Jabari Panther cleansing Apocalypse debuffs.

Primis00

Am i missing something? Pretty sure debuffs on Apocalypse are immune against being removed, so why is it happening?

Primis00

Batman_SinsOfAFather said:

Apocs debuffs can be removed. They just have reduced purify abiltiy accuracy

It reduces it by 100% and she doesnt have a node that increases accuracy so unless its an ability in her kit i dont know why it happens

becauseicant

Any word on this? Cleanse specifically says it purifies the debuff, which apoc should reduce to 0% and thus prevent it from triggering.

magnus_xix

Cleanse works in the same way that stagger does. Angela who can reduce nullify ability by over 100% is still susceptible to her buffs being removed by a stagger. Apoc who reduces purify ability accuracy can still have his debuffs removed by a cleanse.

Amneties

When I have four charges on apocalypse, the stun from using a light attack into block sticks, but the one from parry does not, which seems weird to me.

Kabam Zibiit

magnus_xix said:

Cleanse works in the same way that stagger does. Angela who can reduce nullify ability by over 100% is still susceptible to her buffs being removed by a stagger. Apoc who reduces purify ability accuracy can still have his debuffs removed by a cleanse.

Hey there, just wanted to shed some light on things and let you all know that the above explanation is correct and that Cleanse and Stagger work in much the same way. You can think of the Purify as existing inside of the Cleanse Passive Effect; to stop the Purify, you'll need to stop the Cleanse, similar to how you need to stop a Stagger to prevent its Nullify.

becauseicant

Well then consider removing "purify" in the description because it leads to this exact situation of confusion. Also doesn't this go directly against your design philosophy of introducing an ability and then giving players champions that counter them? The skill class is known for purifying debuffs and just recently got a direct counter in Apocalypse but now you've already made a skill champion who purifies except it's under a new name so it can't be countered.

This is getting similar to the whole Blade fiasco with his AA reduction, champions being immune to AA reduction, but then his AA reduction ignoring their immunity to AA reduction. It's not a good look.

GroundedWisdom

becauseicant said:

Well then consider removing "purify" in the description because it leads to this exact situation of confusion. Also doesn't this go directly against your design philosophy of introducing an ability and then giving players champions that counter them? The skill class is known for purifying debuffs and just recently got a direct counter in Apocalypse but now you've already made a skill champion who purifies except it's under a new name so it can't be countered.

This is getting similar to the whole Blade fiasco with his AA reduction, champions being immune to AA reduction, but then his AA reduction ignoring their immunity to AA reduction. It's not a good look.

I'm unaware of such a design philosophy. The game has been built on some Champions being able to counter others.

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becauseicant

GroundedWisdom said:

I'm unaware of such a design philosophy. The game has been built on some Champions being able to counter others.

They've mentioned it many times over the years, one of their core design loops is to introduce a champion with a problem ability and then introduce champ(s) that counter that ability afterwards. A classic example is Iceman with his coldsnap ability which was then countered by new champs who were immune to coldsnap.

In this case the problem for quite a while has been Skill champs with purify abilities and there has been very limited solutions. They introduced Apocalypse (a Mutant) as a direct counter to purify just recently, however soon after they introduce a champion of the Skill class who purifies but can't be countered. It's not a question of champions countering other champions in a cycle, it's the fact that the solution that was introduced is immediately outdated by the very ability they are supposed to counter. Also to clarify when I say "immediately" it has been months between the two champs release dates, but in game terms Apocalypse just became readily available to most players.

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Gamer

Kabam Zibiit said:

magnus_xix said:

Cleanse works in the same way that stagger does. Angela who can reduce nullify ability by over 100% is still susceptible to her buffs being removed by a stagger. Apoc who reduces purify ability accuracy can still have his debuffs removed by a cleanse.

Hey there, just wanted to shed some light on things and let you all know that the above explanation is correct and that Cleanse and Stagger work in much the same way. You can think of the Purify as existing inside of the Cleanse Passive Effect; to stop the Purify, you'll need to stop the Cleanse, similar to how you need to stop a Stagger to prevent its Nullify.

Thence make a book of all the difference of all abilities in the game what do what because this gets out of hand very quickly since since of already pointed out confusing between the lines. Can’t said it enough it getting out of hand this isn’t motivation me to play at all more demotivated because now u got get he ect.

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Voltolos

Fredhorst23 said:

How does one counter cleanse?

Proxima midnight should stop it with her 200% aar. Apart from that, find a champ with unpurifieable debuffs
(I'm pretty sure those dont exist yet, the closest you can get to that is StormX who punishes Stun purifying with Stuns)

Aburaees

Apocalypse:
I have total molecular control and my debuffs can’t be purified!

Jabari Panther:
Hold my beer!

Apocalypse:
You can't do that!

Jabari Panther:
Can too!

Apocalypse:
Cannot, stamped it!

Jabari Panther:
Can too, double stamped it, no erasies!

Apocalypse:
Cannot, triple stamped it, no erasies, touch blue make it true. [puts his hands over his ears and sings]

Jabari Panther:
No! No! You can't triple stamp a double stamp! You can't triple stamp a double stamp, Apocalypse! You can't triple stamp a double stamp!