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Throne breaker has too much luck involved

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    GhostboytjieGhostboytjie Posts: 2,227 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Luffy_00 said:

    the game is mainly about chance and luck there’s no denying that.

    All of life is mainly about chance and luck. Whether you wake up tomorrow is dependent on whether or not you are destroyed by an asteroid impact.

    Chance is an element of the game. But it doesn't dictate player experience. Players dictate their experience. The players who believe this, and play accordingly, find that chance is at best a short term thing. In the long run, player activity dictates where you are in six months, in a year, in seven years.

    The players who believe luck dictates everything generally don't survive long. Good luck will encourage them, but bad luck will discourage them, and everyone gets bad luck. If you believe you're in control, you'll take actions to overcome bad luck. If you believe luck dictates everything you won't, because it doesn't matter what you do.

    Believing you're in control and believing luck is everything are both self-fulfilling prophesies. Games are all about choice, and choice number one is deciding whether you're playing the game, or the game is playing you.
    Hold up... Astroid? @DNA3000 you know something we don't?
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    Lovejoy72Lovejoy72 Posts: 1,858 ★★★★
    edited June 2022
    It is interesting to have two active threads running, both of which essentially stating that the process used to determine title are flawed. And both stating completely opposite opinions about which process is right (content versus champ progression).
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    KeremKerem Posts: 140
    DNA3000 said:

    Kerem said:

    Luffy_00 said:

    Badass84 said:

    Then you just have to play a longer time. This game is a marathon not a sprint.

    7 years is how old my account is granted i did take breaks and you’re telling me to play longer that’s just not reasonable. It’s essentially just testing your luck with fragments to see if you can become tb
    No matter what if you’ve been playing this game for 7 years and you’re not even a TB, that means you’re doing something wrong!!
    I would say if someone has been playing for seven years and isn't Thronebreaker they are doing something less, not something wrong.

    Thronebreaker is the second highest progress tier in this game. You don't get there just because you've had the game installed on your phone for seven years. You get it by doing things: lots of things. A high activity player that isn't thronebreaker after seven years and wants to be almost certainly has things they could be doing better to achieve it. But someone playing casually for seven years, "taking breaks" during that time, doesn't have to be anywhere in particular in the game.

    Nobody plays a massively multiplayer game that doesn't care about the other players around them. But players of progressional games have to have reasonable expectations. And it is simply not reasonable to want what other players have without doing what they are doing. If you are highly skilled and knowledgeable, you can achieve TB in six months like BitterSteel did. More likely, a highly active player that plays reasonable well and for reasonable amounts of time could do it in eighteen months to two years. That's an entirely reasonable amount of time to achieve the second highest progressional tier in a game that's eight years old.

    When it comes to progression, this is a game of months and years, not days and weeks. If that kind of timeline is unreasonable to someone, then this is probably not the game for them. You *can* get Cavalier in days, you *can* get Thronebreaker in weeks, but only a tiny percentage of players could do that. The game intends much longer time frames to progress. But that time frame will ultimately be different for different players. There's nothing "wrong" about taking a long time to reach TB, or even Cav. What matters is having the right expectation for the level of effort you're putting in.
    Yes, I would say “less” instead of “wrong” for someone if someone wasn’t talking the way he was!

    Well make sure you tag him next time otherwise that may take another 7 years for him to see your advice & explanation.
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    Liss_Bliss_Liss_Bliss_ Posts: 1,779 ★★★★★
    I have 4 R3 champs. And I am stuck at 6.3.6 right now. Have not spent on offers or spent on the gifting events. How do people not have multiple R3 champs prior to completing Act6?
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    Colinwhitworth69Colinwhitworth69 Posts: 7,199 ★★★★★
    I just got a natural sig 80 on Red Cyclops.

    That’s some luck.
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    Lovejoy72Lovejoy72 Posts: 1,858 ★★★★

    I have 4 R3 champs. And I am stuck at 6.3.6 right now. Have not spent on offers or spent on the gifting events. How do people not have multiple R3 champs prior to completing Act6?

