Rhintah vs S2099 bug?

So Rhintahs ability says if his neutralise prevents a buff then he gets a power gain buff however this is still triggering vs Spidy 2099.

Spidy 2099 is immune to buffs so why is Rhintah getting the power gain buff.

Am I missing something or is this interaction not working properly?

Comments

Terra

It's working properly, sadly.
Similar to how champions like Red Guardian get screwed over vs Wiccan or BWCV

Kasnow1

Good question. I’dlike to understand. Same thing with wiccan. Buff immunes take incineration.

Malreck04

It's bull, but unfortunately it's intended bull

AverageDesi

Cause ability accuracy preceeds immunity

JRAWES

I've put in a ticket to support. Doesn't look like this is working as intended. Will update once I hear more.

AmaadAkira

It's ridiculous. Not sure why Kabam is hellbent on making the mystic class counter science champs.

Terra

It's ridiculous. Not sure why Kabam is hellbent on making the mystic class counter science champs.

Torch ring a bell?

AmaadAkira

It's ridiculous. Not sure why Kabam is hellbent on making the mystic class counter science champs.
Torch ring a bell?

Mystic is SUPPOSED to be weak against science champs. And even then, Torch rinses ALL the neutralize champs, even Mojo and Doom.

Tech also has a Torch in Nimrod, but you don't see a bunch of mutants being built around countering Tech champs.

Noob_Master69

I've put in a ticket to support. Doesn't look like this is working as intended. Will update once I hear more.

There has been another thread about this a while back, sadly it IS intended, confirmed by Kabam.

It's weird but it basically comes down to the Neutralize kicking in before the immunity kicks in. In a way it prevents the immunity from triggering

AverageDesi

Cause ability accuracy preceeds immunity

It's ridiculous. Not sure why Kabam is hellbent on making the mystic class counter science champs.

It isn't really mystic countering science. Just game interacting the way it does. Skill counters science but kingpin is terrible for void. Mystic counters cosmic but many mysitcs are bad against galan. Cosmic counters tech but armour break is useless against nimrod

AmaadAkira

Cause ability accuracy preceeds immunity
It's ridiculous. Not sure why Kabam is hellbent on making the mystic class counter science champs.
It isn't really mystic countering science. Just game interacting the way it does. Skill counters science but kingpin is terrible for void. Mystic counters cosmic but many mysitcs are bad against galan. Cosmic counters tech but armour break is useless against nimrod

It IS mystic countering science.

Your Void countering Kingpin argument is a bad argument as self-applying debuffs is not a commonality amongst the skill class, and punishing debuffs is not a commonality amongst the science class. These are 2 unique abilities interacting with each other that are not predefined by their class stereotypes.

Mystics easily counter Galan via easier access to specials not just by neutralizing his buffs.

Cosmics counter Nimrod, except two (Knull & Cull), though could still take the fight with Cull, it'll just take longer.

Mystics are generally defined as preventing/removing buffs. Science champs are generally defined as having very little to no buffs. If a no-buff champion is countered by a champion that prevents buffs, what is the use of a no-buff champion? Why not have a champion like Mr. Negative who benefits from buffs but can't be nullified? The only reason having a purely buff immune champ is useful currently is to counter Mojo (Mr. Negative also does this fight more efficiently than most of them) and to counter mystic dispersion (Mr. Negative ALSO counters mystic dispersion).

Makes a whole set of champs useless and they even realized it by creating Quick Silver who benefits from buffs but doesn't trigger dexterity.

AverageDesi

Cause ability accuracy preceeds immunity
It's ridiculous. Not sure why Kabam is hellbent on making the mystic class counter science champs.
It isn't really mystic countering science. Just game interacting the way it does. Skill counters science but kingpin is terrible for void. Mystic counters cosmic but many mysitcs are bad against galan. Cosmic counters tech but armour break is useless against nimrod
It IS mystic countering science.

Your Void countering Kingpin argument is a bad argument as self-applying debuffs is not a commonality amongst the skill class, and punishing debuffs is not a commonality amongst the science class. These are 2 unique abilities interacting with each other that are not predefined by their class stereotypes.

Mystics easily counter Galan via easier access to specials not just by neutralizing his buffs.

Cosmics counter Nimrod, except two (Knull & Cull), though could still take the fight with Cull, it'll just take longer.

Mystics are generally defined as preventing/removing buffs. Science champs are generally defined as having very little to no buffs. If a no-buff champion is countered by a champion that prevents buffs, what is the use of a no-buff champion? Why not have a champion like Mr. Negative who benefits from buffs but can't be nullified? The only reason having a purely buff immune champ is useful currently is to counter Mojo (Mr. Negative also does this fight more efficiently than most of them) and to counter mystic dispersion (Mr. Negative ALSO counters mystic dispersion).

Makes a whole set of champs useless and they even realized it by creating Quick Silver who benefits from buffs but doesn't trigger dexterity.

