App Store Violations/Compensation

With the Christmas Deals came crystals. As these were listed as part of the unit offers, they were “sold” without drop rates posted before the crystals were purchased.

When will we get our compensation crystals with visible drop rates?

Comments

Ace2319

Did you open your crystal already?

NastyPhish

Did you open your crystal already?

They actually sold us selectors. Which we had to claim right away. So yeah I opened them.

MasterSmoke

Glad i didn’t buy anything.

unknown

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Kade7175

Does anyone have a link to the original thread for this? Im trying to find it

Ace2319

Did you open your crystal already?
They actually sold us selectors. Which we had to claim right away. So yeah I opened them.

I know I bought one, I meant did you open the crystal you picked

NastyPhish

Did you open your crystal already?
They actually sold us selectors. Which we had to claim right away. So yeah I opened them.
I know I bought one, I meant did you open the crystal you picked

Sure I opened them. But I think you misunderstand me. I want the deal, the one I paid for, one that follows and abides by all the App Store rules. That being said...

it’s not my responsibility to babysit this company and wait to make sure everything is above board before I open what I buy. It’s their responsibility to sell LEGAL deals. And when they don’t, we have recourse. Either we get compensated, or we have a legal right to a refund.

If they wanna remove the 5* Medusa I rolled and the 3* Nebula. By all means, have at it. But they painted themselves into a legal corner here.

DNA3000

Did you open your crystal already?
They actually sold us selectors. Which we had to claim right away. So yeah I opened them.
I know I bought one, I meant did you open the crystal you picked
Sure I opened them. But I think you misunderstand me. I want the deal, the one I paid for, one that follows and abides by all the App Store rules. That being said...

it’s not my responsibility to babysit this company and wait to make sure everything is above board before I open what I buy. It’s their responsibility to sell LEGAL deals. And when they don’t, we have recourse. Either we get compensated, or we have a legal right to a refund.

If they wanna remove the 5* Medusa I rolled and the 3* Nebula. By all means, have at it. But they painted themselves into a legal corner here.

You do not have a legal right to a refund. Apple does have a developer guideline that specifies that all lootbox rewards that are sold to the customer must display their drop odds. But that doesn't mean you have any legal rights related to this purchase.

First of all, Apple has not given clear guidance on what "purchase" means but most Apple developers are interpreting this as being "sold directly for cash." Items that are not sold directly for cash, such as things sold for intermediate currencies, are not considered subject to the rule by most developers. In this case, the crystals themselves were not sold, they were bonus items added to the unit packs. You could argue they were "sold" but that's not an air tight argument, and the final arbiters of that argument would be Kabam and Apple.

Which is the other problem with your contention that you are legally entitled to a refund. The Apple App store guidelines are between Apple and the developer. They are not an advertisement to the players. Apple, and only Apple has any recourse against Kabam if it feels Kabam has violated those terms. *You* have no direct rights under the app developer guidelines. The app store guidelines are a set of requirements placed on Kabam by Apple, and only Apple can determine whether those guidelines are being followed. Your only right as a customer is to report Kabam to Apple if you feel they are not following the guidelines correctly. You have no legal right to refund under the app store developer guidelines. Apple, for example, is free to violate all their app store guidelines, and you would have no legal recourse, because Apple gets to decide what happens when those guidelines are violated.

The guidelines are not even contractual requirements. They are called "guidelines" because they are an attempt by Apple to explain all the different ways in which an app can be rejected by the App store review process. As Apple states many times, they have the sole discretion to accept or reject an app. To quote from the current guidelines document: We will reject apps for any content or behavior that we believe is over the line. What line, you ask? Well, as a Supreme Court Justice once said, “I’ll know it when I see it”. And we think that you will also know it when you cross it. The guidelines are just a point-in-time expression of Apple's internal policies regarding apps on the app store as communicated to its developers. But the app store guidelines do not eliminate Apple's discretion when it comes to judging app store apps. They have the sole and final decision on whether an app is acceptable or not, regardless of what the guidelines say.

unknown

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Hopper1313

I'd just like Kabam to acknowledge their violations rather than ignoring, deflecting, or making up an excuse (i.e. "We believe we found the cause of the display issue", yeah okay sure and that's what I said in 3rd grade when I didn't do my homework)

DNA3000

Did you open your crystal already?
They actually sold us selectors. Which we had to claim right away. So yeah I opened them.
I know I bought one, I meant did you open the crystal you picked
Sure I opened them. But I think you misunderstand me. I want the deal, the one I paid for, one that follows and abides by all the App Store rules. That being said...

it’s not my responsibility to babysit this company and wait to make sure everything is above board before I open what I buy. It’s their responsibility to sell LEGAL deals. And when they don’t, we have recourse. Either we get compensated, or we have a legal right to a refund.

If they wanna remove the 5* Medusa I rolled and the 3* Nebula. By all means, have at it. But they painted themselves into a legal corner here.
You do not have a legal right to a refund. Apple does have a developer guideline that specifies that all lootbox rewards that are sold to the customer must display their drop odds. But that doesn't mean you have any legal rights related to this purchase.

First of all, Apple has not given clear guidance on what "purchase" means but most Apple developers are interpreting this as being "sold directly for cash." Items that are not sold directly for cash, such as things sold for intermediate currencies, are not considered subject to the rule by most developers. In this case, the crystals themselves were not sold, they were bonus items added to the unit packs. You could argue they were "sold" but that's not an air tight argument, and the final arbiters of that argument would be Kabam and Apple.

Which is the other problem with your contention that you are legally entitled to a refund. The Apple App store guidelines are between Apple and the developer. They are not an advertisement to the players. Apple, and only Apple has any recourse against Kabam if it feels Kabam has violated those terms. *You* have no direct rights under the app developer guidelines. The app store guidelines are a set of requirements placed on Kabam by Apple, and only Apple can determine whether those guidelines are being followed. Your only right as a customer is to report Kabam to Apple if you feel they are not following the guidelines correctly. You have no legal right to refund under the app store developer guidelines. Apple, for example, is free to violate all their app store guidelines, and you would have no legal recourse, because Apple gets to decide what happens when those guidelines are violated.

The guidelines are not even contractual requirements. They are called "guidelines" because they are an attempt by Apple to explain all the different ways in which an app can be rejected by the App store review process. As Apple states many times, they have the sole discretion to accept or reject an app. To quote from the current guidelines document: We will reject apps for any content or behavior that we believe is over the line. What line, you ask? Well, as a Supreme Court Justice once said, “I’ll know it when I see it”. And we think that you will also know it when you cross it. The guidelines are just a point-in-time expression of Apple's internal policies regarding apps on the app store as communicated to its developers. But the app store guidelines do not eliminate Apple's discretion when it comes to judging app store apps. They have the sole and final decision on whether an app is acceptable or not, regardless of what the guidelines say.
This is false

You are correct in that lootboxes sold for cash need drop rates but you are incorrect in saying that these crystals were just bonuses, they were bought directly for cash

That’s not how I would interpret those sales, but if you think your interpretation is that solid, by all means contact Apple and make your case to them. As I said, the only interpretation that ultimately matters is theirs, as it is their guideline. My understanding is they are highly unlikely to agree with you given their past actions (and non-actions).

unknown

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Kabam Habanero

NastyPhish,
This issue has been addressed by staff here. The forums are not the location to discuss billing issues or payment disputes with payment processors. This is considered non-constructive; Technically, refunds are covered in the ToS and aren't allowed. Please review the forum rules, and refrain from such discussions on the forums. Players always have the ability to request a refund for in game purchases, which can be done through game support. Thank you!

unknown

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