    I mean I didn’t have any until I got the rewards for finishing act 6. But that is a different time I guess. On the other thread talking about cavalier requirements, the guy has a 6R3, and he still hasn’t finished cavalier.
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    TrapKill66TrapKill66 Posts: 96
    I started playing in mid 2019 and I will be TB in a month or two. Not gonna rush, happy with my 40 or so 6 stars and a couple of rank 3s. Ranked 3'd my Sunspot months ago. Got awakened Dragonman ranked 3'd last month, or the one before. I am no whale, either. Just a sigil and unit card kinda fish.
    I got there with alt accounts farming units for GGCs to send to myself. I have 5 alts that I auto battle through the two easiest monthly EQs. Every month. All paths.
    The aim is 6-8 thousand units per account by December, got there last year, at around 9 thousand + units, but the story quests are all done for those accounts now. Gonna do it again this year.
    I use the alts while watching tv with my wife in the evenings. It's simple. It's a long game approach, which we all know is needed for MCoC.
    There are other ways, though. Grinding, for the most part. Some luck is involved, but selectors for t5cc are definitely out there.

    Keep at it,
    Trapkill :)

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    RicoShayRicoShay Posts: 228 ★★

    I have 4 R3 champs. And I am stuck at 6.3.6 right now. Have not spent on offers or spent on the gifting events. How do people not have multiple R3 champs prior to completing Act6?

    A lot of it comes down to planning and skill. If you're not TB yet it's due to the lack thereof. Every lane has specific counters and sometimes it's better to use a 5/65 5* that fits the path instead of your top champs but I'm sure you know that. 6.3.6 is a terrible bottleneck to be stuck at because if your roster isn't developed you're going to want to have unitman come along and take the boss down in gradual amounts. Theres a few ways around the boss if he's the issue you're blocked by. Doom + diablo (most people have ranked doom), hitmonkey, starky, she hulk, killmonger (sp2 indestructible tank) and I always suggest bringing a guardian along for the added block prof. To answer your question in simple it's usually down to skill. Try explore act 4/5 or variants for experience and watch high level gameplay + strategy videos for the best scaling in skills.
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    VendemiaireVendemiaire Posts: 2,178 ★★★★★

    I have 4 R3 champs. And I am stuck at 6.3.6 right now. Have not spent on offers or spent on the gifting events. How do people not have multiple R3 champs prior to completing Act6?

    Wow! How did you have that lot of R3s before 6.4? I explored 7.1, all the variants that gave 25% T5CCs, etc. a year ago and still didn't get to have my first R3. Had to clear the Abyss to get my 1st.
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    TrapKill66TrapKill66 Posts: 96
    Also, t5cc were available in the Mystic Archives last month for me as Cav. No selector as such, just had to choose the 'pack' you want for 600 of those things you could get from the side quest, can't remember what they were called, some kind of temporary side quest resource.
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    AMS94AMS94 Posts: 1,776 ★★★★★
    This was a genuine issue when TB title was announced, but it's not an issue anymore
    Variants, Glory store, Cav difficulty, Act 7, AW
    Start doing all of this & u'll have ur T5CC soon
    Act 7 is for the most part easier than Act 6 & provides good amount of T5CC
    U just need to get a hang of how to play & who to use
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    winterthurwinterthur Posts: 7,886 ★★★★★

    I have 4 R3 champs. And I am stuck at 6.3.6 right now. Have not spent on offers or spent on the gifting events. How do people not have multiple R3 champs prior to completing Act6?

    I have 12 5-Star max champs, no 6-Star R2. Will I have a chance against 6.3.6?

    Are you referring to 6.4.6 instead?
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,794 Guardian
    Lovejoy72 said:

    It is interesting to have two active threads running, both of which essentially stating that the process used to determine title are flawed. And both stating completely opposite opinions about which process is right (content versus champ progression).

    Well they are both wrong. Progression is a holistic thing in a progression game that depends on how a lot of variable design decisions mesh together. Anyone who thinks one or the other is the "right" was as a rule doesn't understand how games work and is just projecting their preferences as if they were rules.

    When this game launched *neither* was the explicit path to progress. You could, as we used to say in D&D (or for that matter in World of Warcraft) XP was fungible. You could do Act 2, then Act 3, then Act 4. Or you could just do monthly content over and over again, just like you could kill a million rats and end up in the same place as players doing high difficulty content.

