AW Tactics... Supposed to have re-vamped Untouchables but we re-vamped High Ground...?

LilMaddogHT

According to yesterday's post, we are going to get the re-vamped Untouchables node for Season 29. Entering the first off-season war, we are faced with a re-vamped High Ground tactic? Is this intentional? Isn't the offseason (next 2 weeks?) supposed to be the time to test and get familiarized with the tactic that will be in place for Season 29?

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/280831/alliance-war-season-29

BitterSteel

Yeah I’m sure we hadn’t seen an update for high ground, and now it applies 5 times as quickly when the defender is incinerated, shocked or degenned.

Plus, I thought this meant, as you do OP, that we only had one tactic to select

LilMaddogHT

yeah, it's weird cause we only have Slow Your Roll as the offensive Attack tactic, but making the High Ground apply every 10 seconds and even better (every 2 seconds if you shock, incinerate, or degen) them makes today's map quite interesting...

We were expecting Untouchables. This is a Tier 1 expert map.

KnightZero

Doesn't that sound pretty impossible to fight unless you only intercept? Like HT counters a lot of the high ground defenders in general. If you make the high ground come 4 times as fast, even with 4 charges, you'll be taking 2k damage every hit and there is no way for the player to reduce the charges faster than it comes.

BitterSteel

KnightZero said:

Doesn't that sound pretty impossible to fight unless you only intercept? Like HT counters a lot of the high ground defenders in general. If you make the high ground come 4 times as fast, even with 4 charges, you'll be taking 2k damage every hit and there is no way for the player to reduce the charges faster than it comes.

Yep, you can’t use anyone that incinerates, shocks or degens now. Unless you want a charge every 2 seconds

KnightZero

BitterSteel said:

KnightZero said:

Doesn't that sound pretty impossible to fight unless you only intercept? Like HT counters a lot of the high ground defenders in general. If you make the high ground come 4 times as fast, even with 4 charges, you'll be taking 2k damage every hit and there is no way for the player to reduce the charges faster than it comes.

Yep, you can’t use anyone that incinerates, shocks or degens now. Unless you want a charge every 2 seconds

That just kills the counters to the champ. I don't know about you guys, but for me, it's poor design. Because there is no attack tactic that helps to counter high ground anyways. Killing regular counters to the champs there on top of that is silly because we already have to play the global and the war node.

BitterSteel

KnightZero said:

BitterSteel said:

KnightZero said:

Doesn't that sound pretty impossible to fight unless you only intercept? Like HT counters a lot of the high ground defenders in general. If you make the high ground come 4 times as fast, even with 4 charges, you'll be taking 2k damage every hit and there is no way for the player to reduce the charges faster than it comes.

Yep, you can’t use anyone that incinerates, shocks or degens now. Unless you want a charge every 2 seconds

That just kills the counters to the champ. I don't know about you guys, but for me, it's poor design. Because there is no attack tactic that helps to counter high ground anyways. Killing regular counters to the champs there on top of that is silly because we already have to play the global and the war node.

Torch is a great counter to a lot of high ground champs

Sorcerer
Sym supreme
Nova
IMIW
mags
Prof X
Dr strange
Storm X
Maw
Mags X

KnightZero

Also, honestly speaking, why is it that every update whether it be EQ, AQ or AW is always bugged or has some issue? Leave the parry/dex bugs. That is a separate issue. But it's getting kind of frustrating.

LuisBvv

Where in the description does it say anything about applying a debuff makes high ground trigger 4 times faster

LuisBvv

If true these war changes are atrocious

KnightZero

BitterSteel said:

KnightZero said:

BitterSteel said:

KnightZero said:

Doesn't that sound pretty impossible to fight unless you only intercept? Like HT counters a lot of the high ground defenders in general. If you make the high ground come 4 times as fast, even with 4 charges, you'll be taking 2k damage every hit and there is no way for the player to reduce the charges faster than it comes.

Yep, you can’t use anyone that incinerates, shocks or degens now. Unless you want a charge every 2 seconds

That just kills the counters to the champ. I don't know about you guys, but for me, it's poor design. Because there is no attack tactic that helps to counter high ground anyways. Killing regular counters to the champs there on top of that is silly because we already have to play the global and the war node.

Torch is a great counter to a lot of high ground champs

Sorcerer
Sym supreme
Nova
IMIW
mags
Prof X
Dr strange
Storm X
Maw
Mags X

Exactly. Now he's useless vs them. There is no way you can play unless you only intercept. Can't Doom as well. Elsa already nerfed on boss island, now even here if you wanted to use her.

