A CHANCE of increased gold is no guarantee. The language in the announcement compared the 30% increase to the 20% increase from previous events. This implies a guaranteed flat rate of 20%. Not only is it making things difficult when you add chance to the mix, but since some people will have poor luck it will appear to them that your promise of 30% was deceitful.
Alright, everybody! We've just pushed the change live, so the change to Gold amounts should be live within the next hour.
This change will revert the drop rates of the crystals to the old ones, and increase all gold payouts by 30% instead of the current system.
This should not change how much Gold players got from opening many crystals, but we are going to verify to make sure that is correct. We will look at the gold payouts before and after the change early next week, and determine if there is any action required.
Thank you all for pointing this out, and we apologize for this situation and confusion.
This is a callous response to the issue. I foolishly trusted you and opened all my crystals not thinking it was rigged to RNG and to a flat increase. Catching up on all this... just what a let down and this response is icing on the cake.
Can't believe they increased the drop rate and called it a 30% increase. So shady.
The gold crystals are random. There is no way to "guarantee" getting more gold. That's impossible. There are two ways to make the gold crystals drop more gold on average: increase the value of the drops and keep the random odds the same, or keep the value of the drops the same and increase the odds for the crystals to drop the bigger prizes. Neither of those is a "guarantee" and neither is "shady."
When the devs increased the odds for Cavalier crystals to drop 6* champs, that was an increase in the value of the crystals. No one said that was a shady change and instead of increasing the odds of dropping a 6* champ they should have kept the odds the same low value and added a couple hundred 6* shards to the drop instead. Because that would be ridiculous.
There are differences between changing the drop rates and changing the drop values, but those differences are subtle, and neither is universally better for all players. The biggest difference between the two is that one of them is easier for players to see and understand, and one of them takes math and data collection to verify. But they both increase the average amount of gold players get overall, and neither is capable of making any kind of "guarantee" of getting more. That's not how random chance works.
Anyone who opened crystals after the boost went live but before the boost was changed has no reason to believe they were short changed. Assuming crystal odds were changed as the developers describe, no player was handed a worse crystal during that interval, and no player should have any expectation that they got less than what they would have gotten under the updated crystals. It could just as easily have been more, and by definition if the odds were changed in the manner the devs describe, any attempt to prove a player got less than what they deserved would fail, because that's the very definition of how probability is calculated.
All bets are off if the original boost change contained a mathematical error, but there's currently no evidence of that.
A CHANCE of increased gold is no guarantee. The language in the announcement compared the 30% increase to the 20% increase from previous events. This implies a guaranteed flat rate of 20%. Not only is it making things difficult when you add chance to the mix, but since some people will have poor luck it will appear to them that your promise of 30% was deceitful.
Alright, everybody! We've just pushed the change live, so the change to Gold amounts should be live within the next hour.
This change will revert the drop rates of the crystals to the old ones, and increase all gold payouts by 30% instead of the current system.
This should not change how much Gold players got from opening many crystals, but we are going to verify to make sure that is correct. We will look at the gold payouts before and after the change early next week, and determine if there is any action required.
Thank you all for pointing this out, and we apologize for this situation and confusion.
This is a callous response to the issue. I foolishly trusted you and opened all my crystals not thinking it was rigged to RNG and to a flat increase. Catching up on all this... just what a let down and this response is icing on the cake.
Can't believe they increased the drop rate and called it a 30% increase. So shady.
The gold crystals are random. There is no way to "guarantee" getting more gold. That's impossible. .
This took more time than I would have liked to understand what you meant.
Although, if we were to increase the minimum to higher than the maximum, it does guarantee more gold than now,no? Or you excluded that as a nonexistent possibility?
A CHANCE of increased gold is no guarantee. The language in the announcement compared the 30% increase to the 20% increase from previous events. This implies a guaranteed flat rate of 20%. Not only is it making things difficult when you add chance to the mix, but since some people will have poor luck it will appear to them that your promise of 30% was deceitful.
Alright, everybody! We've just pushed the change live, so the change to Gold amounts should be live within the next hour.
This change will revert the drop rates of the crystals to the old ones, and increase all gold payouts by 30% instead of the current system.
This should not change how much Gold players got from opening many crystals, but we are going to verify to make sure that is correct. We will look at the gold payouts before and after the change early next week, and determine if there is any action required.