    One thing MCOC is pretty consistent in doing is reinventing the wheel. They started off with XP based progression, then went to content gated progression, and now they have a hybrid content/roster progression system. If a progression game lasts long enough, it eventually gets there. I can even tell you what's next on the evolutionary tree: its some form of end game orthogonal progression system. WoW had its raid gear. City of Heroes had the Incarnate system. Lineage 2 had its PvP oriented end game (really, the actual game but point stands). Eventually the next link in the chain takes you to a for-realsies end game progression path that is distinct from the normal path in that a) you need to actually be in the end game to make any progress at all and b) most or all of that progress is only usable in the actual end game, so that it doesn't blow up the base game.

    As this actually requires a real end game, which MCOC doesn't have, it will be interesting to see if they iterate a mutant version of this, or actually try to make an actual end game.
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    RicoShayRicoShay Posts: 228 ★★

    I have 4 R3 champs. And I am stuck at 6.3.6 right now. Have not spent on offers or spent on the gifting events. How do people not have multiple R3 champs prior to completing Act6?

    I have 12 5-Star max champs, no 6-Star R2. Will I have a chance against 6.3.6?

    Are you referring to 6.4.6 instead?
    Depends who they are. Easy to say that you've got x amount of champs ranked but who are they, what is their niche, how will they work on 6.3.6. All things you need to consider so I reckon dropping your roster in might give the forums more room to figure out if your roster is capable. If you are is a whole other question
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    winterthurwinterthur Posts: 7,886 ★★★★★
    edited June 2022
    @RicoShay said:

    I have 4 R3 champs. And I am stuck at 6.3.6 right now. Have not spent on offers or spent on the gifting events. How do people not have multiple R3 champs prior to completing Act6?

    I have 12 5-Star max champs, no 6-Star R2. Will I have a chance against 6.3.6?

    Are you referring to 6.4.6 instead?
    Depends who they are. Easy to say that you've got x amount of champs ranked but who are they, what is their niche, how will they work on 6.3.6. All things you need to consider so I reckon dropping your roster in might give the forums more room to figure out if your roster is capable. If you are is a whole other question
    Roster


    Have White Magneto 6-Star and a R2 rank-up 💎.

    Can do?
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    Liss_Bliss_Liss_Bliss_ Posts: 1,779 ★★★★★
    RicoShay said:

    I have 4 R3 champs. And I am stuck at 6.3.6 right now. Have not spent on offers or spent on the gifting events. How do people not have multiple R3 champs prior to completing Act6?

    A lot of it comes down to planning and skill. If you're not TB yet it's due to the lack thereof. Every lane has specific counters and sometimes it's better to use a 5/65 5* that fits the path instead of your top champs but I'm sure you know that. 6.3.6 is a terrible bottleneck to be stuck at because if your roster isn't developed you're going to want to have unitman come along and take the boss down in gradual amounts. Theres a few ways around the boss if he's the issue you're blocked by. Doom + diablo (most people have ranked doom), hitmonkey, starky, she hulk, killmonger (sp2 indestructible tank) and I always suggest bringing a guardian along for the added block prof. To answer your question in simple it's usually down to skill. Try explore act 4/5 or variants for experience and watch high level gameplay + strategy videos for the best scaling in skills.
    I have the counters the lane I want to take, along with CapIW counters. I just psych myself out all the time I want to attempt it. And I also like to over prepare for each quest. So I spend half the week farming revives and the other half talking myself out of it.

    I have 4 R3 champs. And I am stuck at 6.3.6 right now. Have not spent on offers or spent on the gifting events. How do people not have multiple R3 champs prior to completing Act6?

    Wow! How did you have that lot of R3s before 6.4? I explored 7.1, all the variants that gave 25% T5CCs, etc. a year ago and still didn't get to have my first R3. Had to clear the Abyss to get my 1st.
    I honestly don't know LOL. I haven't even looked at LoL/AoL either.

    I have 4 R3 champs. And I am stuck at 6.3.6 right now. Have not spent on offers or spent on the gifting events. How do people not have multiple R3 champs prior to completing Act6?

    I have 12 5-Star max champs, no 6-Star R2. Will I have a chance against 6.3.6?