BitterSteel

LuisBvv said:

Where in the description does it say anything about applying a debuff makes high ground trigger 4 times faster

KnightZero

BitterSteel said:

LuisBvv said:

Where in the description does it say anything about applying a debuff makes high ground trigger 4 times faster

Oh it's higher in T2. 1k damage per block hit. Even more fun. This is literally going to be the go to tactic in T3 and below. Noone will touch the other two lol. Not like they did anyways.
Still, 80% is overkill. Again, just cutting off a champ completely.

LilMaddogHT

KnightZero said:

Exactly. Now he's useless vs them. There is no way you can play unless you only intercept. Can't Doom as well. Elsa already nerfed on boss island, now even here if you wanted to use her.

Torch still works but with PreFight. I can’t imagine the charges he would build up. I just did mixmaster ProfX w/o any issues using PreFight Torch but…. I also had a ProfX on Masochism and I used Thing instead cause it just sounded like it would be a nightmare - 10 seconds per charge is a bit much but then make it 2! 🤮. I was up to 7 charges by the time I killed him with Thing but had to play contactless.

Got a Doom vs Nova on Ebb n Flow intercept later. Should be an interesting test with the shocks

KnightZero

LilMaddogHT said:

KnightZero said:

Exactly. Now he's useless vs them. There is no way you can play unless you only intercept. Can't Doom as well. Elsa already nerfed on boss island, now even here if you wanted to use her.

Torch still works but with PreFight. I can’t imagine the charges he would build up. I just did mixmaster ProfX w/o any issues using PreFight Torch but…. I also had a ProfX on Masochism and I used Thing instead cause it just sounded like it would be a nightmare - 10 seconds per charge is a bit much but then make it 2! 🤮. I was up to 7 charges by the time I killed him with Thing but had to play contactless.

Got a Doom vs Nova on Ebb n Flow intercept later. Should be an interesting test with the shocks

Wasn't it 20 seconds before? Or was that only in the lower bracket? Also, 10 seconds is still manageable in general if you can use the right counter. For example, if you could use Torch there. Like you can keep it down to 3-4 charges I think. But making it 2 when using Torch is literally impossible to use. Forcing a wrong counter which just builds charges and then having to take all that damage if you block just sucks. Especially when dex and parry are bugged.
It's a stupid global imo. Definitely needs to be taken back to what it was.

LilMaddogHT

Yes before it was just every 20 seconds, build a charge. Remove it with a 10 combo. Keeping up with a 10 combo every 10 seconds is like putting Void out there with no downtime. At least when you face void, you have a few extra seconds (depending how many opponents are alive on your team) to remove it w/ combo or with shrug off options. Idk, I haven’t died yet and can adjust but I don’t like how this wasn’t communicated. Where is the updated Untouchables? 😅

KnightZero

LilMaddogHT said:

Yes before it was just every 20 seconds, build a charge. Remove it with a 10 combo. Keeping up with a 10 combo every 10 seconds is like putting Void out there with no downtime. At least when you face void, you have a few extra seconds (depending how many opponents are alive on your team) to remove it w/ combo or with shrug off options. Idk, I haven’t died yet and can adjust but I don’t like how this wasn’t communicated. Where is the updated Untouchables? 😅

Yeah and you can use any champ vs Void unless the node doesn't allow. Here you can't use the better counters because they're killed by the node.
I dislike the 10 combo thing, but it's still slightly manageable. The incinerate/shock thing is definitely bs.
Expecting every player to be able to play contactless basically is dumb af.
As for the communication thing, it's becoming regular now. AQ/AW changes will be bugged and if we notice a change from the norm, there's a good chance it isn't communicated.

Deacon

oh boy and here i was preparing to rally the troops for a new season smh

BitterSteel

KnightZero said:

BitterSteel said:

KnightZero said:

BitterSteel said:

KnightZero said:

Doesn't that sound pretty impossible to fight unless you only intercept? Like HT counters a lot of the high ground defenders in general. If you make the high ground come 4 times as fast, even with 4 charges, you'll be taking 2k damage every hit and there is no way for the player to reduce the charges faster than it comes.

Yep, you can’t use anyone that incinerates, shocks or degens now. Unless you want a charge every 2 seconds

That just kills the counters to the champ. I don't know about you guys, but for me, it's poor design. Because there is no attack tactic that helps to counter high ground anyways. Killing regular counters to the champs there on top of that is silly because we already have to play the global and the war node.

