well it got old so fast

see for yourself

Comments

back in days people also disagreed with GR having incinerate immune. same goes for phasing
Are you arguing ghost should get a buff?
no this isnt buff. even this goes for kitty aswell. when something phase it cannot be touch in anyway
If ghost can’t be missed then that makes her better. So you are arguing for a buff.
“I’m not saying Ghost should be buffed, I’m saying her core mechanic should be changed in a way that makes her better. These are different things, I decided.”
It would do wonders for true focus, sorry Kabam designers, good luck trying to make true focus work - phasing means you can’t be touched in any way!

Easy – True Focus gives you enough focus to access whatever weird quantum realm Ghost phases into, allowing you to hit her anyway

I guess?

Not sure if I can explain Daredevil.

SirGamesBond

I don't really care if things evolves and game mechanics changes. But this was hilarious how they changed there own statements.
Hint: Not the first time.

Just deal with it, like we all did.

Terra

Makes perfect sense for DD to counter miss. Same as Torch countering miss because he gets really hot. Or Nick to counter miss for no apparent reason. Or for CGR to counter miss because he punches and shoots in the right order.

If you have an issue behind the logic of DD countering miss, then you need to have an issue with the logic of all game mechanics. Which just doesn’t make sense. It’s a game, not every mechanic makes sense in real world logic.
there's a different between invisibility and phasing. yes if someone is invisibile you can still hit them. but phasing?? you cant hit a ghost no matter how hot you are or how sharp you are
Weird that nobody ever has this issue that Nick can hit ghost phasing.

If you wanna petition Kabam to make the game more realistic sure, that’s a different matter. But I was replying to OP, not Reverend
well there should be some logics in game aswell also even zibiit stated my word that you cant hit ghost
Should Hulk be able to hit black widow without snapping her in two?

I've always had the headcanon that all the Iso-8 we feed into our champs brings them all on a equal playing field.

SHIELD4AGENT

If I'm too hot, even a ghost can hit on me and we start dating.
Then i wouldn't miss her cause we'll always be together.

TrashyPanda

It's dumb, but I can accept it. I guess our DD must have an extra hidden D or something.

D³reDevil.

Sarvanga1_

This is one of the only good abilities of DD on offense and you are saying to nerf it. My boi is already such an average champ. Why you want to kill him?🥲

DNA3000

Makes perfect sense for DD to counter miss. Same as Torch countering miss because he gets really hot. Or Nick to counter miss for no apparent reason. Or for CGR to counter miss because he punches and shoots in the right order.

If you have an issue behind the logic of DD countering miss, then you need to have an issue with the logic of all game mechanics. Which just doesn’t make sense. It’s a game, not every mechanic makes sense in real world logic.
there's a different between invisibility and phasing. yes if someone is invisibile you can still hit them. but phasing?? you cant hit a ghost no matter how hot you are or how sharp you are
Weird that nobody ever has this issue that Nick can hit ghost phasing.

If you wanna petition Kabam to make the game more realistic sure, that’s a different matter. But I was replying to OP, not Reverend
well there should be some logics in game aswell also even zibiit stated my word that you cant hit ghost
Should Hulk be able to hit black widow without snapping her in two?
not every logic can be applied to the game. but some can. like GR having incinerate immunity. he didnt have it till CGR came into the game
It’s a video game my guy, some logic has to be suspended to play it. You can’t really pick one piece of logic to stick to, but then say not this one. It’s game balance and it’s the reason we can have Hulk fighting black widow, it’s the reason Nick fury can hit ghost while phasing, and it’s the reason DD can hit ghost too.
well that's the problem here.... i agree with the first part. thanos cant be as strong as comics or he will knock everyone out. hulk cant be like mcu or comics so champions can crush him. but this thing it's like not adding bleed immune to a champion that cant bleed. or saying bleed and poison are same because both are dots. even the wording is different phasing and invisibility. there should be a different between them!
You even admit yourself you can’t apply logic to the game, either you hold yourself to make everything logical, or you accept that you can’t make a video game logical. They’re game mechanics, not rules for a life-like simulation

There are hundreds of situations like this you can point out. You’d be here all month trying to fix them all. Morningstar can be poisoned, Angela’s sword doesn’t bleed, iceman isn’t coldsnap immune.