    Are you referring to 6.4.6 instead?
    No I meant 6.3.6 CapIW. And honestly my team is 4 5*r5 champs and 1 6*r2 champ. Depending on the champs you have and the path, I don't see why not. I have come close pre "2nd nerf" so if I can, literally anyone can.
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    ReignkingTWReignkingTW Posts: 2,583 ★★★★★
    Rillian said:

    @RicoShay said:

    I have 4 R3 champs. And I am stuck at 6.3.6 right now. Have not spent on offers or spent on the gifting events. How do people not have multiple R3 champs prior to completing Act6?

    I have 12 5-Star max champs, no 6-Star R2. Will I have a chance against 6.3.6?

    Are you referring to 6.4.6 instead?
    Depends who they are. Easy to say that you've got x amount of champs ranked but who are they, what is their niche, how will they work on 6.3.6. All things you need to consider so I reckon dropping your roster in might give the forums more room to figure out if your roster is capable. If you are is a whole other question
    Roster


    Have White Magneto 6-Star and a R2 rank-up 💎.

    Can do?
    I can’t see why you wouldn’t be able to clear act 6 with that.
    Absolutely agree. I had virtually the same roster except I didn't have NF to pair with CMM. I think you have counters for most problem nodes. I got Colossus when I began 6.4 and he was huge for his immunities.
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    Liss_Bliss_Liss_Bliss_ Posts: 1,779 ★★★★★

    RicoShay said:

    I have 4 R3 champs. And I am stuck at 6.3.6 right now. Have not spent on offers or spent on the gifting events. How do people not have multiple R3 champs prior to completing Act6?

    A lot of it comes down to planning and skill. If you're not TB yet it's due to the lack thereof. Every lane has specific counters and sometimes it's better to use a 5/65 5* that fits the path instead of your top champs but I'm sure you know that. 6.3.6 is a terrible bottleneck to be stuck at because if your roster isn't developed you're going to want to have unitman come along and take the boss down in gradual amounts. Theres a few ways around the boss if he's the issue you're blocked by. Doom + diablo (most people have ranked doom), hitmonkey, starky, she hulk, killmonger (sp2 indestructible tank) and I always suggest bringing a guardian along for the added block prof. To answer your question in simple it's usually down to skill. Try explore act 4/5 or variants for experience and watch high level gameplay + strategy videos for the best scaling in skills.
    I have the counters the lane I want to take, along with CapIW counters. I just psych myself out all the time I want to attempt it. And I also like to over prepare for each quest. So I spend half the week farming revives and the other half talking myself out of it.

    I have 4 R3 champs. And I am stuck at 6.3.6 right now. Have not spent on offers or spent on the gifting events. How do people not have multiple R3 champs prior to completing Act6?

    Wow! How did you have that lot of R3s before 6.4? I explored 7.1, all the variants that gave 25% T5CCs, etc. a year ago and still didn't get to have my first R3. Had to clear the Abyss to get my 1st.
    I honestly don't know LOL. I haven't even looked at LoL/AoL either.

    I have 4 R3 champs. And I am stuck at 6.3.6 right now. Have not spent on offers or spent on the gifting events. How do people not have multiple R3 champs prior to completing Act6?

    I have 12 5-Star max champs, no 6-Star R2. Will I have a chance against 6.3.6?

    Are you referring to 6.4.6 instead?
    No I meant 6.3.6 CapIW. And honestly my team is 4 5*r5 champs and 1 6*r2 champ. Depending on the champs you have and the path, I don't see why not. I have come close pre "2nd nerf" so if I can, literally anyone can.
    Don't talk urself out of it. Once u clear 6.4, act 7 is a lot easier and you will also get tb for extra rewards.
    Yeah, that's what I hear. I just need to push it like I did Cavalier. I forced myself to do it one weekend.
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    Luffy_00Luffy_00 Posts: 21
    DNA3000 said:

    Kerem said:

    Luffy_00 said:

    Badass84 said:

    Then you just have to play a longer time. This game is a marathon not a sprint.

    7 years is how old my account is granted i did take breaks and you’re telling me to play longer that’s just not reasonable. It’s essentially just testing your luck with fragments to see if you can become tb
    No matter what if you’ve been playing this game for 7 years and you’re not even a TB, that means you’re doing something wrong!!
    I would say if someone has been playing for seven years and isn't Thronebreaker they are doing something less, not something wrong.