Torch is a great counter to a lot of high ground champs

Sorcerer
Sym supreme
Nova
IMIW
mags
Prof X
Dr strange
Storm X
Maw
Mags X

Exactly. Now he's useless vs them. There is no way you can play unless you only intercept. Can't Doom as well. Elsa already nerfed on boss island, now even here if you wanted to use her.

I’m just frustrated as a Mr Negative player (I know, I barely mention it). First high ground is annoying for him, but playable, just don’t heavy charge when the timer is about to reset. But then true focus is added on boss island to counter quake and ghost, definitely annoying getting caught in the crossfire. And now high ground is updated not only to have a 50% decrease in duration from 20 to 10 seconds, but applying degen (Negative’s main damage source) causes a 90% decrease! From 20 seconds to 2.

Honestly, I’m just taking this as confirmation that Mr Negative is secretly the no. 1 champion in the game and Kabam are worried he’s too good for AW

Deacon

you'll be pleased to know @BitterSteel that because of your guide, i R2 my Negative and he's now one of my top 10 favorite champs to play with.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

KnightZero

BitterSteel said:

KnightZero said:

BitterSteel said:

KnightZero said:

BitterSteel said:

KnightZero said:

Doesn't that sound pretty impossible to fight unless you only intercept? Like HT counters a lot of the high ground defenders in general. If you make the high ground come 4 times as fast, even with 4 charges, you'll be taking 2k damage every hit and there is no way for the player to reduce the charges faster than it comes.

Yep, you can’t use anyone that incinerates, shocks or degens now. Unless you want a charge every 2 seconds

That just kills the counters to the champ. I don't know about you guys, but for me, it's poor design. Because there is no attack tactic that helps to counter high ground anyways. Killing regular counters to the champs there on top of that is silly because we already have to play the global and the war node.

Torch is a great counter to a lot of high ground champs

Sorcerer
Sym supreme
Nova
IMIW
mags
Prof X
Dr strange
Storm X
Maw
Mags X

Exactly. Now he's useless vs them. There is no way you can play unless you only intercept. Can't Doom as well. Elsa already nerfed on boss island, now even here if you wanted to use her.

I’m just frustrated as a Mr Negative player (I know, I barely mention it). First high ground is annoying for him, but playable, just don’t heavy charge when the timer is about to reset. But then true focus is added on boss island to counter quake and ghost, definitely annoying getting caught in the crossfire. And now high ground is updated not only to have a 50% decrease in duration from 20 to 10 seconds, but applying degen (Negative’s main damage source) causes a 90% decrease! From 20 seconds to 2.

Honestly, I’m just taking this as confirmation that Mr Negative is secretly the no. 1 champion in the game and Kabam are worried he’s too good for AW

I don't get the reason to nerf champs like this. Like there is no attacker bonus for High Ground as well. Every other modifier has always a bonus for attackers except Untouchable which they still don't want to answer because that one is ridiculous.
Secondly, there is no communication or anything done. They have changed the wrong global itself.
Lastly, even if it was being changed, such a drastic change is ridiculous. They could have made it 20-10 if using incinerate or something. This is uncalled for.
AW already needed a complete overhaul. They're just making it worse.
High Ground at 10 seconds definitely will need dexing around in order to play the node. But dex is random nowadays with the bug.
I hate saying stuff like this, but it seems like they really aren't hearing the community in general.

BitterSteel

DeaconVelvet said:

you'll be pleased to know @BitterSteel that because of your guide, i R2 my Negative and he's now one of my top 10 favorite champs to play with.

Very much happy to hear that! Any plans to get him to r3?

Deacon

BitterSteel said:

DeaconVelvet said:

you'll be pleased to know @BitterSteel that because of your guide, i R2 my Negative and he's now one of my top 10 favorite champs to play with.

Very much happy to hear that! Any plans to get him to r3?

yep if you let me borrow a Science T5CC lol

BitterSteel

KnightZero said:

BitterSteel said:

KnightZero said:

BitterSteel said:

KnightZero said:

BitterSteel said:

KnightZero said:

Doesn't that sound pretty impossible to fight unless you only intercept? Like HT counters a lot of the high ground defenders in general. If you make the high ground come 4 times as fast, even with 4 charges, you'll be taking 2k damage every hit and there is no way for the player to reduce the charges faster than it comes.