You can’t apply too much logic to a marvel film, let alone a mobile video game based on a mixture of comic books, tv shows and films.

Do you not see how it’s a little much now?

When champions are taken from their universe, they are given ISO-8 which affects their powers, meaning Nick fury can be stronger than thanos. That is all the logic you’re getting there my friend. If you want to complain and campaign Kabam to change it, by all means, but just know it doesn’t really make much sense.
as i said and will say, yes you cant apply every logic to this game. this doesnt mean you there shouldnt be some logics there. no matter how much iso-8 are given. you cant make a bleed immune champ bleed. same goes for phasing you cant hit something if you cant touch jt

The critical difference here is that it is the game mechanics that should function logically consistently, not that the game must implement the champion's fictional abilities consistent with their portrayals. Bleed immunity is not a fictional ability, it is a game mechanic. It should function within the game in a logically consistent manner so the players know what's going on in the game.

But "phasing" and "invisibility" are not game mechanics. They are fluff text. The actual game mechanic is "miss" (at least at the moment as far as I'm aware: that can change). If you want something to phase, or turn invisible, or whatever else in the game you have to map that idea to the game mechanics that exist. Miss works in a particular way and interacts with other abilities in a particular way, and if miss is the closest analog to what you want to do, you either pick miss or just don't make the champion at all.

Mechanics cost time and resources to implement, and the more mechanics you make the more complexity cost you incur the game overall, so you can't just make custom mechanics for every single champion. You have to pick and choose when to spend those resources. The game is not a simulation of comic book physics, the game only intends to evoke those comic book abilities.

To put it another way, the champions fit into the game, the game doesn't warp around the needs of the characters. That would simply be impractical. The question "what do I need to change in the game to implement the champion I want in the way I want" is an expensive question that champion designers generally don't get to ask. Instead, most champions in the game answers the question "how can I best implement this Marvel character given the game mechanics that exist now."

At the end of the day, the reason why Daredevil can hit a phasing object is the same reason why the horsey in Chess can jump over towers, but the pawns cannot step around the guy in the pointy hat. Chess is a game that evokes warfare but doesn't simulate warfare. MCOC is a game that evokes comic book fighting but doesn't simulate comic book fighting.

Ethereality

Makes perfect sense for DD to counter miss. Same as Torch countering miss because he gets really hot. Or Nick to counter miss for no apparent reason. Or for CGR to counter miss because he punches and shoots in the right order.

If you have an issue behind the logic of DD countering miss, then you need to have an issue with the logic of all game mechanics. Which just doesn’t make sense. It’s a game, not every mechanic makes sense in real world logic.
there's a different between invisibility and phasing. yes if someone is invisibile you can still hit them. but phasing?? you cant hit a ghost no matter how hot you are or how sharp you are
Weird that nobody ever has this issue that Nick can hit ghost phasing.

If you wanna petition Kabam to make the game more realistic sure, that’s a different matter. But I was replying to OP, not Reverend
well there should be some logics in game aswell also even zibiit stated my word that you cant hit ghost
Should Hulk be able to hit black widow without snapping her in two?
not every logic can be applied to the game. but some can. like GR having incinerate immunity. he didnt have it till CGR came into the game
It’s a video game my guy, some logic has to be suspended to play it. You can’t really pick one piece of logic to stick to, but then say not this one. It’s game balance and it’s the reason we can have Hulk fighting black widow, it’s the reason Nick fury can hit ghost while phasing, and it’s the reason DD can hit ghost too.
well that's the problem here.... i agree with the first part. thanos cant be as strong as comics or he will knock everyone out. hulk cant be like mcu or comics so champions can crush him. but this thing it's like not adding bleed immune to a champion that cant bleed. or saying bleed and poison are same because both are dots. even the wording is different phasing and invisibility. there should be a different between them!
You even admit yourself you can’t apply logic to the game, either you hold yourself to make everything logical, or you accept that you can’t make a video game logical. They’re game mechanics, not rules for a life-like simulation

There are hundreds of situations like this you can point out. You’d be here all month trying to fix them all. Morningstar can be poisoned, Angela’s sword doesn’t bleed, iceman isn’t coldsnap immune.

You can’t apply too much logic to a marvel film, let alone a mobile video game based on a mixture of comic books, tv shows and films.