    Thronebreaker is the second highest progress tier in this game. You don't get there just because you've had the game installed on your phone for seven years. You get it by doing things: lots of things. A high activity player that isn't thronebreaker after seven years and wants to be almost certainly has things they could be doing better to achieve it. But someone playing casually for seven years, "taking breaks" during that time, doesn't have to be anywhere in particular in the game.

    Nobody plays a massively multiplayer game that doesn't care about the other players around them. But players of progressional games have to have reasonable expectations. And it is simply not reasonable to want what other players have without doing what they are doing. If you are highly skilled and knowledgeable, you can achieve TB in six months like BitterSteel did. More likely, a highly active player that plays reasonable well and for reasonable amounts of time could do it in eighteen months to two years. That's an entirely reasonable amount of time to achieve the second highest progressional tier in a game that's eight years old.

    When it comes to progression, this is a game of months and years, not days and weeks. If that kind of timeline is unreasonable to someone, then this is probably not the game for them. You *can* get Cavalier in days, you *can* get Thronebreaker in weeks, but only a tiny percentage of players could do that. The game intends much longer time frames to progress. But that time frame will ultimately be different for different players. There's nothing "wrong" about taking a long time to reach TB, or even Cav. What matters is having the right expectation for the level of effort you're putting in.
    i get what you’re saying but it just doesn’t make sense that a person can have the skill to beat act 6 and other content and can only rely on rng on whether or not they get throne breaker.i understand you can beat act 7 to not have to worry about rng but wouldn’t that mean their skill is closer to a paragon player then a newly made tb ? Then it is also weird that they would be getting alot of cavalier rewards from events that likely doesn’t help at all. The requirement just seems like the equivalent of me telling someone they can’t compete in a race even tho they are just as fast as the other competitors and not because they are slow but because they were poor and wasn’t lucky enough to be born in a well off family that could afford some expensive shoes instead of the beat up ones they have. it’s not like i’m saying to make the fights easier. it just doesn’t make sense that there are cavalier players who are much better than me don’t have tb because they were unlucky or didn’t have money to spend which was the case for me .
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    Luffy_00 said:

    i get what you’re saying but it just doesn’t make sense that a person can have the skill to beat act 6 and other content and can only rely on rng on whether or not they get throne breaker.i understand you can beat act 7 to not have to worry about rng but wouldn’t that mean their skill is closer to a paragon player then a newly made tb ? Then it is also weird that they would be getting alot of cavalier rewards from events that likely doesn’t help at all. The requirement just seems like the equivalent of me telling someone they can’t compete in a race even tho they are just as fast as the other competitors and not because they are slow but because they were poor and wasn’t lucky enough to be born in a well off family that could afford some expensive shoes instead of the beat up ones they have.

    In a race, the guy that gets the medal is not the most skillful runner. It is the one that crosses the finish line first. To become Thronebreaker you need to cross two finish lines. You need to cross the Act 6.4 finish line, and you need to cross the 6*R3 finish line.

    Also, do you have any idea how expensive it is to compete in track and field? Shoes are the least of your worries. Traveling to the venue is far more expensive. That's why even professional Chess players need sponsors. They could never afford to travel to the competitions on their winnings alone, and Chess literally requires no more equipment to play at a competitive level than a pencil.

    You could be the greatest Chess player that ever lived. But the top ranked Chess players aren't just the most skilled people on Earth in Chess. They are also the ones that spend enough money to travel to international competitions. If you don't spend to attend, no one will ever know how skilled you are (at least at Classical Chess due to the limitations involved in playing Classical Chess online).

    You do not need to spend a dime to become Thronebreaker (or Paragon). Spending is helpful, and it would be extremely difficult to have become TB or Paragon when those titles originally released without spending. But spending is not mandatory, and luck is not mandatory. Both are only necessary for players who are impatient or who are racing other players. And if you're racing other players, you have to expect to do what they are doing to stay in the race.
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    TitoBandito187TitoBandito187 Posts: 2,072 ★★★★
    edited September 2022

    RicoShay said:

    I have 4 R3 champs. And I am stuck at 6.3.6 right now. Have not spent on offers or spent on the gifting events. How do people not have multiple R3 champs prior to completing Act6?