Yep, you can’t use anyone that incinerates, shocks or degens now. Unless you want a charge every 2 seconds

That just kills the counters to the champ. I don't know about you guys, but for me, it's poor design. Because there is no attack tactic that helps to counter high ground anyways. Killing regular counters to the champs there on top of that is silly because we already have to play the global and the war node.

Torch is a great counter to a lot of high ground champs

Sorcerer
Sym supreme
Nova
IMIW
mags
Prof X
Dr strange
Storm X
Maw
Mags X

Exactly. Now he's useless vs them. There is no way you can play unless you only intercept. Can't Doom as well. Elsa already nerfed on boss island, now even here if you wanted to use her.

I’m just frustrated as a Mr Negative player (I know, I barely mention it). First high ground is annoying for him, but playable, just don’t heavy charge when the timer is about to reset. But then true focus is added on boss island to counter quake and ghost, definitely annoying getting caught in the crossfire. And now high ground is updated not only to have a 50% decrease in duration from 20 to 10 seconds, but applying degen (Negative’s main damage source) causes a 90% decrease! From 20 seconds to 2.

Honestly, I’m just taking this as confirmation that Mr Negative is secretly the no. 1 champion in the game and Kabam are worried he’s too good for AW

I don't get the reason to nerf champs like this. Like there is no attacker bonus for High Ground as well. Every other modifier has always a bonus for attackers except Untouchable which they still don't want to answer because that one is ridiculous.
Secondly, there is no communication or anything done. They have changed the wrong global itself.
Lastly, even if it was being changed, such a drastic change is ridiculous. They could have made it 20-10 if using incinerate or something. This is uncalled for.
AW already needed a complete overhaul. They're just making it worse.
High Ground at 10 seconds definitely will need dexing around in order to play the node. But dex is random nowadays with the bug.
I hate saying stuff like this, but it seems like they really aren't hearing the community in general.

I agree with everything you’re saying except using the word nerf. It’s really not a nerf, just a counter to champs. Whether it is or isn’t too much of a counter is the debate here, but it’s not a nerf.

I hope Kabam do come through on their roadmap claims of redesigning AW from the ground up

Amadeo01

My war attackers are pretty much all screwed by their recent changes. True focus messed with Ghost and Quake. High ground definitely takes out Quake too. And now with the crazy update to high ground, Cable, Omega, G99, Guardian and Doom are all heavily impacted. It's way too much. I agree that if they just changed it so 20 sec goes to 10 if incinerated/shocked/degened, then that's ok, but every 2 sec? Really? That means after 10 sec, they'll have 5 charges, and each blocked hit will deal a burst of 5000 damage.

KnightZero

BitterSteel said:

KnightZero said:

BitterSteel said:

KnightZero said:

BitterSteel said:

KnightZero said:

BitterSteel said:

KnightZero said:

Doesn't that sound pretty impossible to fight unless you only intercept? Like HT counters a lot of the high ground defenders in general. If you make the high ground come 4 times as fast, even with 4 charges, you'll be taking 2k damage every hit and there is no way for the player to reduce the charges faster than it comes.

Yep, you can’t use anyone that incinerates, shocks or degens now. Unless you want a charge every 2 seconds

That just kills the counters to the champ. I don't know about you guys, but for me, it's poor design. Because there is no attack tactic that helps to counter high ground anyways. Killing regular counters to the champs there on top of that is silly because we already have to play the global and the war node.

Torch is a great counter to a lot of high ground champs

Sorcerer
Sym supreme
Nova
IMIW
mags
Prof X
Dr strange
Storm X
Maw
Mags X

Exactly. Now he's useless vs them. There is no way you can play unless you only intercept. Can't Doom as well. Elsa already nerfed on boss island, now even here if you wanted to use her.

I’m just frustrated as a Mr Negative player (I know, I barely mention it). First high ground is annoying for him, but playable, just don’t heavy charge when the timer is about to reset. But then true focus is added on boss island to counter quake and ghost, definitely annoying getting caught in the crossfire. And now high ground is updated not only to have a 50% decrease in duration from 20 to 10 seconds, but applying degen (Negative’s main damage source) causes a 90% decrease! From 20 seconds to 2.