Thank you all for pointing this out, and we apologize for this situation and confusion.
This is a callous response to the issue. I foolishly trusted you and opened all my crystals not thinking it was rigged to RNG and to a flat increase. Catching up on all this... just what a let down and this response is icing on the cake.
Can't believe they increased the drop rate and called it a 30% increase. So shady.
The gold crystals are random. There is no way to "guarantee" getting more gold. That's impossible. There are two ways to make the gold crystals drop more gold on average: increase the value of the drops and keep the random odds the same, or keep the value of the drops the same and increase the odds for the crystals to drop the bigger prizes. Neither of those is a "guarantee" and neither is "shady."
When the devs increased the odds for Cavalier crystals to drop 6* champs, that was an increase in the value of the crystals. No one said that was a shady change and instead of increasing the odds of dropping a 6* champ they should have kept the odds the same low value and added a couple hundred 6* shards to the drop instead. Because that would be ridiculous.
There are differences between changing the drop rates and changing the drop values, but those differences are subtle, and neither is universally better for all players. The biggest difference between the two is that one of them is easier for players to see and understand, and one of them takes math and data collection to verify. But they both increase the average amount of gold players get overall, and neither is capable of making any kind of "guarantee" of getting more. That's not how random chance works.
Anyone who opened crystals after the boost went live but before the boost was changed has no reason to believe they were short changed. Assuming crystal odds were changed as the developers describe, no player was handed a worse crystal during that interval, and no player should have any expectation that they got less than what they would have gotten under the updated crystals. It could just as easily have been more, and by definition if the odds were changed in the manner the devs describe, any attempt to prove a player got less than what they deserved would fail, because that's the very definition of how probability is calculated.
All bets are off if the original boost change contained a mathematical error, but there's currently no evidence of that.
That's if you open a large number of crystals. On the gold crystals I opened a few hundred so the odds were I got the correct increase but in TB arena crystals I only opened 10 so it could have easily gone against me on the TB arena crystals.
Can you explain why this is worse? I'd like to take that to the team. If the increase is to odds to give you more gold, I'm not sure why that's worse than just a plain boost to gold if it averages out to the same thing.
Before , if we pulled 10k gold, the boost increased it to 12k gold. What the announcement made it seem was instead of 12k, we would now pull 13 k instead of the original 10k. That was what everyone or atleast most expected.
I think the goal here is that this way, if you would have pulled 100k, you're usually going to pull 130k. So it definitely works out to a boost, but not on a single crystal basis.
Why go that route instead of the usual flat method? Unnecessary complication and conversations.
Because we can't ever make things easy on ourselves
Wait are u guys trying to say that with this method a gold crystal has a chance to "crit" for 30% more... Thats not better than the 2x a year 20% boost...
Not at all, and this is why I need somebody who understands this better to explain. This is not about a chance to get 30%, it's about everything averaging out to 30% on average when opening your crystals. This is taking things like Drop Rates and amount into account. There is no world in which a temporary 20% boost is better here.
Lol, in ANY world, a GUARANTEE is ALWAYS better than a CHANCE.
A CHANCE of increased gold is no guarantee. The language in the announcement compared the 30% increase to the 20% increase from previous events. This implies a guaranteed flat rate of 20%. Not only is it making things difficult when you add chance to the mix, but since some people will have poor luck it will appear to them that your promise of 30% was deceitful.
Alright, everybody! We've just pushed the change live, so the change to Gold amounts should be live within the next hour.
This change will revert the drop rates of the crystals to the old ones, and increase all gold payouts by 30% instead of the current system.
This should not change how much Gold players got from opening many crystals, but we are going to verify to make sure that is correct. We will look at the gold payouts before and after the change early next week, and determine if there is any action required.
Thank you all for pointing this out, and we apologize for this situation and confusion.
This is a callous response to the issue. I foolishly trusted you and opened all my crystals not thinking it was rigged to RNG and to a flat increase. Catching up on all this... just what a let down and this response is icing on the cake.
Can't believe they increased the drop rate and called it a 30% increase. So shady.
The gold crystals are random. There is no way to "guarantee" getting more gold. That's impossible. .
This took more time than I would have liked to understand what you meant.
Although, if we were to increase the minimum to higher than the maximum, it does guarantee more gold than now,no? Or you excluded that as a nonexistent possibility?