Do you not see how it’s a little much now?

When champions are taken from their universe, they are given ISO-8 which affects their powers, meaning Nick fury can be stronger than thanos. That is all the logic you’re getting there my friend. If you want to complain and campaign Kabam to change it, by all means, but just know it doesn’t really make much sense.
as i said and will say, yes you cant apply every logic to this game. this doesnt mean you there shouldnt be some logics there. no matter how much iso-8 are given. you cant make a bleed immune champ bleed. same goes for phasing you cant hit something if you cant touch jt
The critical difference here is that it is the game mechanics that should function logically consistently, not that the game must implement the champion's fictional abilities consistent with their portrayals. Bleed immunity is not a fictional ability, it is a game mechanic. It should function within the game in a logically consistent manner so the players know what's going on in the game.

But "phasing" and "invisibility" are not game mechanics. They are fluff text. The actual game mechanic is "miss" (at least at the moment as far as I'm aware: that can change). If you want something to phase, or turn invisible, or whatever else in the game you have to map that idea to the game mechanics that exist. Miss works in a particular way and interacts with other abilities in a particular way, and if miss is the closest analog to what you want to do, you either pick miss or just don't make the champion at all.

Mechanics cost time and resources to implement, and the more mechanics you make the more complexity cost you incur the game overall, so you can't just make custom mechanics for every single champion. You have to pick and choose when to spend those resources. The game is not a simulation of comic book physics, the game only intends to evoke those comic book abilities.

To put it another way, the champions fit into the game, the game doesn't warp around the needs of the characters. That would simply be impractical. The question "what do I need to change in the game to implement the champion I want in the way I want" is an expensive question that champion designers generally don't get to ask. Instead, most champions in the game answers the question "how can I best implement this Marvel character given the game mechanics that exist now."

At the end of the day, the reason why Daredevil can hit a phasing object is the same reason why the horsey in Chess can jump over towers, but the pawns cannot step around the guy in the pointy hat. Chess is a game that evokes warfare but doesn't simulate warfare. MCOC is a game that evokes comic book fighting but doesn't simulate comic book fighting.

Great post. I couldn't have put it better myself even if I had tried to. Awesome.

Reference

Two groups of players talking about different kinds of logics, each side only look at their own arguments.

1) Are you talking about logic in real life vs logic in game based on a comic?
2) Are you talking about logic in-game which created by the game company but growing inconsistent when more and more champs with different capabilities are being introduced?

If talking about (1) then there is no point to discuss as most of the things in comic are supernatural. If you're talking about (2) such as hellfire vs incinerate or iceman vs coldsnap then it is debatable.

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FluffyPigMonster

This is exactly how we should all view the game, IMO. This champ has this immunity based of his/her lore in the comics. Maybe not all the immunities, but Kabam - who runs this place - decided to give/not give this champ immunities. Or not.

In the comics Symbiotes are vulnerable to fire. We’re lucky they didn’t do something like +200% damage while a symbiote is incinerated as part of their base kit or something like that.

I believe we all want the most accurate depiction of a champion but in the end @Redslimm is correct IMO. It’s a game that is limited by rules.

AverageDesi

back in days people also disagreed with GR having incinerate immune. same goes for phasing
Are you arguing ghost should get a buff?
no this isnt buff. even this goes for kitty aswell. when something phase it cannot be touch in anyway
If ghost can’t be missed then that makes her better. So you are arguing for a buff.
“I’m not saying Ghost should be buffed, I’m saying her core mechanic should be changed in a way that makes her better. These are different things, I decided.”

"Changing core mechanics and not calling it a buff is TIGHT!"

Graves_3

back in days people also disagreed with GR having incinerate immune. same goes for phasing
Are you arguing ghost should get a buff?
no this isnt buff. even this goes for kitty aswell. when something phase it cannot be touch in anyway
If ghost can’t be missed then that makes her better. So you are arguing for a buff.
“I’m not saying Ghost should be buffed, I’m saying her core mechanic should be changed in a way that makes her better. These are different things, I decided.”
It would do wonders for true focus, sorry Kabam designers, good luck trying to make true focus work - phasing means you can’t be touched in any way!
Easy – True Focus gives you enough focus to access whatever weird quantum realm Ghost phases into, allowing you to hit her anyway

I guess?