While there is a broad idea of let this class be known for this, it isn't a strict rule at all. Archangel while mutant relies on debuffs and has weak specials while the mutant class is big on specials which is why techs have power drain in general.

And then you have sauron who is immune to power drain making a mockery of this tech class attribute.

And knull who has basically no buffs unlike the general cosmic class. These

AmaadAkira

Cause ability accuracy preceeds immunity
It's ridiculous. Not sure why Kabam is hellbent on making the mystic class counter science champs.
It isn't really mystic countering science. Just game interacting the way it does. Skill counters science but kingpin is terrible for void. Mystic counters cosmic but many mysitcs are bad against galan. Cosmic counters tech but armour break is useless against nimrod
It IS mystic countering science.

Your Void countering Kingpin argument is a bad argument as self-applying debuffs is not a commonality amongst the skill class, and punishing debuffs is not a commonality amongst the science class. These are 2 unique abilities interacting with each other that are not predefined by their class stereotypes.

Mystics easily counter Galan via easier access to specials not just by neutralizing his buffs.

Cosmics counter Nimrod, except two (Knull & Cull), though could still take the fight with Cull, it'll just take longer.

Mystics are generally defined as preventing/removing buffs. Science champs are generally defined as having very little to no buffs. If a no-buff champion is countered by a champion that prevents buffs, what is the use of a no-buff champion? Why not have a champion like Mr. Negative who benefits from buffs but can't be nullified? The only reason having a purely buff immune champ is useful currently is to counter Mojo (Mr. Negative also does this fight more efficiently than most of them) and to counter mystic dispersion (Mr. Negative ALSO counters mystic dispersion).

Makes a whole set of champs useless and they even realized it by creating Quick Silver who benefits from buffs but doesn't trigger dexterity.
While there is a broad idea of let this class be known for this, it isn't a strict rule at all. Archangel while mutant relies on debuffs and has weak specials while the mutant class is big on specials which is why techs have power drain in general.

And then you have sauron who is immune to power drain making a mockery of this tech class attribute.

And knull who has basically no buffs unlike the general cosmic class. These

Yes, but there's a difference when creating a set stereotype and countering it with another. Currently, no buff champions have 0 place in the game. They don't benefit from nodes that give you buffs, they don't bypass neutralize. They exist solely to counter mystic dispersion, but there are champions that gain buffs in the science class that ALSO counter mystic dispersion.

Being the only champs to counter neutralize would have been a good offset for that, as champions that can't be nullified cannot counter neutralize as they still gain buffs to begin with.

CoatHang3r

Neutralize needs to be codified “while neutralized failing to trigger a buff…”

AverageDesi

Neutralize needs to be codified “while neutralized failing to trigger a buff…”

Why? It works fine now no?

CoatHang3r

Neutralize needs to be codified “while neutralized failing to trigger a buff…”
Why? It works fine now no?

It works as intended but it is not easily understood or intuitive as to what happens with immunities.

AverageDesi

Neutralize needs to be codified “while neutralized failing to trigger a buff…”
Why? It works fine now no?
It works as intended but it is not easily understood or intuitive as to what happens with immunities.

I guess it's because players view immunities as an a supreme veto powered mechanic instead of being just another mechanic in the large pool of mechanics which may or may not be behind others

CoatHang3r

Neutralize needs to be codified “while neutralized failing to trigger a buff…”
Why? It works fine now no?
It works as intended but it is not easily understood or intuitive as to what happens with immunities.
I guess it's because players view immunities as an a supreme veto powered mechanic instead of being just another mechanic in the large pool of mechanics which may or may not be behind others

Sounds like a case of always beating never when it should be the other way around, in most cases per the game team. This popped up when Glancing finally stopped Corvus’ crits.

There is no chance event when it comes to an immunity but neutralize hangs it’s hat on the description of chance.

AverageDesi

Neutralize needs to be codified “while neutralized failing to trigger a buff…”
Why? It works fine now no?
It works as intended but it is not easily understood or intuitive as to what happens with immunities.
I guess it's because players view immunities as an a supreme veto powered mechanic instead of being just another mechanic in the large pool of mechanics which may or may not be behind others
Sounds like a case of always beating never when it should be the other way around, in most cases per the game team. This popped up when Glancing finally stopped Corvus’ crits.

There is no chance event when it comes to an immunity but neutralize hangs it’s hat on the description of chance.

I think of this another way. Take a scenario where Nick is fighting Colossus. Nick has his ability accuracy reduced by 100%. If he were to land a medium on Colossus, would the immunity call-out be there? Did Colossus not get a bleed because he was immune or because there would be no bleed to be immune to in the first place?

JRAWES

But thats the point, if you has Carnage vs Thing and somehow Thing's ability accuracy was reduced 200%. No matter what, he shouldn't receive a bleed or amour break, thus preventing carnage getting the power gain.

Also, support have said "Since Spider-Man 2099 cannot gain Buffs, Rintrah's also does not have any Buffs to Neutralize; therefore should not Power Gain as per Rintrah's Signature Ability description. If we based on these details, this could be a potential bug."