Sure, you can make the crystals drop a billion gold each. That would guarantee they always drop more gold. What I should have said is there’s no way to guarantee getting +30% more gold, or any similar reasonable increase of comparable magnitude by changing only the drop values of the individual drop items and not altering the odds of those drops to the trivial degenerate case of a single option’s drop probability set to unity.
Now that we got some rest over the weekend. Can we have some clarification. We never received an in game notification saying it was live. I posted this early once @Kabam Miike made the post on these forums saying it was live. I opened my crystals to only see that is was an average and kabam miike would go and talk. I have submitted a ticket to support with no response. This is not a smooth past couple of months. But other summoners and myself have stuck it out. Only to get iso selector as a 🎁. I will continue to wait for a response on forums or my ticket i have logged. I think this is un fair and should be addressed asap.
for those who are unsure yes the change is live the amount went up and yes it's no more rng based it's a permanent 30% boost. so good luck opening crystals people
So the sigil we pay to use every month and do the gold circle didn’t get a boost?
No, they said just the gold crystals and arena crystals. No quests or champ dupes or direct gold from arena wins or milestones or selling things, etc. That was why they said they were doing 30% for just those instead of the 20% across the board gold boost.
@Kabam Miike please let the support team know this is an issue that as not been addressed and needs to be resolved. Miike you said it was live with no in game notification. I popped all my crystals to only find it was not increased 30%. Can you please look into this and provide proper resolution.
If you opened crystals after the first buff but before the buff was adjusted, there's no compensation possible for that. They can only compensate players for the difference between the average value of the originally buffed crystals and the updated value of the final crystals. And if the odds were changed in the manner they described, the average difference between those two would be zero.
People are saying they don't want a "chance" to get more, they want a "guarantee" to get more, but that's not how random crystals work. I think people are thinking that if they got a certain set of drops, under the current crystals all of those drops would be higher, but under the original buff all those drops would be the same, so obviously the updated buff was better. The problem is that under the original buff the odds of those drops were different, so you cannot say you would have gotten that set of drops only higher. Under the current buff players who open now will tend to get a lower distribution of drops than the players who opened before the adjustment.
Or to put it another way, if the players who opened early can ask for compensation, why can't the players opening now ask for compensation because they are getting lower odds for their drops than the players who opened early? How can everyone claim they have it worse off? They can't, because they don't. We can't know if the odds themselves were adjusted correctly unless Kabam publishes them, but aside from that assuming they were adjusted correctly both crystals generated the same average value, and thus anyone opening them under the first buff or the second buff would have no grounds to ask for compensation.
The two different kinds of buffs aren't exactly identical, and there are some subtle differences in how the benefits are distributed across players. But there's no way to objectively calculate any missed value from the crystals.
It has been over a week with no resolution to your pre-live announcement @Kabam Miike . The people who follow your forum posts saying it was live need to be compensated. This is unfair in how this was handled and now the summoners have to pay for this?! Gold is an on going issue and when you say you are going to do something not only as a person but as a company this have should be handled differently and hopefully it does get resolved. It is unfair for those to have opened the crystal from this thread only to find out it was not live. Please address this.
It has been awhile now and i do not want this thread to die. This is for all that were watching the forums on December 10th and @Kabam Miike said it was live and it was live for a little while. So we opened crystals. I opened 10x uncollected only to see slight increase of to 2,500 minimum amount for 10x crystals. The miike said it was an average and to open in large amounts and it will average out. I opened all my crystals trusting kabam to average them out. The miike said he would go talk to the team. Then the average went to 19,500 in game made to the crystal. This was a change to the crystal and how it was shown in game. Miike tried to explain how hoarding was bad but this brought on the topic that hoarding is not good. So the idea went to kabam to change from an average over bulk opened to 30% increase flat rate to the uc crystal. What about the people that trusted @Kabam Miike post on this thread and did not get the correct amount?? My ticket got closed with no hope. This is an in game resource that is and was hyped for a reason. Please help out myself and other summoners who trusted this thread and posts from @Kabam Miike . Like i said i have played for awhile and have spent as well. I feel like if you would address this post to at least show you are looking into it. No support from other admins either which is disappointing. Hopefully you can see this was wrong and address.