Not sure if I can explain Daredevil.
Nobody can explain daredevil really, on the big screen at least. If we saw DD hit ghost and she gasped and asked how he did it, and he said it’s because he’s blind. That makes 0 sense.

However, this is a game, it doesn’t *need* to make sense. He has an ability that counters another ability in the game. I think that’s all that matters really.

Nick fury can be bled, he can suffer from bleed. But why, when he knocks an opponent down does that bleed get removed? He’s been shot right, or clawed by wolverine. He’s bleeding heavily, but oh wait, he’s punched Wolverine hard enough so he’s flat on his back and the wound has magically healed?! Where’s the logic in that?

Nick can only remove non damaging debuffs when he knocks someone down. Bleed will remain. Just FYI.

AverageDesi

you bring up immunity. but immunitiesin game are nothing other than flags the game consideres. you talk about iceman, but what do you think of colossus being immune to armour breaks in one fight but not immune in other fights? how does that make the remotest sense if we're applying the same logic you try to apply here?

AverageDesi

back in days people also disagreed with GR having incinerate immune. same goes for phasing
Are you arguing ghost should get a buff?
no this isnt buff. even this goes for kitty aswell. when something phase it cannot be touch in anyway
If ghost can’t be missed then that makes her better. So you are arguing for a buff.
“I’m not saying Ghost should be buffed, I’m saying her core mechanic should be changed in a way that makes her better. These are different things, I decided.”
It would do wonders for true focus, sorry Kabam designers, good luck trying to make true focus work - phasing means you can’t be touched in any way!
Easy – True Focus gives you enough focus to access whatever weird quantum realm Ghost phases into, allowing you to hit her anyway

I guess?

Not sure if I can explain Daredevil.
Nobody can explain daredevil really, on the big screen at least. If we saw DD hit ghost and she gasped and asked how he did it, and he said it’s because he’s blind. That makes 0 sense.

However, this is a game, it doesn’t *need* to make sense. He has an ability that counters another ability in the game. I think that’s all that matters really.

Nick fury can be bled, he can suffer from bleed. But why, when he knocks an opponent down does that bleed get removed? He’s been shot right, or clawed by wolverine. He’s bleeding heavily, but oh wait, he’s punched Wolverine hard enough so he’s flat on his back and the wound has magically healed?! Where’s the logic in that?
Nick can only remove non damaging debuffs when he knocks someone down. Bleed will remain. Just FYI.

if you have more than 10 tactical charges he removes all debuffs. except petrify from doombot for some reason

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Wicket329

back in days people also disagreed with GR having incinerate immune. same goes for phasing
Are you arguing ghost should get a buff?
no this isnt buff. even this goes for kitty aswell. when something phase it cannot be touch in anyway
If ghost can’t be missed then that makes her better. So you are arguing for a buff.
“I’m not saying Ghost should be buffed, I’m saying her core mechanic should be changed in a way that makes her better. These are different things, I decided.”
"Changing core mechanics and not calling it a buff is TIGHT!"

“Listen sir, I’m gonna need you to get allll the way off my back about whether I’m trying to get one of the best champion in the game buffed”

FluffyPigMonster

Well, if you want to continue down this path, why does ghost gain fury when she removes debuffs, do you want us to evaluate whether it makes sense that too?

Why does Daredevil have eyeholes cut in his mask if he’s blind?

Graves_3

@Graves_3 my post got sent to the abyss of approval, but here is how Nick purifies bleed

My bad! Never used that ability. It pays to read the full text and commit to memory!!

AverageDesi

back in days people also disagreed with GR having incinerate immune. same goes for phasing
Are you arguing ghost should get a buff?
no this isnt buff. even this goes for kitty aswell. when something phase it cannot be touch in anyway
If ghost can’t be missed then that makes her better. So you are arguing for a buff.
“I’m not saying Ghost should be buffed, I’m saying her core mechanic should be changed in a way that makes her better. These are different things, I decided.”
"Changing core mechanics and not calling it a buff is TIGHT!"
“Listen sir, I’m gonna need you to get allll the way off my back about whether I’m trying to get one of the best champion in the game buffed”

"what is the economic impact of this change? Like would it lead to players using less revives?"

unknown

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