    A lot of it comes down to planning and skill. If you're not TB yet it's due to the lack thereof. Every lane has specific counters and sometimes it's better to use a 5/65 5* that fits the path instead of your top champs but I'm sure you know that. 6.3.6 is a terrible bottleneck to be stuck at because if your roster isn't developed you're going to want to have unitman come along and take the boss down in gradual amounts. Theres a few ways around the boss if he's the issue you're blocked by. Doom + diablo (most people have ranked doom), hitmonkey, starky, she hulk, killmonger (sp2 indestructible tank) and I always suggest bringing a guardian along for the added block prof. To answer your question in simple it's usually down to skill. Try explore act 4/5 or variants for experience and watch high level gameplay + strategy videos for the best scaling in skills.
    I have the counters the lane I want to take, along with CapIW counters. I just psych myself out all the time I want to attempt it. And I also like to over prepare for each quest. So I spend half the week farming revives and the other half talking myself out of it.

    I have 4 R3 champs. And I am stuck at 6.3.6 right now. Have not spent on offers or spent on the gifting events. How do people not have multiple R3 champs prior to completing Act6?

    Wow! How did you have that lot of R3s before 6.4? I explored 7.1, all the variants that gave 25% T5CCs, etc. a year ago and still didn't get to have my first R3. Had to clear the Abyss to get my 1st.
    I honestly don't know LOL. I haven't even looked at LoL/AoL either.

    I have 4 R3 champs. And I am stuck at 6.3.6 right now. Have not spent on offers or spent on the gifting events. How do people not have multiple R3 champs prior to completing Act6?

    I have 12 5-Star max champs, no 6-Star R2. Will I have a chance against 6.3.6?

    Are you referring to 6.4.6 instead?
    No I meant 6.3.6 CapIW. And honestly my team is 4 5*r5 champs and 1 6*r2 champ. Depending on the champs you have and the path, I don't see why not. I have come close pre "2nd nerf" so if I can, literally anyone can.
    Don't talk urself out of it. Once u clear 6.4, act 7 is a lot easier and you will also get tb for extra rewards.
    Yeah, that's what I hear. I just need to push it like I did Cavalier. I forced myself to do it one weekend.
    Get on reddit and check where to farm. Farming resources efficiently (i.e. knowing when your "go" date is going to be to tackle the hard content) can be a huge step for completing tough content, especially if your roster isn't the beefiest.

    Is it fun - no.

    Is it helpful - absolutely.

    Will it save you money and keep you FTP - yes sir.

    Can it be the difference between getting stuck or getting through a tough piece of content - most likely (unless you planned your team poorly and just hit a roadblock that can't handle certain fights without a proper counter).

    You would be surprised how many resources you can acquire in 13 days (revives, energy refills and potions - those typically only last up to 14 days in overflow) if you focus strictly on maximizing your daily energy on that and leave the other stuff alone. Plus, if you do it right, you will eventually find yourself in constant overflow so you can blow through new monthly events and then start farming the rest of the time for your next major hurdle. Then, rinse and repeat.

    It took me years before I realized this and wish someone would have told me sooner.
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    BowTieJohnBowTieJohn Posts: 2,361 ★★★★
    I'm Cavalier been playing for a number of years and the only thing holding me back from Thronebreaker is completing Act 6. Honestly having trouble with the Life Cycle node and I don't have a lot of time to practice with my champions, but once I get more time practicing I know I will get through 6.2.1 and then soon that big day when I take on and defeat the Grandmaster. For now patiently working and learning from others.
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    I'm Cavalier been playing for a number of years and the only thing holding me back from Thronebreaker is completing Act 6. Honestly having trouble with the Life Cycle node and I don't have a lot of time to practice with my champions, but once I get more time practicing I know I will get through 6.2.1 and then soon that big day when I take on and defeat the Grandmaster. For now patiently working and learning from others.

    On the one hand, the rewards for Thronebreaker are good. On the other hand, Thronebreaker isn't going anywhere. As far as I can tell, it is right there where I left it. There's no reason to rush.

    Rushing through a video game is like rushing through your vacation. There's no reward for reaching the end faster than everyone else.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,296 ★★★★★
    It's easier now to do than before. Like most things, it takes research and planning to do without so much frustration. Especially the GM.
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