilities in game. He’s not unstoppable, can’t organically power gain, doesn’t deal passive dimensional damage, doesn’t regen, doesn’t throw up a lot of buffs, doesn’t eliminate a lot of buffs, etc. I’m not suggesting he ought to have any of those things, but the sole thing that makes him mystic and not just Skill is his ability to harness his “chi” powers.

Any change that embraces that (and perhaps pays homage to his legendary fighting skills) is fine in my book.

The odd thing is that pre-WP nerf, he was problematic because all those armor break fed the WP monster. For a while pre-12.0, he became a potent offensive force. Now with flat values and diminishing returns from stacked buffs, he’s back to being mediocre again.

Dr. Zola