It has been over a week with no resolution to your pre-live announcement @Kabam Miike . The people who follow your forum posts saying it was live need to be compensated. This is unfair in how this was handled and now the summoners have to pay for this?! Gold is an on going issue and when you say you are going to do something not only as a person but as a company this have should be handled differently and hopefully it does get resolved. It is unfair for those to have opened the crystal from this thread only to find out it was not live. Please address this.
Comments
When the devs increased the odds for Cavalier crystals to drop 6* champs, that was an increase in the value of the crystals. No one said that was a shady change and instead of increasing the odds of dropping a 6* champ they should have kept the odds the same low value and added a couple hundred 6* shards to the drop instead. Because that would be ridiculous.
There are differences between changing the drop rates and changing the drop values, but those differences are subtle, and neither is universally better for all players. The biggest difference between the two is that one of them is easier for players to see and understand, and one of them takes math and data collection to verify. But they both increase the average amount of gold players get overall, and neither is capable of making any kind of "guarantee" of getting more. That's not how random chance works.
Anyone who opened crystals after the boost went live but before the boost was changed has no reason to believe they were short changed. Assuming crystal odds were changed as the developers describe, no player was handed a worse crystal during that interval, and no player should have any expectation that they got less than what they would have gotten under the updated crystals. It could just as easily have been more, and by definition if the odds were changed in the manner the devs describe, any attempt to prove a player got less than what they deserved would fail, because that's the very definition of how probability is calculated.
All bets are off if the original boost change contained a mathematical error, but there's currently no evidence of that.
Although, if we were to increase the minimum to higher than the maximum, it does guarantee more gold than now,no? Or you excluded that as a nonexistent possibility?
I get it that the changes went live, but then they said that they were gonna change it all across the board and evaluate results sometime next week.
Sorry if I'm dumb but those this mean that it might change sometime on the future so it's better to hold on to them?
Can someone just answer with a simple "Yes" or "No" the following question:
Should I open now the gold crystals?
Thanks in advance
Thank you for your time.
yes the change is live the amount went up
and yes it's no more rng based it's a permanent 30% boost. so good luck opening crystals people
People are saying they don't want a "chance" to get more, they want a "guarantee" to get more, but that's not how random crystals work. I think people are thinking that if they got a certain set of drops, under the current crystals all of those drops would be higher, but under the original buff all those drops would be the same, so obviously the updated buff was better. The problem is that under the original buff the odds of those drops were different, so you cannot say you would have gotten that set of drops only higher. Under the current buff players who open now will tend to get a lower distribution of drops than the players who opened before the adjustment.
Or to put it another way, if the players who opened early can ask for compensation, why can't the players opening now ask for compensation because they are getting lower odds for their drops than the players who opened early? How can everyone claim they have it worse off? They can't, because they don't. We can't know if the odds themselves were adjusted correctly unless Kabam publishes them, but aside from that assuming they were adjusted correctly both crystals generated the same average value, and thus anyone opening them under the first buff or the second buff would have no grounds to ask for compensation.
The two different kinds of buffs aren't exactly identical, and there are some subtle differences in how the benefits are distributed across players. But there's no way to objectively calculate any missed value from the crystals.
Thanks for your time.
@Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Porthos @Kabam Vydious @Kabam Lyra may also chime in. To help let us know you are at least working on it.
It has been awhile now and i do not want this thread to die. This is for all that were watching the forums on December 10th and @Kabam Miike said it was live and it was live for a little while. So we opened crystals. I opened 10x uncollected only to see slight increase of to 2,500 minimum amount for 10x crystals. The miike said it was an average and to open in large amounts and it will average out. I opened all my crystals trusting kabam to average them out. The miike said he would go talk to the team. Then the average went to 19,500 in game made to the crystal. This was a change to the crystal and how it was shown in game. Miike tried to explain how hoarding was bad but this brought on the topic that hoarding is not good. So the idea went to kabam to change from an average over bulk opened to 30% increase flat rate to the uc crystal. What about the people that trusted @Kabam Miike post on this thread and did not get the correct amount?? My ticket got closed with no hope. This is an in game resource that is and was hyped for a reason. Please help out myself and other summoners who trusted this thread and posts from @Kabam Miike . Like i said i have played for awhile and have spent as well. I feel like if you would address this post to at least show you are looking into it. No support from other admins either which is disappointing. Hopefully you can see this was wrong and address.
Thanks,
Ben