Honestly, I’m just taking this as confirmation that Mr Negative is secretly the no. 1 champion in the game and Kabam are worried he’s too good for AW

I don't get the reason to nerf champs like this. Like there is no attacker bonus for High Ground as well. Every other modifier has always a bonus for attackers except Untouchable which they still don't want to answer because that one is ridiculous.
Secondly, there is no communication or anything done. They have changed the wrong global itself.
Lastly, even if it was being changed, such a drastic change is ridiculous. They could have made it 20-10 if using incinerate or something. This is uncalled for.
AW already needed a complete overhaul. They're just making it worse.
High Ground at 10 seconds definitely will need dexing around in order to play the node. But dex is random nowadays with the bug.
I hate saying stuff like this, but it seems like they really aren't hearing the community in general.

I agree with everything you’re saying except using the word nerf. It’s really not a nerf, just a counter to champs. Whether it is or isn’t too much of a counter is the debate here, but it’s not a nerf.

I hope Kabam do come through on their roadmap claims of redesigning AW from the ground up

I mean technically nerf means to render ineffective. HT has been in this case because other than a very small minority of the player base, I don't think anyone can play contactless. Like you can't even play him as a regular champ vs these nodes. Doom definitely less so, but I think you get my point
Either way, nerf or counter, I still feel that it is too much.

BitterSteel

KnightZero said:

BitterSteel said:

KnightZero said:

BitterSteel said:

KnightZero said:

BitterSteel said:

KnightZero said:

BitterSteel said:

KnightZero said:

Doesn't that sound pretty impossible to fight unless you only intercept? Like HT counters a lot of the high ground defenders in general. If you make the high ground come 4 times as fast, even with 4 charges, you'll be taking 2k damage every hit and there is no way for the player to reduce the charges faster than it comes.

Yep, you can’t use anyone that incinerates, shocks or degens now. Unless you want a charge every 2 seconds

That just kills the counters to the champ. I don't know about you guys, but for me, it's poor design. Because there is no attack tactic that helps to counter high ground anyways. Killing regular counters to the champs there on top of that is silly because we already have to play the global and the war node.

Torch is a great counter to a lot of high ground champs

Sorcerer
Sym supreme
Nova
IMIW
mags
Prof X
Dr strange
Storm X
Maw
Mags X

Exactly. Now he's useless vs them. There is no way you can play unless you only intercept. Can't Doom as well. Elsa already nerfed on boss island, now even here if you wanted to use her.

I’m just frustrated as a Mr Negative player (I know, I barely mention it). First high ground is annoying for him, but playable, just don’t heavy charge when the timer is about to reset. But then true focus is added on boss island to counter quake and ghost, definitely annoying getting caught in the crossfire. And now high ground is updated not only to have a 50% decrease in duration from 20 to 10 seconds, but applying degen (Negative’s main damage source) causes a 90% decrease! From 20 seconds to 2.

Honestly, I’m just taking this as confirmation that Mr Negative is secretly the no. 1 champion in the game and Kabam are worried he’s too good for AW

I don't get the reason to nerf champs like this. Like there is no attacker bonus for High Ground as well. Every other modifier has always a bonus for attackers except Untouchable which they still don't want to answer because that one is ridiculous.
Secondly, there is no communication or anything done. They have changed the wrong global itself.
Lastly, even if it was being changed, such a drastic change is ridiculous. They could have made it 20-10 if using incinerate or something. This is uncalled for.
AW already needed a complete overhaul. They're just making it worse.
High Ground at 10 seconds definitely will need dexing around in order to play the node. But dex is random nowadays with the bug.
I hate saying stuff like this, but it seems like they really aren't hearing the community in general.

I agree with everything you’re saying except using the word nerf. It’s really not a nerf, just a counter to champs. Whether it is or isn’t too much of a counter is the debate here, but it’s not a nerf.

I hope Kabam do come through on their roadmap claims of redesigning AW from the ground up

I mean technically nerf means to render ineffective. HT has been in this case because other than a very small minority of the player base, I don't think anyone can play contactless. Like you can't even play him as a regular champ vs these nodes. Doom definitely less so, but I think you get my point
Either way, nerf or counter, I still feel that it is too much.

Nerf in the context of MCOC is a change in the abilities, it always has been. I get your point mate, and I don’t want this conversation to get bogged down and derailed in a nerf or counter, but seriously, this is not what a nerf is.

KnightZero

Hope they change High Ground back to what it was. Wouldn't want to fight this version at all.

pseudosane

This is ridiculous.
How the heck are officers /leaders supposed to assign for this? Counter the counters all over again, doesnt kabam have any creative ways to change difficulty?

KnightZero

Any way of reviving this thread but in the Bug Section? Because it might get more views from the mods there?